J. Okafor - Merged Thread

[SHAQATTACK]

Oakfor seems to had a minor awakening from listening to him speak in interviews.. Enbiid has come back with a vengence and basically claimed the big man throne and leadership role on that team. .  I suspect ,  Oakfor has started to mature and reflect on his not so great start in the NBA , seeing others move on with success .

I THINK,  NOT UNLIKE Turner and even Irving ....Oakfor wants a new place to BEGIN over. 

I think Embiids sucess has kinda woke Oakfor up ,  he feels left behind.

[Androslav]

That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.

Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.   

I'm also not saying Sixers management hasn't mishandled this.  Colangelo is a double talking snake.  Coach Brown though is a player development coach with a defensive focus.  Okafor should have shown some improvement under him.

His 1 game this year he had more shots from 10-16 feet than any other distance and he hit those at 66.6%. 

This notion that Okafor can't hit a shot outside of the paint is just nonsense.  He has been fairly respectable from 10-16 feet in his career, especially for a young big man.  He has decent touch from the foul line. 

Okafor doesn't have 3 point range, but he can hit an open jumper and has throughout his career.

Not really. for career he is:

10-16 feet - 24/88 - .272%
16 feet-3pt - 84/229 - .367%

He is skilled, he has the touch, but not a jumper.

[Moranis]

That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.

Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.   

I'm also not saying Sixers management hasn't mishandled this.  Colangelo is a double talking snake.  Coach Brown though is a player development coach with a defensive focus.  Okafor should have shown some improvement under him.

His 1 game this year he had more shots from 10-16 feet than any other distance and he hit those at 66.6%. 

This notion that Okafor can't hit a shot outside of the paint is just nonsense.  He has been fairly respectable from 10-16 feet in his career, especially for a young big man.  He has decent touch from the foul line. 

Okafor doesn't have 3 point range, but he can hit an open jumper and has throughout his career.

Not really. for career he is:

10-16 feet - 24/88 - .272%
16 feet-3pt - 84/229 - .367%

He is skilled, he has the touch, but not a jumper.

Those numbers can't be right.  There is no way Okafor has attempted 229 shots from 16 feet to the 3 point line.  Below is the link to bball-ref which had him shooting 35.2% as a rookie from 10-16 which he upped to 38.2% in his second year (he was under 27.5% from 16 feet to 3).  Of the Celtics in the regular rotation this year only Tatum, Baynes, Horford, and Rozier have a better shooting percentage from 10-16 feet than Okafor had in either of his two seasons. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoja01.html

[PaulAllen]

I think DA would have made a move much sooner but is reluctant due to Theis's progression..
Still if he is bought out you cant pass on him..

[saltlover]

That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.

Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.   

I'm also not saying Sixers management hasn't mishandled this.  Colangelo is a double talking snake.  Coach Brown though is a player development coach with a defensive focus.  Okafor should have shown some improvement under him.

His 1 game this year he had more shots from 10-16 feet than any other distance and he hit those at 66.6%. 

This notion that Okafor can't hit a shot outside of the paint is just nonsense.  He has been fairly respectable from 10-16 feet in his career, especially for a young big man.  He has decent touch from the foul line. 

Okafor doesn't have 3 point range, but he can hit an open jumper and has throughout his career.

Not really. for career he is:

10-16 feet - 24/88 - .272%
16 feet-3pt - 84/229 - .367%

He is skilled, he has the touch, but not a jumper.

Those numbers can't be right.  There is no way Okafor has attempted 229 shots from 16 feet to the 3 point line.  Below is the link to bball-ref which had him shooting 35.2% as a rookie from 10-16 which he upped to 38.2% in his second year (he was under 27.5% from 16 feet to 3).  Of the Celtics in the regular rotation this year only Tatum, Baynes, Horford, and Rozier have a better shooting percentage from 10-16 feet than Okafor had in either of his two seasons. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoja01.html

According to basketball reference, Okafor has taken 1259 shots in his career, and 18.2% of those have been from 10-16 ft.  That calculates as 229 shots.  I think Androslav’s eyes slid over a column from the table.

That said, on mid-range shots (10-16 ft), of which he has taken a substantial number, he’s shooting a very poor 36.7%.

[Big333223]

There are rumor reports that the C's are interested in Okafor.

https://sports.yahoo.com/rumor-celtics-interested-jahlil-okafor-191709345.html

[smokeablount]

So I guess Philly is looking for a 2nd rounder for Okafor?  And we don't have one to offer, at least in '18 or '19, so could we offer a 2nd rounder down the road, or something else?

I like Theis and don't want his minutes cut much.  I'm also not particularly pro-Okafor,  but I think this team could be a 55+ win team this year even without Hayward, so I'm not super concerned about our own 1st this year if we were willing to offer it for JO + a 2nd.

I think buying low on a 21 year-old 7-footer who averaged 15+ PPG as a 19 year old rookie seems smart, if CBS is on board.  Having Okafor as a low post scoring bench specialist who can play on the 2nd unit next to Theis (who's getting minutes for his defense, rebounding and rim running) I think would help us.  This year our bench has had scoring droughts, and adding JO should allow CBS to play lineups that suit situations where we need to emphasize scoring.  Morris-Okafor-Rozier would be a good 3 headed scoring monster off the bench. 

[Moranis]

That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.

Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.   

I'm also not saying Sixers management hasn't mishandled this.  Colangelo is a double talking snake.  Coach Brown though is a player development coach with a defensive focus.  Okafor should have shown some improvement under him.

His 1 game this year he had more shots from 10-16 feet than any other distance and he hit those at 66.6%. 

This notion that Okafor can't hit a shot outside of the paint is just nonsense.  He has been fairly respectable from 10-16 feet in his career, especially for a young big man.  He has decent touch from the foul line. 

Okafor doesn't have 3 point range, but he can hit an open jumper and has throughout his career.

Not really. for career he is:

10-16 feet - 24/88 - .272%
16 feet-3pt - 84/229 - .367%

He is skilled, he has the touch, but not a jumper.

Those numbers can't be right.  There is no way Okafor has attempted 229 shots from 16 feet to the 3 point line.  Below is the link to bball-ref which had him shooting 35.2% as a rookie from 10-16 which he upped to 38.2% in his second year (he was under 27.5% from 16 feet to 3).  Of the Celtics in the regular rotation this year only Tatum, Baynes, Horford, and Rozier have a better shooting percentage from 10-16 feet than Okafor had in either of his two seasons. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoja01.html

According to basketball reference, Okafor has taken 1259 shots in his career, and 18.2% of those have been from 10-16 ft.  That calculates as 229 shots.  I think Androslav’s eyes slid over a column from the table.

That said, on mid-range shots (10-16 ft), of which he has taken a substantial number, he’s shooting a very poor 36.7%.

36.7% isn't nearly as" poor" as you think it is.  I mean Steph Curry who is one of the greatest shooters in history is only shooting 45.2% from that range.  Draymond Green is just 30.6% from that range.  Lebron 36.3%.  Love 35.1%. Cousins 33.9%.  Griffin 33.9%.  Anthony 40% (first 6 years his best was 36.6).  George 38.4%.  BBall Reference didn't track that stat until 00/01 season, Duncan from that point on averaged 40.3% from that range (so 4th season to end). 

36.7% for the first two years, is actually pretty good from that range, especially for a big man. 

[Fafnir]

He's talented sure....

But for an offensive player he has a negtive impact on that end and doesn't exactly fit the current style of play in the NBA overall.

And then you consider his defense  .....

[Tr1boy]

If the Celts trade for him....is there going to be min for him? This is what he is complaining about

76ers would easily take Yabu and Nader/2nd round pick imo

But Okafor may not get min with Baynes, Morris, Theis ahead

[Green-18]

If the Celts trade for him....is there going to be min for him? This is what he is complaining about

76ers would easily take Yabu and Nader/2nd round pick imo

But Okafor may not get min with Baynes, Morris, Theis ahead

I think Danny refuses to trade anything of real value.  2nd round pick and/or Nader is the most I can see.  Maybe another team gives up more but the rest of the league doesn't seem interested.  As for minutes, there would be no guarantee that he get's any. 

Ultimately it would fall on Okafor to understand that he needs to work for every minute.  Brad would give him a chance at some point if he committed to the defensive end and gave a genuine effort to learn our system.  A half season stint in Boston could potentially help his situation with the rest of the league.  At this point it's about improving his reputation.

[byennie]

If the Celts trade for him....is there going to be min for him? This is what he is complaining about

76ers would easily take Yabu and Nader/2nd round pick imo

But Okafor may not get min with Baynes, Morris, Theis ahead

I think Danny refuses to trade anything of real value.  2nd round pick and/or Nader is the most I can see.  Maybe another team gives up more but the rest of the league doesn't seem interested.  As for minutes, there would be no guarantee that he get's any. 

Ultimately it would fall on Okafor to understand that he needs to work for every minute.  Brad would give him a chance at some point if he committed to the defensive end and gave a genuine effort to learn our system.  A half season stint in Boston could potentially help his situation with the rest of the league.  At this point it's about improving his reputation.

I think one possibility is trading something small (say a 2nd rounder), and sending Yabusele to the G League to get a lot more minutes. Doesn't mean we actually prefer Okafor, but would allow us to take a look at him while Yabu gets developed. We could also probably justify a few weeks of "getting up to speed", and use him as injury insurance.

[saltlover]

That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.

Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.   

I'm also not saying Sixers management hasn't mishandled this.  Colangelo is a double talking snake.  Coach Brown though is a player development coach with a defensive focus.  Okafor should have shown some improvement under him.

His 1 game this year he had more shots from 10-16 feet than any other distance and he hit those at 66.6%. 

This notion that Okafor can't hit a shot outside of the paint is just nonsense.  He has been fairly respectable from 10-16 feet in his career, especially for a young big man.  He has decent touch from the foul line. 

Okafor doesn't have 3 point range, but he can hit an open jumper and has throughout his career.

Not really. for career he is:

10-16 feet - 24/88 - .272%
16 feet-3pt - 84/229 - .367%

He is skilled, he has the touch, but not a jumper.

Those numbers can't be right.  There is no way Okafor has attempted 229 shots from 16 feet to the 3 point line.  Below is the link to bball-ref which had him shooting 35.2% as a rookie from 10-16 which he upped to 38.2% in his second year (he was under 27.5% from 16 feet to 3).  Of the Celtics in the regular rotation this year only Tatum, Baynes, Horford, and Rozier have a better shooting percentage from 10-16 feet than Okafor had in either of his two seasons. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoja01.html

According to basketball reference, Okafor has taken 1259 shots in his career, and 18.2% of those have been from 10-16 ft.  That calculates as 229 shots.  I think Androslav’s eyes slid over a column from the table.

That said, on mid-range shots (10-16 ft), of which he has taken a substantial number, he’s shooting a very poor 36.7%.

36.7% isn't nearly as" poor" as you think it is.  I mean Steph Curry who is one of the greatest shooters in history is only shooting 45.2% from that range.  Draymond Green is just 30.6% from that range.  Lebron 36.3%.  Love 35.1%. Cousins 33.9%.  Griffin 33.9%.  Anthony 40% (first 6 years his best was 36.6).  George 38.4%.  BBall Reference didn't track that stat until 00/01 season, Duncan from that point on averaged 40.3% from that range (so 4th season to end). 

36.7% for the first two years, is actually pretty good from that range, especially for a big man.

The league average last year from that range was 41.2%.  36.7% is therefore unequivocally below average, about 11 percent worse.  I haven’t found a single page with which to pull every player’s shooting percentages from different distances, but I would be surprised if Okafor was much better than the 25th percentile.  Furthermore, while looking at past players performances at early years of their careers isn’t useless, as defenses have shifted to giving up that shot in exchange for preventing higher value shots, you would expect to see lower percentages for that reason alone (and in fact the shooting rates in the earlier part of the decade were closer to 39% than 41%).

[CelticsElite]

https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/925781419867205632
The Boston Celtics are considered the most likely destination for Jahlil Okafor if he agrees upon a buyout with the Philadelphia 76ers.

The Celtics have expressed interest in Okafor in the past and they also own a disabled player exception.

The 76ers have rejected Okafor's buyout request after they were unable to trade him ahead of the deadline on rookie scale options.

[Moranis]

That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.

Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.   

I'm also not saying Sixers management hasn't mishandled this.  Colangelo is a double talking snake.  Coach Brown though is a player development coach with a defensive focus.  Okafor should have shown some improvement under him.

His 1 game this year he had more shots from 10-16 feet than any other distance and he hit those at 66.6%. 

This notion that Okafor can't hit a shot outside of the paint is just nonsense.  He has been fairly respectable from 10-16 feet in his career, especially for a young big man.  He has decent touch from the foul line. 

Okafor doesn't have 3 point range, but he can hit an open jumper and has throughout his career.

Not really. for career he is:

10-16 feet - 24/88 - .272%
16 feet-3pt - 84/229 - .367%

He is skilled, he has the touch, but not a jumper.

Those numbers can't be right.  There is no way Okafor has attempted 229 shots from 16 feet to the 3 point line.  Below is the link to bball-ref which had him shooting 35.2% as a rookie from 10-16 which he upped to 38.2% in his second year (he was under 27.5% from 16 feet to 3).  Of the Celtics in the regular rotation this year only Tatum, Baynes, Horford, and Rozier have a better shooting percentage from 10-16 feet than Okafor had in either of his two seasons. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoja01.html

According to basketball reference, Okafor has taken 1259 shots in his career, and 18.2% of those have been from 10-16 ft.  That calculates as 229 shots.  I think Androslav’s eyes slid over a column from the table.

That said, on mid-range shots (10-16 ft), of which he has taken a substantial number, he’s shooting a very poor 36.7%.

36.7% isn't nearly as" poor" as you think it is.  I mean Steph Curry who is one of the greatest shooters in history is only shooting 45.2% from that range.  Draymond Green is just 30.6% from that range.  Lebron 36.3%.  Love 35.1%. Cousins 33.9%.  Griffin 33.9%.  Anthony 40% (first 6 years his best was 36.6).  George 38.4%.  BBall Reference didn't track that stat until 00/01 season, Duncan from that point on averaged 40.3% from that range (so 4th season to end). 

36.7% for the first two years, is actually pretty good from that range, especially for a big man.

The league average last year from that range was 41.2%.  36.7% is therefore unequivocally below average, about 11 percent worse.  I haven’t found a single page with which to pull every player’s shooting percentages from different distances, but I would be surprised if Okafor was much better than the 25th percentile.  Furthermore, while looking at past players performances at early years of their careers isn’t useless, as defenses have shifted to giving up that shot in exchange for preventing higher value shots, you would expect to see lower percentages for that reason alone (and in fact the shooting rates in the earlier part of the decade were closer to 39% than 41%).

3 Celtics last year shot above 41.2% from that range, yet the team was 41.7%, which yields the conclusion that the better shooters shoot more from that range, which drives the average up.  Given that, I would be interested to see what the median was and not the mean. 

And since you are talking about last year, Okafor was 38.2% last year from that range, showing improvement from year 1 to year 2 as you would expect a 2nd year player to do.  Also, do find it a bit strange to compare a big man to guards or wings on outside shooting, but at least if you are going to do it, do it apples to apples.