CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics History => Topic started by: Maurice98 on July 18, 2016, 04:03:52 PM
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Obviously, even though I am very young, we all know who was the best big man defender on the Celtics of all time(Mr. Russell). But I found out that there has been many good perimeter defenders on the Celtics but I am struggling to find a clear cut one. Who you got? If I'm forced to choose, I would say DJ.
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Of players I've watched enough of to comment on: (so no DJ, Hondo, or anyone pre-90s)
Tony Allen, and its not that close between him and Avery Bradley.
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That is a very good question. My brain is having a hard time with the data on this
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Of players I've watched enough of to comment on: (so no DJ, Hondo, or anyone pre-90s)
Tony Allen, and its not that close between him and Avery Bradley.
Oh of course I forgot about TA. But don't you think that he became the defenders he is when he joined the Grizzlies. He started to be on the All-Defensive teams from the year 2011, when he left us.
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I think defenders today are actually much more impressive than defenders in the past. Playing defense is a lot easier when you can hand check, grab and pull jersey with impunity like the rules allowed for in the past.
Due to this I'd say it has to be Bradley, Smart or Allen.
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The Glove.
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Really, really, really good question.
Hmmm...
Gotta be Havlicek.
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Other candidates:
Satch Sanders
Don Chaney
Larry Bird! (If counted as a SF)
Rajon Rondo (Don't be a hater, lol)
Bruce Bowen count? (Career high in steals here!)
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Really, really, really good question.
Hmmm...
Gotta be Havlicek.
TP. No question it's Havlicek
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I put Dennis Johnson ... but honestly, Marcus Smart is already making quite a case.
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Hondo was the best I ever saw
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Other candidates:
Satch Sanders
Don Chaney
Larry Bird! (If counted as a SF)
Rajon Rondo (Don't be a hater, lol)
Bruce Bowen count? (Career high in steals here!)
I agree with most of those names and no I don't hate Rondo lol. However I would not count Bruce Bowen or even GP because they didn't play for the Cs for that much.
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By the way, Reggie Lewis was no slouch either, just ask Michael Jordan.
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I put Dennis Johnson ... but honestly, Marcus Smart has already making quite a case.
I don't have any doubts in Marcus being one of the best perimeter defenders of all time in the future, but now he only played for 2 years, albeit two of the best rookie defensive years I've ever seen out of a guard. Also Marcus has to be one of the best post defenders for a guard, this guys can do it all in the post defensively now I am waiting for the other end in the post.
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By the way, Reggie Lewis was no slouch either, just ask Michael Jordan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7t4swtdYw
In that game, I bet he frustrated Jordan like nobody ever did except for the Bad Boy Pistons and the '86 Celtics where he scored 63 and he still lost.
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Hondo was All-Defense 8 times.
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Of players I've watched enough of to comment on: (so no DJ, Hondo, or anyone pre-90s)
Tony Allen, and its not that close between him and Avery Bradley.
Oh of course I forgot about TA. But don't you think that he became the defenders he is when he joined the Grizzlies. He started to be on the All-Defensive teams from the year 2011, when he left us.
No, because he definitely showed flashes of his defense from time to time. Doc just didn't play him that much and he was frequently injured too while playing for the Celtics.
I remember Tony playing incredible defense on Kobe in the Finals back in 2010 (it still hurts thinking about it :'(). Easily one of the best defensive performances that I've seen from a player in a 7-game series.
Through 4 games Tony managed to hold Kobe to 26,6 percent shooting (5-19 FG). I was bummed to see him go after such a performance.
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I've only been watching since 1984 but for me it's definitely between Tony Allen and bradley. I love dj but guys didn't play d like they do now. It's like night and day.
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Rondo in limited years was great.
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I vote Tony Allen, because I didn't really see Havlicek play.
TA took on the best perimeter players of the opposing teams, and made it a nightmare for them.
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Of players I've watched enough of to comment on: (so no DJ, Hondo, or anyone pre-90s)
Tony Allen, and its not that close between him and Avery Bradley.
Oh of course I forgot about TA. But don't you think that he became the defenders he is when he joined the Grizzlies. He started to be on the All-Defensive teams from the year 2011, when he left us.
No, because he definitely showed flashes of his defense from time to time. Doc just didn't play him that much and he was frequently injured too while playing for the Celtics.
I remember Tony playing incredible defense on Kobe in the Finals back in 2010 (it still hurts thinking about it :'(). Easily one of the best defensive performances that I've seen from a player in a 7-game series.
Through 4 games Tony managed to hold Kobe to 26,6 percent shooting (5-19 FG). I was bummed to see him go after such a performance.
TP.
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Bowen was barely a Celtic and I'll never give him credit. Faking your gonna potentially break a shooter's ankle is as cowardly as it gets. Dude is a straight up coward. My most hated player in nba history. I've never seen that kind of wimpy dirtiness.
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Of players I've watched enough of to comment on: (so no DJ, Hondo, or anyone pre-90s)
Tony Allen, and its not that close between him and Avery Bradley.
Oh of course I forgot about TA. But don't you think that he became the defenders he is when he joined the Grizzlies. He started to be on the All-Defensive teams from the year 2011, when he left us.
No because he definitely showed flashes of his defense from time to time. Doc just didn't play him that much and he was frequently injured too while playing for the Celtics.
I remember Tony playing incredible defense on Kobe in the Finals back in 2010 (it still hurts thinking about it :'(). Easily one of best defensive performances that I've seen from a player in a 7-game series.
Through 4 games Tony managed to hold Kobe to 26,6 percent shooting (5-19 FG). I was bummed to see him go after such a performance.
You should have seen Hondo against Dr. J in the 1977 Eastern Conference Semi Finals.
In game 6, a 37 year old Havlicek played 48 minutes, scored 25 points and held a primetime Dr.J to 14 points on 7 of 20 shooting.
In game 7, Dr.J had 14 points on 6 of 19 shooting.
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It's tough to compare eras. I just saw an old 80's game and the guards are giving their man an incredible amount of space. It was shocking.
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Of players I've watched enough of to comment on: (so no DJ, Hondo, or anyone pre-90s)
Tony Allen, and its not that close between him and Avery Bradley.
Oh of course I forgot about TA. But don't you think that he became the defenders he is when he joined the Grizzlies. He started to be on the All-Defensive teams from the year 2011, when he left us.
No because he definitely showed flashes of his defense from time to time. Doc just didn't play him that much and he was frequently injured too while playing for the Celtics.
I remember Tony playing incredible defense on Kobe in the Finals back in 2010 (it still hurts thinking about it :'(). Easily one of best defensive performances that I've seen from a player in a 7-game series.
Through 4 games Tony managed to hold Kobe to 26,6 percent shooting (5-19 FG). I was bummed to see him go after such a performance.
You should have seen Hondo against Dr. J in the 1977 Eastern Conference Semi Finals.
In game 6, a 37 year old Havlicek played 48 minutes, scored 25 points and held a primetime Dr.J to 14 points on 7 of 20 shooting.
In game 7, Dr.J had 14 points on 6 of 19 shooting.
That's great. I've never liked Dr. J. All because of the fight with Larry. I always wanted Larry to kick his butt while he wasn't being strangled by another 76er.
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I can still see DJ crouching down and being pesky with his hands. What a great player. I only saw the end of Hondo. Tony, Marcus and Avery are great too but I've got to pick DJ.
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The Glove.
The Glove came too late.
I forget he even played for us...
I'm going with Salmon and Massed Potatoes!
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Of players I've watched enough of to comment on: (so no DJ, Hondo, or anyone pre-90s)
Tony Allen, and its not that close between him and Avery Bradley.
Oh of course I forgot about TA. But don't you think that he became the defenders he is when he joined the Grizzlies. He started to be on the All-Defensive teams from the year 2011, when he left us.
No because he definitely showed flashes of his defense from time to time. Doc just didn't play him that much and he was frequently injured too while playing for the Celtics.
I remember Tony playing incredible defense on Kobe in the Finals back in 2010 (it still hurts thinking about it :'(). Easily one of best defensive performances that I've seen from a player in a 7-game series.
Through 4 games Tony managed to hold Kobe to 26,6 percent shooting (5-19 FG). I was bummed to see him go after such a performance.
You should have seen Hondo against Dr. J in the 1977 Eastern Conference Semi Finals.
In game 6, a 37 year old Havlicek played 48 minutes, scored 25 points and held a primetime Dr.J to 14 points on 7 of 20 shooting.
In game 7, Dr.J had 14 points on 6 of 19 shooting.
That's great. I've never liked Dr. J. All because of the fight with Larry. I always wanted Larry to kick his butt while he wasn't being strangled by another 76er.
Holy mother of god, Hondo was incredible!
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Of players I've watched enough of to comment on: (so no DJ, Hondo, or anyone pre-90s)
Tony Allen, and its not that close between him and Avery Bradley.
Oh of course I forgot about TA. But don't you think that he became the defenders he is when he joined the Grizzlies. He started to be on the All-Defensive teams from the year 2011, when he left us.
No because he definitely showed flashes of his defense from time to time. Doc just didn't play him that much and he was frequently injured too while playing for the Celtics.
I remember Tony playing incredible defense on Kobe in the Finals back in 2010 (it still hurts thinking about it :'(). Easily one of best defensive performances that I've seen from a player in a 7-game series.
Through 4 games Tony managed to hold Kobe to 26,6 percent shooting (5-19 FG). I was bummed to see him go after such a performance.
You should have seen Hondo against Dr. J in the 1977 Eastern Conference Semi Finals.
In game 6, a 37 year old Havlicek played 48 minutes, scored 25 points and held a primetime Dr.J to 14 points on 7 of 20 shooting.
In game 7, Dr.J had 14 points on 6 of 19 shooting.
That's great. I've never liked Dr. J. All because of the fight with Larry. I always wanted Larry to kick his butt while he wasn't being strangled by another 76er.
Holy mother of god, Hondo was incredible!
In two playoff games where the Celtics were completely outmanned, an ancient John Havlicek shut down one of the greatest players of all time. It's a great memory.
I think the Perfessor should chime in on this one.
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Easily TA
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Hondo / Rondo ( young Rondo when he played D .....he was pretty decent)
TA was top defender .
I bet Tommy was pretty hard nose. .....before my time .....just speculation
AB / Smart are hot on their heels .
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Smartif he plays with us for 10 years. Honorable mention, Vitaly Potapenko.
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Tony Allen all day. Not getting him resigned is one of Ainge's biggest mistakes.
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Wasn't Gerald Henderson a great perimeter defender?
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Hondo was a phenomenal all-nba-defender for like, most of a decade. I'm not sure any of the other names really match up to his credentials.
That said, I'm probably somewhat biased towards DJ because I watched him out of the gates as a rookie when he was ridiculously athletic, flying all over the place for Seattle. He was not quite the same uber-athletic guy when he got to the Celtics -- though a case could be made that he was an even smarter, more effective defender overall.
Danny Ainge was actually another excellent defender who doesn't get enough credit sometimes.
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Smart is far and away the best perimeter defender we've ever had. KG was also pretty good. Never saw Hondo but go back to the 80's. Tony Allen. Bruce Bowen, that's about it. Rondo gambled too much. Tony Allen was also somewhat overrated that way. He was a better all around player here than just defense.
One's I've seen
1. Smart
2. Bowen
3. Bradley
4. Tony Allen
Dj is probably next but no one else was that good. Unless you count KG or pierce and his underrated D.
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Reggie based on the skill set and physique and the way his play would translate today.
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Yeah, Reggie Lewis deserves some love...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7t4swtdYw
So does Posey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogs3awyNZtE
The thing I LOVED about James Posey was how he ALWAYS got in an extra swipe, knock, scratch - all AFTER the whistle. He had a gift for doing that.
Look at his work on Kobe here...he absolutely MUGS him after the whistle..right across his arms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeev8dZ0lg0
He manages to stay in front of him as well.
DJ, TA, AB, Rondo, Hondo...we've had some great ones.
Marcus will be on this list one day soon.
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Dennis johnson until he lost his footspeed then we had to witness ainge try guard isiah thomas
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Tony Allen, AB
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DJ.
He was brought in to play defense against Andrew Toney and shut him down.
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Isaiah Thomas ;D
Honestly, for guys I've seen in my lifetime, it's TA followed by AB. Smart could work his way to the top of that list.
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Hondo was the best I ever saw
Add my vote AND a great offensive player.
Really no one else on list is at his level and we've had some great ones. DJ, Reggie Lewis, Rick Fox not getting any love
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I saw them all play since 1966. Few on this board have my perspective.
Tony Allen.
Ask Kobe.
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Havlicek with DJ a second close.
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I actually rate Avery Bradley above Tony Allen, personally.
As an overall defender I rate Tony Allen higher, but this specifically says "perimeter defender". I think Avery Bradley plays better perimeter defense then Tony Allen ever has.
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My first instinct was to say Dennis Johnson. Then I went to his basketball reference page and was reminded of the career he had.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsde01.html
6x All-NBA Defense 1st team
3x All-NBA Defense 2nd team
He made all-NBA defense four times with the Celtics.
And oh the by the way... MVP of the 1979 finals and 2x all-NBA selection before coming over.
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Ask Lebron the three guys he hated/hates to face
Leonard, Bowen, Tony Allen
Now the only guy that could truly neutralize lebron on the defensive end is Leonard. But Allen always gave him hell. And he is 6'4.
T. Allen also is a magnificent defender against any guards. Steph Curry cant do much againt T Allen
AB also is a fantastic defender against guards. Steph Curry again has issues. Dwade also
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It's a great question. DJ in his younger days especially was one of the best defenders in the league. He came to Boston still in his prime but nearing the end of it. He could guard anyone and if I recall, the reason they brought him in was to deal with Andrew Toney who absolutely killed the Celtics back then. And he was successful.
Havlicek never got tired and part of his deal was running his own man ragged on the offensive end. The defenses back then were a lot different than now. Zone was completely outlawed in the NBA and you stayed with your man though of course you had some 'help' defense going on. But Havlicek was like a machine.
Gary Payton was also great in his prime but was well past it when he came here. Avery is top notch for today's game as is Marcus Smart. Both would have been terrific defenders in any era.
Same for Tony Allen. Don Chaney has super long arms and was a very good defensive guard in his on right.
As for who's best....I'm actually going to say Smart. The stuff he does when he's in his little zone...I've never seen that before and he does it without fouling. Put him back in the hand check era and it would have been unfair. He'd have shut everyone down.
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Ask Lebron the three guys he hated/hates to face
Leonard, Bowen, Tony Allen
Now the only guy that could truly neutralize lebron on the defensive end is Leonard. But Allen always gave him hell. And he is 6'4.
T. Allen also is a magnificent defender against any guards. Steph Curry cant do much againt T Allen
AB also is a fantastic defender against guards. Steph Curry again has issues. Dwade also
Kobe also said TA was the toughest defender he ever faced.
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Ask Lebron the three guys he hated/hates to face
Leonard, Bowen, Tony Allen
Now the only guy that could truly neutralize lebron on the defensive end is Leonard. But Allen always gave him hell. And he is 6'4.
T. Allen also is a magnificent defender against any guards. Steph Curry cant do much againt T Allen
AB also is a fantastic defender against guards. Steph Curry again has issues. Dwade also
Kobe also said TA was the toughest defender he ever faced.
Rodman
Leonard
Bowen
T. Allen
AB
This would be a killer defensive unit
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Tony Allen. Old timers will refute this for sure but its harder to play perimeter D these days with no handcheck, lots of ticky tacky fouls and lenience in palming. 3 pt shooting is more emphasized so you have to guard a bigger area.
Tony Allen can guard guys that Bradley cannot- Lebron and Kobe included.
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Hondo was All-Defense 8 times.
I mean Kobe was all-defense 12x, 9x first team so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Same with Tony. He got on all defense teams because he became a starter in Memphis, he was just as good for the C's just limited in minutes.