Doc Has Got To Go!!!

[wdleehi]

Yet almost every profesional head coach has or will be fired as some point.


And almost every good coach has or will coach 2 or more teams.  




It happens.  To say it will never happen with the Celtics is unrealistic.  


The Celtics put together a team they believe should be a title team.

If the team fails to achieve the goals the GM and Owner expects, you better believe everyone will be in the hot seat.  


It is the nature of pro-sports.

It will happen when they fall off

Seriously fall off

Not after a 50 win season where injuries and declining games of older players accounted for so much chaos

I'm not saying it won't ever happen, never did, not once, not ever

I'm saying it's not happening now, this off season or next season unless this team has a serious fall off in their performance next year at which point Danny will blame Doc and fire him to save his own job

But if they are winning again next year and enter another post season with a chance to win it, Doc will return once again



And FatJohn, you are dead wrong

He will not be fired for his rotations

When he is fired it will be because he no longer has the respect of the players in the locker room, when the team starts losing, when he stops developing NBA talent, when he clashes with management or when Danny needs a scapegoat to save his own job

Coaches don't ever get fired for their rotations

Will he?


How many times have we seen a team fire a coach because the team only made the playoffs? 



Making the playoffs is not this teams goal.


Winning 50 games is not this teams goal.

Well then by your logic he should have been fired last year, right?

Last year, they were playing better, even without KG.  Doc had a team that was playing up to it potential.  

If they continue to play like this with everyone healthy, they are not playing up to their potential.  


At the end of the season, if this team does not 'flip the switch' there has to be changes.  The head coach just happens to be one of the easiest things to change.  



And not matter how much and for how long you have professed your love of a head coach, they get changed more often then the players.  It's just the life of a sports team.




And no, you do not change coaches now.  Celtics have to play out this season with the hand they have.  

[PLamb]

Yet almost every profesional head coach has or will be fired as some point.


And almost every good coach has or will coach 2 or more teams.  




It happens.  To say it will never happen with the Celtics is unrealistic.  


The Celtics put together a team they believe should be a title team.

If the team fails to achieve the goals the GM and Owner expects, you better believe everyone will be in the hot seat.  


It is the nature of pro-sports.

It will happen when they fall off

Seriously fall off

Not after a 50 win season where injuries and declining games of older players accounted for so much chaos

I'm not saying it won't ever happen, never did, not once, not ever

I'm saying it's not happening now, this off season or next season unless this team has a serious fall off in their performance next year at which point Danny will blame Doc and fire him to save his own job

But if they are winning again next year and enter another post season with a chance to win it, Doc will return once again



And FatJohn, you are dead wrong

He will not be fired for his rotations

When he is fired it will be because he no longer has the respect of the players in the locker room, when the team starts losing, when he stops developing NBA talent, when he clashes with management or when Danny needs a scapegoat to save his own job

Coaches don't ever get fired for their rotations

Will he?


How many times have we seen a team fire a coach because the team only made the playoffs? 



Making the playoffs is not this teams goal.


Winning 50 games is not this teams goal.

Well then by your logic he should have been fired last year, right?

Last year, they were playing better, even without KG.  Doc had a team that was playing up to it potential.  

If they continue to play like this with everyone healthy, they are not playing up to their potential.  


At the end of the season, if this team does not 'flip the switch' there has to be changes.  The head coach just happens to be one of the easiest things to change.  



And not matter how much and for how long you have professed your love of a head coach, they get changed more often then the players.  It's just the life of a sports team.




And no, you do not change coaches now.  Celtics have to play out this season with the hand they have.  

Well, keep calling for his ouster, wdleehi

You're going to get it right one of these years

[wdleehi]

Yet almost every profesional head coach has or will be fired as some point.


And almost every good coach has or will coach 2 or more teams.  




It happens.  To say it will never happen with the Celtics is unrealistic.  


The Celtics put together a team they believe should be a title team.

If the team fails to achieve the goals the GM and Owner expects, you better believe everyone will be in the hot seat.  


It is the nature of pro-sports.

It will happen when they fall off

Seriously fall off

Not after a 50 win season where injuries and declining games of older players accounted for so much chaos

I'm not saying it won't ever happen, never did, not once, not ever

I'm saying it's not happening now, this off season or next season unless this team has a serious fall off in their performance next year at which point Danny will blame Doc and fire him to save his own job

But if they are winning again next year and enter another post season with a chance to win it, Doc will return once again



And FatJohn, you are dead wrong

He will not be fired for his rotations

When he is fired it will be because he no longer has the respect of the players in the locker room, when the team starts losing, when he stops developing NBA talent, when he clashes with management or when Danny needs a scapegoat to save his own job

Coaches don't ever get fired for their rotations

Will he?


How many times have we seen a team fire a coach because the team only made the playoffs? 



Making the playoffs is not this teams goal.


Winning 50 games is not this teams goal.

Well then by your logic he should have been fired last year, right?

Last year, they were playing better, even without KG.  Doc had a team that was playing up to it potential.  

If they continue to play like this with everyone healthy, they are not playing up to their potential.  


At the end of the season, if this team does not 'flip the switch' there has to be changes.  The head coach just happens to be one of the easiest things to change.  



And not matter how much and for how long you have professed your love of a head coach, they get changed more often then the players.  It's just the life of a sports team.




And no, you do not change coaches now.  Celtics have to play out this season with the hand they have.  

Well, keep calling for his ouster, wdleehi

You're going to get it right one of these years

I didn't call for his ouster nick. 


I said if the Celtics do not improve what they are doing, his job will definitly be something the team will look at.

[ssspence]

Do you know what is truly hilarious about people wanting Doc replaced?

Within 40 games of taking the reins as new head coach, whoever that person is, the same group of people complaining about Doc will be complaining about why the new coach isn't:

1.) Calling better plays after timeouts and to end games
2.) Isn't keeping certain players happy
3.) Isn't giving player x more time
4.) Is playing player y so much
5.) Isn't starting player a instead of player b
6.) Didn't play player c in a certain situation instead of player d
7.) Is playing the young players so much and costing us games
8.) Is playing the vets so much and not developing the young players
9.) Does have the team prepared for every game
10.) Can motivate the team


And then, they will be calling for that coach to be replaced

Watch, I'm not wrong

That is so true. TP.

These posts never make sense to me. So the reason the Cs shouldn't fire Doc in the offseason is because there's no way the organization or its fans will like the new coach either? Nobody's perfect is the reason to keep him?

Make an argument for Doc, not an argument that everyone other than Doc sucks.

[ssspence]

Yet almost every profesional head coach has or will be fired as some point.


And almost every good coach has or will coach 2 or more teams.  




It happens.  To say it will never happen with the Celtics is unrealistic.  


The Celtics put together a team they believe should be a title team.

If the team fails to achieve the goals the GM and Owner expects, you better believe everyone will be in the hot seat.  


It is the nature of pro-sports.

It will happen when they fall off

Seriously fall off

Not after a 50 win season where injuries and declining games of older players accounted for so much chaos

I'm not saying it won't ever happen, never did, not once, not ever

I'm saying it's not happening now, this off season or next season unless this team has a serious fall off in their performance next year at which point Danny will blame Doc and fire him to save his own job

But if they are winning again next year and enter another post season with a chance to win it, Doc will return once again



And FatJohn, you are dead wrong

He will not be fired for his rotations

When he is fired it will be because he no longer has the respect of the players in the locker room, when the team starts losing, when he stops developing NBA talent, when he clashes with management or when Danny needs a scapegoat to save his own job

Coaches don't ever get fired for their rotations

Will he?


How many times have we seen a team fire a coach because the team only made the playoffs? 



Making the playoffs is not this teams goal.


Winning 50 games is not this teams goal.

Well then by your logic he should have been fired last year, right?

Last year, they were playing better, even without KG.  Doc had a team that was playing up to it potential.  

If they continue to play like this with everyone healthy, they are not playing up to their potential.  


At the end of the season, if this team does not 'flip the switch' there has to be changes.  The head coach just happens to be one of the easiest things to change.  



And not matter how much and for how long you have professed your love of a head coach, they get changed more often then the players.  It's just the life of a sports team.




And no, you do not change coaches now.  Celtics have to play out this season with the hand they have.  

Well, keep calling for his ouster, wdleehi

You're going to get it right one of these years

I didn't call for his ouster nick. 


I said if the Celtics do not improve what they are doing, his job will definitly be something the team will look at.

So PLamb is Nickagneta?

[guava_wrench]

Bec

Why?  Because he's had us win 4 out of our last 5 and playing hard and more complete basketball since the New Jersey debacle?

They lost by 2 on the road to a solid team that is playoff-bound.  Sure, we had our chances and maybe he screwed up with Perk but they're playing pretty good basketball these days.

Doc never learns. His rotations will always be medicore.

I think some fans never learn.

[incoherent]

Doc isn't gone... and he won't be gone next year. Get over yourselves.

[guava_wrench]

Doc is not connecting to these players like he did last year or the year before.  There were injuries and lineup changes all over he place last year as well, but the team still played hard.  Not this year.


What was it the Bird used to say about changing the coaches every couple seasons because it would be better for the team to hear a fresh voice?



Doc will complete this season, but, short of a title, I have to think you need to look at whether or not he is the coach for next season. 

This is the only possible valid reason for changing out Doc. He is one of the better coaches, but if the time comes where he can't get through to the players, then he would have to go.

People like to blame coaches when teams lose, but there is usually not much the coach can do to change a team's fortunes. There are coaches like Skiles who can improve young a team short term until the players grow tired of him. Then there are coaches like Jackson and Popovich who can maintain the respect of key players long term.

The problem is that whoever is the coach when a team hits a decline due to talent issues will be blamed by many fans when that decline happens. It is a breath of fresh air when ownership decides to stick with a coach through thick and thin like in Utah, realizing that a coach can't actually control results.

[Change]

Doc doesn't have a feel for the game. He is clueless when it comes to rotations. And the worst attribute about Doc is passive nature. According to Doc everything is about Defense, but defense alone can't win you a championship. You need to improve in other areas too. You can't dismiss the rebounding issues, you can't dismiss lack of 2nd chance opportunities. Doc has to tackle the problem instead of dismissing them. Just like the Fans maybe the players stopped believing the BS that Doc is feeding.

[Roy Hobbs]

Not all of Doc's detractors are calling for his immediate ouster.  However, it's fair to say that this has been his worst season out of the last three, right?  And it's fair to be disappointed in the way he's managed the team, right?

[Chris]

Not all of Doc's detractors are calling for his immediate ouster.  However, it's fair to say that this has been his worst season out of the last three, right?  And it's fair to be disappointed in the way he's managed the team, right?

I think it is still arguable, because he has also faced a lot more issues this year than the last two to try to work through.

Ultimately, I think he has done a fair job this season.  He has made some questionable moves, and he has also made some good ones.

I also think he has kept this teams head above water, and I would not be surprised if we find out that there have been some MAJOR issues in the lockerroom that he has had to defuse. 

I have always believed though, that a coach should be judged by the performance of his team, and since they still have one of the better records in the league, he is not doing that bad...but he is not doing great either.

[Celts17Pride]

Not all of Doc's detractors are calling for his immediate ouster.  However, it's fair to say that this has been his worst season out of the last three, right?  And it's fair to be disappointed in the way he's managed the team, right?

It's also fair to say Pierce, Ray and KG collectively have had their worst season this year out of the last three, right?


Anyone want to connect the dots?

[PLamb]

Not all of Doc's detractors are calling for his immediate ouster.  However, it's fair to say that this has been his worst season out of the last three, right?  And it's fair to be disappointed in the way he's managed the team, right?

I think it is still arguable, because he has also faced a lot more issues this year than the last two to try to work through.

Ultimately, I think he has done a fair job this season.  He has made some questionable moves, and he has also made some good ones.

I also think he has kept this teams head above water, and I would not be surprised if we find out that there have been some MAJOR issues in the lockerroom that he has had to defuse. 

I have always believed though, that a coach should be judged by the performance of his team, and since they still have one of the better records in the league, he is not doing that bad...but he is not doing great either.

There have been whispers about locker room struggles all year, nothing overt or public but many of the reporters from the locker room have hinted of a divide between some of the older vets and the younger players

I think you are right

I think eventually we will hear about some serious tensions going on in the locker room and I would not be surprised to even hear about a bit of a strenuous relationship between the Big Three

Not this year, probably not next

But once Doc is gone and this group history, I think we will hear about some definite locker room drama much like we did about Larry and McHale and Larry and Maxwell years later

[Greenbean]

Not all of Doc's detractors are calling for his immediate ouster.  However, it's fair to say that this has been his worst season out of the last three, right?  And it's fair to be disappointed in the way he's managed the team, right?

I think it is still arguable, because he has also faced a lot more issues this year than the last two to try to work through.

Ultimately, I think he has done a fair job this season.  He has made some questionable moves, and he has also made some good ones.

I also think he has kept this teams head above water, and I would not be surprised if we find out that there have been some MAJOR issues in the lockerroom that he has had to defuse. 

I have always believed though, that a coach should be judged by the performance of his team, and since they still have one of the better records in the league, he is not doing that bad...but he is not doing great either.

There have been whispers about locker room struggles all year, nothing overt or public but many of the reporters from the locker room have hinted of a divide between some of the older vets and the younger players

I think you are right

I think eventually we will hear about some serious tensions going on in the locker room and I would not be surprised to even hear about a bit of a strenuous relationship between the Big Three

Not this year, probably not next

But once Doc is gone and this group history, I think we will hear about some definite locker room drama much like we did about Larry and McHale and Larry and Maxwell years later

Every team has locker room drama IMO. You put together that many hyper-competitve guys in a bubble for months at a time and you are bound to get some fireworks. It's all about having enough leadership to keep everyone focused on the same goal with all the potential distractions on the periphery.

This is why having veterans is so important. You may be right that there are some issues behind the scenes, but I have faith that when it comes down to brass tax, guys will still fall in line and come together for one common goal.

[barefacedmonk]

Every team has locker room drama IMO. You put together that many hyper-competitve guys in a bubble for months at a time and you are bound to get some fireworks. It's all about having enough leadership to keep everyone focused on the same goal with all the potential distractions on the periphery.

This is why having veterans is so important. You may be right that there are some issues behind the scenes, but I have faith that when it comes down to brass tax, guys will still fall in line and come together for one common goal.

Very good points. TP.