Author Topic: One stat to Smart will get more than Roberson  (Read 4167 times)

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Re: One stat to Smart will get more than Roberson
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2017, 01:11:24 PM »

Offline unclebay

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Smart still can't shoot the ball a lick unfortunately

I invite you to watch a Celtics game at some point this season. They can be quite eye opening.

Re: One stat to Smart will get more than Roberson
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2017, 01:41:39 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Smart still can't shoot the ball a lick unfortunately

I invite you to watch a Celtics game at some point this season. They can be quite eye opening.
Dude is shooting 31% right now.  Sure, it's only two games but what exactly are we missing if we don't watch the game?  You just can't make stuff up.

Re: One stat to Smart will get more than Roberson
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2017, 01:49:56 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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We looked really good without Smart tonight.



Against the Knicks, everyone looks good.

Re: One stat to Smart will get more than Roberson
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2017, 02:15:26 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Roberson also is coming off a 2nd Team All Defense season and has a career 2PT% over 60%.  Both things in his favor when comparing him to Smart.

Common, man, offensively it's not even close between the two. Smart can post up, run the PNR, pass, and has a knack for hitting big shots.
He also can't hit the broad side of the barn.  Sometimes the best shot is not taking one.  Something Smart absolutely needs to figure out.  Smart's career 2PT% is 41.8%.  That is all time bad.  His career 3PT% is 29.1% which has steadily been going down since his rookie year when he shot 33.5%. 

Smart can do a lot of things offensively, unfortunately he hasn't learned he should stop shooting the ball (even from 0-3' he has been barely above 50%).  Roberson is at least smart enough to know he is a bad shooter and limits his attempts from places he is unlikely to make from, which is why he is a career 60.4% shooter from 2 in a very large part because he shoots 53.1% of his shots from 0-3' and makes them at 65.9%. 

Smart definitely has more offensive potential, but until he either (A) stops shooting or (B) starts hitting more of them, he is a significantly flawed player who isn't worth that much.
Pretty much exactly what I said earlier in this thread.  Smart is an all time bad offensive player.  The numbers a clear as day.  So calling him a better offensive player than pretty much anybody is not accurate.

Change "offensive player" to "shooter" and you'd be right.  But there's more to offense than shooting/ISO, and Smart is much better at running an offense than Roberson (there's literally no comparing them in that regard).  If I had to pick one, I'd take the guy that can actually stay on the floor during crunch time instead of being fouled every trip down on offense (and has earned the trust of one of the best coaches in the NBA DESPITE his awful shooting)
The numbers are the numbers and they take into account not just the shooting.  And I don't believe Roberson is a PG at all.  Shoot, Marcus is a better PG than Shaq was so I guess he's more valuable

I don't have the numbers but Smart IMO is a below average playmaker too.  So again, just because a guy can fill a role isn't good enough.  He has to be able to do it well or he's hurting more than helping.

Dude. That's a ridiculous straw man and you know it.  (Especially because Shaq was a good offensive player while Roberson isn't.  Roberson can't score at will like Shaq could)

I'm not saying that Roberson should be able to run an offense.  What I am saying is that Smart's ability to run one can't just be ignored.  He has legitimate offensive skills, you can't ignore them just because he's a poor shooter.

And you keep saying "the numbers", but the only numbers you've given are shooting percentages.  Shooting percentages don't take into consideration more than just shooting (although if you have other numbers I'd be glad to see them)
I'm bitter.

Re: One stat to Smart will get more than Roberson
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2017, 02:46:18 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Roberson also is coming off a 2nd Team All Defense season and has a career 2PT% over 60%.  Both things in his favor when comparing him to Smart.

Common, man, offensively it's not even close between the two. Smart can post up, run the PNR, pass, and has a knack for hitting big shots.
He also can't hit the broad side of the barn.  Sometimes the best shot is not taking one.  Something Smart absolutely needs to figure out.  Smart's career 2PT% is 41.8%.  That is all time bad.  His career 3PT% is 29.1% which has steadily been going down since his rookie year when he shot 33.5%. 

Smart can do a lot of things offensively, unfortunately he hasn't learned he should stop shooting the ball (even from 0-3' he has been barely above 50%).  Roberson is at least smart enough to know he is a bad shooter and limits his attempts from places he is unlikely to make from, which is why he is a career 60.4% shooter from 2 in a very large part because he shoots 53.1% of his shots from 0-3' and makes them at 65.9%. 

Smart definitely has more offensive potential, but until he either (A) stops shooting or (B) starts hitting more of them, he is a significantly flawed player who isn't worth that much.
Pretty much exactly what I said earlier in this thread.  Smart is an all time bad offensive player.  The numbers a clear as day.  So calling him a better offensive player than pretty much anybody is not accurate.

Change "offensive player" to "shooter" and you'd be right.  But there's more to offense than shooting/ISO, and Smart is much better at running an offense than Roberson (there's literally no comparing them in that regard).  If I had to pick one, I'd take the guy that can actually stay on the floor during crunch time instead of being fouled every trip down on offense (and has earned the trust of one of the best coaches in the NBA DESPITE his awful shooting)
The numbers are the numbers and they take into account not just the shooting.  And I don't believe Roberson is a PG at all.  Shoot, Marcus is a better PG than Shaq was so I guess he's more valuable

I don't have the numbers but Smart IMO is a below average playmaker too.  So again, just because a guy can fill a role isn't good enough.  He has to be able to do it well or he's hurting more than helping.

Dude. That's a ridiculous straw man and you know it.  (Especially because Shaq was a good offensive player while Roberson isn't.  Roberson can't score at will like Shaq could)

I'm not saying that Roberson should be able to run an offense.  What I am saying is that Smart's ability to run one can't just be ignored.  He has legitimate offensive skills, you can't ignore them just because he's a poor shooter.

And you keep saying "the numbers", but the only numbers you've given are shooting percentages.  Shooting percentages don't take into consideration more than just shooting (although if you have other numbers I'd be glad to see them)
Frankly, Smarts offensive numbers are NSFW.  They're as gruesome as it gets.  I supose advanced stats might tell a more complete story but that's not my thing so I won't post them (nor do I know what they say).

And I get your point but if smart is supposed to be a pg (and roberson isn't) then of course he should be better at running an offense.  But my point is being able to do it doesn't mean he's good at it, and he isn't.  In fact, I would speculate that there isn't a single offensive area where smart is a above average.  He's a bad shooter, he's a bad finisher, he has an average handle, he's below average at running the point. 

Okay, he posts people up now and again.  But what do the numbers show there and are we going to rely heavily on this as part of the offense?  Will that get is buckets consistently in crunch time (versus other options)? Not sure.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 05:17:43 PM by droopdog7 »

Re: One stat to Smart will get more than Roberson
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2017, 03:19:07 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Couple of things:

The OP's thought that Smart is worth more than Roberson simply because he can shoot FT's at a higher percentage is just wrong. Is it worth millions of dollars a year if you shoot FTs at 75% but are getting to the line less than 3 times a game? No its not.

Second, the idea that Smart is a good post up player is a fallacy. He tries to post up players but seldom seals the deal with FTs or 2 pts. He shoots 51% from 0-3' and 34% from 3-10'. Those numbers are awful.

Lastly, Smart's assist to turnover ratio is only 2.3 to 1 isn't very good for a facilitator.

Unless he can become an average to above shooter, he just isn't worth more than Roberson type money. Celtics would be better off with a main 3 guard rotation of Brown/Kyrie/Rozier going forward and save the money that would have to be given to Smart so they can lock up Brown and Tatum in years to come. Why pay luxury tax now for a 3 and D player that can't 3?