How much longer do we need to give hayward?

[csfansince60s]

It's interesting the way that some people seem to be personally offended that Hayward isn't playing better.

The issue for me is that the team can't reach the level we all expected them to reach if Gordon is going to be just an okay role player instead of an all star type wing.

I agree with you on both counts.

I believe that your second sentence actually answers your implicit rhetorical question in the first sentence. People, right or wrong,  see Hayward's lack of effectiveness as a major cause in our team's lack of achievement. And they're p---ed because of it.

[SHAQATTACK]

1-2 days max

[Chris22]

It took Paul George a year and a half to recover from his injury.

But it looks to me like the second unit needs a point guard.

[Wretch]

I don't get the Hayward hate.  He's working back from a major injury and still has a net rating of +6.6. Morris, who almost everyone thinks is having a great year has a net rating of +8.2.

Hayward is almost as good as Morris while having one of his worst statistical years while Morris is having one of his best.

I said this in another thread, there are parallels between Horford's and Hayward's contributions. Neither has to be statistically dominant to have a positive impact on the game. Both make the right cuts, and passes and they know where to be on the floor to not disrupt the flow of the game for the primary scorers. They also play good to great individual and team defense.

[csfansince60s]

Honestly I would suggest that you give up on him looking like a star again until next season. I think scrappy role player Hayward is what we've got for the near future. Give him a summer to work out and I think he'll get there again.

I think the this is exactly correct AND that we have NO CHOICE in this matter.

We can't trade him for a bunch of reasons: his value (performance/contract) is very low right now, and it would send the wrong message to so many (CBS, our players and the rest of the players in the league), so we are STUCK ....waiting and hoping.

As so many have said, most of this problem is in Hayward's head. An article from two weeks ago in the Boston Herald both proffers this and then offers Haywards own words to back up that opinion:

Due to the nature of what he’s coming back from – and the accident that caused it – most assume that Hayward’s greatest mental block still involves leaving his feet.

And they would be right, especially when it involves challenging a big man, either off a drive or going up for a lob.

“As I get further into the season my ankle will get stronger and stronger, and then that will translate into confidence going to the rim, and challenging bigs and things like that,” said the Celtics forward. “I still think I’m not there yet on that front. I’ve made a lot of strides as far as my movement is concerned. But I’m still not fully confident as far as challenging bigs at the rim, going for alley-oops and stuff, and getting as high as I’m capable of.”

https://www.bostonherald.com/2018/12/16/in-search-of-the-old-gordon-hayward/

Until Gordo either gets over his fear OR has the stones to face and embrace his fear and says "screw it" and truly pushes his physicallimits, he will continue to be the payer that he IS and not the player that we NEED and that he has the tools to be.

We're just stuck waiting.

[PhoSita]

I don't get the Hayward hate.  He's working back from a major injury and still has a net rating of +6.6. Morris, who almost everyone thinks is having a great year has a net rating of +8.2.

Hayward is almost as good as Morris while having one of his worst statistical years while Morris is having one of his best.

I said this in another thread, there are parallels between Horford's and Hayward's contributions. Neither has to be statistically dominant to have a positive impact on the game. Both make the right cuts, and passes and they know where to be on the floor to not disrupt the flow of the game for the primary scorers. They also play good to great individual and team defense.

I think it's not so much about the positive contributions he's making now.

It's the difference between his contribution and what the Celts expected him to be when they signed him, and what they need him to be in order for the Celts to be an elite team.

As you say, Hayward's contributions are not far off those of Morris.  But Morris is a guy the Celts got in a trade that basically amounted to a salary dump of Avery Bradley; he's making $5 million a year. 

For a lot of people I think it's the contract.  Just like with Horford, some people feel personally offended by a player who scores fewer points per game than the number of millions in his annual contract value.

[footey]

I don't get the Hayward hate.  He's working back from a major injury and still has a net rating of +6.6. Morris, who almost everyone thinks is having a great year has a net rating of +8.2.

Hayward is almost as good as Morris while having one of his worst statistical years while Morris is having one of his best.

I said this in another thread, there are parallels between Horford's and Hayward's contributions. Neither has to be statistically dominant to have a positive impact on the game. Both make the right cuts, and passes and they know where to be on the floor to not disrupt the flow of the game for the primary scorers. They also play good to great individual and team defense.

The struggles inside I understand. Was hoping he found his stroke by now. Could really use it with Brown and Horford continuing to struggle from 3.

[Celtics4ever]

As you say, Hayward's contributions are not far off those of Morris.  But Morris is a guy the Celts got in a trade that basically amounted to a salary dump of Avery Bradley; he's making $5 million a year. 

And Morris is our starter now, BTW which means CBS did the right thing.

[GreenShooter]

He used to be an aggressive player. Now he is not. He's going to the line the least times in his whole career, not including his rookie season. It looks like he's "dragging" out there or maybe his foot is just dragging behind (it's not keeping up with the rest of his body) or he is being very tentative. It'll pass. He needs to be knocked on his a$$ and get pulled up by his teammates. They are all trying to get him going. You can see that almost every game. Looks like Kyrie is getting a little frustrated with it. Not sure how to take that.
At least he's being a good facilitator and rebounder. The rest of his game will come with time. We really need it to be this year though.

[PhoSita]

It's interesting the way that some people seem to be personally offended that Hayward isn't playing better.

The issue for me is that the team can't reach the level we all expected them to reach if Gordon is going to be just an okay role player instead of an all star type wing.

I agree with you on both counts.

I believe that your second sentence actually answers your implicit rhetorical question in the first sentence. People, right or wrong,  see Hayward's lack of effectiveness as a major cause in our team's lack of achievement. And they're p---ed because of it.

Sure, I just find it a little weird that people channel that disappointment as anger against Hayward as though he's personally broken a promise to them.

Hayward's obviously trying his best to get back to where he was prior to one of the most horrific injuries an NBA player has sustained in recent memory.

I'm bummed that the team isn't the nightly source of enjoyable entertainment I thought they'd be, but I don't feel as though a particular player on the team owes me anything.

It's not as though the team is struggling because Hayward, specifically, is lazy and decided to mail the season in, or something like that. 

I had a lot more personal enmity towards Rasheed Wallace, back in the day.  That seemed like a case where the team just didn't care to put forth the effort to win more than half their games over the last 2/3 of the regular season.

[LilRip]

I think the GH experiment needs to be shelved this year. He isn’t 100% and it shows. Glaringly so.

That said? No, don’t trade him. But the team needs to adjust, salaries be [dang]ed. Hayward needs to be primarily a catch and shoot player and a solid team defender. He doesn’t have the explosion to consistently finish in the lane and he doesn’t seem to have the confidence yet either to try and get fouled. I cringe every time the shot clock gets low and he iso’s in the center of the floor. Maybe when you were in Utah, Gordy. Not in 2018.

Once it becomes clear to everyone that GH will essentially fill Semi’s role last season, I think things will fall into place much better. Brown needs more reps, IMO, for him to play better. I also think the team needs to play Rozier/Brown/Tatum together more, since last year showed that those 3 guys can have good chemistry.

[PhoSita]

The problem is that I think the only way he'll get back to anything like the player he was in Utah is if he gets reps during real game action against NBA defenders.  The team needs him to reach that level again in order to become a genuine contender, which they are not right now.

So though it's painful, it seems like a bit of a necessary evil.

I'm fine with it as long as he's coming off the bench and somebody else is in there during crunch time.

[Sophomore]

One thing that I am starting to come to terms with is that there are only so many points to go around.  I think Tatum and Irving are both going to be 20 PPG scorers (Irving is obviously already there).  Based on this, I don't think Hayward will get to this level.  I'm hoping he can give us 15 and a bunch of assists and rebounds (as well as D).  His shooting percentages need to improve.

Yeah. It’s not the counting stays for me - ppg. It’s his efficiency and aggressiveness when he does have the ball - both way down.

[SparzWizard]

The problem is that I think the only way he'll get back to anything like the player he was in Utah is if he gets reps during real game action against NBA defenders.  The team needs him to reach that level again in order to become a genuine contender, which they are not right now.

So though it's painful, it seems like a bit of a necessary evil.

I'm fine with it as long as he's coming off the bench and somebody else is in there during crunch time.

I want him to actually play like he's about to tear a ligament again (but doesn't) to see if he still got it. If he can't do it, he most likely lost his explosiveness forever. That's when CBS should switch him to play like an Eddie House-type player- catch and shoot 3's, maybe incorporate rebounding too.

[gpap]

Probably until around March.

It's going to take a while, but we'll see the Hayward from Utah in due time

Chris Weber made a good observation during the game late in the 4th quarter yesterday about a lay-up Hayward made where he showed a lot of mobility, a play he wouldn't have made if he was still affected by the ankle injury.