Patriots 2023 Season

[kraidstar]

It’s super weird to read people thinking they know enough about bill and Brady to comment on his legacy but seemingly are completely in the dark that the defense won multiple super bowls. Brady was average at best against the rams the first time and scored a whopping touchdown the second rams Super Bowl. Like seriously stop

If you are young read this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVI

This game would have been win with Ryan leaf and Brady had similar stats to what leaf or zolack would have done. Have some knowledge of the game

Ryan Leaf would not have beaten either Rams team. He would have thrown 4 INTs, taken some bad sacks, and we'd have been blown out.

Nor would he have outscored Mahomes in the AFCCG before that second Rams SB.

Belichick deserves credit for putting together some excellent defenses (though those early Pats SB teams had a lot of Parcells/Caroll holdovers). He also deserves credit for NOT losing games. Loads of coaches actively sabotage their own teams in big games. Not Bill.

BUT he'd have been fired decades ago if he hadn't found Brady. Another losing season or two with Bledsoe would have sealed it. That's just the reality of how this league works.

[Moranis]

It’s super weird to read people thinking they know enough about bill and Brady to comment on his legacy but seemingly are completely in the dark that the defense won multiple super bowls. Brady was average at best against the rams the first time and scored a whopping touchdown the second rams Super Bowl. Like seriously stop

If you are young read this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVI

This game would have been win with Ryan leaf and Brady had similar stats to what leaf or zolack would have done. Have some knowledge of the game

Ryan Leaf would not have beaten either Rams team. He would have thrown 4 INTs, taken some bad sacks, and we'd have been blown out.

Nor would he have outscored Mahomes in the AFCCG before that second Rams SB.

Belichick deserves credit for putting together some excellent defenses (though those early Pats SB teams had a lot of Parcells/Caroll holdovers). He also deserves credit for NOT losing games. Loads of coaches actively sabotage their own teams in big games. Not Bill.

BUT he'd have been fired decades ago if he hadn't found Brady. Another losing season or two with Bledsoe would have sealed it. That's just the reality of how this league works.

Obviously the Patriots had an excellent defense and on the surface Brady's 145 yards doesn't stand out, but when the Pats needed a score, Brady marched the Patriots down the field starting on their own 17 yard line with a minute and a half left in the game.  Drives them down, FG, game over.  And it was that Patriots defense that blew a 17-3 lead entering the 4th quarter.  Bill just kept running the ball and going 3 and out which didn't help, but with the game on the line Brady stepped up and dominated.  Like Brady always does. 

[Neurotic Guy]

There was a perfect storm in the pairing of Brady and Belichick.  People can believe what they want, but that’s what I believe. Not sure (obviously) how many SBs either would have won or played in without the other, but I’ll always believe it wouldn’t have been 6 and 9.   

[celticsclay]

It’s super weird to read people thinking they know enough about bill and Brady to comment on his legacy but seemingly are completely in the dark that the defense won multiple super bowls. Brady was average at best against the rams the first time and scored a whopping touchdown the second rams Super Bowl. Like seriously stop

If you are young read this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVI

This game would have been win with Ryan leaf and Brady had similar stats to what leaf or zolack would have done. Have some knowledge of the game

Ryan Leaf would not have beaten either Rams team. He would have thrown 4 INTs, taken some bad sacks, and we'd have been blown out.

Nor would he have outscored Mahomes in the AFCCG before that second Rams SB.

Belichick deserves credit for putting together some excellent defenses (though those early Pats SB teams had a lot of Parcells/Caroll holdovers). He also deserves credit for NOT losing games. Loads of coaches actively sabotage their own teams in big games. Not Bill.

BUT he'd have been fired decades ago if he hadn't found Brady. Another losing season or two with Bledsoe would have sealed it. That's just the reality of how this league works.

I mean Bledsoe would have won that Super Bowl. That was a total defensive Super Bowl with an awful offense. Just look at the box score. I understand bill can be prickly but people look pretty foolish trying to strip away all his accomplishments.

[celticsclay]

It’s super weird to read people thinking they know enough about bill and Brady to comment on his legacy but seemingly are completely in the dark that the defense won multiple super bowls. Brady was average at best against the rams the first time and scored a whopping touchdown the second rams Super Bowl. Like seriously stop

If you are young read this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVI

This game would have been win with Ryan leaf and Brady had similar stats to what leaf or zolack would have done. Have some knowledge of the game

Ryan Leaf would not have beaten either Rams team. He would have thrown 4 INTs, taken some bad sacks, and we'd have been blown out.

Nor would he have outscored Mahomes in the AFCCG before that second Rams SB.

Belichick deserves credit for putting together some excellent defenses (though those early Pats SB teams had a lot of Parcells/Caroll holdovers). He also deserves credit for NOT losing games. Loads of coaches actively sabotage their own teams in big games. Not Bill.

BUT he'd have been fired decades ago if he hadn't found Brady. Another losing season or two with Bledsoe would have sealed it. That's just the reality of how this league works.

Obviously the Patriots had an excellent defense and on the surface Brady's 145 yards doesn't stand out, but when the Pats needed a score, Brady marched the Patriots down the field starting on their own 17 yard line with a minute and a half left in the game.  Drives them down, FG, game over.  And it was that Patriots defense that blew a 17-3 lead entering the 4th quarter.  Bill just kept running the ball and going 3 and out which didn't help, but with the game on the line Brady stepped up and dominated.  Like Brady always does.

Ironically the 145 yards DOES stand out for how crazy it is to win a Super Bowl with that poor a passing attack. Believe it was the 4th lowest of 2000’s and 2nd or 3rd lowest for a winning qb. Incredible defensive, coaching and special teams game

[Moranis]

Bill is a conservative defensive coach and always has been.  He is perhaps the best defensive coach ever, but his style has always been run the ball, manage the clock, and rely on the defense to get a stop when needed.  It was only Brady's shear greatness coupled with Moss that allowed for a more pass heavy attack for a few seasons, but otherwise, hand the ball off and get out of the way.  I mean at 44 in Tampa Tom set several of his own personal records passing the ball.

And while that style worked great in the early 2000's, it is a relic that I just don't think will work in the modern game.

[Goldstar88]

Bill is a conservative defensive coach and always has been.  He is perhaps the best defensive coach ever, but his style has always been run the ball, manage the clock, and rely on the defense to get a stop when needed.  It was only Brady's shear greatness coupled with Moss that allowed for a more pass heavy attack for a few seasons, but otherwise, hand the ball off and get out of the way.  I mean at 44 in Tampa Tom set several of his own personal records passing the ball.

And while that style worked great in the early 2000's, it is a relic that I just don't think will work in the modern game.

Agreed. This is pretty much spot on.

[Neurotic Guy]

Bill is a conservative defensive coach and always has been.  He is perhaps the best defensive coach ever, but his style has always been run the ball, manage the clock, and rely on the defense to get a stop when needed.  It was only Brady's shear greatness coupled with Moss that allowed for a more pass heavy attack for a few seasons, but otherwise, hand the ball off and get out of the way.  I mean at 44 in Tampa Tom set several of his own personal records passing the ball.

And while that style worked great in the early 2000's, it is a relic that I just don't think will work in the modern game.

I do hear what you’re saying, but ending your career with more than 89,000 passing yards (most ever) does indicate that you threw the ball… a lot.

Drew Brees (20 seasons) is #2 at around 80,000 - just about 5,000 more than Brady’s 20 seasons with the Pats.

Peyton Manning #3 at 72,000. 18 seasons.

[BitterJim]

Bill is a conservative defensive coach and always has been.  He is perhaps the best defensive coach ever, but his style has always been run the ball, manage the clock, and rely on the defense to get a stop when needed.  It was only Brady's shear greatness coupled with Moss that allowed for a more pass heavy attack for a few seasons, but otherwise, hand the ball off and get out of the way.  I mean at 44 in Tampa Tom set several of his own personal records passing the ball.

And while that style worked great in the early 2000's, it is a relic that I just don't think will work in the modern game.

You mean 2021, when they started doing 17 game seasons?

To win in football, you either need to do what everyone else does better (which today means having a top 5 QB, at minimum), or zig when everyone else zags. Betting on defense might not work out, but going all in on offense without a Mahomes or Brady-level QB is basically guaranteed not to work

[Goldstar88]

Bill is a conservative defensive coach and always has been.  He is perhaps the best defensive coach ever, but his style has always been run the ball, manage the clock, and rely on the defense to get a stop when needed.  It was only Brady's shear greatness coupled with Moss that allowed for a more pass heavy attack for a few seasons, but otherwise, hand the ball off and get out of the way.  I mean at 44 in Tampa Tom set several of his own personal records passing the ball.

And while that style worked great in the early 2000's, it is a relic that I just don't think will work in the modern game.

You mean 2021, when they started doing 17 game seasons?

To win in football, you either need to do what everyone else does better (which today means having a top 5 QB, at minimum), or zig when everyone else zags. Betting on defense might not work out, but going all in on offense without a Mahomes or Brady-level QB is basically guaranteed not to work

Rams won it all the season before last with Stafford at QB. McVay also made it to the SB with Goff in 2019. You don’t need a top 5 QB to win.

[celticsclay]

Bill is a conservative defensive coach and always has been.  He is perhaps the best defensive coach ever, but his style has always been run the ball, manage the clock, and rely on the defense to get a stop when needed.  It was only Brady's shear greatness coupled with Moss that allowed for a more pass heavy attack for a few seasons, but otherwise, hand the ball off and get out of the way.  I mean at 44 in Tampa Tom set several of his own personal records passing the ball.

And while that style worked great in the early 2000's, it is a relic that I just don't think will work in the modern game.

You mean 2021, when they started doing 17 game seasons?

To win in football, you either need to do what everyone else does better (which today means having a top 5 QB, at minimum), or zig when everyone else zags. Betting on defense might not work out, but going all in on offense without a Mahomes or Brady-level QB is basically guaranteed not to work

Yeah I hope when discussing nfl records here we have smart enough posters that we don’t starting seeing Derek carr is the 8th best qb of all time cause he plays in an era of video game numbers and 17 game seasons and extra playoff games. Let’s do that at a minimum. Brady was not at his best at 44 in any way you look at it. That is pretty clearly total nonsense

[Moranis]

Bill is a conservative defensive coach and always has been.  He is perhaps the best defensive coach ever, but his style has always been run the ball, manage the clock, and rely on the defense to get a stop when needed.  It was only Brady's shear greatness coupled with Moss that allowed for a more pass heavy attack for a few seasons, but otherwise, hand the ball off and get out of the way.  I mean at 44 in Tampa Tom set several of his own personal records passing the ball.

And while that style worked great in the early 2000's, it is a relic that I just don't think will work in the modern game.

You mean 2021, when they started doing 17 game seasons?

To win in football, you either need to do what everyone else does better (which today means having a top 5 QB, at minimum), or zig when everyone else zags. Betting on defense might not work out, but going all in on offense without a Mahomes or Brady-level QB is basically guaranteed not to work

I meant things like most completions in a game, most attempts and completions per game on a season (though the latter 2 he broke again at age 45).  Not the totals, he was only 2nd in yards per game in his carerr that year despite having the most total yards because of the extra game.

He was 44 years old and well past his prime though.  He went to a much less conservative offense.  That is one of the reasons, I think he left.  He was tired of playing old school football.  He was over 30 yards a game more his 3 years in Tampa than he averaged in NE with 3% better pass completion, a better passer rating, etc.  All of that in his 21st, 22nd, and 23rd year.  Guys are supposed to get worse at the end, not better (or stay the same). 

[green_bballers13]

I pay little attention to the NFL anymore other than to see how Bama players are doing.  However isn't Belichick also the GM so that 20M would cover both jobs?  7-9, 10-7 and 8-9 is not bad after losing Brady albeit the NFL is geared towards parity and mediocrity.

While it's tough to stomach these seasons after their unprecedented run, I agree. Last year's team was brutal. They could have won 3 games and no one would have been surprised given their talent level. There were some that thought this was a 6 win team at best.

Given the legacy I have to wonder why he’d pass up Hopkins and why he’d go into this season not having addressed the O-line. Seems like at least one or the other - get the available #1 receiver or trade some draft capital to protect Mac.  Really baffling as this team doesn’t look too bad if they can give Mac time to throw. Hopkins would have put the receiving corps over the top - would have been a very good crew instead of a decent one.

Hopkins might be the most famous "non-practicer" in the NFL. Belichick is notorious for rushing guys back to the field when they are hurt. This might be the worst combination of a player and a coach in the league. It was a complete non-starter.

[green_bballers13]

Bill is a conservative defensive coach and always has been.  He is perhaps the best defensive coach ever, but his style has always been run the ball, manage the clock, and rely on the defense to get a stop when needed.  It was only Brady's shear greatness coupled with Moss that allowed for a more pass heavy attack for a few seasons, but otherwise, hand the ball off and get out of the way.  I mean at 44 in Tampa Tom set several of his own personal records passing the ball.

And while that style worked great in the early 2000's, it is a relic that I just don't think will work in the modern game.

This actually isn't true. For over a decade, the Patriots used the short pass as an effective way to keep the defense honest. It became a later trend (think Jonas Gray and Sony Michel) that the Patriots started pounding the ball. Yes, they had Antowain Smith and Corey Dillon. The 21st century Patriots offense is known for the dink and dunk.

[Moranis]

Bill is a conservative defensive coach and always has been.  He is perhaps the best defensive coach ever, but his style has always been run the ball, manage the clock, and rely on the defense to get a stop when needed.  It was only Brady's shear greatness coupled with Moss that allowed for a more pass heavy attack for a few seasons, but otherwise, hand the ball off and get out of the way.  I mean at 44 in Tampa Tom set several of his own personal records passing the ball.

And while that style worked great in the early 2000's, it is a relic that I just don't think will work in the modern game.

This actually isn't true. For over a decade, the Patriots used the short pass as an effective way to keep the defense honest. It became a later trend (think Jonas Gray and Sony Michel) that the Patriots started pounding the ball. Yes, they had Antowain Smith and Corey Dillon. The 21st century Patriots offense is known for the dink and dunk.

Even in the 16-0 season the Pats still had the 9th most rushing attempts, the year after they were 4th. Brady's 5200 season they dropped back to 17th, but were 2nd in 2012 when Brady had 4800 yards.  The Pats ran the ball a lot during Brady's prime