Joe Smith back to CLE?

[KJ33]

Am I the only one here that could (or is it couldn't?) care less if Smith goes to the Cavs or not?

Joe Smith is way better than Mikki Moore, who we can all see adds nothing to our roster. So in the sense that we could have gotten Joe Smith if only we had waited longer, it is very disappointing to me.  

While I wouldn't say that Moore adds "nothing" -- and it's too early to say that, one way or the other -- I do think that he's no better than BBD or Powe.  I think we should have waited, as well, because Smith is just a much better player.

Maybe too early, but early returns are weak from what I see.  We need guys who can rebound, play defense against guys like Gasol and Varajao, and can catch the ball once in a while. I count three strikes against MM on these attributes. I had no idea his hands were so bad, either, negating the 2nd unit dishing skills of Stephon.  I mean, Moore makes Mark Blount look like Varitek.  I am very disappointed so far.

Have you not watched any NBA games before the few minutes Moore has played in the last 2?  The book on Moore has been out there for quite some time, not the best hands, skinny, has a hard time defending rugged bigs, gives max effort, athletic on D, can knock down the midrange J.  Anyone who thought the C's were receiving more than that doesn't understand why he was added which was for depth and length upfront, not as THE piece off the bench to put them over the top(Marbury more fits this bill). 

He probably won't supplant either Powe or Davis as PJ did last year, simply for the fact those 2 are both improved and have different strengths.  What Moore has given the C's, in the very limited role he was sought for, is another option against certain matchups and depth down the stretch with all the injuries.  Surviving the full 82 game NBA season takes more than a few big bodies just to survive physically.  The Celts now have this option, albeit a limited one, whereas before, they did not.  He can only help their chances.

[winsomme]

Had Joe Smith been wanting to come to Boston, and been really optimistic about getting the buyout done, he would have let one of the big 3 know that so that we would have waited for him. Had we not signed Mikki Moore and Joe Smith either didn't get bought out or went to Cleveland for more money everyone would have been complaining that DA did nothing like the Posey situation. From what I have seen so far Mikki has improved our depth at the big spots and plays with the same type of energy and hustle that fits right into what we do. Yes I would have preferred Joe Smith, but the gap isn't big enough to have taken the risk. I like what we have here and when we get KG and Scal back we will have a lot of depth and talent, and a lot of options for matchup advantages.

yeah, but Smith coming here also would have kept him from going to CLE. so the effect is double.

CLE would then have a  huge hole in their front court and no way to fill it...

The assumption I made though was that Joe wasn't too high on coming to Boston or that he wasn't too optimistic he'd get bought out. I know that he knows our guys real well and if he wanted to come here he would have gotten them that message so we waited. Especially once the Mikki rumors started. He could have told one of them that he was going to be bought out and that he'd prefer to come to us. If he didn't, which he didn't, that insinuates very strongly he either wasn't optimistic or he was in favor of going to Cleveland, or he was going to the place with the most money. Cleveland would have offered him more than we could due to them having it, and losing Big Ben. I don't think we were going to get him no matter what. Cleveland would have done the same and offered him more cash to keep him from coming to us.

there's a lot of assumptions in there, though...I mean, there  were also rumblings that he wasn't terribly excited to go back to CLE after they traded him away...

and i just see no logic to OKC not buying him out. he hasn't even been playing. why wouldn't they want to buy him out?

i don't think expecting Smith to get bought out was that much of a roll of the dice. It always seemed pretty certain to me. It's more likely that they just have been quibbling about money.

deadlines tend to iron out those stumbling blocks...

That's actually 2 assumptions. Either he didn't think he was going to be bought out, or he would have preferred to go to Cleveland.

HE knew whether or not he'd prefer to go to Cleveland yet he told our guys nothing. Not too difficult to come to the conclusion he wasn't dying to come to play for us. He WOULD have said something.

He also knew better than anyone whether or not he was likely to get bought out. If he didn't know then our risk was too high. If he did, see the paragraph above. Either way we made the right decision to sign Mikki Moore before someone else offered him a contract and we ended up with nothing.

maybe he did tell them that he wanted to come here. there certainly reports that that conversation took place....

but to assume that there was no scenario that he was coming here and that is why Danny signed Moore belies the scenario that seems more (pun not intended) likely which is that there was no definitive answer on any of the issues (ie whether he would be bought out or if bought out would be willing to come here) and that Danny didn't want to gamble or wait.

what i'm saying is that i see no gamble on the first point because the logic to him not getting bought didn't exist on either side.

and the gamble on the second point, while maybe higher, was still worth it because Smith is enough better than Moore and banking on the lobbying efforts of KG, Paul, Ray and Doc is a pretty strong hand to be going to the table with...

anyway, Moore could work out and i'm not unhappy with him. So i'm not totally depressed by this report. but i do now think that getting home court is of the utmost importance.

[footey]

Am I the only one here that could (or is it couldn't?) care less if Smith goes to the Cavs or not?

Joe Smith is way better than Mikki Moore, who we can all see adds nothing to our roster. So in the sense that we could have gotten Joe Smith if only we had waited longer, it is very disappointing to me.  

Joe Smith is Bill russell.
Cmon now, give me a freakin break
first of all when PJ brown joined this team, he brought nothing, NOTHING in the regular season, Moore in his little action hes seen thus far has done more than PJ did for us in first few months and can bring everything both those guys can...energy, length, midrange jumper. Some celtics fans are turning Joe smith into Hakeem Olajuwon for crying out loud, what a joke
THE GUY ISNT EVEN BOUGHT OUT, obviously has little to no passion to win a championship and is content staying with the thunder. Screw Joe smith, he couldnt guard a chair

Again, the only player we could've gotten that would've been in a different league than Joe smith, Mikki, and even PJ wouldve been Antonio Mcdyess, but he chose to go back to detroit

PJ did not contribute right away because he had sat out the entire season until we signed him.  He needed to get in game shape. He did. He far surpasses Moore as a true back up center. He was a very good rebounder and defender. Look, Moore seems like a super nice guy, is super enthusiastic, and it has only been what, two games (we'll forget the dozens of games with the lowly Kings where his numbers were pretty poor).  But for anyone to suggest that Moore is as good as the PJ signing this season in terms of meeting our team needs, does not have the same view as I on what those needs are.

[twinbree]

I totally agree with this.  We were not getting Smith. He did say he could play in Boston, but he at first said he would like to go back to Cleveland.  Cleveland would have outbid us anyway.  

I believe he wanted to play for Cleveland all along, because when we desperately needed a big, Joe Smith could care less about getting bought out.  Now that Cleveland is desperate, all of a sudden he's getting bought out.  

This whole thing seems orchestrated to me.  Say you don't want to get bought out and hold off until the Celtics sign someone else, then all of a sudden you become available.

Yeah even after the Celtics signed Moore there were no rumblings of him getting bought out until Wallace got hurt. It definitely seems he wasn't that interested in helping out the Celtics who also have bigs injured. I think Danny said Moore wasn't their top choice when he was first waived so they must have signed him thinking their first choice was no longer available. I can't fault the bird in the hand approach.

[winsomme]

Had Joe Smith been wanting to come to Boston, and been really optimistic about getting the buyout done, he would have let one of the big 3 know that so that we would have waited for him. Had we not signed Mikki Moore and Joe Smith either didn't get bought out or went to Cleveland for more money everyone would have been complaining that DA did nothing like the Posey situation. From what I have seen so far Mikki has improved our depth at the big spots and plays with the same type of energy and hustle that fits right into what we do. Yes I would have preferred Joe Smith, but the gap isn't big enough to have taken the risk. I like what we have here and when we get KG and Scal back we will have a lot of depth and talent, and a lot of options for matchup advantages.

yeah, but Smith coming here also would have kept him from going to CLE. so the effect is double.

CLE would then have a  huge hole in their front court and no way to fill it...

The assumption I made though was that Joe wasn't too high on coming to Boston or that he wasn't too optimistic he'd get bought out. I know that he knows our guys real well and if he wanted to come here he would have gotten them that message so we waited. Especially once the Mikki rumors started. He could have told one of them that he was going to be bought out and that he'd prefer to come to us. If he didn't, which he didn't, that insinuates very strongly he either wasn't optimistic or he was in favor of going to Cleveland, or he was going to the place with the most money. Cleveland would have offered him more than we could due to them having it, and losing Big Ben. I don't think we were going to get him no matter what. Cleveland would have done the same and offered him more cash to keep him from coming to us.

I totally agree with this.  We were not getting Smith. He did say he could play in Boston, but he at first said he would like to go back to Cleveland.  Cleveland would have outbid us anyway.  

I believe he wanted to play for Cleveland all along, because when we desperately needed a big, Joe Smith could care less about getting bought out.  Now that Cleveland is desperate, all of a sudden he's getting bought out.  

This whole thing seems orchestrated to me.  Say you don't want to get bought out and hold off until the Celtics sign someone else, then all of a sudden you become available.

i don't understand what you're saying here. what advantage would Smith have waiting to get bought out after the Cs signed someone.

if anything having the Cs out there bidding for your services would increase your position in the marketplace...

the story hasn't changed all of a sudden. The deadline is tomorrow.

the story of agent and the team negotiating has been going on right along....seems more likely to me that the team wanted JS to concede more money. I mean he hasn't played in something like 6 games.....there was no reason for him to stay with the team.

[EarthBall]

Am I the only one here that could (or is it couldn't?) care less if Smith goes to the Cavs or not?

This is pet peeve #21 for me.

The correct phrase is "you couldn't care less." If you could care less, that means you have some non-zero amount of care for the object being discussed, which isn't what you mean.

[BballTim]

Had Joe Smith been wanting to come to Boston, and been really optimistic about getting the buyout done, he would have let one of the big 3 know that so that we would have waited for him. Had we not signed Mikki Moore and Joe Smith either didn't get bought out or went to Cleveland for more money everyone would have been complaining that DA did nothing like the Posey situation. From what I have seen so far Mikki has improved our depth at the big spots and plays with the same type of energy and hustle that fits right into what we do. Yes I would have preferred Joe Smith, but the gap isn't big enough to have taken the risk. I like what we have here and when we get KG and Scal back we will have a lot of depth and talent, and a lot of options for matchup advantages.

yeah, but Smith coming here also would have kept him from going to CLE. so the effect is double.

CLE would then have a  huge hole in their front court and no way to fill it...

The assumption I made though was that Joe wasn't too high on coming to Boston or that he wasn't too optimistic he'd get bought out. I know that he knows our guys real well and if he wanted to come here he would have gotten them that message so we waited. Especially once the Mikki rumors started. He could have told one of them that he was going to be bought out and that he'd prefer to come to us. If he didn't, which he didn't, that insinuates very strongly he either wasn't optimistic or he was in favor of going to Cleveland, or he was going to the place with the most money. Cleveland would have offered him more than we could due to them having it, and losing Big Ben. I don't think we were going to get him no matter what. Cleveland would have done the same and offered him more cash to keep him from coming to us.

I totally agree with this.  We were not getting Smith. He did say he could play in Boston, but he at first said he would like to go back to Cleveland.  Cleveland would have outbid us anyway. 

I believe he wanted to play for Cleveland all along, because when we desperately needed a big, Joe Smith could care less about getting bought out.  Now that Cleveland is desperate, all of a sudden he's getting bought out. 

This whole thing seems orchestrated to me.  Say you don't want to get bought out and hold off until the Celtics sign someone else, then all of a sudden you become available.

i don't understand what you're saying here. what advantage would Smith have waiting to get bought out after the Cs signed someone.

if anything having the Cs out there bidding for your services would increase your position in the marketplace...

the story hasn't changed all of a sudden. The deadline is tomorrow.

the story of agent and the team negotiating has been going on right along....seems more likely to me that the team wanted JS to concede more money. I mean he hasn't played in something like 6 games.....there was no reason for him to stay with the team.

  The C's "bid" for bought out players is generally the veteran's minimum. Cleveland has more money to bid. The fact that he's apparently more likely to get bought out now that Cleveland's in need of front court help does make it likely that he wants to go back there ala McDyess to Detroit.

[billysan]

Had Joe Smith been wanting to come to Boston, and been really optimistic about getting the buyout done, he would have let one of the big 3 know that so that we would have waited for him. Had we not signed Mikki Moore and Joe Smith either didn't get bought out or went to Cleveland for more money everyone would have been complaining that DA did nothing like the Posey situation. From what I have seen so far Mikki has improved our depth at the big spots and plays with the same type of energy and hustle that fits right into what we do. Yes I would have preferred Joe Smith, but the gap isn't big enough to have taken the risk. I like what we have here and when we get KG and Scal back we will have a lot of depth and talent, and a lot of options for matchup advantages.

yeah, but Smith coming here also would have kept him from going to CLE. so the effect is double.

CLE would then have a  huge hole in their front court and no way to fill it...

The assumption I made though was that Joe wasn't too high on coming to Boston or that he wasn't too optimistic he'd get bought out. I know that he knows our guys real well and if he wanted to come here he would have gotten them that message so we waited. Especially once the Mikki rumors started. He could have told one of them that he was going to be bought out and that he'd prefer to come to us. If he didn't, which he didn't, that insinuates very strongly he either wasn't optimistic or he was in favor of going to Cleveland, or he was going to the place with the most money. Cleveland would have offered him more than we could due to them having it, and losing Big Ben. I don't think we were going to get him no matter what. Cleveland would have done the same and offered him more cash to keep him from coming to us.

I totally agree with this.  We were not getting Smith. He did say he could play in Boston, but he at first said he would like to go back to Cleveland.  Cleveland would have outbid us anyway.  

I believe he wanted to play for Cleveland all along, because when we desperately needed a big, Joe Smith could care less about getting bought out.  Now that Cleveland is desperate, all of a sudden he's getting bought out.  

This whole thing seems orchestrated to me.  Say you don't want to get bought out and hold off until the Celtics sign someone else, then all of a sudden you become available.

i don't understand what you're saying here. what advantage would Smith have waiting to get bought out after the Cs signed someone.

if anything having the Cs out there bidding for your services would increase your position in the marketplace...

the story hasn't changed all of a sudden. The deadline is tomorrow.

the story of agent and the team negotiating has been going on right along....seems more likely to me that the team wanted JS to concede more money. I mean he hasn't played in something like 6 games.....there was no reason for him to stay with the team.

Or maybe OKC doesnt want to help a playoff team by buying out Joe Smith. Who knows, other than his agent?

If Smith wanted out, he would have told his agent he wanted out and given instructions to get him out asap. He would not have waited unless he didnt care about the playoffs as much as the money IMO. Cleveland could have made up the difference by agreeing to sign him next year after the season if they really wanted him as well.

The great thing is, everyone is excited and waiting for March 1st to see if another team gets a better 'buy out player' addition than we did. The sports media and agents are having a blast with this.

[Fafnir]

Had Joe Smith been wanting to come to Boston, and been really optimistic about getting the buyout done, he would have let one of the big 3 know that so that we would have waited for him. Had we not signed Mikki Moore and Joe Smith either didn't get bought out or went to Cleveland for more money everyone would have been complaining that DA did nothing like the Posey situation. From what I have seen so far Mikki has improved our depth at the big spots and plays with the same type of energy and hustle that fits right into what we do. Yes I would have preferred Joe Smith, but the gap isn't big enough to have taken the risk. I like what we have here and when we get KG and Scal back we will have a lot of depth and talent, and a lot of options for matchup advantages.

yeah, but Smith coming here also would have kept him from going to CLE. so the effect is double.

CLE would then have a  huge hole in their front court and no way to fill it...

The assumption I made though was that Joe wasn't too high on coming to Boston or that he wasn't too optimistic he'd get bought out. I know that he knows our guys real well and if he wanted to come here he would have gotten them that message so we waited. Especially once the Mikki rumors started. He could have told one of them that he was going to be bought out and that he'd prefer to come to us. If he didn't, which he didn't, that insinuates very strongly he either wasn't optimistic or he was in favor of going to Cleveland, or he was going to the place with the most money. Cleveland would have offered him more than we could due to them having it, and losing Big Ben. I don't think we were going to get him no matter what. Cleveland would have done the same and offered him more cash to keep him from coming to us.

I totally agree with this.  We were not getting Smith. He did say he could play in Boston, but he at first said he would like to go back to Cleveland.  Cleveland would have outbid us anyway. 

I believe he wanted to play for Cleveland all along, because when we desperately needed a big, Joe Smith could care less about getting bought out.  Now that Cleveland is desperate, all of a sudden he's getting bought out. 

This whole thing seems orchestrated to me.  Say you don't want to get bought out and hold off until the Celtics sign someone else, then all of a sudden you become available.

i don't understand what you're saying here. what advantage would Smith have waiting to get bought out after the Cs signed someone.

if anything having the Cs out there bidding for your services would increase your position in the marketplace...

the story hasn't changed all of a sudden. The deadline is tomorrow.

the story of agent and the team negotiating has been going on right along....seems more likely to me that the team wanted JS to concede more money. I mean he hasn't played in something like 6 games.....there was no reason for him to stay with the team.

  The C's "bid" for bought out players is generally the veteran's minimum. Cleveland has more money to bid. The fact that he's apparently more likely to get bought out now that Cleveland's in need of front court help does make it likely that he wants to go back there ala McDyess to Detroit.

Actually we dipped into the MLE to sign Marbury according to ESPN.

So how much our bid was compared to Cleveland could have been a factor. Especially if his agent let people know he'd consider how much money they offered. Especially when he's indicated he would play in either Boston or Cleveland.

[CelticsWhat35]

I think it's pretty obvious now that Smith is going to get bought out.  Unless either side is totally unrealistic about the buyout number, it will get done.  Otherwise, why would he have been sitting out these last 5 or 6 games?

He'll get bought out and sign with the Cavs.  And as much as we might want to deny it, he'll help them.  He's not the piece that's gonna put them over the top.  No matter who they bring in, it comes down much more to how LeBron performs.  But having a big that can spread the floor a bit will definitely help LeBron in getting to the hoop.

[BballTim]

Had Joe Smith been wanting to come to Boston, and been really optimistic about getting the buyout done, he would have let one of the big 3 know that so that we would have waited for him. Had we not signed Mikki Moore and Joe Smith either didn't get bought out or went to Cleveland for more money everyone would have been complaining that DA did nothing like the Posey situation. From what I have seen so far Mikki has improved our depth at the big spots and plays with the same type of energy and hustle that fits right into what we do. Yes I would have preferred Joe Smith, but the gap isn't big enough to have taken the risk. I like what we have here and when we get KG and Scal back we will have a lot of depth and talent, and a lot of options for matchup advantages.

yeah, but Smith coming here also would have kept him from going to CLE. so the effect is double.

CLE would then have a  huge hole in their front court and no way to fill it...

The assumption I made though was that Joe wasn't too high on coming to Boston or that he wasn't too optimistic he'd get bought out. I know that he knows our guys real well and if he wanted to come here he would have gotten them that message so we waited. Especially once the Mikki rumors started. He could have told one of them that he was going to be bought out and that he'd prefer to come to us. If he didn't, which he didn't, that insinuates very strongly he either wasn't optimistic or he was in favor of going to Cleveland, or he was going to the place with the most money. Cleveland would have offered him more than we could due to them having it, and losing Big Ben. I don't think we were going to get him no matter what. Cleveland would have done the same and offered him more cash to keep him from coming to us.

I totally agree with this.  We were not getting Smith. He did say he could play in Boston, but he at first said he would like to go back to Cleveland.  Cleveland would have outbid us anyway. 

I believe he wanted to play for Cleveland all along, because when we desperately needed a big, Joe Smith could care less about getting bought out.  Now that Cleveland is desperate, all of a sudden he's getting bought out. 

This whole thing seems orchestrated to me.  Say you don't want to get bought out and hold off until the Celtics sign someone else, then all of a sudden you become available.

i don't understand what you're saying here. what advantage would Smith have waiting to get bought out after the Cs signed someone.

if anything having the Cs out there bidding for your services would increase your position in the marketplace...

the story hasn't changed all of a sudden. The deadline is tomorrow.

the story of agent and the team negotiating has been going on right along....seems more likely to me that the team wanted JS to concede more money. I mean he hasn't played in something like 6 games.....there was no reason for him to stay with the team.

  The C's "bid" for bought out players is generally the veteran's minimum. Cleveland has more money to bid. The fact that he's apparently more likely to get bought out now that Cleveland's in need of front court help does make it likely that he wants to go back there ala McDyess to Detroit.

Actually we dipped into the MLE to sign Marbury according to ESPN.

So how much our bid was compared to Cleveland could have been a factor. Especially if his agent let people know he'd consider how much money they offered. Especially when he's indicated he would play in either Boston or Cleveland.

  I think they had at least twice the money we had before we signed Marbury. We couldn't even make a competitive offer if money was an issue and Cleveland wanted him.

[winsomme]

Had Joe Smith been wanting to come to Boston, and been really optimistic about getting the buyout done, he would have let one of the big 3 know that so that we would have waited for him. Had we not signed Mikki Moore and Joe Smith either didn't get bought out or went to Cleveland for more money everyone would have been complaining that DA did nothing like the Posey situation. From what I have seen so far Mikki has improved our depth at the big spots and plays with the same type of energy and hustle that fits right into what we do. Yes I would have preferred Joe Smith, but the gap isn't big enough to have taken the risk. I like what we have here and when we get KG and Scal back we will have a lot of depth and talent, and a lot of options for matchup advantages.

yeah, but Smith coming here also would have kept him from going to CLE. so the effect is double.

CLE would then have a  huge hole in their front court and no way to fill it...

The assumption I made though was that Joe wasn't too high on coming to Boston or that he wasn't too optimistic he'd get bought out. I know that he knows our guys real well and if he wanted to come here he would have gotten them that message so we waited. Especially once the Mikki rumors started. He could have told one of them that he was going to be bought out and that he'd prefer to come to us. If he didn't, which he didn't, that insinuates very strongly he either wasn't optimistic or he was in favor of going to Cleveland, or he was going to the place with the most money. Cleveland would have offered him more than we could due to them having it, and losing Big Ben. I don't think we were going to get him no matter what. Cleveland would have done the same and offered him more cash to keep him from coming to us.

I totally agree with this.  We were not getting Smith. He did say he could play in Boston, but he at first said he would like to go back to Cleveland.  Cleveland would have outbid us anyway. 

I believe he wanted to play for Cleveland all along, because when we desperately needed a big, Joe Smith could care less about getting bought out.  Now that Cleveland is desperate, all of a sudden he's getting bought out. 

This whole thing seems orchestrated to me.  Say you don't want to get bought out and hold off until the Celtics sign someone else, then all of a sudden you become available.

i don't understand what you're saying here. what advantage would Smith have waiting to get bought out after the Cs signed someone.

if anything having the Cs out there bidding for your services would increase your position in the marketplace...

the story hasn't changed all of a sudden. The deadline is tomorrow.

the story of agent and the team negotiating has been going on right along....seems more likely to me that the team wanted JS to concede more money. I mean he hasn't played in something like 6 games.....there was no reason for him to stay with the team.

  The C's "bid" for bought out players is generally the veteran's minimum. Cleveland has more money to bid. The fact that he's apparently more likely to get bought out now that Cleveland's in need of front court help does make it likely that he wants to go back there ala McDyess to Detroit.

the likelihood of him getting bought out seems the same today as it did a week ago: extremely high.

the public comments from both sides have remained unchanged in the past two days. OKC says they like having him and Smith says he doesn't really know anything about a buyout offer.

the reports from behind the scenes remain unchanged too: both sides are working on a buyout, but its not a certainty...

the guy hasn't played in 6 games on a team that is in "lottery positioning"-mode....the likelihood of him getting bought out was always high. that's what i see anyway.

[winsomme]

Had Joe Smith been wanting to come to Boston, and been really optimistic about getting the buyout done, he would have let one of the big 3 know that so that we would have waited for him. Had we not signed Mikki Moore and Joe Smith either didn't get bought out or went to Cleveland for more money everyone would have been complaining that DA did nothing like the Posey situation. From what I have seen so far Mikki has improved our depth at the big spots and plays with the same type of energy and hustle that fits right into what we do. Yes I would have preferred Joe Smith, but the gap isn't big enough to have taken the risk. I like what we have here and when we get KG and Scal back we will have a lot of depth and talent, and a lot of options for matchup advantages.

yeah, but Smith coming here also would have kept him from going to CLE. so the effect is double.

CLE would then have a  huge hole in their front court and no way to fill it...

The assumption I made though was that Joe wasn't too high on coming to Boston or that he wasn't too optimistic he'd get bought out. I know that he knows our guys real well and if he wanted to come here he would have gotten them that message so we waited. Especially once the Mikki rumors started. He could have told one of them that he was going to be bought out and that he'd prefer to come to us. If he didn't, which he didn't, that insinuates very strongly he either wasn't optimistic or he was in favor of going to Cleveland, or he was going to the place with the most money. Cleveland would have offered him more than we could due to them having it, and losing Big Ben. I don't think we were going to get him no matter what. Cleveland would have done the same and offered him more cash to keep him from coming to us.

I totally agree with this.  We were not getting Smith. He did say he could play in Boston, but he at first said he would like to go back to Cleveland.  Cleveland would have outbid us anyway. 

I believe he wanted to play for Cleveland all along, because when we desperately needed a big, Joe Smith could care less about getting bought out.  Now that Cleveland is desperate, all of a sudden he's getting bought out. 

This whole thing seems orchestrated to me.  Say you don't want to get bought out and hold off until the Celtics sign someone else, then all of a sudden you become available.

i don't understand what you're saying here. what advantage would Smith have waiting to get bought out after the Cs signed someone.

if anything having the Cs out there bidding for your services would increase your position in the marketplace...

the story hasn't changed all of a sudden. The deadline is tomorrow.

the story of agent and the team negotiating has been going on right along....seems more likely to me that the team wanted JS to concede more money. I mean he hasn't played in something like 6 games.....there was no reason for him to stay with the team.

  The C's "bid" for bought out players is generally the veteran's minimum. Cleveland has more money to bid. The fact that he's apparently more likely to get bought out now that Cleveland's in need of front court help does make it likely that he wants to go back there ala McDyess to Detroit.

Actually we dipped into the MLE to sign Marbury according to ESPN.

So how much our bid was compared to Cleveland could have been a factor. Especially if his agent let people know he'd consider how much money they offered. Especially when he's indicated he would play in either Boston or Cleveland.

  I think they had at least twice the money we had before we signed Marbury. We couldn't even make a competitive offer if money was an issue and Cleveland wanted him.

but if we were actually holding out for Smith, then maybe we could have held more money for him.

we don't really know what Smith's thinking is. For all we know, we could have put the full court press on him with Doc, KG, Paul and Ray got it done....maybe we sign him for next year too...

[Cman]

I can't fault the bird in the hand approach.

Nor can I.

Will Joe Smith likely end up with the Cavs?  Yes.
Will he help the Cavs? Yes.
Would he have helped the Celtics more than Moore will help the Celtics? Yes.
Would he have signed with the Celtics instead? Debatable.

[winsomme]

Had Joe Smith been wanting to come to Boston, and been really optimistic about getting the buyout done, he would have let one of the big 3 know that so that we would have waited for him. Had we not signed Mikki Moore and Joe Smith either didn't get bought out or went to Cleveland for more money everyone would have been complaining that DA did nothing like the Posey situation. From what I have seen so far Mikki has improved our depth at the big spots and plays with the same type of energy and hustle that fits right into what we do. Yes I would have preferred Joe Smith, but the gap isn't big enough to have taken the risk. I like what we have here and when we get KG and Scal back we will have a lot of depth and talent, and a lot of options for matchup advantages.

yeah, but Smith coming here also would have kept him from going to CLE. so the effect is double.

CLE would then have a  huge hole in their front court and no way to fill it...

The assumption I made though was that Joe wasn't too high on coming to Boston or that he wasn't too optimistic he'd get bought out. I know that he knows our guys real well and if he wanted to come here he would have gotten them that message so we waited. Especially once the Mikki rumors started. He could have told one of them that he was going to be bought out and that he'd prefer to come to us. If he didn't, which he didn't, that insinuates very strongly he either wasn't optimistic or he was in favor of going to Cleveland, or he was going to the place with the most money. Cleveland would have offered him more than we could due to them having it, and losing Big Ben. I don't think we were going to get him no matter what. Cleveland would have done the same and offered him more cash to keep him from coming to us.

I totally agree with this.  We were not getting Smith. He did say he could play in Boston, but he at first said he would like to go back to Cleveland.  Cleveland would have outbid us anyway. 

I believe he wanted to play for Cleveland all along, because when we desperately needed a big, Joe Smith could care less about getting bought out.  Now that Cleveland is desperate, all of a sudden he's getting bought out. 

This whole thing seems orchestrated to me.  Say you don't want to get bought out and hold off until the Celtics sign someone else, then all of a sudden you become available.

i don't understand what you're saying here. what advantage would Smith have waiting to get bought out after the Cs signed someone.

if anything having the Cs out there bidding for your services would increase your position in the marketplace...

the story hasn't changed all of a sudden. The deadline is tomorrow.

the story of agent and the team negotiating has been going on right along....seems more likely to me that the team wanted JS to concede more money. I mean he hasn't played in something like 6 games.....there was no reason for him to stay with the team.

  The C's "bid" for bought out players is generally the veteran's minimum. Cleveland has more money to bid. The fact that he's apparently more likely to get bought out now that Cleveland's in need of front court help does make it likely that he wants to go back there ala McDyess to Detroit.

Actually we dipped into the MLE to sign Marbury according to ESPN.

So how much our bid was compared to Cleveland could have been a factor. Especially if his agent let people know he'd consider how much money they offered. Especially when he's indicated he would play in either Boston or Cleveland.

  I think they had at least twice the money we had before we signed Marbury. We couldn't even make a competitive offer if money was an issue and Cleveland wanted him.

how do we know how much CLE is even willing to spend?

they're already spending nearly 22 million more than us. are they really going to go another 6-8 mil?