Would you trade 2017 Nets pick for Okafor?

[celticsclay]

The main reason that pick had value when we tried and failed to trade it for okafor was the tiny chance it ended up Ben Simmons.  Hence it had more trade value than on draft day when it was the 3rd pick in a 2 player draft.  All the guys in the 3-8 range were interchange.  The pick was more valuable when it had a tiny shot at ending up top 2.

So are you sticking with Bulpett and "other sources", or did you find something more credible?

got anything disputing it?  Reach out to Bulpett and ask him about it.

Got anything to dispute Ford's report the 76ers couldn't get a top 6 pick in the 2016 draft leading up to the draft? Reach out to Ford and ask him about it....

[celticsclay]

Who's being more exposed in this tread, Okafor or LB?

I generally don't disagree with LB as much as you and some others have over the year. We clearly couldn't disagree more on the Okafor stuff. What is funny to me is that LB has decided he is so invested in Okafor being a great player that he is taking positions that put him in a pretty tough space to argue. If you want to hang on to some report from 8 months ago that the Celtics may have been interested in Okafor at that time, fine. However, since then the guy has just gone down hill. This year has been awful for Okafor so far with his numbers down across the board and increasing questions about his fitness and motivation. The reason LB is latching on to some rumor from a Boston beat guy from 8 months ago is because there hasn't been anything positive written about Okafor since then.

[LarBrd33]

Who's being more exposed in this tread, Okafor or LB?

I generally don't disagree with LB as much as you and some others have over the year. We clearly couldn't disagree more on the Okafor stuff. What is funny to me is that LB has decided he is so invested in Okafor being a great player that he is taking positions that put him in a pretty tough space to argue.

Da hell are you talking about? 

I've been clear with my opinion on Okafor.  He's a quality prospect.  He's a better than any prospect on our team under the age of 24.  He obviously has flaws.  Nobody is disputing that.

And the fact is, we tried trading up for him on draft day 2015, and it was widely reported that we offered a package built around the brooklyn pick for him at the trade deadline.

I get you don't like Okafor.  I get you are in deep denial about was widely reported in February.  That's your problem, not mine.  Get over it.  Starting to think maybe you or one of your friends was one of the guys Okafor allegedly beat up in the Boston bar last year.  The hate you have for him is next-level.  I suggest you e-mail Danny Ainge and beg him to stop making offers for him and stop lashing out at me for speaking the truth.   

Also, Eddie reportedly has me "blocked".  If he has me blocked, he's not reading my posts and has no valid opinion on anything I have to say.  Stop feeding my fanboy troll.  Thanks.

[celticsclay]

Who's being more exposed in this tread, Okafor or LB?

I generally don't disagree with LB as much as you and some others have over the year. We clearly couldn't disagree more on the Okafor stuff. What is funny to me is that LB has decided he is so invested in Okafor being a great player that he is taking positions that put him in a pretty tough space to argue.

Da hell are you talking about? 

I've been clear with my opinion on Okafor.  He's a quality prospect.  He's a better than any prospect on our team under the age of 24.  He obviously has flaws.  Nobody is disputing that.

And the fact is, we tried trading up for him on draft day 2015, and it was widely reported that we offered a package built around the brooklyn pick for him at the trade deadline.

I get you don't like Okafor.  I get you are in deep denial about was widely reported in February.  That's your problem, not mine.  Get over it.  Starting to think maybe you or one of your friends was one of the guys Okafor allegedly beat up in the Boston bar last year.  The hate you have for him is next-level.  I suggest you e-mail Danny Ainge and beg him to stop making offers for him and stop lashing out at me for speaking the truth.

I can literally write the exact same post back to you.

I get you like Okafor.  I get you are in deep denial about was widely reported in June.  That's your problem, not mine.  Get over it. Starting to think maybe one of your enemies was one of the guys Okafor allegedly beat up in the Boston bar last year.  The love you have for him is next-level.  I suggest you e-mail Danny Ainge and beg him to start making offers for him and stop lashing out at me for speaking the truth.

[The One]

Who's being more exposed in this tread, Okafor or LB?

I generally don't disagree with LB as much as you and some others have over the year. We clearly couldn't disagree more on the Okafor stuff. What is funny to me is that LB has decided he is so invested in Okafor being a great player that he is taking positions that put him in a pretty tough space to argue.

Da hell are you talking about? 

I've been clear with my opinion on Okafor.  He's a quality prospect.  He's a better than any prospect on our team under the age of 24.  He obviously has flaws.  Nobody is disputing that.

And the fact is, we tried trading up for him on draft day 2015, and it was widely reported that we offered a package built around the brooklyn pick for him at the trade deadline.

I get you don't like Okafor.  I get you are in deep denial about was widely reported in February.  That's your problem, not mine.  Get over it.  Starting to think maybe you or one of your friends was one of the guys Okafor allegedly beat up in the Boston bar last year.  The hate you have for him is next-level.  I suggest you e-mail Danny Ainge and beg him to stop making offers for him and stop lashing out at me for speaking the truth.   

Also, Eddie reportedly has me "blocked".  If he has me blocked, he's not reading my posts and has no valid opinion on anything I have to say.  Stop feeding my fanboy troll.  Thanks.

I disagree.  He won't be versatile enough defensively. He would get pulled in crunch time regularly.

[LarBrd33]

Who's being more exposed in this tread, Okafor or LB?

I generally don't disagree with LB as much as you and some others have over the year. We clearly couldn't disagree more on the Okafor stuff. What is funny to me is that LB has decided he is so invested in Okafor being a great player that he is taking positions that put him in a pretty tough space to argue.

Da hell are you talking about? 

I've been clear with my opinion on Okafor.  He's a quality prospect.  He's a better than any prospect on our team under the age of 24.  He obviously has flaws.  Nobody is disputing that.

And the fact is, we tried trading up for him on draft day 2015, and it was widely reported that we offered a package built around the brooklyn pick for him at the trade deadline.

I get you don't like Okafor.  I get you are in deep denial about was widely reported in February.  That's your problem, not mine.  Get over it.  Starting to think maybe you or one of your friends was one of the guys Okafor allegedly beat up in the Boston bar last year.  The hate you have for him is next-level.  I suggest you e-mail Danny Ainge and beg him to stop making offers for him and stop lashing out at me for speaking the truth.

I can literally write the exact same post back to you.

I get you like Okafor.  I get you are in deep denial about was widely reported in June. 

#1 - I don't "like" Okafor.  I accept that he's a better prospect than any young player on our team under the age of 24.  That makes me "like" him as much as the dozens of other young players who are better prospects than anyone on our team under the age of 24.  The reason why we keep talking about Okafor is because this forum is obsessed with him and people keep starting threads about him.    I'm willing to give my perspective on that.  If this forum was obsessively creating threads about Jabari Parker and people like you were calling Parker "garbage", I'd be quick to correct you on those threads as well.   That doesn't mean I love Jabari Parker. 

#2 - I'm not in deep denial about what was reported in June.  I flat out admitted in this thread that I am well aware that Chad Ford said he thought Okafor wasn't worth a top 5 pick (but presumably was worth a pick in the 6-8 range).  That's the same article Kevin Pelton said Jusuf Nurkic was equal value for the #3 pick.   I'm not in denial about either.  Yes, I agree with you that ESPN writers have varied opinions on the trade value of various players.   Was there any actual reports of Philly trying to trade Okafor on draft night?  I didn't see them.     

#3 - We have made multiple offers for Okafor since he entered the league.  At this point if you don't believe that to be true, you might as well just ignore all media.  It's been widely reported and backed up by numerous sources.   The fact that Ainge offered the Brooklyn pick for a player came directly from Ainge himself.  Bulpett was the one who told us it was Okafor and we have never seen anyone say otherwise.   Go whine to Bulpett if you are upset about his reporting.  Go write angry letters to ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS, NBC, etc and all the many local and national publications who reported what Bulpett wrote without fact-checking.   My assumption is that they did... and nobody from Boston or Philly disputed it - so they continued to credit Bulpett with breaking the factual story.


#4 - I merely brought up the fact Philly turned down our package built around the 2016 Brooklyn pick in February to highlight that I would guess Ainge is less inclined to trade the 2017 Brooklyn pick for him.   Early signs are that 2017 is a much better draft than the 2 player draft that just happened.   WHat happened in the past doesn't really matter.   We reportedly tried trading 8+ picks to move up and take Okafor the night he was drafted... we reportedly tried trading picks in addition to Marcus Smart... that doesn't mean we'd offer that for him now. 

[Eddie20]

Who's being more exposed in this tread, Okafor or LB?

I generally don't disagree with LB as much as you and some others have over the year. We clearly couldn't disagree more on the Okafor stuff. What is funny to me is that LB has decided he is so invested in Okafor being a great player that he is taking positions that put him in a pretty tough space to argue. If you want to hang on to some report from 8 months ago that the Celtics may have been interested in Okafor at that time, fine. However, since then the guy has just gone down hill. This year has been awful for Okafor so far with his numbers down across the board and increasing questions about his fitness and motivation. The reason LB is latching on to some rumor from a Boston beat guy from 8 months ago is because there hasn't been anything positive written about Okafor since then.

To his credit, like the musicians in the Titanic, he goes down with the ship. I think it's pretty clear he's a Sixers fan. Either that, or there is something seriously wrong with the guy. I can't imagine wasting so much time and energy defending a team I don't like. Hopefully for his well being it's the latter.

GO CELTICS !!!

[Clench123]

Yes, yes, and yes.

[kraidstar]

Okafor is one of the least intuitive basketball players i've ever seen. In particular the 3.3 boards in 20.4 minutes is pathetic.

He is good at slow-developing 1-on-1 plays, but the rest of his skills are D-league caliber.

I would be very worried if I was the Sixers. He is young and raw obviously, but not sure he has the mental makeup for the NBA game, he has that glazed, medicated look to him of a guy with limited intensity.

[celticsclay]

Who's being more exposed in this tread, Okafor or LB?

I generally don't disagree with LB as much as you and some others have over the year. We clearly couldn't disagree more on the Okafor stuff. What is funny to me is that LB has decided he is so invested in Okafor being a great player that he is taking positions that put him in a pretty tough space to argue.

Da hell are you talking about? 

I've been clear with my opinion on Okafor.  He's a quality prospect.  He's a better than any prospect on our team under the age of 24.  He obviously has flaws.  Nobody is disputing that.

And the fact is, we tried trading up for him on draft day 2015, and it was widely reported that we offered a package built around the brooklyn pick for him at the trade deadline.

I get you don't like Okafor.  I get you are in deep denial about was widely reported in February.  That's your problem, not mine.  Get over it.  Starting to think maybe you or one of your friends was one of the guys Okafor allegedly beat up in the Boston bar last year.  The hate you have for him is next-level.  I suggest you e-mail Danny Ainge and beg him to stop making offers for him and stop lashing out at me for speaking the truth.

I can literally write the exact same post back to you.

I get you like Okafor.  I get you are in deep denial about was widely reported in June. 

#1 - I don't "like" Okafor.  I accept that he's a better prospect than any young player on our team under the age of 24.  That makes me "like" him as much as the dozens of other young players who are better prospects than anyone on our team under the age of 24.  The reason why we keep talking about Okafor is because this forum is obsessed with him and people keep starting threads about him.    I'm willing to give my perspective on that.  If this forum was obsessively creating threads about Jabari Parker and people like you were calling Parker "garbage", I'd be quick to correct you on those threads as well.   That doesn't mean I love Jabari Parker. 

#2 - I'm not in deep denial about what was reported in June.  I flat out admitted in this thread that I am well aware that Chad Ford said he thought Okafor wasn't worth a top 5 pick (but presumably was worth a pick in the 6-8 range).  That's the same article Kevin Pelton said Jusuf Nurkic was equal value for the #3 pick.   I'm not in denial about either.  Yes, I agree with you that ESPN writers have varied opinions on the trade value of various players.   Was there any actual reports of Philly trying to trade Okafor on draft night?  I didn't see them.     

#3 - We have made multiple offers for Okafor since he entered the league.  At this point if you don't believe that to be true, you might as well just ignore all media.  It's been widely reported and backed up by numerous sources.   The fact that Ainge offered the Brooklyn pick for a player came directly from Ainge himself.  Bulpett was the one who told us it was Okafor and we have never seen anyone say otherwise.   Go whine to Bulpett if you are upset about his reporting.  Go write angry letters to ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS, NBC, etc and all the many local and national publications who reported what Bulpett wrote without fact-checking.   My assumption is that they did... and nobody from Boston or Philly disputed it - so they continued to credit Bulpett with breaking the factual story.


#4 - I merely brought up the fact Philly turned down our package built around the 2016 Brooklyn pick in February to highlight that I would guess Ainge is less inclined to trade the 2017 Brooklyn pick for him.   Early signs are that 2017 is a much better draft than the 2 player draft that just happened.   WHat happened in the past doesn't really matter.   We reportedly tried trading 8+ picks to move up and take Okafor the night he was drafted... we reportedly tried trading picks in addition to Marcus Smart... that doesn't mean we'd offer that for him now.

The issues is that everyone just needs to be consistent. Saying this for like the 5th time this thread. You want to believe rumors and them getting picked up by national publications as talking points? Sure that is fine. It gives us a lot more to talk about. However, you can't just believe the ones that suit your perceptions of a player's value. I believe the Celtics had some type of loose spit balling about Okafor at some point since he was drafted. Do we have any idea what that really was? I don't think so. I believe the 76ers tried to get a top 5 pick in the draft for a package centered around Okafor. Sure. It makes sense given their glut of bigs and having a guard in Dunn that people were getting excited about. Do I know what those deals were either? No.

What we do know is that Okafor has struggled mightily this season. His scoring, rebounding and shooting are down across the board, even if you adjust for him playing less minutes. He is also playing with some better teammates now, so this makes the decrease even more concerning.

Comparing him to Jabari Parker who is having a much stronger season and showing signs of improvement is your standard red herring. I don't believe Okafor is a top prospect and lots of other people don't believe it either. That is really what it comes down to.

You writing that I have an irrational hatred for the guys acts like I am the only one that thinks he is a bad player. I clearly am not. Its also not like I hate him just cause he is on Philly. I really likes Noel and Embiid and am pretty excited about Simmons. I was getting excited about Saric but he has been struggling lately so I need to see more.

[celticsclay]

Okafor is one of the least intuitive basketball players i've ever seen. In particular the 3.3 boards in 20.4 minutes is pathetic.

He is good at slow-developing 1-on-1 plays, but the rest of his skills are D-league caliber.

I would be very worried if I was the Sixers. He is young and raw obviously, but not sure he has the mental makeup for the NBA game, he has that glazed, medicated look to him of a guy with limited intensity.

Lol at "glazed medicated look"

[Moranis]

It isn't that much of a surprise that a guy coming back from injury isn't shooting as well as he was when he was healthy, but what is a bit surprising is Okafor is playing a lot better defense.  He is blocking shots and generating steals at higher rates.  He is turning the ball over at a smaller rate.  I suspect his shooting will come around as he starts to get back into game shape and if he continues the improved defense then he might actually turn into a solid player.  He will never be a great rebounder but he should improve there as well (at least around the TRB% he had last year).

[tazzmaniac]

Okafor is one of the least intuitive basketball players i've ever seen. In particular the 3.3 boards in 20.4 minutes is pathetic.

He is good at slow-developing 1-on-1 plays, but the rest of his skills are D-league caliber.

I would be very worried if I was the Sixers. He is young and raw obviously, but not sure he has the mental makeup for the NBA game, he has that glazed, medicated look to him of a guy with limited intensity.

Posts like yours make the over the top pro Okafor posts seem reasonable.  Okafor averaged 17.5 pts and 7 rebs on 50FG% in his rookie season on a bad team with terrible PG play for much of the season.  He clearly has limitations and areas that need significant development but his skills are definitely not D-league caliber. 

[LarBrd33]

Who's being more exposed in this tread, Okafor or LB?

I generally don't disagree with LB as much as you and some others have over the year. We clearly couldn't disagree more on the Okafor stuff. What is funny to me is that LB has decided he is so invested in Okafor being a great player that he is taking positions that put him in a pretty tough space to argue.

Da hell are you talking about? 

I've been clear with my opinion on Okafor.  He's a quality prospect.  He's a better than any prospect on our team under the age of 24.  He obviously has flaws.  Nobody is disputing that.

And the fact is, we tried trading up for him on draft day 2015, and it was widely reported that we offered a package built around the brooklyn pick for him at the trade deadline.

I get you don't like Okafor.  I get you are in deep denial about was widely reported in February.  That's your problem, not mine.  Get over it.  Starting to think maybe you or one of your friends was one of the guys Okafor allegedly beat up in the Boston bar last year.  The hate you have for him is next-level.  I suggest you e-mail Danny Ainge and beg him to stop making offers for him and stop lashing out at me for speaking the truth.

I can literally write the exact same post back to you.

I get you like Okafor.  I get you are in deep denial about was widely reported in June. 

#1 - I don't "like" Okafor.  I accept that he's a better prospect than any young player on our team under the age of 24.  That makes me "like" him as much as the dozens of other young players who are better prospects than anyone on our team under the age of 24.  The reason why we keep talking about Okafor is because this forum is obsessed with him and people keep starting threads about him.    I'm willing to give my perspective on that.  If this forum was obsessively creating threads about Jabari Parker and people like you were calling Parker "garbage", I'd be quick to correct you on those threads as well.   That doesn't mean I love Jabari Parker. 

#2 - I'm not in deep denial about what was reported in June.  I flat out admitted in this thread that I am well aware that Chad Ford said he thought Okafor wasn't worth a top 5 pick (but presumably was worth a pick in the 6-8 range).  That's the same article Kevin Pelton said Jusuf Nurkic was equal value for the #3 pick.   I'm not in denial about either.  Yes, I agree with you that ESPN writers have varied opinions on the trade value of various players.   Was there any actual reports of Philly trying to trade Okafor on draft night?  I didn't see them.     

#3 - We have made multiple offers for Okafor since he entered the league.  At this point if you don't believe that to be true, you might as well just ignore all media.  It's been widely reported and backed up by numerous sources.   The fact that Ainge offered the Brooklyn pick for a player came directly from Ainge himself.  Bulpett was the one who told us it was Okafor and we have never seen anyone say otherwise.   Go whine to Bulpett if you are upset about his reporting.  Go write angry letters to ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS, NBC, etc and all the many local and national publications who reported what Bulpett wrote without fact-checking.   My assumption is that they did... and nobody from Boston or Philly disputed it - so they continued to credit Bulpett with breaking the factual story.


#4 - I merely brought up the fact Philly turned down our package built around the 2016 Brooklyn pick in February to highlight that I would guess Ainge is less inclined to trade the 2017 Brooklyn pick for him.   Early signs are that 2017 is a much better draft than the 2 player draft that just happened.   WHat happened in the past doesn't really matter.   We reportedly tried trading 8+ picks to move up and take Okafor the night he was drafted... we reportedly tried trading picks in addition to Marcus Smart... that doesn't mean we'd offer that for him now.

The issues is that everyone just needs to be consistent. Saying this for like the 5th time this thread. You want to believe rumors and them getting picked up by national publications as talking points? Sure that is fine. It gives us a lot more to talk about. However, you can't just believe the ones that suit your perceptions of a player's value. I believe the Celtics had some type of loose spit balling about Okafor at some point since he was drafted. Do we have any idea what that really was? I don't think so. I believe the 76ers tried to get a top 5 pick in the draft for a package centered around Okafor. Sure. It makes sense given their glut of bigs and having a guard in Dunn that people were getting excited about. Do I know what those deals were either? No.

What we do know is that Okafor has struggled mightily this season. His scoring, rebounding and shooting are down across the board, even if you adjust for him playing less minutes. He is also playing with some better teammates now, so this makes the decrease even more concerning.

Comparing him to Jabari Parker who is having a much stronger season and showing signs of improvement is your standard red herring. I don't believe Okafor is a top prospect and lots of other people don't believe it either. That is really what it comes down to.

You writing that I have an irrational hatred for the guys acts like I am the only one that thinks he is a bad player. I clearly am not. Its also not like I hate him just cause he is on Philly. I really likes Noel and Embiid and am pretty excited about Simmons. I was getting excited about Saric but he has been struggling lately so I need to see more.

What you're talking about might need a splinter discussion on what qualifies as a "rumor" and what kind of "rumor" I take seriously.  WHile it's true that in the internet age any little dumb rumor will get picked up by multiple blogs, I usually look for the source of rumors and consider them.  I don't take it seriously when some random fan on realgm claims he heard we were trying to get Blake Griffin.  I dont' take it seriously when a clickbait website claims we are trading for Klay Thompson.  I don't take it seriously when some teenager in new Hampshire claims we're trading for kevin love on twitter.   While I think it's worth thinking about when some national media types speculate on a player's trade value, I don't equate Chad Ford with saying "i don't think philly can get a top 5 pick for Okafor" with proof that Philly offered Okafor for a top 5 pick.   

What I do take seriously is when a beat writer or national writer literally flat out says "This trade was close to happening and one of the teams backed out" or "these teams are very close to making this deal".   I dont' need to rehash the details of our February offer for Okafor for you to understand the difference between Kevin Pelton saying "Jusuf Nurkic is equal value for the 3rd pick" and Ainge saying we came close to moving the pick for a player and Bulpett filling us in on who the offer was for.   We certainly know that many fans (yourself included) reacted with disgust to that report... there was certainly a sense of desperation from fans wanting an alternative report.  Fans with their big dreams of guys like Jimmy Butler.  And yet, nobody disputed the report.  Nobody discredited what Bulpett said.  Nobody from either team came out and said the report was false.   

So since it came from Ainge's mouth directly, yes I take it seriously that we came close to moving the Brooklyn pick in a package for a player.  And since nobody disputed Bulpett's details, I tend to believe that as well.   It is what it is.

ANd no, it's not at all different than if people were starting daily threads about Jabari Parker.  Because the same time I was saying "Sure, I'd move the 2016 brooklyn pick for Okafor" I was also saying i would move the 2016 brooklyn pick for Jabari Parker and getting the same disgusted reaction from homers who were underestimating Parker's potential.  Parker is in the process of making a leap now... so it doesn't surprise me that folks like yourself would change their mind on that deal.   I still think Okafor will do the same thing.

[LooseCannon]

#3 - We have made multiple offers for Okafor since he entered the league.  At this point if you don't believe that to be true, you might as well just ignore all media.  It's been widely reported and backed up by numerous sources.   The fact that Ainge offered the Brooklyn pick for a player came directly from Ainge himself.  Bulpett was the one who told us it was Okafor and we have never seen anyone say otherwise.   Go whine to Bulpett if you are upset about his reporting.  Go write angry letters to ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS, NBC, etc and all the many local and national publications who reported what Bulpett wrote without fact-checking.   My assumption is that they did... and nobody from Boston or Philly disputed it - so they continued to credit Bulpett with breaking the factual story.

Zach Lowe and Amin Elhassan said otherwise.  The Sixers denied the rumor.  I assume that Ainge made a lowball offer, but I don't think Okafor fits the kind of player he would overpay for and Ainge spoke about a "big package" and not just the pick.

I suspect one of two things.  Either Ainge was looking at Okafor as a piece in a three-way trade with a team that wanted an established player and not just picks and he was not the main target or Ainge was working on a true surprise like a godfather offer for Durant out of a belief that a short stint with Stevens would convince Durant to re-sign.