Author Topic: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?  (Read 13752 times)

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Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #60 on: August 24, 2019, 05:48:21 PM »

Offline RPGenerate

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In this nba teams would make shaq irrelevant.

Yes he could score. Yes he could get rebounds.

But he wouldnt even be able to keep up with the speed of players. He would gas.

Imagine shaq trying to defend a pg on a switch? Teams didnt switch defensively in the past like they do today...and that is due to the importance and reliance on the 3pt shot.

Any team playing shaq would be substituting 3pter for 2pters

Look at all the big, truely big players in the last 10 years. Boban for example, is a strong as shaq, bigger than shaq, and is essentially useless except for bench minutes

Absolutely nailed it. The 3 point shot wasn’t the go to offense in Shaqs day. His largest weakness on defense was PnR switches. With the rise of 3s came more PnRs as the exploitative tactic to create a 3 (teams must either go under the pick and cede a 3 or go over the pick and either give up a drive or switch.) Shaq would have only been hindered in today’s league. I’m not saying he wouldn’t have been a great player (Embiid is able to survive) but he would have had a harder time.

I do not see a world where prime Shaq is abused on defense on a nightly basis. Yes I could see some teams some nights spin him in circles but he's getting that back and more on the other end.

Legit disrespect happening on Shaq in the softest NBA I've ever seen.

You 2 are trolling for the sake of argument in the off-season right?

Do we not remember prime Shaq?
Dude just said Ben Wallace and Hakeem routinely shut down Shaq. I doubt they were alive in his prime.
To be fair Hakeem did dominate Shaq until Hakeem got old.  Now obviously Shaq wasn't quite in his prime, but that 95 Finals Hakeem was the better player, which is why the Rockets swept the Magic.
Sure, Hakeem outplayed Shaq that series, but it wasn't like Shaq fell apart. I don't consider putting up 28/12.5 on nearly 60% percent shooting as "being dominated". Other then that series, the head-to-head matchups throughout their career show them as being fairly even, when accounting for times where Hakeem was older, or Shaq was a rookie.
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C: Ben Wallace / Andrew Bynum

Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #61 on: August 24, 2019, 08:29:10 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Whos gonna defend him ?

Shaq gets anything he wants in the paint while opponents only feel the pain and reach for " Icey Hot " after the game  :)

Shaqs hand fits nicely around Dramond Greens neck as he reachs up with,the other arm and slam it though the basket.

Hakeem and wallace routinely shut shaq down.

Its not an impossible thing at all.

You're being ridiculous.

Show me stats / footage where this happened.

Don't be foolish.

Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #62 on: August 24, 2019, 08:43:19 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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In this nba teams would make shaq irrelevant.

Yes he could score. Yes he could get rebounds.

But he wouldnt even be able to keep up with the speed of players. He would gas.

Imagine shaq trying to defend a pg on a switch? Teams didnt switch defensively in the past like they do today...and that is due to the importance and reliance on the 3pt shot.

Any team playing shaq would be substituting 3pter for 2pters

Look at all the big, truely big players in the last 10 years. Boban for example, is a strong as shaq, bigger than shaq, and is essentially useless except for bench minutes

Shaq made 3 All-Defensive 2nd teams in his career - one of them being his Finals MVP season.

He is nowhere near as bad as you state. Please stop trolling and post facts / statistics if you are able to.

Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #63 on: August 24, 2019, 09:34:05 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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In this nba teams would make shaq irrelevant.

Yes he could score. Yes he could get rebounds.

But he wouldnt even be able to keep up with the speed of players. He would gas.

Imagine shaq trying to defend a pg on a switch? Teams didnt switch defensively in the past like they do today...and that is due to the importance and reliance on the 3pt shot.

Any team playing shaq would be substituting 3pter for 2pters

Look at all the big, truely big players in the last 10 years. Boban for example, is a strong as shaq, bigger than shaq, and is essentially useless except for bench minutes

Absolutely nailed it. The 3 point shot wasn’t the go to offense in Shaqs day. His largest weakness on defense was PnR switches. With the rise of 3s came more PnRs as the exploitative tactic to create a 3 (teams must either go under the pick and cede a 3 or go over the pick and either give up a drive or switch.) Shaq would have only been hindered in today’s league. I’m not saying he wouldn’t have been a great player (Embiid is able to survive) but he would have had a harder time.

I do not see a world where prime Shaq is abused on defense on a nightly basis. Yes I could see some teams some nights spin him in circles but he's getting that back and more on the other end.

Legit disrespect happening on Shaq in the softest NBA I've ever seen.

You 2 are trolling for the sake of argument in the off-season right?

Do we not remember prime Shaq?
Dude just said Ben Wallace and Hakeem routinely shut down Shaq. I doubt they were alive in his prime.
To be fair Hakeem did dominate Shaq until Hakeem got old.  Now obviously Shaq wasn't quite in his prime, but that 95 Finals Hakeem was the better player, which is why the Rockets swept the Magic.

It appears to ME at least - via these stats - that Shaq and Hakeem were rather close talent wise even when Shaq was young - and in some areas better.

Take a look for yourself.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=Shaquille+O%27Neal&player_id1_select=Shaquille+O%27Neal&player_id1=onealsh01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Hakeem+Olajuwon&player_id2_select=Hakeem+Olajuwon&player_id2=olajuha01&idx=players

And Shaq appeared to obliterate Hakeem as he got older.

Thank Goodness that MJ went to MLB and gave Hakeem the opportunity to get his two rings. Without those, the ring count would be 4-0 Shaq.

Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #64 on: August 24, 2019, 09:34:07 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Oh boy. Some posters are better off just making silly Hayward trade scenarios

The amount of disrespect Shaq is getting in this thread is unbelievable. People are confusing Shaq old years with his prime years.

Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #65 on: August 24, 2019, 09:38:19 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Oh boy. Some posters are better off just making silly Hayward trade scenarios

The amount of disrespect Shaq is getting in this thread is unbelievable. People are confusing Shaq old years with his prime years.

There is something else going on here, as well.

Moranis, Gouki and Silky are playing - as well as myself - in the Historical Draft game. ANY thing they can do to discredit Shaq (the player I drafted) and sway the votes THEIR way the better for them.

The unfortunate thing is that this thread started BEFORE that Hist. Draft game. TBH I wish it wasn't even here. It is a distraction AND it's gone off subject.

I wish the mods would just shut it down - oh wait Moranis and Gouki ARE mods.

Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #66 on: August 24, 2019, 09:57:41 PM »

Offline Silky

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In this nba teams would make shaq irrelevant.

Yes he could score. Yes he could get rebounds.

But he wouldnt even be able to keep up with the speed of players. He would gas.

Imagine shaq trying to defend a pg on a switch? Teams didnt switch defensively in the past like they do today...and that is due to the importance and reliance on the 3pt shot.

Any team playing shaq would be substituting 3pter for 2pters

Look at all the big, truely big players in the last 10 years. Boban for example, is a strong as shaq, bigger than shaq, and is essentially useless except for bench minutes

Shaq made 3 All-Defensive 2nd teams in his career - one of them being his Finals MVP season.

He is nowhere near as bad as you state. Please stop trolling and post facts / statistics if you are able to.

Shaq got nba all defensive teams for rebounds.

Not once in his career did he lead the league in steals or rebounds or defensive rating or defensive win shares.

He would score in todays game but would, just like guys like baynes, jonas, boban, cousins, howard(who was far more athletic than shaq) amd other big bodies centers, get caught on switches and get attacked offensively.

The game is much different.

The game has left guys like him behind

I dont even know if shaq is a top 5 center all time.



Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #67 on: August 24, 2019, 09:59:57 PM »

Offline Silky

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In this nba teams would make shaq irrelevant.

Yes he could score. Yes he could get rebounds.

But he wouldnt even be able to keep up with the speed of players. He would gas.

Imagine shaq trying to defend a pg on a switch? Teams didnt switch defensively in the past like they do today...and that is due to the importance and reliance on the 3pt shot.

Any team playing shaq would be substituting 3pter for 2pters

Look at all the big, truely big players in the last 10 years. Boban for example, is a strong as shaq, bigger than shaq, and is essentially useless except for bench minutes

Interesting opposing view

Though Boban is not in the same league as Shaq. Cmon now

Absolutely isnt. But he is the only guy with the same amount of physicallity in the league today

Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #68 on: August 24, 2019, 10:09:31 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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In this nba teams would make shaq irrelevant.

Yes he could score. Yes he could get rebounds.

But he wouldnt even be able to keep up with the speed of players. He would gas.

Imagine shaq trying to defend a pg on a switch? Teams didnt switch defensively in the past like they do today...and that is due to the importance and reliance on the 3pt shot.

Any team playing shaq would be substituting 3pter for 2pters

Look at all the big, truely big players in the last 10 years. Boban for example, is a strong as shaq, bigger than shaq, and is essentially useless except for bench minutes

Shaq made 3 All-Defensive 2nd teams in his career - one of them being his Finals MVP season.

He is nowhere near as bad as you state. Please stop trolling and post facts / statistics if you are able to.

Shaq got nba all defensive teams for rebounds.

Not once in his career did he lead the league in steals or rebounds or defensive rating or defensive win shares.

He would score in todays game but would, just like guys like baynes, jonas, boban, cousins, howard(who was far more athletic than shaq) amd other big bodies centers, get caught on switches and get attacked offensively.

The game is much different.

The game has left guys like him behind

I dont even know if shaq is a top 5 center all time.

You are getting your information from a friend or someone with a bias against Shaq.

Until you post credible statistics / facts to back up your claims you don't know what you are talking about.

When I first joined this Blog when it was CelticsBLOG one of the first things folks here told me was to post STATS / LINKS to back up debates / arguments. You (and Moranis) have yet to post any facts to back up your claims.

Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #69 on: August 24, 2019, 10:10:37 PM »

Offline Silky

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Whos gonna defend him ?

Shaq gets anything he wants in the paint while opponents only feel the pain and reach for " Icey Hot " after the game  :)

Shaqs hand fits nicely around Dramond Greens neck as he reachs up with,the other arm and slam it though the basket.

Hakeem and wallace routinely shut shaq down.

Its not an impossible thing at all.

You're being ridiculous.

Show me stats / footage where this happened.

Don't be foolish.

https://youtu.be/kstxcpbXHG0

https://youtu.be/vOjYSFznYoU

https://youtu.be/PdNLSnmZa0w

https://youtu.be/Evq1h3prDIA

https://youtu.be/9trtVzjsPOU



https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.latimes.com/sports/la-xpm-2013-jan-22-la-sp-sn-shaquille-oneal-hakeem-olajuwon-20130122-story.html%3f_amp=true

They are not hard to find

Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #70 on: August 24, 2019, 10:19:01 PM »

Offline Silky

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In this nba teams would make shaq irrelevant.

Yes he could score. Yes he could get rebounds.

But he wouldnt even be able to keep up with the speed of players. He would gas.

Imagine shaq trying to defend a pg on a switch? Teams didnt switch defensively in the past like they do today...and that is due to the importance and reliance on the 3pt shot.

Any team playing shaq would be substituting 3pter for 2pters

Look at all the big, truely big players in the last 10 years. Boban for example, is a strong as shaq, bigger than shaq, and is essentially useless except for bench minutes

Shaq made 3 All-Defensive 2nd teams in his career - one of them being his Finals MVP season.

He is nowhere near as bad as you state. Please stop trolling and post facts / statistics if you are able to.

Shaq got nba all defensive teams for rebounds.

Not once in his career did he lead the league in steals or rebounds or defensive rating or defensive win shares.

He would score in todays game but would, just like guys like baynes, jonas, boban, cousins, howard(who was far more athletic than shaq) amd other big bodies centers, get caught on switches and get attacked offensively.

The game is much different.

The game has left guys like him behind

I dont even know if shaq is a top 5 center all time.

You are getting your information from a friend or someone with a bias against Shaq.

Until you post credible statistics / facts to back up your claims you don't know what you are talking about.

When I first joined this Blog when it was CelticsBLOG one of the first things folks here told me was to post STATS / LINKS to back up debates / arguments. You (and Moranis) have yet to post any facts to back up your claims.

Why would i post stats that show he didnt leas the league in the stats i stated.

Its easy to find.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html

Bolded meams he lead the league in that catagory.

He has no bolds.

Its not making stuff up if you dont believe it.

Shaq was a force. Yup. But the league is different now. He knows it.

Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #71 on: August 24, 2019, 10:20:59 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Whos gonna defend him ?

Shaq gets anything he wants in the paint while opponents only feel the pain and reach for " Icey Hot " after the game  :)

Shaqs hand fits nicely around Dramond Greens neck as he reachs up with,the other arm and slam it though the basket.

Hakeem and wallace routinely shut shaq down.

Its not an impossible thing at all.

You're being ridiculous.

Show me stats / footage where this happened.

Don't be foolish.

https://youtu.be/kstxcpbXHG0

https://youtu.be/vOjYSFznYoU

https://youtu.be/PdNLSnmZa0w

https://youtu.be/Evq1h3prDIA

https://youtu.be/9trtVzjsPOU



https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.latimes.com/sports/la-xpm-2013-jan-22-la-sp-sn-shaquille-oneal-hakeem-olajuwon-20130122-story.html%3f_amp=true

They are not hard to find

You know, I don't often post youtube videos on here anymore. They don't tell the WHOLE story and are oftentimes biased.

That series with DET had a Lakers team that was thrown together...didn't that team have Malone and GP on it? And by THEN Kobe and Shaq were just about at wits end.

Here is a post from a commenter in that thread that got almost 1000 upchecks. To ME - this comment said it all:

"For the series, Shaq scored 26.6 ppg on 63% shooting. What Pistons did was deny the ball to Shaq, and they did it as a team. The guy who got really shutdown was Kobe, 17% shooting from the threes is really bad."

Try again. And you are ignoring my Head-Head link for Shaq vs Hakeem.

And furthermore - these posts of yours have nothing to do with whether Shaq would've dominated in today's NBA.

« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 10:29:34 PM by GreenFaith1819 »

Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #72 on: August 24, 2019, 10:46:34 PM »

Offline Silky

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Whos gonna defend him ?

Shaq gets anything he wants in the paint while opponents only feel the pain and reach for " Icey Hot " after the game  :)

Shaqs hand fits nicely around Dramond Greens neck as he reachs up with,the other arm and slam it though the basket.

Hakeem and wallace routinely shut shaq down.

Its not an impossible thing at all.

You're being ridiculous.

Show me stats / footage where this happened.

Don't be foolish.

https://youtu.be/kstxcpbXHG0

https://youtu.be/vOjYSFznYoU

https://youtu.be/PdNLSnmZa0w

https://youtu.be/Evq1h3prDIA

https://youtu.be/9trtVzjsPOU



https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.latimes.com/sports/la-xpm-2013-jan-22-la-sp-sn-shaquille-oneal-hakeem-olajuwon-20130122-story.html%3f_amp=true

They are not hard to find

You know, I don't often post youtube videos on here anymore. They don't tell the WHOLE story and are oftentimes biased.

That series with DET had a Lakers team that was thrown together...didn't that team have Malone and GP on it? And by THEN Kobe and Shaq were just about at wits end.

Here is a post from a commenter in that thread that got almost 1000 upchecks. To ME - this comment said it all:

"For the series, Shaq scored 26.6 ppg on 63% shooting. What Pistons did was deny the ball to Shaq, and they did it as a team. The guy who got really shutdown was Kobe, 17% shooting from the threes is really bad."

Try again. And you are ignoring my Head-Head link for Shaq vs Hakeem.

And furthermore - these posts of yours have nothing to do with whether Shaq would've dominated in today's NBA.

Yeah. They do.

And i supported a number of my counterpoints to some misplaced claims. Like you requested.

But to support your claim you look to a internet post.

Wallace neutralized shaq. As did the rest of the team.

Hakeem bested shaq and shaq couldnt contain him.

You asked for footage. So i showed it.

You claim shaq can defend the pick amd roll out to and including the 3pt line.

Prove it

Shaq would score 25ppg and would get 10 rebounds and would be a tremendous liability. All those elbows he threw would be immediately called in this day amd age.

Shaq dominated by bullyball. Bullyball is dead due to the rules. He would have to change his entire offense and defense.






And kobe shot poorly that series because he was constantly pressured and doubleteamed because shaq couldnt get himself open to draw defense away.

Shaq needed to be given the ball where he wanted it. Prevent that and he becomes limited.

Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #73 on: August 24, 2019, 11:24:02 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Whos gonna defend him ?

Shaq gets anything he wants in the paint while opponents only feel the pain and reach for " Icey Hot " after the game  :)

Shaqs hand fits nicely around Dramond Greens neck as he reachs up with,the other arm and slam it though the basket.

Hakeem and wallace routinely shut shaq down.

Its not an impossible thing at all.

You're being ridiculous.

Show me stats / footage where this happened.

Don't be foolish.

https://youtu.be/kstxcpbXHG0

https://youtu.be/vOjYSFznYoU

https://youtu.be/PdNLSnmZa0w

https://youtu.be/Evq1h3prDIA

https://youtu.be/9trtVzjsPOU



https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.latimes.com/sports/la-xpm-2013-jan-22-la-sp-sn-shaquille-oneal-hakeem-olajuwon-20130122-story.html%3f_amp=true

They are not hard to find

You know, I don't often post youtube videos on here anymore. They don't tell the WHOLE story and are oftentimes biased.

That series with DET had a Lakers team that was thrown together...didn't that team have Malone and GP on it? And by THEN Kobe and Shaq were just about at wits end.

Here is a post from a commenter in that thread that got almost 1000 upchecks. To ME - this comment said it all:

"For the series, Shaq scored 26.6 ppg on 63% shooting. What Pistons did was deny the ball to Shaq, and they did it as a team. The guy who got really shutdown was Kobe, 17% shooting from the threes is really bad."

Try again. And you are ignoring my Head-Head link for Shaq vs Hakeem.

And furthermore - these posts of yours have nothing to do with whether Shaq would've dominated in today's NBA.

Yeah. They do.

And i supported a number of my counterpoints to some misplaced claims. Like you requested.

But to support your claim you look to a internet post.

Wallace neutralized shaq. As did the rest of the team.

Hakeem bested shaq and shaq couldnt contain him.

You asked for footage. So i showed it.

You claim shaq can defend the pick amd roll out to and including the 3pt line.

Prove it

Shaq would score 25ppg and would get 10 rebounds and would be a tremendous liability. All those elbows he threw would be immediately called in this day amd age.

Shaq dominated by bullyball. Bullyball is dead due to the rules. He would have to change his entire offense and defense.

And kobe shot poorly that series because he was constantly pressured and doubleteamed because shaq couldnt get himself open to draw defense away.

Shaq needed to be given the ball where he wanted it. Prevent that and he becomes limited.

You ignore the fact that that Lakers team was dead on arrival with the rift between Shaq and Kobe. You also deny the fact that Shaq was on his way out of LA right after that series - to MIA - where he went on and won his 4th Ring (to Hakeem's 2). Hakeem should thank Michael Jordan.

Kobe Bryant - without Shaq - shot an abysmal 8-24 in the NBA finals against BOS - and got a lot of help from Dancin' Joey Crawford and the Heartbreakers.

Shaq Prime would struggle "A BIT" in the modern NBA DEFENSIVELY but guess what? GSW doesn't exist anymore. The NBA is now a lot more conventional than you think.

Shaq's struggles defensively would me marginal, at best. He would STILL be an elite scorer and distributor....and more than likely STILL leading a team to Banners.

Most posters in this thread don't support your claims, Silky. You ALSO fail to acknowledge my STATISTICAL post about Shaq's head-to-head matchup with Hakeem.

Just stop it, man.

Re: would a young Shaq be able to dominate in the modern nba?
« Reply #74 on: August 24, 2019, 11:35:08 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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So this back and forth is a spillover from the historical draft?  LOL.....I see we're keeping with old times around here.

For the record, you'd have to be pretty nuts to think Shaq wouldn't dominate in any era.  Like, you probably shouldn't be talking about basketball if you think Shaq would be just some average dude.  That's laughable.