Coco Crisp reportedly traded

[nickagneta]

backing up what I was saying about expectations...

In 04 and 05, his last two years with Cleveland, as a 24 and 25 year old, he hit 15 and 16 homers, he had 146 and 178 hits, 71 and 69 rbi's, 297 and 300 avg.  In his 3 years in Boston, he never once hit that many hr's in 1 year, he never once got that many hits in one year, he never once got that many rbi's in one year, he never batted that avg in one year.

additionally, his OBP, SLG, OPS in his 3 years here never approached his last two years in Cleveland.

The regression from what we thought we were getting was across the board (with the exception of defense).

Thats why Crisp was a failure here.  not because he was a bad player, but because he wasnt the player the statistics indicated he would be.  At the age he was when we acquired him, he should have continued to get better, not get worse.

Just as a thought and many have speculated but 2004 and 2005 were the last two years of the steroid era. 2006 comes along with much more stringent drug testing and suddenly lots of player are having major drop offs in production and having strange injuries.

I am not saying that is what happened with Coco but is it really beyond the realm of possibility?

[ma11l]

So what if you have only two great pitches?? Did schilling or randy johnson have anything but two pitches??

Masterson has a good fastball and deadly slider and he was good enough to be 6-2 last year as a starter.

If they trade him that will be a huge mistake

I agree that he definitely has the stuff to be a starter.  He had some good starts this year before going to the pen.  I want him in the pen next year simply because he is so young and it'll keep his innings down.  Also it gives the always valuable depth to the bullpen.  It looks like the Sox are after Burnett, and we all know the rumors about Lowe.  I think either guy would be awesome to add to the rotation, and it would allow Masterson to stay in the pen.

[crownsy]

So what if you have only two great pitches?? Did schilling or randy johnson have anything but two pitches??

Masterson has a good fastball and deadly slider and he was good enough to be 6-2 last year as a starter.

If they trade him that will be a huge mistake

yes actually, they did.

johnson had a great fastball, a filthy slider, a good changeup, and a good splitter.

schill had a great fastball, excellent splitter, a cruveball, and a good changeup.

just because thier not jamie moyer doesn't mean they had two pitches.

justin has, according to scouts, a plus fastball and a plus plus sinker. He also is trying to develop a major league curve, but so far has had limited success.


And no, i don't think all the scouts are wrong and he's going to be a starter. he's going to be a very good setup man/ closer. Its what he's best suited for with his stamina and pitch avaliblity.

as to trading him, i'd be opposed, but if its for something very useful (like a top tier catching prospect) then sure, i'd trade him.

Masterson is going to be groomed to take okie's job if he stays, which he will excel at.

[crownsy]

backing up what I was saying about expectations...

In 04 and 05, his last two years with Cleveland, as a 24 and 25 year old, he hit 15 and 16 homers, he had 146 and 178 hits, 71 and 69 rbi's, 297 and 300 avg.  In his 3 years in Boston, he never once hit that many hr's in 1 year, he never once got that many hits in one year, he never once got that many rbi's in one year, he never batted that avg in one year.

additionally, his OBP, SLG, OPS in his 3 years here never approached his last two years in Cleveland.

The regression from what we thought we were getting was across the board (with the exception of defense).

Thats why Crisp was a failure here.  not because he was a bad player, but because he wasnt the player the statistics indicated he would be.  At the age he was when we acquired him, he should have continued to get better, not get worse.

Just as a thought and many have speculated but 2004 and 2005 were the last two years of the steroid era. 2006 comes along with much more stringent drug testing and suddenly lots of player are having major drop offs in production and having strange injuries.

I am not saying that is what happened with Coco but is it really beyond the realm of possibility?

no one is, but i think was more realated to his JD-drew esq string of injurys. tough to hit well with a bad wrist.

[Chris]

So what if you have only two great pitches?? Did schilling or randy johnson have anything but two pitches??

Masterson has a good fastball and deadly slider and he was good enough to be 6-2 last year as a starter.

If they trade him that will be a huge mistake

yes actually, they did.

johnson had a great fastball, a filthy slider, a good changeup, and a good splitter.

schill had a great fastball, excellent splitter, a cruveball, and a good changeup.

just because thier not jamie moyer doesn't mean they had two pitches.

justin has, according to scouts, a plus fastball and a plus plus sinker. He also is trying to develop a major league curve, but so far has had limited success.


And no, i don't think all the scouts are wrong and he's going to be a starter. he's going to be a very good setup man/ closer. Its what he's best suited for with his stamina and pitch avaliblity.

as to trading him, i'd be opposed, but if its for something very useful (like a top tier catching prospect) then sure, i'd trade him.

Masterson is going to be groomed to take okie's job if he stays, which he will excel at.

I think the other issue is that neither of Masterson's two pitches are incredibly effective against lefties.  He can face right handers all day long, and they will still be having trouble with his slider, and pounding his sinking fastball into the ground, but lefties will (and have) had success against those pitches, especially the second and third time through the lineup.

More to the point, Masterson doesn't just need a third pitch, he needs the third pitch to be effective against lefties.  He has been working on a changeup, which would be the perfect addition, however, he doesn't use it, which means he is not comfortable with it yet. 

If he is able to develop that changeup, he could be a very good starter, similar to Derek Lowe.  But until then, he is much more effective in the bullpen.  And you can't discount the fact that this team has two other prospects waiting in the wings, with more developed stuff as starters, which helps make the decision a whole lot easier about not rushing him into the rotation.

[Toine43]

justin has, according to scouts, a plus fastball and a plus plus sinker. He also is trying to develop a major league curve, but so far has had limited success.

Where did you get this scouting report? Where's the mention of Masterson's slider, his best pitch? Also, there's no way he'll ever throw a curve ball - not with his sidearm delivery. I believe that the pitch Masterson is trying to develop is a changeup.

Yep, I just looked at soxprospects.com, and his pitches are a plus sinker (no straight fastball), a slider, and a changeup (seldom used). http://soxprospects.com/players/masterson-justin.htm

Everything about this kid screams reliever.

[yall hate]

Everything about this kid screams reliever.

And thats what all the scouts believed and said as well.

May just be posturing by the league that he might be slotted in for when they have discussions with Lowe or Burnett...

[xmuscularghandix]

he alternates speeds with his sinker very well. which is why thats clearly his most effective pitch.

if they trade justin their stupid. he's been one of their best pitching prospects since they got him. he could easily be the 4th starter on this team, or he could easily be the set up man for this team...whatever they need. AJ Burnett is a punk that only plays on his contract years, and is constantly injured.

[yall hate]

he alternates speeds with his sinker very well. which is why thats clearly his most effective pitch.

if they trade justin their stupid. he's been one of their best pitching prospects since they got him. he could easily be the 4th starter on this team, or he could easily be the set up man for this team...whatever they need. AJ Burnett is a punk that only plays on his contract years, and is constantly injured.

perception is different then fact.

Burnett is not as injury prone as you and others believe (see above)

He has been a good pitcher just about every year he has been healthy, not just in contract years.

Their is no rush to get rid of Masterson because he is a quality pitcher, but he can certainly be moved in the right deal

[SShorefan 3.0]

THANK YOU COCO!!

We wish you nothing but the best.