Who's being more exposed in this tread, Okafor or LB?
I generally don't disagree with LB as much as you and some others have over the year. We clearly couldn't disagree more on the Okafor stuff. What is funny to me is that LB has decided he is so invested in Okafor being a great player that he is taking positions that put him in a pretty tough space to argue.
Da hell are you talking about?
I've been clear with my opinion on Okafor. He's a quality prospect. He's a better than any prospect on our team under the age of 24. He obviously has flaws. Nobody is disputing that.
And the fact is, we tried trading up for him on draft day 2015, and it was widely reported that we offered a package built around the brooklyn pick for him at the trade deadline.
I get you don't like Okafor. I get you are in deep denial about was widely reported in February. That's your problem, not mine. Get over it. Starting to think maybe you or one of your friends was one of the guys Okafor allegedly beat up in the Boston bar last year. The hate you have for him is next-level. I suggest you e-mail Danny Ainge and beg him to stop making offers for him and stop lashing out at me for speaking the truth.
I can literally write the exact same post back to you.
I get you like Okafor. I get you are in deep denial about was widely reported in June.
#1 - I don't "like" Okafor. I accept that he's a better prospect than any young player on our team under the age of 24. That makes me "like" him as much as the dozens of other young players who are better prospects than anyone on our team under the age of 24. The reason why we keep talking about Okafor is because this forum is obsessed with him and people keep starting threads about him. I'm willing to give my perspective on that. If this forum was obsessively creating threads about Jabari Parker and people like you were calling Parker "garbage", I'd be quick to correct you on those threads as well. That doesn't mean I love Jabari Parker.
#2 - I'm not in deep denial about what was reported in June. I flat out admitted in this thread that I am well aware that Chad Ford said he thought Okafor wasn't worth a top 5 pick (but presumably was worth a pick in the 6-8 range). That's the same article Kevin Pelton said Jusuf Nurkic was equal value for the #3 pick. I'm not in denial about either. Yes, I agree with you that ESPN writers have varied opinions on the trade value of various players. Was there any actual reports of Philly trying to trade Okafor on draft night? I didn't see them.
#3 - We have made multiple offers for Okafor since he entered the league. At this point if you don't believe that to be true, you might as well just ignore all media. It's been widely reported and backed up by numerous sources. The fact that Ainge offered the Brooklyn pick for a player came directly from Ainge himself. Bulpett was the one who told us it was Okafor and we have never seen anyone say otherwise. Go whine to Bulpett if you are upset about his reporting. Go write angry letters to ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS, NBC, etc and all the many local and national publications who reported what Bulpett wrote without fact-checking. My assumption is that they did... and nobody from Boston or Philly disputed it - so they continued to credit Bulpett with breaking the factual story.
#4 - I merely brought up the fact Philly turned down our package built around the 2016 Brooklyn pick in February to highlight that I would guess Ainge is less inclined to trade the 2017 Brooklyn pick for him. Early signs are that 2017 is a much better draft than the 2 player draft that just happened. WHat happened in the past doesn't really matter. We reportedly tried trading 8+ picks to move up and take Okafor the night he was drafted... we reportedly tried trading picks in addition to Marcus Smart... that doesn't mean we'd offer that for him now.
1--> Chad Ford God Tiers rank both Smart and Jahlil tier 2 prospects. Remarkably similar players actually
Smart:
NBA ready body, NBA ready defender, high work rate, solid vision with basketball, does a nice job bullying way to rim. All the strengths check out and hes a better defender than hed been given credit for, likewise with the unexpectedly awesome clutch gene and knack for big plays
Hot head/flopper, not explosive or elusive with ball, bad shooter, bad shot selection.
All the weaknesses check out, shootings worse than we thought
Finally add injury prone to weaknesses. Also kinda hard to judge as hes played behind Rondo Bradley Turner and Thomas throughout his career.
Okafor:
Incredibly gifted offensive post player, elite footwork, terrific NBA body, solid passer out of post.
All of them check out, post skills better than expected, except passing, that hasnt translated
Terrible defensively, bad rebounder, poor shooter
add injury concerns and knucklehead concerns to his weaknesses with the caveat of having to have played his whole career with Noel or Embiid.
2 tier 2 guys who have come into the league and confirmed most of their strengths, proved one is better than initially thought, added injury prone to the list of concerns and failed to assuage nearly any other concerns.
Smart is 2 years older, but also has proven himself more valuable to winning and can better exist in the role-player form both players currently exist in.
2 &3 are whatever, rumors fly all over the place. I dont think theres any reason to put too too much stock in the Bulpett one over all the others. I think the consensus of reports was the Philly wasnt going to be able to get a top 5 pick for Okafor. It also makes sense.
4 We were reportedly readying a warchest of picks the day before the draft if Okafor fell to 3.
Curiously enough, Okafor did fall to 3 and crickets.
Then a bunch of reports come out after the draft that we tried to make a trade with everyone from #4 to #10. Why leave 3 out if we offered 8 picks? it doesnt make sense.
Next, that day was probably the highest Okafors has been. At midseason with the rumor that we offered Brooklyn+ for Okafor, even if we assume it happened (which is not something you can really safely do) then it still doesnt establish Okafors value at the deadline and more importantly it doesnt establish it now. Okafor has suffered a knee injury, continued to prove to people hes a knucklehead, Phillys seen the influx of Saric and Embiid and drafted Ben Simmons and Okafor this year has been kinda
Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ty.
All this adding up to Okafor value now < Okafor value 10 months ago.
Ultimately we are trying to make an evaluation based on a series of rumors and reports, 1/3 of which are probably entirely fabricated and half of which are probably smokescreens.
Its hard to do. Plus with Jahlil, his situation is so
Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.y in Philly that stats dont really do any of it justice.
This debate will exist until he is no longer in the philly big-man traffic jam. This is going to be discusses ad nauseam for 2 reasons.
1. Philly has too many bigs, we dont have enough the trading partner aspect is too obvious + our rebuild timelines began at the same time thus they are of obvious interest especially as they exist within the Atlantic.
thats why we discuss this often
2. Phillys
Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ed bigman situation makes it virtually impossible to evaluate Okafor. Stats are basically useless and trade rumors + ESPN opinions are likely to give you values all over the spectrum.
Thats why we dont make any progress in the discusion.
Ultimately none of us have a
Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.n clue. I say forget the experts, forget the stats. Go watch some Jahlil Okafor and use the eye test.
Topic: Would you trade 2017 Nets pick for Okafor? (Read 30184 times)