Poll

Given what each would cost, and their respective ages/contracts, who would you want?

Andre Drummond
8 (8.3%)
Myles Turner
20 (20.8%)
Clint Capela
4 (4.2%)
Marc Gasol
4 (4.2%)
Hassan Whiteside
1 (1%)
Jusuf Nurkic
6 (6.3%)
Cody Zeller
4 (4.2%)
Derrick Favors
6 (6.3%)
Steven Adams
11 (11.5%)
A Young Guy
0 (0%)
Dwayne Dedmon
5 (5.2%)
Ehhh, none  are worth what it would cost
27 (28.1%)

Total Members Voted: 96

Author Topic: Big Man Options  (Read 70929 times)

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Big Man Options
« on: October 22, 2019, 03:22:26 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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So heading into the season it appears the Celtics major weakness lies at the 5. With that in mind I've combed NBA rosters looking for players who could potentially interest the Celtics. These are a mix of guys some of whom would strictly help this year, and some who could be future building blocks. When compilng this list I left out players that....

a) Were clearly not worth their contract like Biyombo, Dieng, ect.
b) Didnt have a skill set that was really an upgrade on what the Celtics already have.
c) Is a high usage offense first big like Griffin, Love or Aldrige. Not saying these guys arent useful, but I'm focused more on guys who can help without taking shots from Kemba, Tatum and Brown.
d) Was just drafted (Bitadze on Pacers for example)

   If you have guys you'd like to throw out there do so, in general I would prefer a defensive oriented big who offers some rim protection and/or ability to defend guys like Embiid/Giannis. Those guys are hard to find. On offense shooting threes, passing and/or rim running would be useful. 
   These players generally break down into 3 salary categories. High salary guys who would baically require a Gordon Hayward trade, or packaging Smart with Kanter and Theis just to get close. Mid Salary guys who would require either Smart, or a 2/3/4 for 1 trade with Kanter and Theis'  salaries as balast (tradeable Dec 15 I believe). Low salary guys on rookie scale deals, easily matchable.
   For cases where i am including Hayward as salary matching keep in mind there is a huge range of possible Gordon Hayward values by mid season. If he's back to Utah Hawyard some of these deals make more sense or involve us giving up fewer assets to get a guy. If he is what he was last year he is basically just salary fodder in terms of value with us having to give us soemthing just to move his contract. Most likely he is soemwhere in between. If he's good you obviosuly arent trading him for an expiring guy like Gasol or Whiteside for example, but maybe you still would for Myles Turner. If he's bad maybe you want to move off his contract (Player option next year)  and an expiring guy would be fine.
   I know many will object to Hayward being used in a trade, but it seems likely too me given the Jaylen extension that Hayward is likely to be the wing left out long term. You don't give a guy 27 million unless you few him as as foundational peice, and Jaylens age matches better with your 1A guy Tatum. I think Hayward in exchange for a medium to large contract is the easiest way to get our future building block center, because you won't want to resign him given age/luxtury tax/ positional overlap concerns but you also don't want to lose his money as a trade matching peice by letting him walk. The only other big(ish) money guy you cold use would be Smart, but given his skill set is so tailored to being an elite role player and he is cost controlled the next three years Hayward seems more likely to be moved.
   I'd aso avoid giving up the MEM pick in any of these deals, thats the C's last big chip and should be reserved for either drafting a stud or getting a true star. We have our own picks moving forward, young guys like G Will, R Will, Carsen, Langford, Semi, MIL pick as trade pieces.

My Central Point is This: To maximize the talent on the roster it may be best to trade Hayward for a big (of course he could be amazing this year and make this thread look stupid). Here are some options:

Steven Adams (25.84)(27.53)

Steve adams is only 26, and is under contrct for his age 27 year as well. Less than a year older than Marcus means he can be part of the core, his next contract will begin at age 28. He is solid all around, an excellent rebonder and post defender who wont get killed on switches. Doesn't put up huge block numbers. On offense is zero threat from 3 (07 for his career) but actually decent from the 3-16 foot area at around 47%, so not a complete spacing cramper. Seems like a guy Celtics fans would love FWIW. OKC rebuilding so if we offered Hayward/picks/young guys might intrigue them since both hayward and Adams have two years left.

Andre Adrummond (27.09)0(28.75PO)
 
Huge rebounder, gets steals and blocks althugh some quetsion his actual impact on defense. No shoooting touch at all (poor FT shooter). Can disrupt offense by demanding post touches when he should just be a rim runner. I wonder if Brad could work some wonders on the defensive end with this guy given his raw talent on that end. If detroit is bad mid seaosn maybe they decide to blow it up. Hayward would need to be included for salary matching purposes, then probably young guys/picks.

Dwayne Demon (13.33) (13.33) (13.33NG)

Protects the rim, can stretch to 3. Just a god system fit. Alreayd 30 so not a long term peice probably. If Kings underwhlem might be available, could probably math salatry without including Smart. Seems solid, third year unguaranteed on his contract.

Marc Gasol (25.59)

Basically perfect skill set for us, alot like Horford in that he can check Embiid, shoot threes and pass. Is old, so not a long term guy and maybe you run into same issue next summer as with horford where you don't wnat to give him long term contract.  Given the last trade he was a part of can't imagin price would be huge. Probably hayward and a pick. Not clear TOR would want to trade him tho.

Hassan Whiteside (27.09)

Expiring contract on team where starting center could return by aroun trade deadline making him expendable. Would require Hayward but maybe notihng else or even asset(s) back to us if Hayward is good. Not a huge fan, empty stats guy. Defense much degraded froom peak imo. Potential chemistry issue.

Clint Capela (14.89)(16.0)(17.1)(18.2)

Basically kind of what we want Robert Williams to become. Excellent rim runner, can switch (well, not against KD but who can?). May not be best for bagning with Embiid/Giannis typees. Can probably match salary without Smart with Kanter/Theis. Could offer cheap rookie scle depth peices like G Will, Semi, R Will that woudl intrigue houston who is shallow in depth. Length of contract means he coud be useful in salary matching for a satr down the line or be a long term piece.

Cody Zeller (14.5)(15.4)

Sets good creens, good positional defense, unselfish player. Not great at anything, good at a few things. Middle of the road starter. Not gonna excite anybody for sure, probably not worth the player you'd have to include to match salary for him. Pass.

Myles Turner (17.5)(17.5)(17.5)(17.5)

With Sabonis signed and Bitadze drafted might be the odd man out long teerm. Much imporved defendr last year (2.7 block a game!), and can stretch the floor a bit (38% on 2.6 a game). Salary is totaly reasonable, locked up long term and is young. Would require sedning Gordon Hayward (and picks/young guys) and taking back additional salary from pacers, or sending Smart and picks/young guys. Probably the idela ong term fit for our needs.

Derrick Favors (16.0)

Excellenet defesive big, has been rumored to be looking to add the three to his game. Expiring contract. Wouldnt want to give up Smart for him, but his salalry makes it hard to do without like a 4 for one and the Pels are deep enough that its a hard sell (they'd have to cut guys they may like). Hard to find a deal that works really. Hayward would require them sending us somebody else, probably Reddick or Ingram which I don't think they'd do.

Jusuf Nurkic (12.0)(12.9)(12.0/4G)

Gonna be hoonest, haven't seen him pay really at all due to him being out west, but seems to have an intriguing set of skills from what I've heard. Coming off huge injury but sallary is a bargain for the two years afteer this one, so far is this year is a "lost" year. This is a case where its more likely to happen if A) Whitesdie looks good and B) Hayward also looks good. Portland could say "well we need wing size to matchup with the west, whiteside has held down the center position lets gamble." We would open up the wing for Jaylen/Tatum while getting a bargain center.
 
Wendell Carter (5.45)(6.92)
Mohamed Bamba (5.70)(5.97)(7.57)

These last two guys are rookie scale guys who have skill sets that might be intriguing  to the Celtics given their skill sets (rim proection from Bamba, poor man's Horford from Carter). Not likely that their teams would wnat to trade them but guys to ask about.

Re: Big Man Options
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2019, 03:38:17 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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I guess the key here is Hayward. I think a Hayward for Turner swap makes a lot of sense for both Indy and Boston. I like Adams as a player too but not really a huge fan of his price tag.

Re: Big Man Options
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2019, 04:16:53 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I don't think any are likely to be worth the cost this season.


I would say the plan for the 4/5 moving forward should be to continue the method Danny has been using to find rotation-caliber bigs (late 1st round, unheralded Euro vets, flawed castoffs from other teams), and hope one of them turns out to be a diamond in the rough at an extremely affordable price.


The Celts have too much invested cap-wise and roster-wise into the guards / wings to really go after a major piece to play the 5.  Given the way Brad has the team play, it wouldn't really make sense to worry too much about the 5, anyway, unless the Celts have the chance to add a versatile, elite two-way big (like Horford circa 2017).
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Re: Big Man Options
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 04:27:44 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I guess the key here is Hayward. I think a Hayward for Turner swap makes a lot of sense for both Indy and Boston. I like Adams as a player too but not really a huge fan of his price tag.
Why does it makes sense for Indy to trade a good young player on a good long term contract for a player soon to be 30 who hasn't performed to his pre-injury level and who is on a 1+1 (32.7M and 34.4M)?  If Hayward returns to being Utah Hayward, he'll opt out and they'll lose him or have to overpay to keep him.  If not, he'll opt in and be overpaid. 

Re: Big Man Options
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2019, 04:36:53 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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I guess the key here is Hayward. I think a Hayward for Turner swap makes a lot of sense for both Indy and Boston. I like Adams as a player too but not really a huge fan of his price tag.
Why does it makes sense for Indy to trade a good young player on a good long term contract for a player soon to be 30 who hasn't performed to his pre-injury level and who is on a 1+1 (32.7M and 34.4M)?  If Hayward returns to being Utah Hayward, he'll opt out and they'll lose him or have to overpay to keep him.  If not, he'll opt in and be overpaid.

Thats kind of the point of this thread. If Hayward is playing well this year maybe you are better off trading him for a big man who may not be as good as Hayward in a vacuum but makes more sense for the team and who has potential to be a longer term piece.

This thread is also meant to illustrate the point thats its hard to find a big that is A) Available and B) Makes sense n this team.

From that perspective cobbling together salary for say Dwayne Dedmon  who provides some two way ability might make sense.

But the reason Indy might think about it is if it just turns out that Turner/Sabonis can't play together. If Hayward looks like an all star then you make the swap because they wont otherwise have cap space to sign him if he opts out this summer, and a Oladpio (helathy), Hayward (healthy), Brogdon, Sabonis team could be really good. Not saying its likely, just possible. 

Re: Big Man Options
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2019, 04:38:07 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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I guess the key here is Hayward. I think a Hayward for Turner swap makes a lot of sense for both Indy and Boston. I like Adams as a player too but not really a huge fan of his price tag.
Why does it makes sense for Indy to trade a good young player on a good long term contract for a player soon to be 30 who hasn't performed to his pre-injury level and who is on a 1+1 (32.7M and 34.4M)?  If Hayward returns to being Utah Hayward, he'll opt out and they'll lose him or have to overpay to keep him.  If not, he'll opt in and be overpaid.

I was thinking along the lines of to pair an all star caliber wing (who is a hometown guy) with Oladipo. Indy just gave money to Sabonis as well yesterday. Oladipo is also a FA after the 20-21 season.

Re: Big Man Options
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2019, 04:56:38 PM »

Online Who

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I guess the key here is Hayward. I think a Hayward for Turner swap makes a lot of sense for both Indy and Boston. I like Adams as a player too but not really a huge fan of his price tag.
Why does it makes sense for Indy to trade a good young player on a good long term contract for a player soon to be 30 who hasn't performed to his pre-injury level and who is on a 1+1 (32.7M and 34.4M)?  If Hayward returns to being Utah Hayward, he'll opt out and they'll lose him or have to overpay to keep him.  If not, he'll opt in and be overpaid.

I was thinking along the lines of to pair an all star caliber wing (who is a hometown guy) with Oladipo. Indy just gave money to Sabonis as well yesterday. Oladipo is also a FA after the 20-21 season.

Hayward (SF), Oladipo (SG) and Brogdon (PG) would be a very nice perimeter trio to build your team around. I like that idea for Indiana.

Re: Big Man Options
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2019, 05:16:08 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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If we are trading for gasol why don’t we request Toronto to bundle him with Ibaka?
We will need one or two smaller contracts to make it work plus one or two picks but I think it is worth it:
-Almost guarantees we will be better than Toronto this year hence first round playoffs home court ...
-we don’t have to watch Danny screw up two more picks in the 10-30 range ... I’m sick of his drafting in that part of the draft.

We are also missing championship experience on the team and those two big guys bring that with them

Re: Big Man Options
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2019, 05:29:27 PM »

Offline td450

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Turner or Wendell Carter, but I can't see a path to get either.

I think our best bet is for Robert Williams to settle into becoming a player. He's got a long way to go but he has unlimited athleticism and his passing seems to be something to build on.

Re: Big Man Options
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2019, 05:50:43 PM »

Offline footey

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We have 4 5s. Dont need any more.

Re: Big Man Options
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2019, 05:53:15 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I’m personally looking forward to the Celtics big-man-by-committee approach this year.  They have a lot of bigs with different strengths and weaknesses, and I think Stevens will be able to use those different matchups to his advantage.  It’s a wings and guards league, so unless you have a truly elite center, salary resources are best not spent on bigs, and instead spent elsewhere, while treating centers as complimentary pieces.

Re: Big Man Options
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2019, 06:02:27 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I like the options we have.

 Play Theis against faster bigs/defensive bigs. He isnt a horrible shooter so he can draw guys out. He can also exploit guys in pick and roll/pop. Think Theis vs Bam, Allen or Drummond, etc.

Play Kanter against offensive bigs you need to put pressure on to wear down and possibly get them into foul. Think Embid,  Turner and Len, etc.

Play VP against bigger centers. Gasol, and Lopez brothers, etc.

Despite the general view that we need a a good big man I feel we have three plus Tacko. So long as BS uses them correctly and keeps each fresh we as a team can really do well.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 06:12:41 PM by Csfan1984 »

Re: Big Man Options
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2019, 06:30:20 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I don't see any of those guys walking through the door and Ainge will sit pat on our team as he usually does.   Does anyone think we are but one piece away from contending?

Re: Big Man Options
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2019, 06:43:02 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I don't see any of those guys walking through the door and Ainge will sit pat on our team as he usually does.   Does anyone think we are but one piece away from contending?

I don't thinkso, but that has a lot to do with unknown growth in the Jays and Gordon, the impact of Kemba and the contributions of Rookies and Bob.  I think as others that size is the known variable -- or at least the most predictable area of need.  If all the variables shake out positively, I do think the C's could be one piece away.  Unlikely, but there's reason for some hope.

Re: Big Man Options
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2019, 07:05:30 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Would have loved for us to somehow get Favors.

Anyone else shocked Faried is still a free agent? In Houston he averaged 13/8 in under 25MPG
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