Author Topic: Windhorst: Ainge was "really upset" about tampering in regards to Horford  (Read 9277 times)

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Offline philr13

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Important to keep in mind that ultimately Kemba Walker came to Boston in a sign-and-trade. It's pretty hard to make the argument that tampering took place, even if it did. Charlotte negotiated a double sign-and-trade with Boston. They're not going to complain to the league about tampering.

Horford, on the other hand, reportedly had a deal on the table from an unnamed team long before the moratorium ended and broke off negotiations with Boston. That's the very definition of tampering.

It is certainly worth Boston's while to approach the league about this. At the very least they might prevent this from happening again.
No it isn't.  Did you see all the deals being reported right when free agency struck?  The whole league was tampering which is why Silver is talking about getting rid of rules that aren't enforceable.

It’s a different thing if a player declines an option because of tampering than if teams start negotiating with free agents early.  Now we don’t know, and maybe the league will never know should they bother to look into it, if Philly is the team that induced Horford to decline his option — maybe there was another team that tampered and Philly hopped in after the option was declined — but they are not the same thing.

I don't see what declining his option has to do with anything. He was going to do that no matter who he signed with, including Boston.

What's at issue here is that Horford's people bungled this. There was no reason for them to make his position known via the media on June 18th. They used Steve Bulpett several times as a media voice. They didn't have to do this in order to negotiate with Boston. Maybe they were negotiating with more than one team other than Boston?

If they'd maintained communication with Boston and signed with Philly on June 30th, all would be well.

If Boston files a formal complaint against Philly, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the league take punitive action against the Sixers.

Offline Birdman

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Heck all teams and players do it..how u going catch them? Only way is tape recorder
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Offline Moranis

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Important to keep in mind that ultimately Kemba Walker came to Boston in a sign-and-trade. It's pretty hard to make the argument that tampering took place, even if it did. Charlotte negotiated a double sign-and-trade with Boston. They're not going to complain to the league about tampering.

Horford, on the other hand, reportedly had a deal on the table from an unnamed team long before the moratorium ended and broke off negotiations with Boston. That's the very definition of tampering.

It is certainly worth Boston's while to approach the league about this. At the very least they might prevent this from happening again.
No it isn't.  Did you see all the deals being reported right when free agency struck?  The whole league was tampering which is why Silver is talking about getting rid of rules that aren't enforceable.

It’s a different thing if a player declines an option because of tampering than if teams start negotiating with free agents early.  Now we don’t know, and maybe the league will never know should they bother to look into it, if Philly is the team that induced Horford to decline his option — maybe there was another team that tampered and Philly hopped in after the option was declined — but they are not the same thing.
Except it was known that Horford was going to opt out for basically the whole season and was certainly confirmed months before he actually did.  There is no way a team tampered with Horford to get him to opt out that early.  In fact the C's were glad he opted out because they thought he would sign at a cheaper rate for longer giving them cap relief and allowing them to keep him.  Obviously the Sixers (or maybe others) thought Horford was worth more than 3 years, 60 million.  The C's were just caught off guard that Horford had such a robust offer.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Just some more whining from Ainge. 
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Offline gpap

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Important to keep in mind that ultimately Kemba Walker came to Boston in a sign-and-trade. It's pretty hard to make the argument that tampering took place, even if it did. Charlotte negotiated a double sign-and-trade with Boston. They're not going to complain to the league about tampering.

Horford, on the other hand, reportedly had a deal on the table from an unnamed team long before the moratorium ended and broke off negotiations with Boston. That's the very definition of tampering.

It is certainly worth Boston's while to approach the league about this. At the very least they might prevent this from happening again.
No it isn't.  Did you see all the deals being reported right when free agency struck?  The whole league was tampering which is why Silver is talking about getting rid of rules that aren't enforceable.

It’s a different thing if a player declines an option because of tampering than if teams start negotiating with free agents early.  Now we don’t know, and maybe the league will never know should they bother to look into it, if Philly is the team that induced Horford to decline his option — maybe there was another team that tampered and Philly hopped in after the option was declined — but they are not the same thing.

I don't see what declining his option has to do with anything. He was going to do that no matter who he signed with, including Boston.

What's at issue here is that Horford's people bungled this. There was no reason for them to make his position known via the media on June 18th. They used Steve Bulpett several times as a media voice. They didn't have to do this in order to negotiate with Boston. Maybe they were negotiating with more than one team other than Boston?

If they'd maintained communication with Boston and signed with Philly on June 30th, all would be well.

If Boston files a formal complaint against Philly, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the league take punitive action against the Sixers.


I hope they do!! It's time for the Celts to start fighting back on and off the court.

Offline nickagneta

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Important to keep in mind that ultimately Kemba Walker came to Boston in a sign-and-trade. It's pretty hard to make the argument that tampering took place, even if it did. Charlotte negotiated a double sign-and-trade with Boston. They're not going to complain to the league about tampering.

Horford, on the other hand, reportedly had a deal on the table from an unnamed team long before the moratorium ended and broke off negotiations with Boston. That's the very definition of tampering.

It is certainly worth Boston's while to approach the league about this. At the very least they might prevent this from happening again.
No it isn't.  Did you see all the deals being reported right when free agency struck?  The whole league was tampering which is why Silver is talking about getting rid of rules that aren't enforceable.

It’s a different thing if a player declines an option because of tampering than if teams start negotiating with free agents early.  Now we don’t know, and maybe the league will never know should they bother to look into it, if Philly is the team that induced Horford to decline his option — maybe there was another team that tampered and Philly hopped in after the option was declined — but they are not the same thing.
Except it was known that Horford was going to opt out for basically the whole season and was certainly confirmed months before he actually did.  There is no way a team tampered with Horford to get him to opt out that early.  In fact the C's were glad he opted out because they thought he would sign at a cheaper rate for longer giving them cap relief and allowing them to keep him.  Obviously the Sixers (or maybe others) thought Horford was worth more than 3 years, 60 million.  The C's were just caught off guard that Horford had such a robust offer.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Just some more whining from Ainge.
The Celtics were not "glad" when he opted out because that is when Horford shut down negotiations with Boston. Boston had been negotiating with Al upto the point where he opted out and then Horford shut down talks. Boston wasn't expecting that as they knew Al could get an extension for his opt out date while they talk. Instead, Horford didn't ask for an extension to keep negotiating, he shut down any communication with Boston and opted out. The Celtics feelings on his opting out was not anywhere near "glad" at that time. As Windhorst says, Ainge was "really upset" not "glad".

Offline Moranis

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Important to keep in mind that ultimately Kemba Walker came to Boston in a sign-and-trade. It's pretty hard to make the argument that tampering took place, even if it did. Charlotte negotiated a double sign-and-trade with Boston. They're not going to complain to the league about tampering.

Horford, on the other hand, reportedly had a deal on the table from an unnamed team long before the moratorium ended and broke off negotiations with Boston. That's the very definition of tampering.

It is certainly worth Boston's while to approach the league about this. At the very least they might prevent this from happening again.
No it isn't.  Did you see all the deals being reported right when free agency struck?  The whole league was tampering which is why Silver is talking about getting rid of rules that aren't enforceable.

It’s a different thing if a player declines an option because of tampering than if teams start negotiating with free agents early.  Now we don’t know, and maybe the league will never know should they bother to look into it, if Philly is the team that induced Horford to decline his option — maybe there was another team that tampered and Philly hopped in after the option was declined — but they are not the same thing.
Except it was known that Horford was going to opt out for basically the whole season and was certainly confirmed months before he actually did.  There is no way a team tampered with Horford to get him to opt out that early.  In fact the C's were glad he opted out because they thought he would sign at a cheaper rate for longer giving them cap relief and allowing them to keep him.  Obviously the Sixers (or maybe others) thought Horford was worth more than 3 years, 60 million.  The C's were just caught off guard that Horford had such a robust offer.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Just some more whining from Ainge.
The Celtics were not "glad" when he opted out because that is when Horford shut down negotiations with Boston. Boston had been negotiating with Al upto the point where he opted out and then Horford shut down talks. Boston wasn't expecting that as they knew Al could get an extension for his opt out date while they talk. Instead, Horford didn't ask for an extension to keep negotiating, he shut down any communication with Boston and opted out. The Celtics feelings on his opting out was not anywhere near "glad" at that time. As Windhorst says, Ainge was "really upset" not "glad".
I meant it as more in they hoped he opt out and then re-sign for a cheaper but longer term contract.  Obviously they aren't glad he left, but the team absolutely was expecting him to opt out. 
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Offline CptZoogs

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As stated by others, Ainge has no right to be upset based on how the Kemba signing played out.  I'm not sure how upset he even could have been.  The tampering is getting pretty silly.  It's basically like people going over the speed limit at this point.  If you get caught, either you are being too blatant or someone has an ax to grind.  My first post on this site was an idea to redraft each teams starting 5 every year.  I know it will never happen, but we don't seem that far off from the players doing it themselves.  At least a draft would stamp out tampering, tanking, and competitive imbalance.

Offline philr13

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As stated by others, Ainge has no right to be upset based on how the Kemba signing played out. 

As has been stated elsewhere, the Kemba signing and the Horford signing are apples and oranges. Boston has every reason to be upset about one of it's players reaching an agreement with another team nearly 2 weeks before the moratorium ended.

Kemba was still speaking to Charlotte right up until the deadline and then ended up being part of a sigh-and-trade. Charlotte didn't get shut out of the situation.

Offline Moranis

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As stated by others, Ainge has no right to be upset based on how the Kemba signing played out. 

As has been stated elsewhere, the Kemba signing and the Horford signing are apples and oranges. Boston has every reason to be upset about one of it's players reaching an agreement with another team nearly 2 weeks before the moratorium ended.

Kemba was still speaking to Charlotte right up until the deadline and then ended up being part of a sigh-and-trade. Charlotte didn't get shut out of the situation.
Boston and Philly attempted to negotiate a sign and trade for Horford, they just couldn't reach an agreement.  There really is no practical difference.  They both had deals in place before the deadline.
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Offline celticsclay

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Listening to Dan Patrick right now, his show from yesterday. He interviewed Al Horford and said asked Al if he had heard the reports that Danny Ainge felt like Horford was tampered with. Al kind of laughed and said what can I say. Then he said something along the lines of I really love Danny and I know he was upset we were not able to work something out.

Offline jambr380

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As stated by others, Ainge has no right to be upset based on how the Kemba signing played out. 

As has been stated elsewhere, the Kemba signing and the Horford signing are apples and oranges. Boston has every reason to be upset about one of it's players reaching an agreement with another team nearly 2 weeks before the moratorium ended.

Kemba was still speaking to Charlotte right up until the deadline and then ended up being part of a sigh-and-trade. Charlotte didn't get shut out of the situation.

Yeah, if the Cs had ended up with Josh Richardson (for instance) in a s&t with Philly (and MIA), that would be more like what happened with Kemba/Rozier, and CHA.

The needing to negotiate a contract with complex terms (Horford) vs the other automatically being a max (Kemba) seems like the real problem. I get that both might technically be tampering, but gauging Kemba's interest in BOS through his agent seems different than what happened with Horford.

I am not appalled or anything, just pointing out and agreeing that there are clearly differences.

Offline philr13

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As stated by others, Ainge has no right to be upset based on how the Kemba signing played out. 

As has been stated elsewhere, the Kemba signing and the Horford signing are apples and oranges. Boston has every reason to be upset about one of it's players reaching an agreement with another team nearly 2 weeks before the moratorium ended.

Kemba was still speaking to Charlotte right up until the deadline and then ended up being part of a sigh-and-trade. Charlotte didn't get shut out of the situation.
Boston and Philly attempted to negotiate a sign and trade for Horford, they just couldn't reach an agreement.  There really is no practical difference.  They both had deals in place before the deadline.

I don't recall any talk of a sign-and-trade between Philly and Boston. There was talk about a possible sign-and-trade between the Nets and Boston for Irving, but that didn't go anywhere.

Offline Moranis

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As stated by others, Ainge has no right to be upset based on how the Kemba signing played out. 

As has been stated elsewhere, the Kemba signing and the Horford signing are apples and oranges. Boston has every reason to be upset about one of it's players reaching an agreement with another team nearly 2 weeks before the moratorium ended.

Kemba was still speaking to Charlotte right up until the deadline and then ended up being part of a sigh-and-trade. Charlotte didn't get shut out of the situation.
Boston and Philly attempted to negotiate a sign and trade for Horford, they just couldn't reach an agreement.  There really is no practical difference.  They both had deals in place before the deadline.

I don't recall any talk of a sign-and-trade between Philly and Boston. There was talk about a possible sign-and-trade between the Nets and Boston for Irving, but that didn't go anywhere.
Washburn tweeted it out.  Said Boston tried to do sign and trades of both Irving and Horford, but the Nets and Sixers wanted too much in draft compensation to get deals done.
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Offline mmmmm

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As stated by others, Ainge has no right to be upset based on how the Kemba signing played out. 

As has been stated elsewhere, the Kemba signing and the Horford signing are apples and oranges. Boston has every reason to be upset about one of it's players reaching an agreement with another team nearly 2 weeks before the moratorium ended.

Kemba was still speaking to Charlotte right up until the deadline and then ended up being part of a sigh-and-trade. Charlotte didn't get shut out of the situation.
Boston and Philly attempted to negotiate a sign and trade for Horford, they just couldn't reach an agreement.  There really is no practical difference.  They both had deals in place before the deadline.

I don't recall any talk of a sign-and-trade between Philly and Boston. There was talk about a possible sign-and-trade between the Nets and Boston for Irving, but that didn't go anywhere.
Washburn tweeted it out.  Said Boston tried to do sign and trades of both Irving and Horford, but the Nets and Sixers wanted too much in draft compensation to get deals done.

The timing of that looked more like Danny trying desperately to salvage lemonade out of lemons at the last minute (and getting nothing but a hand to talk to from PHI).  That didn't all seem like a case of a real negotiation between two teams.
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Online ozgod

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Listening to Dan Patrick right now, his show from yesterday. He interviewed Al Horford and said asked Al if he had heard the reports that Danny Ainge felt like Horford was tampered with. Al kind of laughed and said what can I say. Then he said something along the lines of I really love Danny and I know he was upset we were not able to work something out.

Here's what Horford had to say:



https://twitter.com/brohrbach/status/1153403573918720001?s=20

My opinion is that everyone does it, we did it with Kemba, so we can't really be hypocritical.
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