Author Topic: What's Next for Dallas?  (Read 7666 times)

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What's Next for Dallas?
« on: April 28, 2008, 01:04:45 AM »

Online Who

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Getting knocked out of the playoffs (only a matter of time now) is terrible news for Dallas. There's just so little to be optimistic about when considering next season. They're miles away from being a contender.

Their offense was horrible in the playoffs and it hasn't been much better in the regular season since the trade. They get no easy baskets outside of Kidd pushing the ball on the break. They can't pass and move in the halfcourt. Everything is one-on-one. Everybody over-relies on Dirk and to a far lesser extent Josh Howard. Everything is a contested jump shot. It's hard to win with that.

Their defense hasn't been much better. Kidd is the biggest problem. He's been absolutely trashed by oppossing point guards and the West is loaded with talented point guards. They can't defend the pick and roll with Kidd. I don't think he can even guard point guards anymore. I think they have to have a shooting guard who can do that and switch assignments on a nightly basis. Dampier also looks very vulnerable against quicker or more athletic big men, and he doesn't bring enough elsewhere to make up for it. Dirk is slightly above average. Josh is above average but not great. That's 4/5ths of your starting lineup. That's a problem.

Can they change?

They have no cap space. They have three future first round picks to give up to New Jersey. They have little young talent (Bass). They have the largest payroll in the league at $105mil this season which will go down to $82mil next year but that's still way over the cap. Even at that, they only have 7 players (Kidd, Dirk, Josh, Damp, Terry, Stack, Bass) on their payroll/roster for next season. Everyone else is an upcoming free agent (Eddie Jones has a player option but I think he'll retire).

Who on their team is even tradeable? Dampier isn't. Terry isn't really, I doubt you recieve anyone as good as him in return. That's 23mil of cap space that isn't moveable. Add another 40mil between Kidd and Dirk (they don't want to do that and I think they lose in any trade that they'll be offered). That's 63mil. Jerry Stackhouse? Nah not really. He's had a poor season and has been showing his age for two years now. Why accept 14mil over two for what he's giving these days? Then why do that and give up something valuable? That would be madness. The only tradeable guy is Josh Howard. That's not much flexibility.

Do they even have the right players around Kidd to make this work?

I don't think they have anywhere close to the right supporting cast around Kidd. He needs guys who are offensive threats, who can score, who can pass, who are intelligent and can move without the ball. He needs these types of players to take advantage of his creativity and passing. Not guys like Eric Dampier. Not guys like Devean George or Eddie Jones. There is going to be a lot of veteran's minimum guys filling out their bench next year, you think they can upgrade these guys? That's unlikely.

I don't think Stackhouse fits in either. He isn't atheltic enough to get out on the break and run. His age and loss of athleticism has limited him offensively. He can't defend the point which is a problem because Kidd needs a two guard who can. He isn't a shooter which is a problem because neither is Kidd and suddenly you have a backcourt that can't shoot and can be cheated off all game long. He doesn't fit in.

Perhaps the most [dang]ing issue - I'm not convinced Josh Howard fits in either. He's averaged something like 15ppg and 5rpg on poor shooting while Dirk and Kidd are in the lineup. The only decent stretch he had since Kidd's arrival was while Dirk was out injured and a lot of success then came on isos and one-on-one play. He hasn't been able to move without the basketball. He hasn't been able to take advantage of or be part of good ball movement. He has spent three and a half years in Avery's iso dependant offense, he just hasn't shaken out of it. Howard is a smart, athletic and very talented player. He should be thriving next to Jason Kidd. He should be getting fastbreak dunks. He should be getting open jump shots. He should be getting back door layups. He should be seeing less double teams than he's seen in two years because of the ball movement. But it's happening. There's been no reason on the court since the Kidd deal for any optimism for this changing. Do you bet the house on this altering? Jeez I'm not so sure how happy I'd be with that. Do you have to move him?

If you move Josh Howard what do you get back? This is a player that's worse than Jason Richardson. He has a slightly better contract which will help but borderline all-star swingmen don't net a lot in return.

So what do you if you're Dallas? Do you break up the team?

Normally I'm steadfast against doing this because I think there's a lot of opportunities out there that have been untapped. I don't like giving up good talent when you have no idea how you'll replace it. I don't like giving up a 50+ win team that was close to a ring with no idea how you'll get back there. Not while there's a chance. Is there a chance? I'm struggling to see it.

What can this team do to be a contender next season or the following season? Besides get lucky I don't have anything. Not an idea. I think it probably is time to give up on this team. I don't think this core can win. Yes it's likely time to blow up this team, they simply don't have the moves (flexibility) available to fix this team.

Which brings me to another huge question. Dirk is 30 years old, is he young enough to rebuild around? Can you rebuild a whole time quickly enough for him to remain the number one option? After recent failures he likely needs a player who's of at least comparable in talent level. Can you acquire that in three years after blowing up the roster? Is he part of the plan going forward?

Very tough summer in Big D. Not a lot of reason for happiness or optimism.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 01:32:43 AM by Who »

Re: What's Next for Dallas?
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2008, 01:51:23 AM »

Offline kw10

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I think they need to trade Dirk Nowitzki away, whether for a top draft pick or two, or a few role players, or another star or a combination, I'm really not sure-that's why I'm not a GM. But Dirk has to go, I personally would try to get something like an Al Harrington plus a lottery pick or something like that. With that said, I don't think Mark Cuban wants Dirk to go.
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Re: What's Next for Dallas?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 09:51:26 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Well thought-out post, Who.  I'm in total agreement that the window is shut on the Dallas Mavericks.  I wasn't a fan of the Kidd trade at the time and certainly nothing has been done to change my mind.  If anything, the Kidd trade destroyed the possibility to reload the new couple of seasons and now the Mavs find themselves with very little room for roster manuevering and the Western Conference isn't going to get any easier the next couple of seasons.  No reason to be optimistic if you're a Dallas fan.


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Re: What's Next for Dallas?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 10:00:30 AM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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Nice post Who.  The Mavs seem to be in the spot that the Kings were a few years ago.  They are a couple of years removed from their peak, they are still a good team, but they have no legitimate shot at winning it all and it doesnt seem like there is way for them to rebuild without getting hosed.  They are in a bad spot.

Re: What's Next for Dallas?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 10:25:44 AM »

Offline Andy Jick

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mark cuban will blow this thing up...and dirk will get traded.  two years in a row of first round misery won't sit well with him.

i'm beginning to believe that dirk is the west coast version of pierce...nice player, but no leadership skills.
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Re: What's Next for Dallas?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 10:32:37 AM »

Offline Bankshot

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mark cuban will blow this thing up...and dirk will get traded.  two years in a row of first round misery won't sit well with him.

i'm beginning to believe that dirk is the west coast version of pierce...nice player, but no leadership skills.

I don't see anything wrong with Pierce or Dirk.  There is nothing wrong with not being a leader.  The problem is not them, it's the players around them.  Pierce finally has the right players around him, Dirk doesn't.
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Re: What's Next for Dallas?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2008, 10:43:05 AM »

Offline Andy Jick

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mark cuban will blow this thing up...and dirk will get traded.  two years in a row of first round misery won't sit well with him.

i'm beginning to believe that dirk is the west coast version of pierce...nice player, but no leadership skills.

I don't see anything wrong with Pierce or Dirk.  There is nothing wrong with not being a leader.  The problem is not them, it's the players around them.  Pierce finally has the right players around him, Dirk doesn't.

...and last i checked these celtics haven't won anything yet and have not advanced to the next round.

let's wait and see what happens before we crown this version of the celtics a success...pierce is surrounded by those "right players" that haven't won anything yet themselves to this point in their respective careers.
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Re: What's Next for Dallas?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2008, 11:20:40 AM »

Offline celticmaestro

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that was a great post from who. well thought out and nicely delivered.

i think dallas should look to move josh howard along with some who are definitely past it or not championship calibre players like dampier, stackhouse, george, juwan howard, eddie jones and magloire.

they should opt to play phoenix style basketball - no defence and just run run run. they could add marion, okafor could be available. a core of kidd, terry, marion, dirk, okafor could make them far more affective than they could be with this team.

Re: What's Next for Dallas?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2008, 11:23:35 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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mark cuban will blow this thing up...and dirk will get traded.  two years in a row of first round misery won't sit well with him.

i'm beginning to believe that dirk is the west coast version of pierce...nice player, but no leadership skills.

I agree with the part in bold. Avery Johnson will be the first casualty

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Re: What's Next for Dallas?
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2008, 11:27:40 AM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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Can they change?

They have no cap space. They have three future first round picks to give up to New Jersey. They have little young talent (Bass). They have the largest payroll in the league at $105mil this season which will go down to $82mil next year but that's still way over the cap. Even at that, they only have 7 players (Kidd, Dirk, Josh, Damp, Terry, Stack, Bass) on their payroll/roster for next season. Everyone else is an upcoming free agent (Eddie Jones has a player option but I think he'll retire).

Who on their team is even tradeable? Dampier isn't. Terry isn't really, I doubt you recieve anyone as good as him in return. That's 23mil of cap space that isn't moveable. Add another 40mil between Kidd and Dirk (they don't want to do that and I think they lose in any trade that they'll be offered). That's 63mil. Jerry Stackhouse? Nah not really. He's had a poor season and has been showing his age for two years now. Why accept 14mil over two for what he's giving these days? Then why do that and give up something valuable? That would be madness. The only tradeable guy is Josh Howard. That's not much flexibility.


So what do you if you're Dallas? Do you break up the team?

Normally I'm steadfast against doing this because I think there's a lot of opportunities out there that have been untapped. I don't like giving up good talent when you have no idea how you'll replace it. I don't like giving up a 50+ win team that was close to a ring with no idea how you'll get back there. Not while there's a chance. Is there a chance? I'm struggling to see it.

What can this team do to be a contender next season or the following season? Besides get lucky I don't have anything. Not an idea. I think it probably is time to give up on this team. I don't think this core can win. Yes it's likely time to blow up this team, they simply don't have the moves (flexibility) available to fix this team.

Which brings me to another huge question. Dirk is 30 years old, is he young enough to rebuild around? Can you rebuild a whole time quickly enough for him to remain the number one option? After recent failures he likely needs a player who's of at least comparable in talent level. Can you acquire that in three years after blowing up the roster? Is he part of the plan going forward?

Very tough summer in Big D. Not a lot of reason for happiness or optimism.


Great post, Who. 

As Who outlines in the excerpt I've posted above, making drastic personnel changes in Dallas is going to be very difficult, and is too often the case in professional sports, when the players can't be changed with any ease, sometimes the next course of action for management is to deal with a position that is much more susceptible to change: coach.

Whether or not Avery Johnson has been responsible for the issues in Dallas, and whether or not this team would benefit from a new coach, I'm not entirely sure.  I know that there has been a fervent anti-Avery movement among the Mavs faithful (see: fireavery.com for details) but that he still has his share of supporters as well, including one particularly influential booster -- Mark Cuban himself.  But all that said, while my understanding has been that Cuban is an Avery booster, and while I wouldn't necessarily predict a firing, sometimes changing the coach is the path of least resistance for management, and it wouldn't shock me to see Avery be shown the door this summer either, which brings up this question: Is there a better coach out there for this Dallas team?  And if so, who is it?  For all the questions that have been raised about Johnson, we're still talking about a guy with a .735 winning percentage over four regular seasons.

Should Avery be canned?

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Re: What's Next for Dallas?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2008, 12:03:27 PM »

Offline JSD

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I disagree,

If I'm Dallas I stand pat.  

- I'm going to  sign my team free agents to one year contracts (Juan Howard, Stackhouse, George),

- Sign a MLE to a 1 year deal ( Maybe Ricky Davis for a little offense? but preferably a PG J. Williams?)  

- I fire Avery Johnson and bring in Larry Brown

- I allow Jason Kidd a full offseason and training camp to get matriculated.


I do all of this knowing Jason Kidd is in a contract year (http://hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm) If Dallas still can't make a run after next season simply let Kidd expire and you are now 14 million under the cap for the Summer of 09.
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Re: What's Next for Dallas?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2008, 12:14:36 PM »

Offline wiley

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At least two media dudes, Holley locally and one of the national dudes, picked Dallas to win this series.  Were there others who picked Dallas as well?  If so, why?   Everything in the world that's happened this year, including regular season records, pointed to N.O. winning this series.  What did Dallas do to deserve being picked over N.O?  Did I miss something or were these just bad picks by supposedly savvy sports media figures....?

N.O. over Dallas is not the least bit surprising...With L.A. so [dang] good now, And San Antonio still strong, and N.O. destined to get even better, I say blow up the team now.....If not for the strength of these other teams I might say give it one more year, but Dallas has zero chance as they are now constituted....

Re: What's Next for Dallas?
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2008, 12:23:45 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Not that my opinion matters much, but I actually picked Dallas to win this series also. 

Going into the playoffs, I thought the experience of Dallas would be enough to overcome playoff newbie New Orleans in a first round series.  I really expected more of a veteran-ladden squard and felt that Dirk would have a big series and help carry Dallas to a series win.  I had an inclination that Paul would do his thing against Kidd but figured it'd be offset by Dirk and the other veterans.  I also thought that Dallas would actually show some intensity, play with a sense of urgency, and play some defense.

Guess I was wrong on all accounts.  ::)


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Re: What's Next for Dallas?
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2008, 12:32:47 PM »

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I do all of this knowing Jason Kidd is in a contract year (http://hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm) If Dallas still can't make a run after next season simply let Kidd expire and you are now 14 million under the cap for the Summer of 09.
They're still over the cap or right around the cap line in 2009. They have $57mil on the books plus whatever they spend this offseason, likely the MLE so add another $5mil. Stackhouse isn't on the hoopshype salaries page, he has $14mil remaining on his contract, he's not a FA this summer, he signed a $21mil over three years contract this offseason (Spree's contract offer, little irony there? No?). Several of last off-seasons free agent signings haven't been put up properly, only their first year is up like Stackhouse.

Standing pat and hoping you can trade Kidd's expiring deal might be a decent last ditch attempt though, rather than blowing up the team. Their last card in the war chest. It would be a decent card to hold. All or nothing hand. Plus it gives Josh some extra time to try and figure things out on the court which could be a huge gain.difference maker for Dallas.

They have no cap space until two full seasons from now, that's year three from now. And that's only if Dirk and Howard leave which will kill the core of the team anyway. Otherwise they're only about $5mil below the cap (and likely will have spent 1-2 MLE's since then so they'll likely be over the cap). Dirk would be 33 years old at that moment in time.

Re: What's Next for Dallas?
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2008, 02:29:53 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Replace the coach.


Consider replacing the front office. 




Get another top scorer.  Make a move for Redd if possible. 


Put the ball in Kidds head.  Let him create shots for Dirk and Redd (since neither of them create shots for others)



But I think they are pretty much one little push into NBA syberia.  Good enough to be in the playoffs every year.  Built of fully developed Vets.  Bloated salary.  Unlikely to find an impact player in the draft.