Author Topic: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy  (Read 12063 times)

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NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« on: January 22, 2019, 08:04:34 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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1. Rams vs Saints on the missed penalty on the wide receiver prior to throw with than 2 min left

2. OT coin toss perceived unfairness

Should something be done ...

Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2019, 08:20:02 PM »

Offline Rakulp

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1. Rams vs Saints on the missed penalty on the wide receiver prior to throw with than 2 min left

2. OT coin toss perceived unfairness

Should something be done ...

1.  Sticky wicket...whatever is done will create controversy.  If you say that the referees in New York should be able to call a penalty that is missed, how do you apply it?  Whole game?  Last 2 minutes?  It was a terrible call, and referees are graded on their performance...so whatever referee missed that will probably lose other playoff games in the future as a penalty.

Doesn't help the Saints...but I'm really scratching my head for a reasonable solution.

2.  What "unfairness" do you mean? 

Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2019, 08:31:14 PM »

Offline footey

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1. Rams vs Saints on the missed penalty on the wide receiver prior to throw with than 2 min left

2. OT coin toss perceived unfairness

Should something be done ...

1. Where do you draw the line on review for penalties? Slippery slope.
2. Team losing coin toss only has to prevent TD. If you can’t do that, you deserve to lose.

Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2019, 08:31:16 PM »

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Yes, change the OT rule so that both teams are guaranteed to touch the ball.

Practically, almost all pass interference calls are judgment calls. Officials almost never miss the blatant stuff. If replay was added, I can see lots of challenges of ticky tack plays, mutual hand-fighting, etc.  I guess if it’s only a booth-initiated challenge in the last two minutes, will only clearly wrong plays to be overturned. But, I think it would just lead to additional controversy.


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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2019, 08:34:21 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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1) Just make all plays reviewable. Still require coaches challenge to be used outside of two minutes. Just expand what can be challenged. Keep the same numbers or add 1.  Keep the other replay rules intact but also let New York review all plays inside the two min window.

Also, Saints shouldn’t be let off the hook completely because of that ridiculous call.  They botched their play calling after the Ginn catch and didn’t help themselves.

2). I’m guessing there isn’t much if any national outrage if the roles were reversed in that title game. Personally, I’m fine with the status quo but if they went to college rules (maybe minus the field position), I’d be fine with that too.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 08:45:18 PM by Donoghus »


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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2019, 08:35:46 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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1. Rams vs Saints on the missed penalty on the wide receiver prior to throw with than 2 min left

2. OT coin toss perceived unfairness

Should something be done ...

1.  Sticky wicket...whatever is done will create controversy.  If you say that the referees in New York should be able to call a penalty that is missed, how do you apply it?  Whole game?  Last 2 minutes?  It was a terrible call, and referees are graded on their performance...so whatever referee missed that will probably lose other playoff games in the future as a penalty.

Doesn't help the Saints...but I'm really scratching my head for a reasonable solution.

2.  What "unfairness" do you mean?
Not getting #2 either. Do you mean it's unfair that if someone wins the coin toss and goes down the field, scores a TD and wins the game as being unfair because the team that lost the coin toss never got the chance to play offense?

If that's what you mean all I have to say is if you lose the coin toss, stop the other team from scoring a TD then drive the length of the field and score your own TD and win the game. Nothing unfair about losing a coin flip. Just play great defense then great offense.

Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2019, 08:42:00 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Things are missed all the time. Saints still had a chance to win after the blown no call but they blew it in OT, so I don't see all the ruckus over it. It's like the failed no holding call during the Tyree catch. They blew that call but Tyree still made a catch and the following plays were what resulted in the win ultimately. Teams deal with bad calls all game.

As far as OT rules stopping a team from scoring is part of the game. By trying to ensure each team gets a shot to score we are bailing out the defenses. I like it as is.

Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2019, 09:08:43 PM »

Offline jambr380

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#1: Agree with making everything reviewable - even penalties (or non-penalties). I understand that with under 2 minutes that something like that probably can't be automatically reviewed (a non-call) so a coach better be careful with their time-outs.

#2: They already changed the rules by requiring that the team that wins the coin toss score a TD rather than a FG to end the game. If one team can't stop another from marching down the field for a TD on their initial possession, then they probably deserve to lose. I do understand the argument, though.

Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2019, 09:14:17 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Honestly, I thought after SB51, they'd think hard about tweaking the OT rules so that regardless, both teams get at least one possession in OT UNLESS there is a defensive score (pick 6 or fumble returned for TD) in the very first possession.

Basically, even if both teams score TDs the first time, the next team who scores in any way wins (so there still is an advantage to winning the coin toss).

BUT... while they did change the rules a bit, they never changed that particular rule about possession(s) and scoring a TD first wins it. Curious to see how it's affected this time around.
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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2019, 09:19:51 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Yes, change the OT rule so that both teams are guaranteed to touch the ball.

Practically, almost all pass interference calls are judgment calls. Officials almost never miss the blatant stuff. If replay was added, I can see lots of challenges of ticky tack plays, mutual hand-fighting, etc.  I guess if it’s only a booth-initiated challenge in the last two minutes, will only clearly wrong plays to be overturned. But, I think it would just lead to additional controversy.


I like the idea of some type of mechanism that would let the booth automatically initiate a review of a major call or non-call. 

I agree that giving coaches challenges on penalties would bog the game down too much.  All of the replay already makes the games super super long.
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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2019, 09:38:29 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Yes, change the OT rule so that both teams are guaranteed to touch the ball.

Practically, almost all pass interference calls are judgment calls. Officials almost never miss the blatant stuff. If replay was added, I can see lots of challenges of ticky tack plays, mutual hand-fighting, etc.  I guess if it’s only a booth-initiated challenge in the last two minutes, will only clearly wrong plays to be overturned. But, I think it would just lead to additional controversy.


I like the idea of some type of mechanism that would let the booth automatically initiate a review of a major call or non-call. 

I agree that giving coaches challenges on penalties would bog the game down too much.  All of the replay already makes the games super super long.

This

Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2019, 09:43:43 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Yes, change the OT rule so that both teams are guaranteed to touch the ball.

Practically, almost all pass interference calls are judgment calls. Officials almost never miss the blatant stuff. If replay was added, I can see lots of challenges of ticky tack plays, mutual hand-fighting, etc.  I guess if it’s only a booth-initiated challenge in the last two minutes, will only clearly wrong plays to be overturned. But, I think it would just lead to additional controversy.


I like the idea of some type of mechanism that would let the booth automatically initiate a review of a major call or non-call. 

I agree that giving coaches challenges on penalties would bog the game down too much.  All of the replay already makes the games super super long.

This

You keep the number of challenges the same or maybe add one more.   It's really not gonna add much time.

You think a coach is gonna waste a challenge on a subjective first down holding call in the 2nd quarter?

You're not opening the door up to unlimited challenges here.  Coaches are still going to have to be very careful how they manage their challenges.


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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2019, 09:48:40 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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What about for playoff OT, they have a long distance FG kickoff to see who gets the ball (or first call)

At least it will be determined via skill

No sudden death but OT is only 7 min 30 sec long


Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2019, 09:53:56 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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1. Replay on Penalties is a very tricky question. For example, can a defense throw the challenge flag when they give up a big play and claim that there was offensive line holding? Are missed pick plays reviewable? Can the defense throw the red flag and ask the refs to look for offensive PI? What level of holding and offensive PI is going to be called in super slow motion from multiple angles? People might say limit it to the obvious ones, but there's always a gradient where obvious meets less obvious. For Defensive PI, the recent missed call was obvious, but there are lots that are not. And everything looks very different in slow motion.

I suppose you could put some parameters on it, like if there is visible contact between defense and receiver, when the ref is ruling catch or incomplete, they also have to acknowledge to each other why the visible contact was not Offensive or Defensive PI. Not announcing every time, but like how on the sidelines they look to each other for feet and possession. Like "Catch, defender initiated contact, no O-PI" or "Catch with mutual contact, no PI" or "Incomplete, contact simultaneous to ball" or "Incomplete, defender looked to the ball and tried to play the ball." Then, there could be a specific thing that was challenged, like if the ref said "Incomplete, lots of contact, but defender looked at the ball and tried to play it" you could throw the flag and say "no he didn't," and if the replay showed he never turned his head to look, it would be DPI. Or in the Saints' case, it would have been "Incomplete, bang-bang contact" and the Saints could have challenged and said "contact was way early" and would have been proven right. Also not a bad idea to go with Bill Simmons' suggestion that PI penalties are watched in real-time, no slow motion.

2. I'm fine with OT the way it is. Someone has to win sometime. If you can't win in regulation, you're already on thin ice, and if you can't get a stop, that's tough. I hate the college system, honestly. The current NFL system is better than pure sudden death. It would be interesting to just say OT is a full 15 minutes, and just leave it at that, then say the 6th quarter gets the current OT rules.

Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2019, 10:18:45 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

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There is no perfect solution to overtime.  Here are the total results since the NFL adopted the current OT rules.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SandoESPN/status/1087245109874298881



That's about as fair as you are going to get. 

Make all plays reviewable.  Belichick has been pushing for that for years.