If the Celts are going to make a blockbuster...

[Who]

Theis is not a starting calibre center

first he is skinny for a center.  Sabonis, Gasol, Embiid push him around , like its nothing

I am shocked that Theis has been as effective as he has been this year as the starting center. Just a few years ago he would have been an absolute trainwreck due to his lack of physical toughness.

But now guys like Theis and Richaun Holmes are getting by as starting centers. They are not good starting centers but they have been serviceable.

The league is a changin' ....



Like I said, I am shocked by it. That they have been able to get by as well as they have done with such a lightweight (physically) center who is not only hugely undersized in height but also in muscle and lacks a dynamic enough offensive game to make up for it.

But Theis has been helping more than he has been hurting on defense on Celtics. It is working. Working surprisingly (to me) well.

[Birdman]

If we had a legit Center, we be best team in East for sure..also, as we all know, bench is awful...Timelord, Semi,Carsen, Grant, , Romeo are not the answer..trade all 5 be nice for help 😁

[gouki88]

If we had a legit Center, we be best team in East for sure..also, as we all know, bench is awful...Timelord, Carsen, Grant, , Romeo are not the answer..trade all 5 be nice for help 😁

Marcus Smart and Enes Kanter are two high-level bench players. Smart is one of the best in the league

[Fierce1]

The Celts dominated the Pacers in the playoffs last season.
Celts swept them in the 1st round.

What changed this season?

Last season Sabonis and Turner were not a problem when the Celts still had Horford.

Horford is slow and is not a leaper.
But he has the bulk to prevent opposing bigs from bullying him inside the paint.

Theis, as good as he's playing this season, has no length and has no bulk.
That's why taller and bigger bigs are playing like All-Stars every time they face the Celts.

Hard to believe that some Celtic fans here would not want to trade Poirier and a draft pick for Poeltl.

Poeltl will easily beat out Kanter in the rotation because of Kanter's poor defense.

[Fierce1]

If we had a legit Center, we be best team in East for sure..also, as we all know, bench is awful...Timelord, Carsen, Grant, , Romeo are not the answer..trade all 5 be nice for help 😁

Marcus Smart and Enes Kanter are two high-level bench players. Smart is one of the best in the league

Smart is a starter forced to become a bench player because the Celts have so many great mid-sized players.

Is Smart the answer if the Celts are lacking bench scoring?

Smart is a defensive player, not a scorer.

Kanter will give you 2 points and he will return the 2 points by allowing the opposing team to score against him.

[jambr380]

I am not going to comment on whether or not we need an upgrade at the Center position and Fierce1 can hammer home a point more than anybody I've ever seen, but he is absolutely right that Sabonis totally dominated us last night. Sabonis is known as a low-post player, but he is easily able to get to his spots from the perimeter. He is also extremely unselfish and has fantastic decision making abilities. He isn't just a DHO or PNR big; a team can literally run their offense through him in the post. And since he is so good in the post, you often have to double team him which leaves the perimeter wide open.

I have been critical of Sabonis before, but he was probably the main reason we lost last night. It is one thing when guys are getting lucky from the outside or getting too many FTs, but when a player continues to dominate you possession after possession, you just have to tip your cap.

[Surferdad]

If we had a legit Center, we be best team in East for sure..also, as we all know, bench is awful...Timelord, Carsen, Grant, , Romeo are not the answer..trade all 5 be nice for help 😁

Marcus Smart and Enes Kanter are two high-level bench players. Smart is one of the best in the league

Smart is a starter forced to become a bench player because the Celts have so many great mid-sized players.

Is Smart the answer if the Celts are lacking bench scoring?

Smart is a defensive player, not a scorer.

Kanter will give you 2 points and he will return the 2 points by allowing the opposing team to score against him.

Everything already stated about our center weakness is true, in fact, RWIII would have been a huge help in the Indy game, BUT I thought a big reason for the loss was the bench.  We missed Smart (and RWIII).  Carsen and Grant are rookies who are playing out of necessity.  Wanamaker blows hot-and-cold.  He also has become more bold than warranted in his usage.  He should NOT be trying to do so much, he's just not that talented.  Semi is a good defender but is mostly a liability in scoring.

As a fan base, we've discussed blockbuster trades (typically ones that have either Hayward or Smart going out) but no one has come up with anything reasonable or even likely.  I would favor a smaller move to shore up players 8 and 9, assuming Smart and Kanter represent players 6 and 7.

[gouki88]

If we had a legit Center, we be best team in East for sure..also, as we all know, bench is awful...Timelord, Carsen, Grant, , Romeo are not the answer..trade all 5 be nice for help 😁

Marcus Smart and Enes Kanter are two high-level bench players. Smart is one of the best in the league

Smart is a starter forced to become a bench player because the Celts have so many great mid-sized players.

Is Smart the answer if the Celts are lacking bench scoring?

Smart is a defensive player, not a scorer.

Kanter will give you 2 points and he will return the 2 points by allowing the opposing team to score against him.

Aaaaand here we go again. Bench scoring isn't really a problem when we have 4 guys at 18+ when fully healthy. Smart provides playmaking and elite defence, which is what our bench needs.

Again, you're simply wrong about Kanter. Nick has already refuted that line of thinking:

Kanter's defensive rating is 100.8, which is, by the way, 8.2 points lower than Robert Williams defensive rating. The team also allows exactly 105 points per 48 minutes whether Kanter is on the court or off(Kanter's on/off court offensive #s are 117/110. Also, Kanter's top 2 five man groupings by minutes played:

Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Kanter and
Wanamaker, Edwards, Tatum, Ojeleye, Kanter

have excellent defensive numbers. That's also true for the 4th, 5th and 6th most often used Kanter groupings.

What I think this tells us is that:

1. Stevens has already figured out who to put with Kanter when he is on the floor and when in the game to use him, specifically, when he can play with 4 starters or when he is part of a unit playing the other team's bench.

2. This use of Kanter is working and his defesive limitations aren't killing the team.

3. Kanter is probably playing way better overall team defense than some are giving him credit for.

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612738/players-traditional/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://www.82games.com/1920/19BOS16.HTM

[Fafnir]

Our problem against Indy was poor offensive stretches where we gave up a ton of transition points and fouls. The bad turnovers and not getting back as well as they needed to sunk us.

[Sophomore]

The Celts dominated the Pacers in the playoffs last season.
Celts swept them in the 1st round.

What changed this season?

Last season Sabonis and Turner were not a problem when the Celts still had Horford.

Horford is slow and is not a leaper.
But he has the bulk to prevent opposing bigs from bullying him inside the paint.

Theis, as good as he's playing this season, has no length and has no bulk.
That's why taller and bigger bigs are playing like All-Stars every time they face the Celts.

Hard to believe that some Celtic fans here would not want to trade Poirier and a draft pick for Poeltl.

Poeltl will easily beat out Kanter in the rotation because of Kanter's poor defense.

I'll agree it would be great to have Horford. Sabonis had a great game. But if you're asking what's different from last year, and you're trying to really understand how the game went, how do you look past Malcolm Brogdon? He wasn't on their team last year, he's probably going to be an all-star, and he absolutely torched our perimeter defense last night - 29 points on 10 shots(!!), 8 assists to only 1 turnover. I mean, I get it. Sabonis had a very, very good game. But to call him out as the only difference last year doesn't fly. Also last night: Aaron Holiday absolutely went off, shooting 8-9. Other players not on the Pacers last year - Justin Holiday, Jeremy Lamb, TJ Warren, all of whom had very good games.

If you want to say we'd be better with a stout interior defender, I think you're arguing against nobody. Everybody already agrees with that. If you're saying that's the reason we lost last night, I am not with you until you account for our poor wing play and missing players. I don't think we lose if  (1) Tatum doesn't have a really, really bad game - those turnovers at the start of the 4th were terrible, and his shooting stunk; (2) we have Marcus available, or even w/out Marcus, we still have Hayward and Brown for the stretch. I think if any of those things change the strengths of this team outweigh its limitations and we win a game on the Pacers' floor despite really really good games from the Pacers' main players.

It's always true that if you take a good team and upgrade them at their weakest spot, they'll be better. I just don't think that *last night* you can lay the blame entirely on the bigs. Tatum was a big reason we lost, and so was the lack of wing depth on a night we were missing regular players. This team at full strength was easily good enough to win last night, Sabonis or no Sabonis.

Edit: and I forgot - we also didn't have R Williams!

[Fierce1]

If we had a legit Center, we be best team in East for sure..also, as we all know, bench is awful...Timelord, Carsen, Grant, , Romeo are not the answer..trade all 5 be nice for help 😁

Marcus Smart and Enes Kanter are two high-level bench players. Smart is one of the best in the league

Smart is a starter forced to become a bench player because the Celts have so many great mid-sized players.

Is Smart the answer if the Celts are lacking bench scoring?

Smart is a defensive player, not a scorer.

Kanter will give you 2 points and he will return the 2 points by allowing the opposing team to score against him.

Aaaaand here we go again. Bench scoring isn't really a problem when we have 4 guys at 18+ when fully healthy. Smart provides playmaking and elite defence, which is what our bench needs.

Again, you're simply wrong about Kanter. Nick has already refuted that line of thinking:

Kanter's defensive rating is 100.8, which is, by the way, 8.2 points lower than Robert Williams defensive rating. The team also allows exactly 105 points per 48 minutes whether Kanter is on the court or off(Kanter's on/off court offensive #s are 117/110. Also, Kanter's top 2 five man groupings by minutes played:

Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Kanter and
Wanamaker, Edwards, Tatum, Ojeleye, Kanter

have excellent defensive numbers. That's also true for the 4th, 5th and 6th most often used Kanter groupings.

What I think this tells us is that:

1. Stevens has already figured out who to put with Kanter when he is on the floor and when in the game to use him, specifically, when he can play with 4 starters or when he is part of a unit playing the other team's bench.

2. This use of Kanter is working and his defesive limitations aren't killing the team.

3. Kanter is probably playing way better overall team defense than some are giving him credit for.

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612738/players-traditional/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://www.82games.com/1920/19BOS16.HTM

nick also said Jaylen couldn't be traded for 6 months, right?

Here's the thing, if I'm wrong about Kanter then why didn't Brad Stevens use Kanter more against the Pacers?

The Pacers were big, really big, so why did Brad opt to give more playing time to a 6-8 Center than a 6-10 Kanter?

Theis got 27 minutes.

Kanter got 14 minutes.

If Kanter is as good as you and nick say, why can't he average at least 20 minutes per game?

Kanter is only averaging 15.8 minutes per game with Boston.
That's the lowest minutes per game for Kanter since 2012-13.

Is Brad Stevens really that stupid to not give Kanter more playing time if Kanter is as good as some think?

[slamtheking]

The Celts dominated the Pacers in the playoffs last season.
Celts swept them in the 1st round.

What changed this season?

Last season Sabonis and Turner were not a problem when the Celts still had Horford.

Horford is slow and is not a leaper.
But he has the bulk to prevent opposing bigs from bullying him inside the paint.

Theis, as good as he's playing this season, has no length and has no bulk.
That's why taller and bigger bigs are playing like All-Stars every time they face the Celts.

Hard to believe that some Celtic fans here would not want to trade Poirier and a draft pick for Poeltl.

Poeltl will easily beat out Kanter in the rotation because of Kanter's poor defense.

I'll agree it would be great to have Horford. Sabonis had a great game. But if you're asking what's different from last year, and you're trying to really understand how the game went, how do you look past Malcolm Brogdon? He wasn't on their team last year, he's probably going to be an all-star, and he absolutely torched our perimeter defense last night - 29 points on 10 shots(!!), 8 assists to only 1 turnover. I mean, I get it. Sabonis had a very, very good game. But to call him out as the only difference last year doesn't fly. Also last night: Aaron Holiday absolutely went off, shooting 8-9. Other players not on the Pacers last year - Justin Holiday, Jeremy Lamb, TJ Warren, all of whom had very good games.

If you want to say we'd be better with a stout interior defender, I think you're arguing against nobody. Everybody already agrees with that. If you're saying that's the reason we lost last night, I am not with you until you account for our poor wing play and missing players. I don't think we lose if  (1) Tatum doesn't have a really, really bad game - those turnovers at the start of the 4th were terrible, and his shooting stunk; (2) we have Marcus available, or even w/out Marcus, we still have Hayward and Brown for the stretch. I think if any of those things change the strengths of this team outweigh its limitations and we win a game on the Pacers' floor despite really really good games from the Pacers' main players.

It's always true that if you take a good team and upgrade them at their weakest spot, they'll be better. I just don't think that *last night* you can lay the blame entirely on the bigs. Tatum was a big reason we lost, and so was the lack of wing depth on a night we were missing regular players. This team at full strength was easily good enough to win last night, Sabonis or no Sabonis.

Edit: and I forgot - we also didn't have R Williams!

and to add, Poeltl wouldn't have improved things one bit.  we could use an upgrade at center.  Poeltl ain't it.

[Fierce1]

The Celts dominated the Pacers in the playoffs last season.
Celts swept them in the 1st round.

What changed this season?

Last season Sabonis and Turner were not a problem when the Celts still had Horford.

Horford is slow and is not a leaper.
But he has the bulk to prevent opposing bigs from bullying him inside the paint.

Theis, as good as he's playing this season, has no length and has no bulk.
That's why taller and bigger bigs are playing like All-Stars every time they face the Celts.

Hard to believe that some Celtic fans here would not want to trade Poirier and a draft pick for Poeltl.

Poeltl will easily beat out Kanter in the rotation because of Kanter's poor defense.

I'll agree it would be great to have Horford. Sabonis had a great game. But if you're asking what's different from last year, and you're trying to really understand how the game went, how do you look past Malcolm Brogdon? He wasn't on their team last year, he's probably going to be an all-star, and he absolutely torched our perimeter defense last night - 29 points on 10 shots(!!), 8 assists to only 1 turnover. I mean, I get it. Sabonis had a very, very good game. But to call him out as the only difference last year doesn't fly. Also last night: Aaron Holiday absolutely went off, shooting 8-9. Other players not on the Pacers last year - Justin Holiday, Jeremy Lamb, TJ Warren, all of whom had very good games.

If you want to say we'd be better with a stout interior defender, I think you're arguing against nobody. Everybody already agrees with that. If you're saying that's the reason we lost last night, I am not with you until you account for our poor wing play and missing players. I don't think we lose if  (1) Tatum doesn't have a really, really bad game - those turnovers at the start of the 4th were terrible, and his shooting stunk; (2) we have Marcus available, or even w/out Marcus, we still have Hayward and Brown for the stretch. I think if any of those things change the strengths of this team outweigh its limitations and we win a game on the Pacers' floor despite really really good games from the Pacers' main players.

It's always true that if you take a good team and upgrade them at their weakest spot, they'll be better. I just don't think that *last night* you can lay the blame entirely on the bigs. Tatum was a big reason we lost, and so was the lack of wing depth on a night we were missing regular players. This team at full strength was easily good enough to win last night, Sabonis or no Sabonis.

Edit: and I forgot - we also didn't have R Williams!

It's not just last night.

How about the 1st game against Philly when Toby Harris and Embiid combined for 28 rebounds.

Or against Brooklyn, in Brooklyn, when Jordan and Allen combined for 22 points and 22 rebounds.

Even the Cavs got 18 offensive rebounds against the Celts.

It's very clear the Celts need to upgrade the Center position.
And I'm not basing it only on the game against Indy.

[Fierce1]

The Celts dominated the Pacers in the playoffs last season.
Celts swept them in the 1st round.

What changed this season?

Last season Sabonis and Turner were not a problem when the Celts still had Horford.

Horford is slow and is not a leaper.
But he has the bulk to prevent opposing bigs from bullying him inside the paint.

Theis, as good as he's playing this season, has no length and has no bulk.
That's why taller and bigger bigs are playing like All-Stars every time they face the Celts.

Hard to believe that some Celtic fans here would not want to trade Poirier and a draft pick for Poeltl.

Poeltl will easily beat out Kanter in the rotation because of Kanter's poor defense.

I'll agree it would be great to have Horford. Sabonis had a great game. But if you're asking what's different from last year, and you're trying to really understand how the game went, how do you look past Malcolm Brogdon? He wasn't on their team last year, he's probably going to be an all-star, and he absolutely torched our perimeter defense last night - 29 points on 10 shots(!!), 8 assists to only 1 turnover. I mean, I get it. Sabonis had a very, very good game. But to call him out as the only difference last year doesn't fly. Also last night: Aaron Holiday absolutely went off, shooting 8-9. Other players not on the Pacers last year - Justin Holiday, Jeremy Lamb, TJ Warren, all of whom had very good games.

If you want to say we'd be better with a stout interior defender, I think you're arguing against nobody. Everybody already agrees with that. If you're saying that's the reason we lost last night, I am not with you until you account for our poor wing play and missing players. I don't think we lose if  (1) Tatum doesn't have a really, really bad game - those turnovers at the start of the 4th were terrible, and his shooting stunk; (2) we have Marcus available, or even w/out Marcus, we still have Hayward and Brown for the stretch. I think if any of those things change the strengths of this team outweigh its limitations and we win a game on the Pacers' floor despite really really good games from the Pacers' main players.

It's always true that if you take a good team and upgrade them at their weakest spot, they'll be better. I just don't think that *last night* you can lay the blame entirely on the bigs. Tatum was a big reason we lost, and so was the lack of wing depth on a night we were missing regular players. This team at full strength was easily good enough to win last night, Sabonis or no Sabonis.

Edit: and I forgot - we also didn't have R Williams!

and to add, Poeltl wouldn't have improved things one bit.  we could use an upgrade at center.  Poeltl ain't it.

Going from Poirier to Poeltl is not a slight upgrade?

If you guys don't want Poeltl then there are others out there.

One thing's for sure, the Celts need to upgrade the Center position.

I understand that some here don't think a trade is necessary.

My money is on Ainge making a trade on or before the trade deadline.

[Fafnir]

Its really hard to take your obsession with defensive rebounding seriously when you thought the Warriors of the past 5 years were proficient at it.

You are hyper-focused on it, yet cannot recognize its absence it when its been slapping you in the face FOR FIVE YEARS.