We have a GREAT SHOT to sign Horford this summer per Wojnarowski

[kozlodoev]

We have a GREAT SHOT to sign Horford this summer per Wojnarowski

Um no, read the quote again: The Celtics THINK they have a great shot to sign Horford. Which is a pretty meaningless piece of information.

[CFAN38]

He would be a upgrade over Sully.   He is a better shooter, better shot blocker and has won head to head matchups with Sully routinely.  The real question is whether he can maintain that at his age and to be honest with Sully playing harder and well during a contract year....


http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/boston-celtics/players/jared-sullinger/comparison/16/2/26/4

This is a cool comparison.  Ranks Sullinger at 18th and Horford at 12th among centers.  Sullinger is a better rebounder, Horford a better and more efficient scorer.  Sounds about right to me.

So Horford is better right now but  trending down.  Sullinger may or may not be trending up.  Horford is likely to make, what, twice what Sullinger will get?

I am not sold that Horford is what we need or will move our needle much.

The question for me is if Horford can play alongside Sully.  I think Horford playing alongside a strong rebounder like Sully is optimal.  Horford in my mind would take Johnson's spot but with an increased role, and more effectiveness.  I would try to keep Sully if we are bringing Horford on board.

I was wondering the same thing with Sully. Its a common assumption that Horford would replace Sully but what if DA signs Horford and brings back Sully. Basically replacing Amir with Horford. Then the Cs would be committed to a Horford, Sully and KO three man rotation while either retaining Zeller as the 4th big or bringing in a cheaper buy to compete with Mickey.

In the small ball era of the NBA this may not be a terrible plan. Horford plays 32min at 4/5, Sully 25 and KO 25. That would leave on average 14 minutes of small ball with Crowder at the 4. This unit would much like ATL now be a tough cover for any traditional center with their spacing and pick and pop play. I ultimately would like to have a more defensive minded 5 next to Horford but retaining Sully may not be a bad alternative.

[Vermont Green]

Horford in my mind would take Johnson's spot

I agree with this.  If we could get  Sullinger for Amir Johnson's money or less and then sign Horford, we would be improved.  I don't see Horford as a max money guy though nor do I think we can get him for Amir money ($12M).  If we could, great.  He would be good value at that money

[GratefulCs]

I think DA will pass over Al until he is certain he can't get a super star .  Horford is a good dude , but he alone is not going to get the job done . Closer .....but no cigar .

Still need that person capable of 25 and 12 you can count on pretty much every night .

Only one person in the NBA meets (just barely) your criteria.

boogie?

[pearljammer10]

Still my green goggles summer idea:

Renounce Zeller. Don't pick up Johnson. Dont pick up Jerebko.

Work out a situation where we can sign and trade Sully along with Bradley, the Nets pick, Dallas pick and future celtics first for Jimmy Butler.

Sign Horford to a four year near max deal.

Sign Durant to a four year max.

Resign Turner to a friendly deal.

Late first rounder.

Vet min big man.

Vet min wing man.

IT/Smart/Rozier
Butler/Smart/Hunter
Crowder/Turner/Vet min.
Durant/KO/Late first rounder.
Horford/Mickey/Vet min.

[Ilikesports17]

Still my green goggles summer idea:

Renounce Zeller. Don't pick up Johnson. Dont pick up Jerebko.

Work out a situation where we can sign and trade Sully along with Bradley, the Nets pick, Dallas pick and future celtics first for Jimmy Butler.

Sign Horford to a four year near max deal.

Sign Durant to a four year max.

Resign Turner to a friendly deal.

Late first rounder.

Vet min big man.

Vet min wing man.

IT/Smart/Rozier
Butler/Smart/Hunter
Crowder/Turner/Vet min.
Durant/KO/Late first rounder.
Horford/Mickey/Vet min.

Does that work with the cap?

If we renounce everyone we will have 50 mil.

KD takes 25 mil.

Horford on a near max is conservatively 20 mil, tho I dont see any way he takes less than 23 (his max is 25)

that leaves us with 5 mil. With Bradley leaving that would give us 13 million.

Wed need to clear Id think 17-18 mil to get Jimmy in which means either Marcus or Jae would also have to go.

I could easily be messing up the math, but it doesnt seem possible to me.

[Humble G]

Still my green goggles summer idea:

Renounce Zeller. Don't pick up Johnson. Dont pick up Jerebko.

Work out a situation where we can sign and trade Sully along with Bradley, the Nets pick, Dallas pick and future celtics first for Jimmy Butler.

Sign Horford to a four year near max deal.

Sign Durant to a four year max.

Resign Turner to a friendly deal.

Late first rounder.

Vet min big man.

Vet min wing man.

IT/Smart/Rozier
Butler/Smart/Hunter
Crowder/Turner/Vet min.
Durant/KO/Late first rounder.
Horford/Mickey/Vet min.

Oh my Atlanta! Can that please happen!?!?! TP! We Wants it! WE NEEDS IT! 

[Ilikesports17]

We have a GREAT SHOT to sign Horford this summer per Wojnarowski

Um no, read the quote again: The Celtics THINK they have a great shot to sign Horford. Which is a pretty meaningless piece of information.

No WOJ said we have a good shot then later reported that we think we have a great shot too.

[HuskerCeltic]

We have a GREAT SHOT to sign Horford this summer per Wojnarowski

Um no, read the quote again: The Celtics THINK they have a great shot to sign Horford. Which is a pretty meaningless piece of information.

The report has less to do with the idea that we will get Horford in the off season and more to do with why we didn't throw more at Atlanta to acquire him at the deadline. Why use assets to get a player we can possibly sign later. Front office optimism for free agency right now to me is a better rumor to hear than the "let's give 4 picks for Winslow" potential disaster from last summer.

Nothing is a given but I believe that this summer we will take a big step forward. This rumor is an indicator that Danny thinks so too.

[MJohnnyboy]

Still my green goggles summer idea:

Renounce Zeller. Don't pick up Johnson. Dont pick up Jerebko.

Work out a situation where we can sign and trade Sully along with Bradley, the Nets pick, Dallas pick and future celtics first for Jimmy Butler.

Sign Horford to a four year near max deal.

Sign Durant to a four year max.

Resign Turner to a friendly deal.

Late first rounder.

Vet min big man.

Vet min wing man.

IT/Smart/Rozier
Butler/Smart/Hunter
Crowder/Turner/Vet min.
Durant/KO/Late first rounder.
Horford/Mickey/Vet min.

I frikkin love this idea. Tommy point. However, the issue is the hypothetical sign and trade with Sully for Butler eats the cap space we would want to use on Durant/Horford. The only way we could trade for Butler without getting into that cap space is by trading guys on the salary that they currently have now, so it would take more than Bradley. Also, Chicago is going to want more than just the picks and Bradley for Butler. I hate to say it but it's true, and that's still going off the belief that Chicago wants to rebuild, and I'm not sure if that's what they want to do even if that may very well be the best option for them at this point.

If the Celtics were to get Butler, it would have to be a deal like this:
Bradley/Smart/Olynyk/Rozier/Mickey/Nets pick/Mavs pick/2018 Nets pick or something along those lines. That may sound like an overpay to some, but, if it were to get Durant/Horford over here, I would make the deal. It would be easier to deal Crowder cap-wise instead of the young guys, but I think I'd prefer Crowder just because he and Butler have a rapport playing together.

Then of course you would have to renounce Sully, Zeller, Johnson, and Jerebko. It's hard to let go of the players that I really like, but factoring in the players the Celtics get from doing just that, I would let them go and I wouldn't think twice.

IT
Butler
Durant
Crowder
Horford

Is that starting 5 worth giving up all those guys for. I say, yeah it really is. Then there's filling out the rest of the roster. I believe the Celtics have the full MLE this summer, so I say use that to re-sign Turner. Then I'd say bring back Brandon Bass. Remember he wanted to come back but there was no place on the team for him. With the guys we get in this scenario, there would be a spot for him. Plus he has familiarity with Stevens. We'd also have 2nd round picks, Young, and Hunter. We could sign guy like, oh I dunno, Joakim Noah or Roy Hibbert to veteran minimum deals. You guys can take it from here, but seriously, a 7-man rotation of IT/Butler/Durant/Crowder/Horford/Turner/Bass is a championship caliber rotation. Celtics would obviously need more than that, but I don't think that would be a problem.

[CFAN38]

Still my green goggles summer idea:

Renounce Zeller. Don't pick up Johnson. Dont pick up Jerebko.

Work out a situation where we can sign and trade Sully along with Bradley, the Nets pick, Dallas pick and future celtics first for Jimmy Butler.

Sign Horford to a four year near max deal.

Sign Durant to a four year max.

Resign Turner to a friendly deal.

Late first rounder.

Vet min big man.

Vet min wing man.

IT/Smart/Rozier
Butler/Smart/Hunter
Crowder/Turner/Vet min.
Durant/KO/Late first rounder.
Horford/Mickey/Vet min.

If we are throwing crazy ideas around here is my ATL idea

If Horford is on board to sign as a FA (maybe sign and trade them Sully)

Trade Nets pick #3-#6, Mavs pick, Amir, and Young/Hunter for Milsap and Korver

Using Cs 1st and the two early 2nds try to trade up for Valentine, Plan B take Hayes and draft and stash players

resign Zeller (if can be had reasonable or fin journey man center)

retain Jerebko

2016-2017 Cs

C   Horford, Zeller
PF  Milsap, KO, Mickey
SF  Crowder, Korver, Jerebko
SG  AB, Valentine, Hunter
PG  IT, Smart Rozier

Assuming the Cavs keep their core of Irving, Shumpert, Lebron, Love, Thompson, Smith and Frye. I think the Cs top of the lineup matches up really well.

ATL is left with a garbage fire of a roster but after moving Teague for a young player and a pick they will have a nice start at a rebuild around Schroeder. 

[JBcat]

Still my green goggles summer idea:

Renounce Zeller. Don't pick up Johnson. Dont pick up Jerebko.

Work out a situation where we can sign and trade Sully along with Bradley, the Nets pick, Dallas pick and future celtics first for Jimmy Butler.

Sign Horford to a four year near max deal.

Sign Durant to a four year max.

Resign Turner to a friendly deal.

Late first rounder.

Vet min big man.

Vet min wing man.

IT/Smart/Rozier
Butler/Smart/Hunter
Crowder/Turner/Vet min.
Durant/KO/Late first rounder.
Horford/Mickey/Vet min.

I frikkin love this idea. Tommy point. However, the issue is the hypothetical sign and trade with Sully for Butler eats the cap space we would want to use on Durant/Horford. The only way we could trade for Butler without getting into that cap space is by trading guys on the salary that they currently have now, so it would take more than Bradley. Also, Chicago is going to want more than just the picks and Bradley for Butler. I hate to say it but it's true, and that's still going off the belief that Chicago wants to rebuild, and I'm not sure if that's what they want to do even if that may very well be the best option for them at this point.

If the Celtics were to get Butler, it would have to be a deal like this:
Bradley/Smart/Olynyk/Rozier/Mickey/Nets pick/Mavs pick/2018 Nets pick or something along those lines. That may sound like an overpay to some, but, if it were to get Durant/Horford over here, I would make the deal. It would be easier to deal Crowder cap-wise instead of the young guys, but I think I'd prefer Crowder just because he and Butler have a rapport playing together.

Then of course you would have to renounce Sully, Zeller, Johnson, and Jerebko. It's hard to let go of the players that I really like, but factoring in the players the Celtics get from doing just that, I would let them go and I wouldn't think twice.

IT
Butler
Durant
Crowder
Horford

Is that starting 5 worth giving up all those guys for. I say, yeah it really is. Then there's filling out the rest of the roster. I believe the Celtics have the full MLE this summer, so I say use that to re-sign Turner. Then I'd say bring back Brandon Bass. Remember he wanted to come back but there was no place on the team for him. With the guys we get in this scenario, there would be a spot for him. Plus he has familiarity with Stevens. We'd also have 2nd round picks, Young, and Hunter. We could sign guy like, oh I dunno, Joakim Noah or Roy Hibbert to veteran minimum deals. You guys can take it from here, but seriously, a 7-man rotation of IT/Butler/Durant/Crowder/Horford/Turner/Bass is a championship caliber rotation. Celtics would obviously need more than that, but I don't think that would be a problem.

I like this, but I do have a couple comments/concerns.

1) Will Durant work as a full time PF?   I'm not very savvy with advanced metrics but it looks like the top 4 5 man combinations for the Thunder involve Durant at the 3 alongside 2 of Ibaka, Adams, or Kanter.  Durant does rebound at a good rate though at 8.4 RPG, but do you want him wearing down against the PFs of the league full time?  Horford's rebounding has pretty much declined the past 4 years, and is at 7.2 RPG this year.   I would be worried about rebounding, and big man depth overall, and I'm not sure Noah or Hibbert would sign only minimum deals in a market flush with cash. I kind of want to keep Sully around to play with Horford for his rebounding, and in say 2 years Sully may actually be better than Horford. 

2)  For Butler I don't know this proposal seems like a bit of an overpay with Sully.   I thought one of the rumors was Bradley and the Nets pick (and probably Johnson to match salaries but he's not just only salary filler).   So 2 quality starters and a top 5 pick and those other picks for Butler seems fair.

The numbers would be close so you may be able to retain Turner in the end but probably not.

I mentioned this in another thread for roughly the minutes distribution. 

Horford 32 MPG, KO 25
Sully 20
Durant 35 Crowder 25
Butler 32 Turner 14 (most likely can't keep him) maybe sign a vet to a cheap deal or one of the kids can now play)
Thomas 32 Smart 25

I would have Crowder play the small ball 4 as he does now.   If Turner happens to stay in this fantasy team him minutes maybe could go up to around 20 or so and take a few minutes from the other bench players.  The thing I love here is Smart, Crowder, KO, Sully, and Horford would be great low usage players to play off of Thomas, Butler, and Durant.   

But I'm not getting my hopes up.  haha