Improve the bench

[Roy H.]

Incidentally we are one of five teams over the second apron, to whom this restriction applies.

I think the buyout restriction applies to teams above the first apron, rather than the second.

[dannyboy35]

  No interest in Konchar or Marshall

[Phantom255x]

Future Celtics' Nick Richards with a 21/10 last night.

I also kind of look at him as a potential Horford replacement, if we can't get Stewart in the future.

[dannyboy35]

  How many 1sts would it take to get Caruso in a Pritchard deal and would you do it? Curious what fans think.

[Roy H.]

  How many 1sts would it take to get Caruso in a Pritchard deal and would you do it? Curious what fans think.

I wouldn't give up any firsts.  We need to hold on to those as we approach a long period over the second apron.

[Celtics978Fan]

Two small trades and fully sign one of our two-way players would make a huge change to our team.  These three things help us this year plus in the up coming years. 

Trade One
Celtics - Luke Kornet, Svi Mykhailiuk, Two 2nd rounders
Hornets - Nick Richard

Hornets are in rebuild more with now trading Rozier so draft capital they're looking for.  Honestly if they wanted our first this year instead of two seconds I do it still.  Richard is sign for 2 more years after this, younger, better rebounder and roll to the backet player.  Plus could be in a trade next year.

Trade Two
Celtics - Two 2nd rounders
Grizzlies - John Konchar

Grizzles looking for draft capital and we get to use our TPE.  Also by doing this Konchar is signed for 3 more years after this and could be pair after this year with a player like Pritchard to bring in a more expensive player if he doesn't work out.  Konchar also gives us another 2/3 which it seems we're always going to need.

Fully sign Neemias Queta.  Yes, he's not the most refined player but when he's playing he's energetic, boards and plays defense.  Celtics sign him to a two or three year deal and he becomes a valuable backup for us.  Come playoffs the game can slow down and having a young big can come in handy specially with Horford and Porzingis needing to keep minutes down during the season.

This also gives us the ability to keep Pritchard.  Honestly I'm not a huge fan of him so I'd be willing to package him in deals but he might be worth more in the offseason. 

Who are some of your not well known players you'd like the Celtics to trade for and think they could help win.

Is Richard an upgrade over Kornet? I have my doubts.

He's a major upgrade over Kornet, between stats he puts up, a rim runner and also a better paint defender.  Plus he's signed cheap for the next 2 years after this year.

[ozgod]

Two small trades and fully sign one of our two-way players would make a huge change to our team.  These three things help us this year plus in the up coming years. 

Trade One
Celtics - Luke Kornet, Svi Mykhailiuk, Two 2nd rounders
Hornets - Nick Richard

Hornets are in rebuild more with now trading Rozier so draft capital they're looking for.  Honestly if they wanted our first this year instead of two seconds I do it still.  Richard is sign for 2 more years after this, younger, better rebounder and roll to the backet player.  Plus could be in a trade next year.

Trade Two
Celtics - Two 2nd rounders
Grizzlies - John Konchar

Grizzles looking for draft capital and we get to use our TPE.  Also by doing this Konchar is signed for 3 more years after this and could be pair after this year with a player like Pritchard to bring in a more expensive player if he doesn't work out.  Konchar also gives us another 2/3 which it seems we're always going to need.

Fully sign Neemias Queta.  Yes, he's not the most refined player but when he's playing he's energetic, boards and plays defense.  Celtics sign him to a two or three year deal and he becomes a valuable backup for us.  Come playoffs the game can slow down and having a young big can come in handy specially with Horford and Porzingis needing to keep minutes down during the season.

This also gives us the ability to keep Pritchard.  Honestly I'm not a huge fan of him so I'd be willing to package him in deals but he might be worth more in the offseason. 

Who are some of your not well known players you'd like the Celtics to trade for and think they could help win.

Is Richard an upgrade over Kornet? I have my doubts.

He's a major upgrade over Kornet, between stats he puts up, a rim runner and also a better paint defender.  Plus he's signed cheap for the next 2 years after this year.

Richards is currently playing 24 mpg, which is 10 more than Luke. Their per-36 and per-100 stats are actually quite similar. Kornet has better efficiency, has a better offensive and defensive rating (though that's probably because he has better players around him), and is better across a wider range of stats (offensive rebounds, assists, steals, blocks).

click to enlarge


We could argue that if Richards was playing with teammates that Luke has his stats would be better, but he's also on $5m, which is $3m more than Kornet. So he would fit into the GWill TPE. Not a big deal until you realize we're already over the luxury tax, so that extra $3m costs (if I calculate the luxury tax correctly) $9m in tax for a total of $12m. And we're over the 2nd apron so that's $3m more we would have to cut to get back under it if we had to.

Most importantly, where would the extra 10 mins for him come from? I guess it would be Horford who is currently on 27 mins. But Horford is shooting 41% from 3 and Richards is shooting 0%. I don't really see him as a Horford replacement because he doesn't really spread the floor - he's more like a more polished, more expensive version of Queta. Would he be happy with a reduced role and reduced minutes to get a ring, when he might be trying to get paid? Or would he get frustrated and get disruptive in the locker room?

No doubt he'd be a contributor, a lot of teams would love to have him, I just don't know if it would be worth the cost for what his role would be in this team and I'm uncertain if the fit is right. Now if we lose KP or Horford to injury that would change our need and his fit might be better, but only then I think.

Our constraints - both financial and the fit/role a player would have in our team given any backup we get would not get a lot of minutes - make it really hard to find the right fit of player at the right cost. I'm sure they are out there though, somewhere 

[obnoxiousmime]

The thing is, if you don't use the exception it goes away. Since we desperately need mid-size contracts on the roster, they seriously should consider just acquiring someone just for flexibility's sake. It doesn't matter if it's someone that could necessarily play significant rotation minutes. We already can't deal Horford just because he's our culture guy and elder statesman. That leaves only Pritchard as someone not making a minimum-type deal. I think next year is when the 2nd apron rule kicks in where you can't even combine salaries to acquire one bigger contract, further limiting the Cs options.

I'm not saying they should add a negative contract, but someone neutral with a contract that extends past this season would give them more options going forward.

[ozgod]

The thing is, if you don't use the exception it goes away. Since we desperately need mid-size contracts on the roster, they seriously should consider just acquiring someone just for flexibility's sake. It doesn't matter if it's someone that could necessarily play significant rotation minutes. We already can't deal Horford just because he's our culture guy and elder statesman. That leaves only Pritchard as someone not making a minimum-type deal. I think next year is when the 2nd apron rule kicks in where you can't even combine salaries to acquire one bigger contract, further limiting the Cs options.

I'm not saying they should add a negative contract, but someone neutral with a contract that extends past this season would give them more options going forward.

I get what you're saying about creating a contract in the $5-10m range for trading purposes. Since we are already over the 2nd apron, I guess the only issue would be the luxury tax implication. I have to look it up, but I don't believe the GWill TPE is part of the Cs salary cap for calculation purposes...they only include taxable salaries and dead money. The only ramification then would be the luxury tax paid if a player were absorbed into it. So in Richards' case his $5m becomes $20m including the repeater luxury tax. Really comes down to whether Brad thinks that's a good use of money for an end of bench insurance guy...though if it were me, I'd go ahead and do it because it's not my money, I'm sure Wyc can afford it since we're going for broke this year so if he goes broke so what

[BitterJim]

The thing is, if you don't use the exception it goes away. Since we desperately need mid-size contracts on the roster, they seriously should consider just acquiring someone just for flexibility's sake. It doesn't matter if it's someone that could necessarily play significant rotation minutes. We already can't deal Horford just because he's our culture guy and elder statesman. That leaves only Pritchard as someone not making a minimum-type deal. I think next year is when the 2nd apron rule kicks in where you can't even combine salaries to acquire one bigger contract, further limiting the Cs options.

I'm not saying they should add a negative contract, but someone neutral with a contract that extends past this season would give them more options going forward.

I get what you're saying about creating a contract in the $5-10m range for trading purposes. Since we are already over the 2nd apron, I guess the only issue would be the luxury tax implication. I have to look it up, but I don't believe the GWill TPE is part of the Cs salary cap for calculation purposes...they only include taxable salaries and dead money. The only ramification then would be the luxury tax paid if a player were absorbed into it. So in Richards' case his $5m becomes $20m including the repeater luxury tax. Really comes down to whether Brad thinks that's a good use of money for an end of bench insurance guy...though if it were me, I'd go ahead and do it because it's not my money, I'm sure Wyc can afford it since we're going for broke this year so if he goes broke so what

TPE's have a cap hold (equal to their size), but that only matters for over/under the cap calculations; it isn't included in tax or apron calculations

[Moranis]

Boston shouldn't care about money this year. Go all in and go for it. Money is a much bigger problem.in future, so spend now and try to win.  This is the season.  Go for it.

[celticinorlando]

Get who you want and who you think will help. Celtics still need one more bench piece.

[Vermont Green]

I know nothing about Nick Richards.  Not sure I remember ever seeing him play.  That he is putting up some decent but unremarkable stats on a team like CHA is not in of itself much to go on.  I have my doubts that he would be an upgrade on Kornet in the near term.  Players like that, coming from bad teams, tend not to translate when put on a contending team.  Plus he is already 26 (Kornet is only 28).  He may not have all that much ceiling left.

I wouldn't be against it (dependent on what we give up) but I would also not be very excited about it.

[Celtics2021]

The thing is, if you don't use the exception it goes away. Since we desperately need mid-size contracts on the roster, they seriously should consider just acquiring someone just for flexibility's sake. It doesn't matter if it's someone that could necessarily play significant rotation minutes. We already can't deal Horford just because he's our culture guy and elder statesman. That leaves only Pritchard as someone not making a minimum-type deal. I think next year is when the 2nd apron rule kicks in where you can't even combine salaries to acquire one bigger contract, further limiting the Cs options.

I'm not saying they should add a negative contract, but someone neutral with a contract that extends past this season would give them more options going forward.

The real thing is that the TPE was coincidental to the Grant deal.  We made that trade to get some second rounders for Grant, and the TPE is just something that comes along with it.  The Celtics would have done the same thing if there were no TPE given.  So should the Celtics turn around and spend those 2nds just to make sure the TPE doesn’t go to waste?  That would be wasting the seconds, which were the more important commodity.  The TPE should be used to acquire someone who will help the team, and it’s really unclear if Richards would (which is not intended to be a knock on Richards, who’s a third center on a contender, but an acknowledgement that Kornet is playing surprisingly well this year).

If the Celtics really don’t care about cost (which isn’t a very tenable argument, they obviously do) and want a mid-scale contract to trade in the future (they probably don’t, especially since they won’t be able to aggregate salaries going forward), then rather than paying seconds for a player they don’t need, they should take on a contract that extends into next year for some seconds from a team trying to shed salary.  Or they should make a trade around draft night when the cost to acquire such a player wil likely be cheaper, as teams are trying to clear the books for free agency.

But the main point is that this TPE is a “nice to have” for the Celtics, and not a “it would be a waste” not to use it.  They got their picks for Grant, and the TPE just came along with them.

[Celtics978Fan]

Two small trades and fully sign one of our two-way players would make a huge change to our team.  These three things help us this year plus in the up coming years. 

Trade One
Celtics - Luke Kornet, Svi Mykhailiuk, Two 2nd rounders
Hornets - Nick Richard

Hornets are in rebuild more with now trading Rozier so draft capital they're looking for.  Honestly if they wanted our first this year instead of two seconds I do it still.  Richard is sign for 2 more years after this, younger, better rebounder and roll to the backet player.  Plus could be in a trade next year.

Trade Two
Celtics - Two 2nd rounders
Grizzlies - John Konchar

Grizzles looking for draft capital and we get to use our TPE.  Also by doing this Konchar is signed for 3 more years after this and could be pair after this year with a player like Pritchard to bring in a more expensive player if he doesn't work out.  Konchar also gives us another 2/3 which it seems we're always going to need.

Fully sign Neemias Queta.  Yes, he's not the most refined player but when he's playing he's energetic, boards and plays defense.  Celtics sign him to a two or three year deal and he becomes a valuable backup for us.  Come playoffs the game can slow down and having a young big can come in handy specially with Horford and Porzingis needing to keep minutes down during the season.

This also gives us the ability to keep Pritchard.  Honestly I'm not a huge fan of him so I'd be willing to package him in deals but he might be worth more in the offseason. 

Who are some of your not well known players you'd like the Celtics to trade for and think they could help win.

Is Richard an upgrade over Kornet? I have my doubts.

He's a major upgrade over Kornet, between stats he puts up, a rim runner and also a better paint defender.  Plus he's signed cheap for the next 2 years after this year.

Richards is currently playing 24 mpg, which is 10 more than Luke. Their per-36 and per-100 stats are actually quite similar. Kornet has better efficiency, has a better offensive and defensive rating (though that's probably because he has better players around him), and is better across a wider range of stats (offensive rebounds, assists, steals, blocks).

click to enlarge


We could argue that if Richards was playing with teammates that Luke has his stats would be better, but he's also on $5m, which is $3m more than Kornet. So he would fit into the GWill TPE. Not a big deal until you realize we're already over the luxury tax, so that extra $3m costs (if I calculate the luxury tax correctly) $9m in tax for a total of $12m. And we're over the 2nd apron so that's $3m more we would have to cut to get back under it if we had to.

Most importantly, where would the extra 10 mins for him come from? I guess it would be Horford who is currently on 27 mins. But Horford is shooting 41% from 3 and Richards is shooting 0%. I don't really see him as a Horford replacement because he doesn't really spread the floor - he's more like a more polished, more expensive version of Queta. Would he be happy with a reduced role and reduced minutes to get a ring, when he might be trying to get paid? Or would he get frustrated and get disruptive in the locker room?

No doubt he'd be a contributor, a lot of teams would love to have him, I just don't know if it would be worth the cost for what his role would be in this team and I'm uncertain if the fit is right. Now if we lose KP or Horford to injury that would change our need and his fit might be better, but only then I think.

Our constraints - both financial and the fit/role a player would have in our team given any backup we get would not get a lot of minutes - make it really hard to find the right fit of player at the right cost. I'm sure they are out there though, somewhere 

Richards I think becomes a bigger insurance policy then Kornet for sure.  Money isn't an issue with this team this year.  Also I think you have to consider like I said he's signed for two more years after this.  With not knowing how much Horford will play next year, he could keep Horford fresher next year as well.  When you look at the money with a player of Richards production in his minutes for his price, I don't think you can beat it really.  Plus the ability he gives of a rim runner which isn't Kornet's game, he could show even more value here in Boston.