Is LeBron the Captain of the All Overrated team?

[incoherent]

I dont think you can overrate someone who is a top 10 all time player.  You can mix and match the top 10 however you want based on whatever you want and people's opinions will vary. But Lebron is top 10 all-time so what does it matter if people think hes number 1, 5, 10.. that is getting pretty specific.

Lots of non-Celtic fans think Larry Bird is overrated for instance. But myself am convinced he was the greatest player to ever play the game.

Lebron may be some people's number 1 Goat, some top 3, top 5 or top 10....  there is no clear answer. 

When it comes to someone being overrated. I think it can only really apply to someone not considered GOAT on a regular basis.   

After the Raptors sweep a lot of social media was talking about Lebron being #1 GOAT.  You cant blame them for taking this stance in this moment of history. When Duncan retired a few years ago everyone was claiming him the #1 GOAT, with good reason as well.  When Steph and KD retire there might be GOAT talk there as well. 

When Tatum retires the debate will end.

[Moranis]

I have hard time calling someone that is widely viewed as a top 3 player all time as overrated.  Now if you want to argue that he gets too much hype, too much press, etc., I can listen to arguments on that.  But being overhyped and being overrated are no where near the same thing. 

[Who]

I don't know if Lebron is overrated since he has had so much success over a long period of time  with incredible stats. However, one narrative has always bothered my about Lebron and that is that he elevates his teammates; I just think that is totally untrue.

While he is clearly a leader on the court and one of the best 'Point Forwards' ever, I actually generally think other players decline when they play with Lebron (and improve when they leave). If you take this current version of the Cavs. Hill, Clarkson, Hood, and Nance Jr were all clearly better players before coming to CLE. Love put up bigger stats with Minny, but the team was also horrible so of course his numbers were going to take a hit. Korver has had some success, but I think it's because his role as a catch and shoot 3-point shooter is perfect in a Lebron system.

It's not that Lebron can't control a game - clearly he can - but unless you're a player with the ultimate confidence (see JR Smith), you can never really have success on a Lebron team if any part of your game depends on making moves with the ball - you just won't ever have that opportunity. He'll trust a player like Kyrie to take over part of the game, but everybody else just walks around on eggshells wondering when the time will come that he will yell at them.

Counterpoint: I somehow still know the name Daniel Gibson.

I think LeBron James - similar to Allen Iverson or Tyreke Evans - is excellent at elevating the play of spot up shooters (Gibson, Korver, Big Z) and rim shooters (Varejao, Tristan Thompson). Finishers. Players who cannot create much for themselves but are great at playing off the ball and hitting open shots that are created for them by someone else (LeBron).

I don't think LeBron - similar to Iverson or Tyreke - is as good playing next to creators. Guys who need the ball and can create for themselves and/or others. Guys like D-Wade & Bosh or Kyrie and K-Love. He doesn't get the most out of those guys. Those players struggle to get enough touches in the right spots in the flow of the offense. It often becomes a his turn / my turn type of setup instead of true teamwork. LeBron struggled with both Bosh and K-Love offensively. He struggled with slashers like Larry Hughes too.

LeBron is great at dominating the ball and elevating the play of role players.
I don't think he is great at sharing the ball with other scorers/creators.

Again -- similar to Iverson or a Tyreke Evans

[gouki88]

I have hard time calling someone that is widely viewed as a top 3 player all time as overrated.  Now if you want to argue that he gets too much hype, too much press, etc., I can listen to arguments on that.  But being overhyped and being overrated are no where near the same thing.

I think that's part of it

[celticinorlando]

LBJ is a great offensive player. The reason the Cavs suck on defense is because of him. He is usually covering the least offensive player on the other team and does so by standing in the paint

He does not close out on shooters and does not work at all.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I’m not going to do it now but will eventually go on a rant about how David Robinson may be the most underrated player ever.


That said, I’ve always thought Iverson was one of the most overrated players ever. Nash certainly belongs, as does Westbrook. Kobe was undoubtedly a great, great talent, but he’s not nearly where some like to place him. If Wilt was as dominant as his numbers suggested, he wouldn’t have “let” Russell win 11 championships.


LeBron, however, is as good as he was advertised, which is saying a lot because he was the most hyped prospect EVER. The guy actually lived up to expectations. Whether you rank him as GOAT (wrong) or top 10-15, he’s one of the greatest to ever play. Yes, he’s a whiner. Yes, he had The Decision debacle. But his success is undeniable. The guy has done some pretty extraordinary things in his career. When all is said and done, he will be the statistical GOAT, along with multiple rings, MVP’s and Finals MVP’s.

I have David Robinson over Hakeem, who imo is the most overrated center of all time.

This one has always been super tough for me. Prime Robinson was a 25/12/3/3+/1+ guy, whereas prime Hakeem was pretty much identical, except probably a better rebounder and worse scorer.

I feel as if Robinson is underrated, whereas Hakeem is merely accurately rated.

Hakeem and Robinson played against each other during their primes numerous times. Hakeem outplayed him, there is no doubt about that. He had more team and individual success. David never was as good of a scorer as Hakeem. Sure, the Admiral led the league in scoring, but he could be shut down in the postseason, teams could prepare for him, whether the Dream was unstoppable. He had too many moves, too soft of a touch, too refined footwork for the opposition, and of course, he had the ultimate confidence that culminated in his B2B domination that netted two championships.

To me, overall Robinson was a better defender than he was the offensive player. Physically, his body was better than Aytons or that of any center today. I remember him defending with great success (include Shaq) even in his last playoff runs.
7'2'', long, strong, explosive, moves lateraly, disciplined - a specimen, NAT GEO level.

The most sculpted arms and shoulders in NBA history.

[droopdog7]

My overrated do you mean, rather than being the 1st or 2nd best player of all time, he might be 3rd or 4th?

[nickagneta]

I can't help but think if you think Lebron is overratec that you just can't put aside your distaste for Lebron to see just how great he is. Is he overhyped in the modern internet media world? Sure. Overrated? I don't see it. He is definitely a top 7 player ever with MJ, Magic, Bird, Russell, Chamberlain and Kareem. Where you rank him is personal but he is definitely there and I can understand arguments for him being anywhere from 2nd to 7th best.

My all time overrated list:

Allen Iverson - a ridiculously bad defensive player that was a terribly inefficient chucker that seemed to be more worried about getting his and getting respect than winning. I think his last couple of years in the league epitomized what he was as a player and teammate.

Kobe - he always needed an excellent big to be successful in the Triangle. Shaq carried him to 3 titles. He wasn't terribly efficient. And his selection to so many All-Defense teams was a pure joke and everyone knew it.

CP3 - how can such an unclutch player be considered so great? He rarely comes up big in the biggest moments or games. And can someone please explain to me how he got so many All-Defense team awards when he was in the league with Avery Bradley and Bradley didn't get those awards. Baffling to me.

Vince Carter - dude never made his teammates better. He was nothing but flash for points for so long and his defense wasn't good. But because he could fly and dunk, people loved him as a player and I think severely overrated his overall talent and all around skills.

Current most overrated Celtic: Marcus Smart

[angryguy77]

Soon it should be time to make the underrated team

Harold Minor better be number 1 on that list.

[angryguy77]

Chris Webber = bad shot selection throughout his career. Mediocre scoring efficiency yet never stopped him putting up loads of shots. Indifferent defender for majority of his healthy career and terrible defender post injury. Only had a couple of years where he put effort in on defense. A choker in big moments. Bad team leader. Almost always passed the buck to a teammate instead of taking control.

Dr. J = genuinely great player but I don't think he is top 15 all time. Did not make his teammates better. Great scorer around the basket but sketchy jump-shot. Good but unspectacular passer. A highly capable defender but often caught ball watching and going for home-run plays on D.

Definitely agree with CP3. Great talent but his obsession with spoon-feeding his teammates instead of trusting them hurt his teams.

Webber's calling timeout skills are greatly underrated.

[moiso]

I definitely don't think Lebron is overrated but I agree with a lot of names here.  Iverson might be my first choice.  He is looked at as this amazing player but he only went far in the playoffs one or two times.  I think Isaiah Thomas played as well or better last year than Iverson ever played.

Webber was definitely overrated.  Constant mistakes and being scared to even have the ball at the end of important games.  I remember him being wide open in crunch time and turning his back totally away from the rim and panicking looking to find Jon Barry, Doug Christie, or Mike Bibby.  It was embarrassing.  I actually saw KG do the same thing on the Wolves several times but he was so awesome throughout the games that I wouldn't put him on my list.

Vince Carter- absolutely.  I don't think he was ever a great player.  Kobe- I have to agree that he is overrated by the people who think he is one of best ever. 

Demarcus Cousins was greatly overrated for a few years but I think that most people's perception have fallen in line with his actual impact on winning.  I think Rasheed Wallace was greatly overrated for a time.  I've never seen such a lazy out of shape player get so much respect.

[Eja117]

I concur on the Vince Carter hype.

[Eja117]

Kobe. He’s a top-15 player, but the hype machine had him neck and neck with Jordan. The only reason he has 5 titles is because Shaq carried him to three of them (and the refs gave him another).

With his talent he should have been even better, but he never trusted his teammates.

This is a pretty interesting interpretation of Kobe's career.

[Eja117]

He's lost 5 times in the finals Lol

I absolutely hate this argument.

So Lebron is 3-5 in 8 finals appearances. Larry bird was 3-2 in 5 appearances. It's easy to say winning 3/5 is better than winning 3/8, but this ignores the fact that this unfortunately means BIRD LOST MORE EVEN EARLIER IN THE PLAYOFFS!!!!  It is better to win the conference finals and lose in the finals than to just lose in the conference finals. If you are going by "winning," if you have the same number of titles it is more impressive to have won your conference more often and made more finals appearances.

Same thing happened in some of the Brady arguments. "Montana was 4-0, Brady was 4-2"(before the ATL + PHI superbowls). But this means Montana couldn't even make it to the big game a few times, meaning he couldn't even get out of his own conference 2 extra times.

As an aside, here is an interesting 538 article from a couple years ago (before Lebron's cleveland title but after the first GS loss) showing various MVP players and their predicted finals wins vs actual finals wins.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lebrons-finals-record-isnt-really-a-disappointment/

Ok, but try to imagine Larry, Magic, and Dr J getting together on a team. How many rings does that team win? That's Bron.   Bron can't ride a bike without 2 all stars to help him.

[Eja117]

Kevin Durant.

Had Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka all on the same team and blew it