Author Topic: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose  (Read 7068 times)

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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #45 on: March 20, 2019, 11:16:04 AM »

Offline RPGenerate

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And JB, Smart, Tatum, Terry and Al have already proven what their capable of under playoff pressure.  Questioning those guys now because the coaching staff hasn't gotten it together is kind of retarded.

Coaching is only part of the problem, though.  Guys like Tatum & Rozier look like they've regressed to an extent from last year.   That's on them to a degree.

Agreed.  The most interesting regression for Tatum has been the corner three.  He shot 56% from the corner last year, as opposed to only 33% this season.  The decline started as soon as he was asked to become more than a "role player", with the playoffs being a perfect example.  As others have mentioned, Tatum has a tendency to let shooting struggles affect his defensive effort.

It just goes to show how difficult it can be to make the jump from a "role" player to "star" player.  The second year growing pains are no surprise.  All I care about is that he gives max effort in the playoffs regardless of whether or not the shots are falling.

Next year we should expect a major jump from Tatum.

I don't blame Tatum or any other player for their defensive issues. That is most definitely a coaching issue. And a system issue.

I'll tell you why...switching breeds weak defense because it tells the player to give a half ass effort because the next man will get him. You can never hold your ground because everyone's constantly sliding out of the way.

I absolutely HATE that defensive scheme. It should only be used in spots to give a different look or stop a run.

I wish Brad would take that and just go.  The fact he never changes that is why I want him gone.

Like tomorrow.
Oh boy, another excuse for the young guys. It's all the coaching. I've heard Byron Scott and Vinny del Negro are available, so maybe they could unclip our angel's wings.
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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2019, 11:21:17 AM »

Offline Green-18

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And JB, Smart, Tatum, Terry and Al have already proven what their capable of under playoff pressure.  Questioning those guys now because the coaching staff hasn't gotten it together is kind of retarded.

Coaching is only part of the problem, though.  Guys like Tatum & Rozier look like they've regressed to an extent from last year.   That's on them to a degree.

Agreed.  The most interesting regression for Tatum has been the corner three.  He shot 56% from the corner last year, as opposed to only 33% this season.  The decline started as soon as he was asked to become more than a "role player", with the playoffs being a perfect example.  As others have mentioned, Tatum has a tendency to let shooting struggles affect his defensive effort.

It just goes to show how difficult it can be to make the jump from a "role" player to "star" player.  The second year growing pains are no surprise.  All I care about is that he gives max effort in the playoffs regardless of whether or not the shots are falling.

Next year we should expect a major jump from Tatum.

I don't blame Tatum or any other player for their defensive issues. That is most definitely a coaching issue. And a system issue.

I'll tell you why...switching breeds weak defense because it tells the player to give a half ass effort because the next man will get him. You can never hold your ground because everyone's constantly sliding out of the way.

I absolutely HATE that defensive scheme. It should only be used in spots to give a different look or stop a run.

I wish Brad would take that and just go.  The fact he never changes that is why I want him gone.

Like tomorrow.

This team has the right personal to make the switching work, assuming that there is maximum effort and focus.  The Celtics were an elite defensive team at home during last years playoffs.  Only the Warriors were better.  I would be much more critical of Stevens regarding the teams postseason road struggles.  The home/road disparity cannot be attributed to scheme. 

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2019, 11:25:17 AM »

Offline apc

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Hayward isn't going to make a miraculous comeback this year. Sit Kyrie for the last 5 games. We need to quickly instill confidence in Brown and Tatum. Horford is the anchor if Broen and Tatum play like last year we are in the Finals.

Brown had earned the right to start. He's been a good soldier. Brown and Baynes in...Smart and Morris out.

You got what you wish for:

Kyrie Irving: “I’m definitely taking some games off before the playoffs. It just makes no sense to put emphasis on these regular-season games when you know you’re gearing up for some battles coming in the playoffs.”

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2019, 11:25:41 AM »

Offline Triplenickle

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And JB, Smart, Tatum, Terry and Al have already proven what their capable of under playoff pressure.  Questioning those guys now because the coaching staff hasn't gotten it together is kind of retarded.

Coaching is only part of the problem, though.  Guys like Tatum & Rozier look like they've regressed to an extent from last year.   That's on them to a degree.

Man, yall need to give that dude some slack. He has taken the biggest hit and biggest burden of anyone. He was a HUGE part of why they overacheived and then they demote him to wannamaker status IN A CONTRACT YEAR...basically just because Kyrie looks good scoring, and they want to keep him happy at the expense of Terry. There's something inherently wrong with that even though I understand it.

Terry is also alot better than yall give him credit for, but his minutes are spotty and he can't get in a rythm...then there's the hit to his confidence and the lack of trust the coaching staff has shown him.

And after all that he's still the player that ball-hawked, rebounded, and forced the team to run to the ECF.

People in New england have a bad habit of crapping on their best gems.

I almost wish they would trade him and yall see him three years from now, and Danny's still chasing his tail trying to find pieces he already had.

About as bone-headed as Pitino.

Also, a point needs to feel like it's "his team". He had that in the playoffs, and they took it all away from him this year, so why would you expect him to play like it's his team?

He's in a totally different position now and plays like it.

If he can't adapt to the system, then that's an indictment on Rozier & not the coaching staff.  Buy into the team concept & the role you're given whatever that may be.

If he's fussy because "his role was taken away from him" and this year's play is a reaction to that, then let him leave in free agency.  Find me cheaper alternative backup PG who will buy into the team concept & system.

I hope he does that at this point. It's in his best interest to get away from this team, coaching staff, system and "fans".

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2019, 11:44:44 AM »

Offline Triplenickle

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And JB, Smart, Tatum, Terry and Al have already proven what their capable of under playoff pressure.  Questioning those guys now because the coaching staff hasn't gotten it together is kind of retarded.

Coaching is only part of the problem, though.  Guys like Tatum & Rozier look like they've regressed to an extent from last year.   That's on them to a degree.

Agreed.  The most interesting regression for Tatum has been the corner three.  He shot 56% from the corner last year, as opposed to only 33% this season.  The decline started as soon as he was asked to become more than a "role player", with the playoffs being a perfect example.  As others have mentioned, Tatum has a tendency to let shooting struggles affect his defensive effort.

It just goes to show how difficult it can be to make the jump from a "role" player to "star" player.  The second year growing pains are no surprise.  All I care about is that he gives max effort in the playoffs regardless of whether or not the shots are falling.

Next year we should expect a major jump from Tatum.

I don't blame Tatum or any other player for their defensive issues. That is most definitely a coaching issue. And a system issue.

I'll tell you why...switching breeds weak defense because it tells the player to give a half ass effort because the next man will get him. You can never hold your ground because everyone's constantly sliding out of the way.

I absolutely HATE that defensive scheme. It should only be used in spots to give a different look or stop a run.

I wish Brad would take that and just go.  The fact he never changes that is why I want him gone.

Like tomorrow.

This team has the right personal to make the switching work, assuming that there is maximum effort and focus.  The Celtics were an elite defensive team at home during last years playoffs.  Only the Warriors were better.  I would be much more critical of Stevens regarding the teams postseason road struggles.  The home/road disparity cannot be attributed to scheme.

This board keeps kicking me out while i'm typing. Makes me think i'm being silenced or something.

Anyway I'll try again.  Morris, Hayward, and all the bigs are being hurt from that scheme. They are not quick enough period. If a coaching staff can't coach to a team's strengths, what's the point of having him there.

Small ball for a team that's not small? Same problems all year?

Nah man...i'll take another coach, thanks

Oh, and last year the numbers said they were elite...but when it was time to advance Lebron made sure they didn't stop anything ...from him to Thompson, to Love to their shooters.

They knew that mess was a mirage and a gimmick when the game was on the line.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2019, 11:46:15 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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And JB, Smart, Tatum, Terry and Al have already proven what their capable of under playoff pressure.  Questioning those guys now because the coaching staff hasn't gotten it together is kind of retarded.

Coaching is only part of the problem, though.  Guys like Tatum & Rozier look like they've regressed to an extent from last year.   That's on them to a degree.

Agreed.  The most interesting regression for Tatum has been the corner three.  He shot 56% from the corner last year, as opposed to only 33% this season.  The decline started as soon as he was asked to become more than a "role player", with the playoffs being a perfect example.  As others have mentioned, Tatum has a tendency to let shooting struggles affect his defensive effort.

It just goes to show how difficult it can be to make the jump from a "role" player to "star" player.  The second year growing pains are no surprise.  All I care about is that he gives max effort in the playoffs regardless of whether or not the shots are falling.

Next year we should expect a major jump from Tatum.

The thing is, Tatum was never gonna repeat his 3pnt shooting performance from last year. He shot an unsustainably high percentage from the corner that was literally one of the best marks ever posted (for that volume). And his 43% overall was way higher than most projection systems predicted he would end up. The 36% he's at this year is closer to what most people thought he would be. I think a lot of disappointment with Tatum is based off the fact that he was soooo good his rookie year that it was gonna be hard for him to make substantial improvement off that AND increase his volume, yet so many took it as a near certainty. Its just a reminder that development isn't linear. It wouldn't surprise me at all if JB and/or JT came back next year and were better than they were last year making this year just a blip, especially if we thin out the roster a little to give them the opportunity to be comfortable in the offense. 

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2019, 11:51:37 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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This board keeps kicking me out while i'm typing. Makes me think i'm being silenced or something.

Yeah, that's not happening.


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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2019, 12:00:02 PM »

Offline Triplenickle

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This board keeps kicking me out while i'm typing. Makes me think i'm being silenced or something.

Yeah, that's not happening.

Fair enough, but it says 60 minutes while it keeps logging me out while i'm typing.

I dunno...very annoying though

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2019, 12:23:18 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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Both play enough minutes to more than thrive. Unfortunately, both have similar deficiencies, poor court vision, mistake-prone on defense, below average passers, and bad shots.

Last year was the culmination of the weakest Eastern Conference in the last 5 years. Cleveland could have been beaten by 3 teams in the West. Last years playoff team would be a 500 club this year.   

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2019, 01:08:33 PM »

Offline gpap

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Hayward isn't going to make a miraculous comeback this year. Sit Kyrie for the last 5 games. We need to quickly instill confidence in Brown and Tatum. Horford is the anchor if Broen and Tatum play like last year we are in the Finals.

Brown had earned the right to start. He's been a good soldier. Brown and Baynes in...Smart and Morris out.

You got what you wish for:

Kyrie Irving: “I’m definitely taking some games off before the playoffs. It just makes no sense to put emphasis on these regular-season games when you know you’re gearing up for some battles coming in the playoffs.”

I think it's only a couple games which we sorta expected anyway.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2019, 01:14:56 PM »

Offline gpap

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The point of sitting Kyrie is to let the other guys feel like the man and not have the crutch of Kyrie saving them.

Pacers have a brutal schedule.

I wouldn't even play Kyrie or Horford tomorrow vs Philly. Do not give them any confidence and keeping those two out wouldnt give them anything on video to gameplan against.

We arent dropping past the 5th seed. Time to also start playing Williams.

These guys are professional athletes not 3rd graders.
Yeah, treating them like children has been part of the problem IMO
A seemingly common concensus among Kyrie haters is that our young guys are spoiled 5 year-old brats who need to be coddled and pampered.

Nothing to do with coddling or pampering. It has everything to do with playing in a stagnant offense with a ball-dominant point guard that hinders their ability to find an offensive rhythm. Was last season a mirage ? Did Brown and Tatum suddenly become inferior players, both during the same season ?

With due respect, you're ignoring Kyrie's talent and ability. He's (hopefully) our franchise player and our hopes for a title rest on his shoulders (much to your dismay.)

Last year's playoffs weren't a mirage but there was some luck involved. They beat an inferior Milwaukee and Philly team, not to mention they may not even beat Milwaukee if not for HCA.

In game 7 of the ECF vs a mediocre Cavs team, they couldn't get the job done. So in reality, last year's squad didn't really accomplish anything. Also, they were just as good last season before Kyrie got hurt.

And yes, Tatum has regressed this season. Not saying he won't regain his form, because I am sure he will. But if you think a Rozier/Smart/Tatum/Brown/Horford lineup is good enough to win a championship, it's not. Not even close.

That was proven in the playoffs.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2019, 01:34:43 PM »

Offline td450

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The point of sitting Kyrie is to let the other guys feel like the man and not have the crutch of Kyrie saving them.

Pacers have a brutal schedule.

I wouldn't even play Kyrie or Horford tomorrow vs Philly. Do not give them any confidence and keeping those two out wouldnt give them anything on video to gameplan against.

We arent dropping past the 5th seed. Time to also start playing Williams.

These guys are professional athletes not 3rd graders.
Yeah, treating them like children has been part of the problem IMO
A seemingly common concensus among Kyrie haters is that our young guys are spoiled 5 year-old brats who need to be coddled and pampered.

Nothing to do with coddling or pampering. It has everything to do with playing in a stagnant offense with a ball-dominant point guard that hinders their ability to find an offensive rhythm. Was last season a mirage ? Did Brown and Tatum suddenly become inferior players, both during the same season ?

With due respect, you're ignoring Kyrie's talent and ability. He's (hopefully) our franchise player and our hopes for a title rest on his shoulders (much to your dismay.)

Last year's playoffs weren't a mirage but there was some luck involved. They beat an inferior Milwaukee and Philly team, not to mention they may not even beat Milwaukee if not for HCA.

In game 7 of the ECF vs a mediocre Cavs team, they couldn't get the job done. So in reality, last year's squad didn't really accomplish anything. Also, they were just as good last season before Kyrie got hurt.

And yes, Tatum has regressed this season. Not saying he won't regain his form, because I am sure he will. But if you think a Rozier/Smart/Tatum/Brown/Horford lineup is good enough to win a championship, it's not. Not even close.

That was proven in the playoffs.

Kyrie is our best player. But our title hopes have rested on the development of Tatum and Brown, and the degree of recovery of Hayward.

Rozier and Smart are support players.  Rozier has been disappointing and Smart has been pleasantly surprising, but they aren't going to determine this team's destiny.

Kyrie is our most productive player, but he isn't a generational talent, and he can't drag this team to a title. We are going as far as Tatum, Brown and Hayward take us.

I appreciate Kyrie's amazing talent as a iso scorer, but his ability to maximize the talents of those three guys will determine his legacy here. Unless the team gets restructured, that's going to be true for the foreseeable future.


Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2019, 03:08:56 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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Hayward isn't going to make a miraculous comeback this year. Sit Kyrie for the last 5 games. We need to quickly instill confidence in Brown and Tatum. Horford is the anchor if Broen and Tatum play like last year we are in the Finals.

Brown had earned the right to start. He's been a good soldier. Brown and Baynes in...Smart and Morris out.

You got what you wish for:

Kyrie Irving: “I’m definitely taking some games off before the playoffs. It just makes no sense to put emphasis on these regular-season games when you know you’re gearing up for some battles coming in the playoffs.”

Rumor has it Gordon Hayward has also been saving his body for the playoffs.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2019, 03:40:15 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Hayward isn't going to make a miraculous comeback this year. Sit Kyrie for the last 5 games. We need to quickly instill confidence in Brown and Tatum. Horford is the anchor if Broen and Tatum play like last year we are in the Finals.

Brown had earned the right to start. He's been a good soldier. Brown and Baynes in...Smart and Morris out.

You got what you wish for:

Kyrie Irving: “I’m definitely taking some games off before the playoffs. It just makes no sense to put emphasis on these regular-season games when you know you’re gearing up for some battles coming in the playoffs.”
Most likely Kyrie will be taking the Cleveland, Orlando and Washington games off. The Celtics should still easily win those game without Kyrie. The games with Orlando and Washington may be unimportant as they are the last two games and the seedings may already be set in stone.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2019, 03:49:25 PM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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get the 4th seed locked up then rest kyrie and horford for playoffs. we need them healed and fresh
LET'S GO CELTICS!