NBA 2020-2021 Season Thread

[Tr1boy]

135 million guaranteed and up to 160 million (with incentives)

Overpayment if you ask me.  Near max for Jrue Holiday??

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31193843/milwaukee-bucks-jrue-holiday-agree-four-year-extension-worth-160-million

[Roy H.]

Nice job getting paid, Jrue.  Love that guy.

Between Jrue, Middleton and Giannis, that’s a lot of salary.

[Jiri Welsch]

Bucks are shaping up to be a regular season juggernaut that never makes it over the hump. You love to see it.

[tazzmaniac]

Jrue is having a career year when it comes to his shooting and scoring efficiency. I just don't think he is going to be able to replicate that for four 4 more years at $35-40 million a year.

If he returns to his usual 45% FG%, 35% 3PT% and 54% TS%, that is going to look like a terrible contract.

Only if you completely ignore his elite defense.  No surprise that's he's putting up his best efficiency numbers playing with Giannis and Middleton.  With his overall versatility, Holiday is a near perfect 3rd star.

Maybe but a 3rd star isn't payed 40M a year, esp in this Covid context. They are all in now. And Middelton as the second of Giannis may not be enough.

The market is crazy: at this rythm we will end with a 30M TPE for a Fournier S/T   

They were all in when they traded for Jrue which they did in order to ensure Giannis re-signed with them.  They pretty much were all in when they gave Middleton his big contract.  When you have a superstar, you better go all in and they've done a pretty good job at doing so. 

[RodyTur10]

Jrue Holiday has been underrated for a long time. He's 15th in EPM https://dunksandthrees.com/epm in the NBA for the year, higher than any Celtic. And also according to a lot of Bucks' fans he has become their second best player.

Again he's often overlooked, so I don't think he'll make it, but Holiday should be a candidate for All NBA.
I'd be happy to exchange Walker + 3 picks for him as an upgrade, even on such a big contract.

[nickagneta]

Jrue is having a career year when it comes to his shooting and scoring efficiency. I just don't think he is going to be able to replicate that for four 4 more years at $35-40 million a year.

If he returns to his usual 45% FG%, 35% 3PT% and 54% TS%, that is going to look like a terrible contract.

Only if you completely ignore his elite defense.  No surprise that's he's putting up his best efficiency numbers playing with Giannis and Middleton.  With his overall versatility, Holiday is a near perfect 3rd star.

Maybe but a 3rd star isn't payed 40M a year, esp in this Covid context. They are all in now. And Middelton as the second of Giannis may not be enough.

The market is crazy: at this rythm we will end with a 30M TPE for a Fournier S/T   

They were all in when they traded for Jrue which they did in order to ensure Giannis re-signed with them.  They pretty much were all in when they gave Middleton his big contract.  When you have a superstar, you better go all in and they've done a pretty good job at doing so.

I think Milwaukee would have been better off trying to trade for a #2 guy last year, moving Middleton to a better suited #3 guy position. They now have, IMO, a #1 guy with 2 #3 guys and those two guys will be making a combined $70+ million for the foreseeable future.

I think that's bad management. In a year where their top 9 guys have been exceedingly healthy, they are still only playing at a 65% win ratio. If that trio was THE trio that Milwaukee wanted, they should win more than 65% of their games, even more so in a season where so many teams are having health and injury issues.

I understand why they gave Jrue that contract, but still think it a terrible overpay and that it will become a horrible, problematic contract in just a year or two.

[tazzmaniac]

Jrue is having a career year when it comes to his shooting and scoring efficiency. I just don't think he is going to be able to replicate that for four 4 more years at $35-40 million a year.

If he returns to his usual 45% FG%, 35% 3PT% and 54% TS%, that is going to look like a terrible contract.

Only if you completely ignore his elite defense.  No surprise that's he's putting up his best efficiency numbers playing with Giannis and Middleton.  With his overall versatility, Holiday is a near perfect 3rd star.

Maybe but a 3rd star isn't payed 40M a year, esp in this Covid context. They are all in now. And Middelton as the second of Giannis may not be enough.

The market is crazy: at this rythm we will end with a 30M TPE for a Fournier S/T   

They were all in when they traded for Jrue which they did in order to ensure Giannis re-signed with them.  They pretty much were all in when they gave Middleton his big contract.  When you have a superstar, you better go all in and they've done a pretty good job at doing so.

I think Milwaukee would have been better off trying to trade for a #2 guy last year, moving Middleton to a better suited #3 guy position. They now have, IMO, a #1 guy with 2 #3 guys and those two guys will be making a combined $70+ million for the foreseeable future.

I think that's bad management. In a year where their top 9 guys have been exceedingly healthy, they are still only playing at a 65% win ratio. If that trio was THE trio that Milwaukee wanted, they should win more than 65% of their games, even more so in a season where so many teams are having health and injury issues.

I understand why they gave Jrue that contract, but still think it a terrible overpay and that it will become a horrible, problematic contract in just a year or two.

You mean that mythical #2 guy that didn't exist?  Unless you provide names, your argument is bogus.  65% vs 75% regular season win ratio doesn't mean that much for the playoffs. 

[tazzmaniac]

As I suspected, not a fully guaranteed deal.  Of course it depends on whether the bonuses are deemed likely or not.  Also whether the bonuses are geared toward injury protection, individual performance, team performance or some combo. 

Milwaukee Bucks guard Jrue Holiday has agreed to a four-year, $135 million extension that includes bonuses that could take the deal to $160 million, agent Jason Glushon told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski.

The deal includes a player option for the fourth year in 2024-25, according to Glushon.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31193843/milwaukee-bucks-jrue-holiday-agree-four-year-extension-worth-160-million

[Celtics2021]

4 years, $135 million, plus incentives worth up to another $25 million per Woj/ESPN.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31193843/milwaukee-bucks-jrue-holiday-agree-four-year-extension-worth-160-million

It’s deals like this that make me think Kemba is tradable this summer if need be.  The free agent market is thin, and the money he’s owed with two years left probably isn’t too far off what he could get in free agency.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post — didn’t realize this would be posted in the season thread.

[nickagneta]

Jrue is having a career year when it comes to his shooting and scoring efficiency. I just don't think he is going to be able to replicate that for four 4 more years at $35-40 million a year.

If he returns to his usual 45% FG%, 35% 3PT% and 54% TS%, that is going to look like a terrible contract.

Only if you completely ignore his elite defense.  No surprise that's he's putting up his best efficiency numbers playing with Giannis and Middleton.  With his overall versatility, Holiday is a near perfect 3rd star.

Maybe but a 3rd star isn't payed 40M a year, esp in this Covid context. They are all in now. And Middelton as the second of Giannis may not be enough.

The market is crazy: at this rythm we will end with a 30M TPE for a Fournier S/T   

They were all in when they traded for Jrue which they did in order to ensure Giannis re-signed with them.  They pretty much were all in when they gave Middleton his big contract.  When you have a superstar, you better go all in and they've done a pretty good job at doing so.

I think Milwaukee would have been better off trying to trade for a #2 guy last year, moving Middleton to a better suited #3 guy position. They now have, IMO, a #1 guy with 2 #3 guys and those two guys will be making a combined $70+ million for the foreseeable future.

I think that's bad management. In a year where their top 9 guys have been exceedingly healthy, they are still only playing at a 65% win ratio. If that trio was THE trio that Milwaukee wanted, they should win more than 65% of their games, even more so in a season where so many teams are having health and injury issues.

I understand why they gave Jrue that contract, but still think it a terrible overpay and that it will become a horrible, problematic contract in just a year or two.

You mean that mythical #2 guy that didn't exist?  Unless you provide names, your argument is bogus.  65% vs 75% regular season win ratio doesn't mean that much for the playoffs.

You mean other than Harden, Hayward and Westbrook?

[tazzmaniac]

Jrue is having a career year when it comes to his shooting and scoring efficiency. I just don't think he is going to be able to replicate that for four 4 more years at $35-40 million a year.

If he returns to his usual 45% FG%, 35% 3PT% and 54% TS%, that is going to look like a terrible contract.

Only if you completely ignore his elite defense.  No surprise that's he's putting up his best efficiency numbers playing with Giannis and Middleton.  With his overall versatility, Holiday is a near perfect 3rd star.

Maybe but a 3rd star isn't payed 40M a year, esp in this Covid context. They are all in now. And Middelton as the second of Giannis may not be enough.

The market is crazy: at this rythm we will end with a 30M TPE for a Fournier S/T   

They were all in when they traded for Jrue which they did in order to ensure Giannis re-signed with them.  They pretty much were all in when they gave Middleton his big contract.  When you have a superstar, you better go all in and they've done a pretty good job at doing so.

I think Milwaukee would have been better off trying to trade for a #2 guy last year, moving Middleton to a better suited #3 guy position. They now have, IMO, a #1 guy with 2 #3 guys and those two guys will be making a combined $70+ million for the foreseeable future.

I think that's bad management. In a year where their top 9 guys have been exceedingly healthy, they are still only playing at a 65% win ratio. If that trio was THE trio that Milwaukee wanted, they should win more than 65% of their games, even more so in a season where so many teams are having health and injury issues.

I understand why they gave Jrue that contract, but still think it a terrible overpay and that it will become a horrible, problematic contract in just a year or two.

You mean that mythical #2 guy that didn't exist?  Unless you provide names, your argument is bogus.  65% vs 75% regular season win ratio doesn't mean that much for the playoffs.

You mean other than Harden, Hayward and Westbrook?

Westbrook is rubbish and would be a terrible fit with Giannis.  No way Harden would go to Milwaukee.  I'd rather have Holiday than Hayward. 

[nickagneta]

Jrue is having a career year when it comes to his shooting and scoring efficiency. I just don't think he is going to be able to replicate that for four 4 more years at $35-40 million a year.

If he returns to his usual 45% FG%, 35% 3PT% and 54% TS%, that is going to look like a terrible contract.

Only if you completely ignore his elite defense.  No surprise that's he's putting up his best efficiency numbers playing with Giannis and Middleton.  With his overall versatility, Holiday is a near perfect 3rd star.

Maybe but a 3rd star isn't payed 40M a year, esp in this Covid context. They are all in now. And Middelton as the second of Giannis may not be enough.

The market is crazy: at this rythm we will end with a 30M TPE for a Fournier S/T   

They were all in when they traded for Jrue which they did in order to ensure Giannis re-signed with them.  They pretty much were all in when they gave Middleton his big contract.  When you have a superstar, you better go all in and they've done a pretty good job at doing so.

I think Milwaukee would have been better off trying to trade for a #2 guy last year, moving Middleton to a better suited #3 guy position. They now have, IMO, a #1 guy with 2 #3 guys and those two guys will be making a combined $70+ million for the foreseeable future.

I think that's bad management. In a year where their top 9 guys have been exceedingly healthy, they are still only playing at a 65% win ratio. If that trio was THE trio that Milwaukee wanted, they should win more than 65% of their games, even more so in a season where so many teams are having health and injury issues.

I understand why they gave Jrue that contract, but still think it a terrible overpay and that it will become a horrible, problematic contract in just a year or two.

You mean that mythical #2 guy that didn't exist?  Unless you provide names, your argument is bogus.  65% vs 75% regular season win ratio doesn't mean that much for the playoffs.

You mean other than Harden, Hayward and Westbrook?

Westbrook is rubbish and would be a terrible fit with Giannis.  No way Harden would go to Milwaukee.  I'd rather have Holiday than Hayward.

Your opinions aside, my point was there very much were alternatives that were clear #2s, which you claimed there wasn't. Mythical is the word you used.

I think Giannis/Harden/Middleton and Giannis/Hayward/Middleton are both better than Giannis/Middleton/Holiday. Both were possible, regardless of how probable.

Maybe getting Holiday is all that the Bucks could do. Maybe they kicked the tires on the possibilities of adding Harden and Hayward and didn't find it feasible. I guess we will never know. But, other options were out there to be had that were #2 options.

[tazzmaniac]

Jrue is having a career year when it comes to his shooting and scoring efficiency. I just don't think he is going to be able to replicate that for four 4 more years at $35-40 million a year.

If he returns to his usual 45% FG%, 35% 3PT% and 54% TS%, that is going to look like a terrible contract.

Only if you completely ignore his elite defense.  No surprise that's he's putting up his best efficiency numbers playing with Giannis and Middleton.  With his overall versatility, Holiday is a near perfect 3rd star.

Maybe but a 3rd star isn't payed 40M a year, esp in this Covid context. They are all in now. And Middelton as the second of Giannis may not be enough.

The market is crazy: at this rythm we will end with a 30M TPE for a Fournier S/T   

They were all in when they traded for Jrue which they did in order to ensure Giannis re-signed with them.  They pretty much were all in when they gave Middleton his big contract.  When you have a superstar, you better go all in and they've done a pretty good job at doing so.

I think Milwaukee would have been better off trying to trade for a #2 guy last year, moving Middleton to a better suited #3 guy position. They now have, IMO, a #1 guy with 2 #3 guys and those two guys will be making a combined $70+ million for the foreseeable future.

I think that's bad management. In a year where their top 9 guys have been exceedingly healthy, they are still only playing at a 65% win ratio. If that trio was THE trio that Milwaukee wanted, they should win more than 65% of their games, even more so in a season where so many teams are having health and injury issues.

I understand why they gave Jrue that contract, but still think it a terrible overpay and that it will become a horrible, problematic contract in just a year or two.

You mean that mythical #2 guy that didn't exist?  Unless you provide names, your argument is bogus.  65% vs 75% regular season win ratio doesn't mean that much for the playoffs.

You mean other than Harden, Hayward and Westbrook?

Westbrook is rubbish and would be a terrible fit with Giannis.  No way Harden would go to Milwaukee.  I'd rather have Holiday than Hayward.

Your opinions aside, my point was there very much were alternatives that were clear #2s, which you claimed there wasn't. Mythical is the word you used.

I think Giannis/Harden/Middleton and Giannis/Hayward/Middleton are both better than Giannis/Middleton/Holiday. Both were possible, regardless of how probable.

Maybe getting Holiday is all that the Bucks could do. Maybe they kicked the tires on the possibilities of adding Harden and Hayward and didn't find it feasible. I guess we will never know. But, other options were out there to be had that were #2 options.

You're just spouting your own opinions.  I think mine are based more in reality.  Hayward isn't a clear #2 even before his injury laden stint with the Celtics.  Given his elite defense, I think Holiday is better than Hayward. 

Putting that aside, the only way the Bucks could have gotten Hayward was by trading with us and Hayward would have had to agree to go there.  Hayward wanted to go to Indiana and a deal couldn't be worked out.  Now I would have been doing my happy dance if Ainge would have flipped Hayward for Holiday. 

[gouki88]

Good for Jrue! Bucks are going to be relying a lot upon Vet Min guys.

Glad we didn’t trade for him if that was his future contract

[nickagneta]

Jrue is having a career year when it comes to his shooting and scoring efficiency. I just don't think he is going to be able to replicate that for four 4 more years at $35-40 million a year.

If he returns to his usual 45% FG%, 35% 3PT% and 54% TS%, that is going to look like a terrible contract.

Only if you completely ignore his elite defense.  No surprise that's he's putting up his best efficiency numbers playing with Giannis and Middleton.  With his overall versatility, Holiday is a near perfect 3rd star.

Maybe but a 3rd star isn't payed 40M a year, esp in this Covid context. They are all in now. And Middelton as the second of Giannis may not be enough.

The market is crazy: at this rythm we will end with a 30M TPE for a Fournier S/T   

They were all in when they traded for Jrue which they did in order to ensure Giannis re-signed with them.  They pretty much were all in when they gave Middleton his big contract.  When you have a superstar, you better go all in and they've done a pretty good job at doing so.

I think Milwaukee would have been better off trying to trade for a #2 guy last year, moving Middleton to a better suited #3 guy position. They now have, IMO, a #1 guy with 2 #3 guys and those two guys will be making a combined $70+ million for the foreseeable future.

I think that's bad management. In a year where their top 9 guys have been exceedingly healthy, they are still only playing at a 65% win ratio. If that trio was THE trio that Milwaukee wanted, they should win more than 65% of their games, even more so in a season where so many teams are having health and injury issues.

I understand why they gave Jrue that contract, but still think it a terrible overpay and that it will become a horrible, problematic contract in just a year or two.

You mean that mythical #2 guy that didn't exist?  Unless you provide names, your argument is bogus.  65% vs 75% regular season win ratio doesn't mean that much for the playoffs.

You mean other than Harden, Hayward and Westbrook?

Westbrook is rubbish and would be a terrible fit with Giannis.  No way Harden would go to Milwaukee.  I'd rather have Holiday than Hayward.

Your opinions aside, my point was there very much were alternatives that were clear #2s, which you claimed there wasn't. Mythical is the word you used.

I think Giannis/Harden/Middleton and Giannis/Hayward/Middleton are both better than Giannis/Middleton/Holiday. Both were possible, regardless of how probable.

Maybe getting Holiday is all that the Bucks could do. Maybe they kicked the tires on the possibilities of adding Harden and Hayward and didn't find it feasible. I guess we will never know. But, other options were out there to be had that were #2 options.

You're just spouting your own opinions.  I think mine are based more in reality.  Hayward isn't a clear #2 even before his injury laden stint with the Celtics.  Given his elite defense, I think Holiday is better than Hayward. 

Putting that aside, the only way the Bucks could have gotten Hayward was by trading with us and Hayward would have had to agree to go there.  Hayward wanted to go to Indiana and a deal couldn't be worked out.  Now I would have been doing my happy dance if Ainge would have flipped Hayward for Holiday.

There were other options. One clearly better than Jrue and others arguably better than him. I provided names you requested that you didn't even think existed, so clearly my point is not bogus.

I think the Bucks could have done better than Jrue. I think the contract could be a bad one as I don't see that trio as something great.