An attempt at a realistic explanation

[BballTim]

Good post, PLamb. TP.

If Danny really needs to make some changes in the offseason then he should start with Doc. I mean, its easier to fire one person than a few at once. That said, I'm part of the tiny minority that feels this team and the coach should be given one more year. Sign some players to help the team.....but don't blow it up. Atleast not for another year (I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for saying that).

This team should only be blown up if their failure to compete continues into the playoffs and they get knocked off by the Heat or somebody.  I don't see any reason to bring Ray back just so next year's team can be as unpleasant to watch as this year's (even though Ray is the least of this team's problems).

Mike

Ray will be great coming off the bench next year. I would love to have him back.

In your scenario, if Ray gets in a resigned deal what many think he will and Rasheed isn't traded away, the Celtics could possibly have $14 million or more tied up in two bench players

Not exactly a recipe for success

  I don't think that's an issue in the last year or two of the contender. It's also true that we'd be spending significantly less money on the sg position than we are now.

We're not a contender.  This team isn't playing like the Celtics of the declining years of Bird, McHale and DJ.  Those guys continued to bring it almost every night, even when they really weren't contending for the title.  If this team don't show they can do that in the playoffs, I'd rather see Ray let go...if only to slap the rest of the team in the face with the reality of what they've become.

Mike

  Yes, they're still contenders this year.

[Vermont Green]

I actually don't see that much of a mystery.  I think there are two key factors and they are pretty simple:

KG is gimpy and just not KG.  I think he is trying but there is something terribly wrong with his knee.

Rondo's lack of shooting stiffles our offense.  For all the good we derive from his quickness and passing, it is offset by his man sagging and doubling.

These two things then snowball and affect everything else (movement on offense, defense, energy, .....)

I don't think it is anybody's fault, not Doc, not Danny, not players.  It just is what it is (apologies for the trite cliche).

[BballTim]

* Injuries (be it KG, Pierce, Davis, Daniels) and the additions of Nate and Finely has not allowed our team to pratice and/or play that often together.

* Ball movement. Our offense has basically become a 1/4 type offense where it's primarily in Rondo's hands for the majority of the possession and he is called to make a play for  himself or teammates. The ball movement has really decreased and that's what made our offense so good the past couple of seasons. Would like to see more high pick and rolls with PP or RA handling the ball and having Rondo float along the baseline (preventing a double on the screen and roll) which we saw much more frequently.

* Defense. Here it starts with Rondo gambling way too often and forcing the bigs to rotate and defend the basket. The problem is that KG has lost a step and can no longer defend the basket like he used to. These rotations often force our players out of position and we don't have the athleticism to recover.

* Intensity. Comes and goes in spurts and it's clear that in most games we just don't want it as bad as our opponents. This is evident on loose balls, boxing out, and a lot of other hustle plays that don't show up in the box score.

Nice, concise, explanation.  Not sure the team as constructed has the ponies to do things much differently, though.

Three of those issues tie back to the guy who just signed the $50M extension.  The ball sticks to Rondo's hands on offense a lot more.  Is this because there's less off-the-ball movement, or is there less off-the-ball movement because Rondo's playing more like a Starbury-type PG?  The crappy defense is getting ridiculous; I'm so sick of seeing opposing guards get into the lane at will. 

The effort, night-in, night-out?  We know that's always been an issue with Rondo.

  Rondo's effort, night in and night out, has been as good as anyone else on the team. And is there more ball movement when Paul or Ray have the ball?

[twinbree]

The way I see it now is that basically we didn't do our homework in the offseason and the injuries magnified problems that probably would have existed to a lesser extent anyway.

1. A fully healthy KG and a revamped bench were not the only keys to this season like thought. Reviewing last season the team was inconsistent, played sloppy basketball often and there was a noticeable decline in both the defense and effort. We ended up with a great record but had a lot of unnecessarily close games and got some impressive late game heroics from Paul and Ray. We could have had an easier 1st round and maybe won the 2nd if we had only shown up ready in half of those games.

IIRC Doc said the problem with how last season when KG got injured was that team got younger which in retrospect doesn't credit the young starters for stepping up admirably late in the season in the playoffs. They were more consistent than PP and Ray who were justifiably worn out and hampered by injuries.

Point is solving the lack of effort, inconsistency and slow starts should have been an additional priority at the start of the season since adding players was not going to fix those.


2. The defense and offense needed to be assessed. Even without the recent injuries to KG and Pierce, the fact that the team would be older and probably slower should have been factored into both the defensive and offensive schemes and the rotations.

The expected improvements of Rondo and Perk should have been factored into the offense so we're not running the same offense from 2008 that caters to the strength of the Big 3 and underutilizes the other players. The replacement of Leon with Sheed meant that the team would be getting to the line less and rebounding less on the offensive boards so they should have worked on increasing the aggressiveness of the offense other than asking Baby to play more in the post.

The rotation should reflect the fact that a lot of our players are over 30 and their minutes and returns from injury should be managed carefully and that the main young guys on the teams are practically vets now and can be trusted with a little more responsibility when the older guys are not fully healthy.

[tenn_smoothie]

i maintain that the main issues at work on this Celtics team are ........

1) this group was the ultimate grinders in '08. even that season, they were a little tough to watch on offense, but simply sublime on defense. but that style is tough to sustain over multiple seasons. nothing comes easy - the entire team has to work very hard and keep focus to be successful. add age and some injuries and the loss of key components like james posey and even the best game efforts can produce mixed results - even though they are trying very hard at times, they don't always get the stops on defense or the basket on offense. a lot of effort (like we saw last season) producing mixed results produces frustration and hanging heads. the core of this team is very tough mentally, but even great players have their limits ......... mental exhaustion sets in.

2) rasheed wallace probably wants to win, given it doesn't require too much pain and effort - his basic nature is lazy, take the easy way out. occasionally in his career, he has buckled down and worked, but its been the exception rather than the rule. he doesn't fit on this team.

3) rondo just looks to me like he has read too many press clippings sometimes - he gets careless with the ball and careless on defense. he also has stopped buckling down and playing the right way all the time. two years ago, he still had some humility. now, he seems to think he can get away with shortcuts.

4) as larry bird said when he retired from coaching the pacers, his experience in the league told him that players genrally tuned their head coach out after 3 seasons - it's been 3 seasons.

[chelsearules]

What is wrong with the Boston Celtics?

i read reply in this thread and still don't know the answer