2013 CB Draft: Western First Round: Los Angeles(4) vs Golden State(5)

[dark_lord]

Btw I expect Rondo to be healthy come playoffs so voters should too.

if thats the case.....game, set, match....GS wins!

[rondoallaturca]

The issue is la has no superstar takent any longer. Rondo and Aldridge are the two best talents in the series.

Dirk at 35 can no longer carry a team. He can't. And he's asked too when Marc gasol us the second best offensive player on the team. Calderon is 32 and can't guard a chair. Wesley Matthews is a nice role player but that's it.

So as soon as you turn 35, you can't carry carry a team? Tim Duncan certainly has something to say about that. These guys never relied on athleticism to dominate so there's no reason to doibt them unless they actually say they're going to retire. Especially in this case when Dirk will have been rested well in the regular season. And I'm surprised you think Gasol is our second best offensive player. Our offense operates in a way in that after Dirk, every other player is a candidate to burn you. Calderon might be 32 and defense isn't his calling card, but no one runs an offesne better than him. After carrying a sparkling 4.11 AST/TO on two separate bottom 10 offenses last year, I can't even begin to fathom what potential this team has on offense.

For me, this matchup is all down to defense because our offense is so much more efficient than yours (please feel free to state otherwise). So it boils down to defense, and you having not one, but TWO guards who can't shoot the three plays right into our cards. We're equipped for all sort of offenses, but are particularly strong against a team like yours that have no guards who force us to stick near them on the perimeter. How will you overcome that when Rondo is key to your offense, and Derozan not replacable without sacrificing something else from your team? Matthews has a strong build for SG and has a knack of taking advantage of undersized guards, so you can't exactly just stick in Lou or Jackson for Demar.

[indeedproceed]

I don't think Dirk can carry a team for a season, but I do think he can average 25 ppg for a playoff series or two.

[Roy H.]

I don't think Dirk can carry a team for a season, but I do think he can average 25 ppg for a playoff series or two.

I think he can.  The question is, will he score like that in this series?

I worry that Dirk will get worn down defending Aldridge in the post.  Gasol won't be able to take Golden State's best big man (Aldridge) on defense, because if he does, that leaves Dirk with the much bigger Hibbert. 

So, Dirk will be stuck on Aldridge, and that's going to sap a lot of his energy, which would otherwise be spent on offense.

[rondoallaturca]

Dirk outplayed (significantly) LMA in the playoffs two years ago playing 4.3 less minutes. Like I said earlier, their frontcourt of LMA/Hibbert will be the least of our troubles. Ours counters theirs brilliantly. And since both of their guards are non-shooters... There's a reason I hoped to be matched up with GS in the West. I studied them well being a Pacific Division rival, and knew this would be an advantageous matchup for us.

[indeedproceed]

I don't think Dirk can carry a team for a season, but I do think he can average 25 ppg for a playoff series or two.

I think he can.  The question is, will he score like that in this series?

I worry that Dirk will get worn down defending Aldridge in the post.  Gasol won't be able to take Golden State's best big man (Aldridge) on defense, because if he does, that leaves Dirk with the much bigger Hibbert. 

So, Dirk will be stuck on Aldridge, and that's going to sap a lot of his energy, which would otherwise be spent on offense.

I think that works both ways, but overall I agree.

[rondoallaturca]

One more post before checking out again...

Dirk will need to use less energy on his offense than LMA does on his IMO. LMA's guards and their perimeter ineptitude mean that our defense can pack the mid range and paint with a lot more pressure, whereas they cannot risk doing the same with Dirk.

[indeedproceed]

Dirk outplayed (significantly) LMA in the playoffs two years ago playing 4.3 less minutes. Like I said earlier, their frontcourt of LMA/Hibbert will be the least of our troubles. Ours counters theirs brilliantly. And since both of their guards are non-shooters... There's a reason I hoped to be matched up with GS in the West. I studied them well being a Pacific Division rival, and knew this would be an advantageous matchup for us.

I looked at that series. Do you think comparing Dirk and LMA in that context is really genuine?

The other front court player for Portland was Marcus Camby, who played a staggering amount of minutes. The second best scorer is either a 1 or 2 good games of Brandon Roy, or Wes Matthews.

Meanwhile this was the 'magic' year for Dallas. Tyson Chandler, despite a DPOY the following season, has never looked as good as he did then. Kidd was still competent, Marion a whole 'nother player than he was the past season or two.

What difference, if any, do you think this current context brings?

[BleedGreen1989]

The issue is la has no superstar takent any longer. Rondo and Aldridge are the two best talents in the series.

Dirk at 35 can no longer carry a team. He can't. And he's asked too when Marc gasol us the second best offensive player on the team. Calderon is 32 and can't guard a chair. Wesley Matthews is a nice role player but that's it.

So as soon as you turn 35, you can't carry carry a team? Tim Duncan certainly has something to say about that. These guys never relied on athleticism to dominate so there's no reason to doibt them unless they actually say they're going to retire. Especially in this case when Dirk will have been rested well in the regular season. And I'm surprised you think Gasol is our second best offensive player. Our offense operates in a way in that after Dirk, every other player is a candidate to burn you. Calderon might be 32 and defense isn't his calling card, but no one runs an offesne better than him. After carrying a sparkling 4.11 AST/TO on two separate bottom 10 offenses last year, I can't even begin to fathom what potential this team has on offense.

For me, this matchup is all down to defense because our offense is so much more efficient than yours (please feel free to state otherwise). So it boils down to defense, and you having not one, but TWO guards who can't shoot the three plays right into our cards. We're equipped for all sort of offenses, but are particularly strong against a team like yours that have no guards who force us to stick near them on the perimeter. How will you overcome that when Rondo is key to your offense, and Derozan not replacable without sacrificing something else from your team? Matthews has a strong build for SG and has a knack of taking advantage of undersized guards, so you can't exactly just stick in Lou or Jackson for Demar.

For me, this is what seals it for LA.

Spacing for GS is a serious issue. Hibbert is certainly not a center you throw the ball down to and watch him score 20 so I'm wondering where the points are coming from for GS. Post up Aldrige and the likes of Matthews, Pondexter, Delfino, and Mbah are going to sag like jeans in the 90's. As my co-gm noted, you are not going to be able to get away with playing Lou next to Rondo in this series either. This issue also magnifies with Rondo who we have seen typically surrounded by shooters, which he is not here and will greatly limit his effectiveness.

Not to harp on the injury bug, by are we really assuming three guys are coming back from acl surgery flawlessly? (Rondo, Williams, and Rush (who has previously already torn his acl)) If that's the case, I likely would of changed my whole draft strategy.

Life has me pretty swamped right now but I from me just cruising through the forum and catching up this morning, I feel the wrong side of the ball is being discussed in this series.

[bfrombleacher]

How are the Lakers going to defend all those bigs?

Simply having Aldridge, Hibbert and Bargs is fantastic. Then you have one or more of Udoh, Jason Thompson and/or Ezeli? That is a swiss army knife of bigs right there.

The Warriors can simply throw bodies at Gasol. Gasol in foul trouble and/or fatigued seems pretty devastating to the Lakers.

Will spacing with Rondo really been an issue? Last year I recall there was streaky shooting all around from a team consisting of basically all shooters but Rondo was still having a career year.

A live bodied big like Wilcox looked great beside Rondo. Now you're talking a trio of extremely skilled and talented bigs.

[BleedGreen1989]

How are the Lakers going to defend all those bigs?

Simply having Aldridge, Hibbert and Bargs is fantastic. Then you have one or more of Udoh, Jason Thompson and/or Ezeli? That is a swiss army knife of bigs right there.

The Warriors can simply throw bodies at Gasol. Gasol in foul trouble and/or fatigued seems pretty devastating to the Lakers.

Will spacing with Rondo really been an issue? Last year I recall there was streaky shooting all around from a team consisting of basically all shooters but Rondo was still having a career year.

A live bodied big like Wilcox looked great beside Rondo. Now you're talking a trio of extremely skilled and talented bigs.

First time I've heard "Bargs" and "fantastic" in the same sentence while not referring to his hair..

With Hibbert, I have no doubt Gasol can and will take him and we can call that a wash I suppose in that sense. LMA we've already explained will likely be seeing double teams from time to time from any of our perimeter threats as there is not much shooting to keep Pondexter, Mbah, Delfino, or Matthews honest.

Regarding Gasol in foul trouble, can't the same be said for LMA? Dirk is still a match up nightmare at the PF spot and is very good at drawing fouls. LMA in foul trouble spells disaster for GS as well.

Also, comparing the 12-13 Celtics to this GS squad is not entirely accurate. Rondo had plenty of shooters to keep defenses honest with Jason Terry, Courtney Lee, Paul Pierce, Jeff Green, Kevin Garnett, and Brandon Bass. All capable shooters who need to be respected out to at least 18 feet. This GS squad lacks that type of shooting to keep the defense spread out. The paint will be packed with focus on double teaming LMA and forcing Rondo into jumpers.

Regarding Ezeli, isn't this yet another guy coming off a pretty major injury on the GS squad?

[rondoallaturca]

IP, I agree context is different by bringing in LMA/Dirk in the playoffs two years ago, so it by all means isn't an accurate comparison; however, you can say that with a lot of other comparisons that have been made and will contonue to be made here. Something is better than nothong. And in thos case, it'll be more significant than usual because LMA will be the focal point of Gs's offense much like in Por. In Por, he simply didn't have much surrunding talent; in Gs, we'll be able to shut down his supporting cast for aforementioned reasons.

Bfrombleacher, as covered earlier, their frontcourt is barely an issue for us. I have a difficult time seeing a smart DPOY-caliber center like Marc getting into foul trouble just cause they can theow a variety of bigs at him. And Rondo's Celtics are a poor comparison like my coGM said. Neither LMA or Hibbert are the transition big Wilcox is, and there are a lot more non-shooters on Gsthan Bos.

[Rondo2287]

I really like Golden state in this series.  I think Rondo will do his usual post season explosion. I think the two frontcourts are probably a neutralizer but there is nobody that can contend with Rondo in the playoffs on the LAL team

[rondoallaturca]

I really like Golden state in this series.  I think Rondo will do his usual post season explosion. I think the two frontcourts are probably a neutralizer but there is nobody that can contend with Rondo in the playoffs on the LAL team

Dirk. In the playoffs you still can't count him out for 25ppg and clutch shots.

Also, where's the love for Rondo the rest of the forum? I've seen people propose we trade him for guys like Greivis Vasquez and Greg Monroe to help our rebuilding... Smh.

[BleedGreen1989]

I really like Golden state in this series.  I think Rondo will do his usual post season explosion. I think the two frontcourts are probably a neutralizer but there is nobody that can contend with Rondo in the playoffs on the LAL team

Dirk. In the playoffs you still can't count him out for 25ppg and clutch shots.

Also, where's the love for Rondo the rest of the forum? I've seen people propose we trade him for guys like Greivis Vasquez and Greg Monroe to help our rebuilding... Smh.

Right? I thought Boston fans mostly hated Rondo lol

I'd also like to hear from people what exactly they think Rondo will do? People just keep saying things like he'll go "crazy" or he'll play like "typical Rondo". How does the Rondo from Boston translate so well to a GS team that is far behind those Boston squads in terms of shooting, spacing, and proven veteran leadership?

No doubt Dirk can still take over a series scoring size. Also, why do people keep saying the front courts are a wash? If you want to call Dirk/LMA a wash that's one thing (although I still disagree), but to say Hibbert and Marc Gasol are equals? Not even close.