One stat to Smart will get more than Roberson

[slamtheking]

I think if Smart doesn't lock it in from the three point range then he will be traded by the break.  Jabari Bird will take his place.

This post is not a troll.  Im sick of smart not making his shots.

That's like saying, "if Jaylen's average PPG is less than 15 by the break, trade him"... 

It's not at all like that.

Marcus Smart is in a contract year and the Celtics aren't going to resign him period.  It makes the most sense to trade him and try to get value for a former lottery pick.

The simple fact is that the Celtics aren't going to pay luxury tax to resign a bench player.  They still have to think about upcoming renegotiations for Jaylen Brown and Terry Rozier plus signing future draft picks.

says who?

C's will pay the tax to resign Smart if needed.  he's a core player for this team. 

I don't want him jacking a lot of outside shots but when he focuses on facilitating the offense (competent passer), playing in the post (able to overpower other guards to pass/shoot), driving to the basket (able to overpower other guards to pass/shoot) he's an asset on offense.  His defense and other intangibles are an incredible asset to have on the team.

[BitterJim]

I think if Smart doesn't lock it in from the three point range then he will be traded by the break.  Jabari Bird will take his place.

This post is not a troll.  Im sick of smart not making his shots.

That's like saying, "if Jaylen's average PPG is less than 15 by the break, trade him"... 

It's not at all like that.

Marcus Smart is in a contract year and the Celtics aren't going to resign him period.  It makes the most sense to trade him and try to get value for a former lottery pick.

The simple fact is that the Celtics aren't going to pay luxury tax to resign a bench player.  They still have to think about upcoming renegotiations for Jaylen Brown and Terry Rozier plus signing future draft picks.

Got a source on that, or is it just pure speculation? (and no, "we didn't extend him!" is not proof, we haven't extended any rookies since Rondo.  It didn't mean we weren't keeping AB, and it doesn't mean we aren't keeping Smart)

The fact is that there's no way we can replace Smart if we let him go (unless we gave up big assets).  Ownership has said that they're willing to pay luxury tax for a contender.  If Brown and Tatum keep up their development and Hayward comes back 100%, that might be as soon as next year.

[Moranis]

Roberson also is coming off a 2nd Team All Defense season and has a career 2PT% over 60%.  Both things in his favor when comparing him to Smart.

[Eddie20]

Roberson also is coming off a 2nd Team All Defense season and has a career 2PT% over 60%.  Both things in his favor when comparing him to Smart.

Common, man, offensively it's not even close between the two. Smart can post up, run the PNR, pass, and has a knack for hitting big shots.

[Moranis]

Roberson also is coming off a 2nd Team All Defense season and has a career 2PT% over 60%.  Both things in his favor when comparing him to Smart.

Common, man, offensively it's not even close between the two. Smart can post up, run the PNR, pass, and has a knack for hitting big shots.

He also can't hit the broad side of the barn.  Sometimes the best shot is not taking one.  Something Smart absolutely needs to figure out.  Smart's career 2PT% is 41.8%.  That is all time bad.  His career 3PT% is 29.1% which has steadily been going down since his rookie year when he shot 33.5%. 

Smart can do a lot of things offensively, unfortunately he hasn't learned he should stop shooting the ball (even from 0-3' he has been barely above 50%).  Roberson is at least smart enough to know he is a bad shooter and limits his attempts from places he is unlikely to make from, which is why he is a career 60.4% shooter from 2 in a very large part because he shoots 53.1% of his shots from 0-3' and makes them at 65.9%. 

Smart definitely has more offensive potential, but until he either (A) stops shooting or (B) starts hitting more of them, he is a significantly flawed player who isn't worth that much.

[IDreamCeltics]

I think if Smart doesn't lock it in from the three point range then he will be traded by the break.  Jabari Bird will take his place.

This post is not a troll.  Im sick of smart not making his shots.

That's like saying, "if Jaylen's average PPG is less than 15 by the break, trade him"... 

It's not at all like that.

Marcus Smart is in a contract year and the Celtics aren't going to resign him period.  It makes the most sense to trade him and try to get value for a former lottery pick.

The simple fact is that the Celtics aren't going to pay luxury tax to resign a bench player.  They still have to think about upcoming renegotiations for Jaylen Brown and Terry Rozier plus signing future draft picks.

Got a source on that, or is it just pure speculation? (and no, "we didn't extend him!" is not proof, we haven't extended any rookies since Rondo.  It didn't mean we weren't keeping AB, and it doesn't mean we aren't keeping Smart)

The fact is that there's no way we can replace Smart if we let him go (unless we gave up big assets).  Ownership has said that they're willing to pay luxury tax for a contender.  If Brown and Tatum keep up their development and Hayward comes back 100%, that might be as soon as next year.

I think the Celtics have already replaced Smart.  Here are Rozier's numbers over 4 games of this season.

G    MP     FG%   3%    FT%   Ast  Blk  Stl     To     Pts 
4  27.7    .444   .444   .667     4     0   2.0    0.8   11.5

I'll just leave that right there...

[Sketch5]

I think if Smart doesn't lock it in from the three point range then he will be traded by the break.  Jabari Bird will take his place.

This post is not a troll.  Im sick of smart not making his shots.

That's like saying, "if Jaylen's average PPG is less than 15 by the break, trade him"... 

It's not at all like that.

Marcus Smart is in a contract year and the Celtics aren't going to resign him period.  It makes the most sense to trade him and try to get value for a former lottery pick.

The simple fact is that the Celtics aren't going to pay luxury tax to resign a bench player.  They still have to think about upcoming renegotiations for Jaylen Brown and Terry Rozier plus signing future draft picks.

First off, Smart only really have had 2.5 games of action so we're jumping a bit. We also saw some improvement in preseason with the out side shot. Something else he improved on was his ability to get to the rim and got his body right.

Smart doesn't have to be light out, just respectable. He only has to be to the point were teams can't sag off of him. Its amazing how much people disrespect  what he can to, and thats play D and on players 1 through 4.

I have no idea how Bird replaces Smart at this point. Maybe if you said Rozier, that would make sense. Bird hasn't done much of anything to say that he can replace Smart.

It also will make more sense to do a S&T at the end of the season, you'll get more bang for you buck, plus it has him locked down for more years and not a half a year were he can bolt.

[jambr380]

I think if Smart doesn't lock it in from the three point range then he will be traded by the break.  Jabari Bird will take his place.

This post is not a troll.  Im sick of smart not making his shots.

That's like saying, "if Jaylen's average PPG is less than 15 by the break, trade him"... 

It's not at all like that.

Marcus Smart is in a contract year and the Celtics aren't going to resign him period.  It makes the most sense to trade him and try to get value for a former lottery pick.

The simple fact is that the Celtics aren't going to pay luxury tax to resign a bench player.  They still have to think about upcoming renegotiations for Jaylen Brown and Terry Rozier plus signing future draft picks.

Got a source on that, or is it just pure speculation? (and no, "we didn't extend him!" is not proof, we haven't extended any rookies since Rondo.  It didn't mean we weren't keeping AB, and it doesn't mean we aren't keeping Smart)

The fact is that there's no way we can replace Smart if we let him go (unless we gave up big assets).  Ownership has said that they're willing to pay luxury tax for a contender.  If Brown and Tatum keep up their development and Hayward comes back 100%, that might be as soon as next year.

I think the Celtics have already replaced Smart.  Here are Rozier's numbers over 4 games of this season.

G    MP     FG%   3%    FT%   Ast  Blk  Stl     To     Pts 
4  27.7    .444   .444   .667     4     0   2.0    0.8   11.5

I'll just leave that right there...

I agree, Rozier has been awesome. You even forgot Rozier's most impressive stat: 5.8 RPG. I swear, he is either tearing down every rebound or instead lets a teammate take it as he flies through the air right next to it. The way that guy moves is incredible.

I am not saying he is Smart's replacement. The 'dichotomy of smart' probably lies somewhere in the middle of both sides of the argument. I would be happy to sign him to a reasonable long-term deal.

[droopdog7]

Roberson also is coming off a 2nd Team All Defense season and has a career 2PT% over 60%.  Both things in his favor when comparing him to Smart.

Common, man, offensively it's not even close between the two. Smart can post up, run the PNR, pass, and has a knack for hitting big shots.

He also can't hit the broad side of the barn.  Sometimes the best shot is not taking one.  Something Smart absolutely needs to figure out.  Smart's career 2PT% is 41.8%.  That is all time bad.  His career 3PT% is 29.1% which has steadily been going down since his rookie year when he shot 33.5%. 

Smart can do a lot of things offensively, unfortunately he hasn't learned he should stop shooting the ball (even from 0-3' he has been barely above 50%).  Roberson is at least smart enough to know he is a bad shooter and limits his attempts from places he is unlikely to make from, which is why he is a career 60.4% shooter from 2 in a very large part because he shoots 53.1% of his shots from 0-3' and makes them at 65.9%. 

Smart definitely has more offensive potential, but until he either (A) stops shooting or (B) starts hitting more of them, he is a significantly flawed player who isn't worth that much.

Pretty much exactly what I said earlier in this thread.  Smart is an all time bad offensive player.  The numbers a clear as day.  So calling him a better offensive player than pretty much anybody is not accurate.

[BitterJim]

I think if Smart doesn't lock it in from the three point range then he will be traded by the break.  Jabari Bird will take his place.

This post is not a troll.  Im sick of smart not making his shots.

That's like saying, "if Jaylen's average PPG is less than 15 by the break, trade him"... 

It's not at all like that.

Marcus Smart is in a contract year and the Celtics aren't going to resign him period.  It makes the most sense to trade him and try to get value for a former lottery pick.

The simple fact is that the Celtics aren't going to pay luxury tax to resign a bench player.  They still have to think about upcoming renegotiations for Jaylen Brown and Terry Rozier plus signing future draft picks.

Got a source on that, or is it just pure speculation? (and no, "we didn't extend him!" is not proof, we haven't extended any rookies since Rondo.  It didn't mean we weren't keeping AB, and it doesn't mean we aren't keeping Smart)

The fact is that there's no way we can replace Smart if we let him go (unless we gave up big assets).  Ownership has said that they're willing to pay luxury tax for a contender.  If Brown and Tatum keep up their development and Hayward comes back 100%, that might be as soon as next year.

I think the Celtics have already replaced Smart.  Here are Rozier's numbers over 4 games of this season.

G    MP     FG%   3%    FT%   Ast  Blk  Stl     To     Pts 
4  27.7    .444   .444   .667     4     0   2.0    0.8   11.5

I'll just leave that right there...

Offensively, maybe, but he has a shooting history that's nearly as shaky as Smart's and isn't even close to the playmaker that Smart is.  And defensively, the two aren't remotely comparable.  Smart is elite while Rozier might be average.

More to the point, though, if you replace Smart with Rozier then who replaces Rozier? I'd rather have both of them (with Rozier still on his rookie contract next year!) and not have to worry about our backcourt at all.  I still see Rozier's ceiling as Leandro Barbosa (without the 6MOY), and I'd like to keep him along with a guy that can defend 1-3 (and sometimes more) and run an offense (especially if his shooting improves)

[BitterJim]

Roberson also is coming off a 2nd Team All Defense season and has a career 2PT% over 60%.  Both things in his favor when comparing him to Smart.

Common, man, offensively it's not even close between the two. Smart can post up, run the PNR, pass, and has a knack for hitting big shots.

He also can't hit the broad side of the barn.  Sometimes the best shot is not taking one.  Something Smart absolutely needs to figure out.  Smart's career 2PT% is 41.8%.  That is all time bad.  His career 3PT% is 29.1% which has steadily been going down since his rookie year when he shot 33.5%. 

Smart can do a lot of things offensively, unfortunately he hasn't learned he should stop shooting the ball (even from 0-3' he has been barely above 50%).  Roberson is at least smart enough to know he is a bad shooter and limits his attempts from places he is unlikely to make from, which is why he is a career 60.4% shooter from 2 in a very large part because he shoots 53.1% of his shots from 0-3' and makes them at 65.9%. 

Smart definitely has more offensive potential, but until he either (A) stops shooting or (B) starts hitting more of them, he is a significantly flawed player who isn't worth that much.

Pretty much exactly what I said earlier in this thread.  Smart is an all time bad offensive player.  The numbers a clear as day.  So calling him a better offensive player than pretty much anybody is not accurate.

Change "offensive player" to "shooter" and you'd be right.  But there's more to offense than shooting/ISO, and Smart is much better at running an offense than Roberson (there's literally no comparing them in that regard).  If I had to pick one, I'd take the guy that can actually stay on the floor during crunch time instead of being fouled every trip down on offense (and has earned the trust of one of the best coaches in the NBA DESPITE his awful shooting)

[droopdog7]

Roberson also is coming off a 2nd Team All Defense season and has a career 2PT% over 60%.  Both things in his favor when comparing him to Smart.

Common, man, offensively it's not even close between the two. Smart can post up, run the PNR, pass, and has a knack for hitting big shots.

He also can't hit the broad side of the barn.  Sometimes the best shot is not taking one.  Something Smart absolutely needs to figure out.  Smart's career 2PT% is 41.8%.  That is all time bad.  His career 3PT% is 29.1% which has steadily been going down since his rookie year when he shot 33.5%. 

Smart can do a lot of things offensively, unfortunately he hasn't learned he should stop shooting the ball (even from 0-3' he has been barely above 50%).  Roberson is at least smart enough to know he is a bad shooter and limits his attempts from places he is unlikely to make from, which is why he is a career 60.4% shooter from 2 in a very large part because he shoots 53.1% of his shots from 0-3' and makes them at 65.9%. 

Smart definitely has more offensive potential, but until he either (A) stops shooting or (B) starts hitting more of them, he is a significantly flawed player who isn't worth that much.

Pretty much exactly what I said earlier in this thread.  Smart is an all time bad offensive player.  The numbers a clear as day.  So calling him a better offensive player than pretty much anybody is not accurate.

Change "offensive player" to "shooter" and you'd be right.  But there's more to offense than shooting/ISO, and Smart is much better at running an offense than Roberson (there's literally no comparing them in that regard).  If I had to pick one, I'd take the guy that can actually stay on the floor during crunch time instead of being fouled every trip down on offense (and has earned the trust of one of the best coaches in the NBA DESPITE his awful shooting)

The numbers are the numbers and they take into account not just the shooting.  And I don't believe Roberson is a PG at all.  Shoot, Marcus is a better PG than Shaq was so I guess he's more valuable. 

I don't have the numbers but Smart IMO is a below average playmaker too.  So again, just because a guy can fill a role isn't good enough.  He has to be able to do it well or he's hurting more than helping.

[Moranis]

Roberson also is coming off a 2nd Team All Defense season and has a career 2PT% over 60%.  Both things in his favor when comparing him to Smart.

Common, man, offensively it's not even close between the two. Smart can post up, run the PNR, pass, and has a knack for hitting big shots.

He also can't hit the broad side of the barn.  Sometimes the best shot is not taking one.  Something Smart absolutely needs to figure out.  Smart's career 2PT% is 41.8%.  That is all time bad.  His career 3PT% is 29.1% which has steadily been going down since his rookie year when he shot 33.5%. 

Smart can do a lot of things offensively, unfortunately he hasn't learned he should stop shooting the ball (even from 0-3' he has been barely above 50%).  Roberson is at least smart enough to know he is a bad shooter and limits his attempts from places he is unlikely to make from, which is why he is a career 60.4% shooter from 2 in a very large part because he shoots 53.1% of his shots from 0-3' and makes them at 65.9%. 

Smart definitely has more offensive potential, but until he either (A) stops shooting or (B) starts hitting more of them, he is a significantly flawed player who isn't worth that much.

Pretty much exactly what I said earlier in this thread.  Smart is an all time bad offensive player.  The numbers a clear as day.  So calling him a better offensive player than pretty much anybody is not accurate.

Change "offensive player" to "shooter" and you'd be right.  But there's more to offense than shooting/ISO, and Smart is much better at running an offense than Roberson (there's literally no comparing them in that regard).  If I had to pick one, I'd take the guy that can actually stay on the floor during crunch time instead of being fouled every trip down on offense (and has earned the trust of one of the best coaches in the NBA DESPITE his awful shooting)

Sure, Smart is a PG/SG, Roberson is a SG/SF.  Of course Smart is better at running an offense.  Roberson is a better defender and smart enough to know when not to shoot.  They are pretty similar players for their respective positions.  Pretty similar to a Tony Allen type player.  Both can have a very nice career as a defensive specialist, but neither has shown much more than that.  If Smart wants much more than MLE he should be let go.  You just can't pay a guy who should be at best your 5th or 6th best player more money than that.

[droopdog7]

Roberson also is coming off a 2nd Team All Defense season and has a career 2PT% over 60%.  Both things in his favor when comparing him to Smart.

Common, man, offensively it's not even close between the two. Smart can post up, run the PNR, pass, and has a knack for hitting big shots.

He also can't hit the broad side of the barn.  Sometimes the best shot is not taking one.  Something Smart absolutely needs to figure out.  Smart's career 2PT% is 41.8%.  That is all time bad.  His career 3PT% is 29.1% which has steadily been going down since his rookie year when he shot 33.5%. 

Smart can do a lot of things offensively, unfortunately he hasn't learned he should stop shooting the ball (even from 0-3' he has been barely above 50%).  Roberson is at least smart enough to know he is a bad shooter and limits his attempts from places he is unlikely to make from, which is why he is a career 60.4% shooter from 2 in a very large part because he shoots 53.1% of his shots from 0-3' and makes them at 65.9%. 

Smart definitely has more offensive potential, but until he either (A) stops shooting or (B) starts hitting more of them, he is a significantly flawed player who isn't worth that much.

Pretty much exactly what I said earlier in this thread.  Smart is an all time bad offensive player.  The numbers a clear as day.  So calling him a better offensive player than pretty much anybody is not accurate.

Change "offensive player" to "shooter" and you'd be right.  But there's more to offense than shooting/ISO, and Smart is much better at running an offense than Roberson (there's literally no comparing them in that regard).  If I had to pick one, I'd take the guy that can actually stay on the floor during crunch time instead of being fouled every trip down on offense (and has earned the trust of one of the best coaches in the NBA DESPITE his awful shooting)

Sure, Smart is a PG/SG, Roberson is a SG/SF.  Of course Smart is better at running an offense.  Roberson is a better defender and smart enough to know when not to shoot.  They are pretty similar players for their respective positions.  Pretty similar to a Tony Allen type player.  Both can have a very nice career as a defensive specialist, but neither has shown much more than that.  If Smart wants much more than MLE he should be let go.  You just can't pay a guy who should be at best your 5th or 6th best player more money than that.

It's VERY early of course but Brown and Tatum look pretty dang good.  Both ridiculously better prospects, and arguably better players right NOW than Smart.
 
I understand that championship teams pretty much need to pay the luxury tax.  But if Jaylen and Jayson develop like they might, and Kyrie and Hayward do their thing, I think it would be very wise to eventually let marcus walk.  At the very minimum, we let him hit free agency and see what happens.  I think the team would regret signing him to anything close to big dollars. 

[vjcsmoke]

Smart still can't shoot the ball a lick unfortunately.  I don't see how he gets the Brinks truck treatment.

He's an excellent defender and he makes great hustle plays.  But fact is he's just a top end 3 and D guy (without the 3 point shooting) and he's not going to be a starter on this team.  Does he start over Kyrie?  No.  Does he start over Jaylen?  No.

There's a limit on how much you can spend on 2nd string/6th man type players.  And that is what Smart will be even when fully healthy.  I'd love for the Celtics to keep him around.  But we'll just have to see what happens.