Author Topic: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis  (Read 70677 times)

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Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #165 on: April 24, 2016, 07:36:53 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Playing the inside game is about heart , 6 10 is plenty big if you play like Cowans or Dramond Green .

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #166 on: April 24, 2016, 08:02:47 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Two bigs I want us to acquire in the 1st round are Bender and Thon Maker. Athleticism, skill, above average physical attributes, quickness and talent are what they possess.

I haven't seen much of Maker - haven't been that impressed by Bender.

I look at Bender and I see the perfect example of a "jack of all trades, but master of none" guy.  He has few major flaws in his game - doesn't seem to be a lot that he does really poorly.  However the also doesn't seem to be ANYTHING that he does extremely well either.

His interior defence is above average, his perimeter defence is above average, his passing ability is above average, his shooting ability is above average, his rebounding ability is above average, his ball handling ability is above average, his shot blocking ability is above average. 

The list goes on and on and on.

I don't really see a single skill he is truly elite at, nor do I see any single skill that I think he has the potential to ever become truly elite at. 

If I try to think of an NBA comparison to Bender, probably the closest guy that I can think of is Lamar Odom.  Odom is a guy who was able to become a very good NBA player simply because he was pretty good at so many things.  However he never became a star player because there was never really any one thing that he was ever elite at.

I see Bender as very much that same kind of player.  I don't think I would dream of picking up in the top three, because I don't think Bender has star potential - and I think there are other guys projected to go after Ingram/Simmons who do. 

Hield, Dunn, Brown, Jackson, Labussiere - I feel those guys all have a lot more chance of becoming stars then Bender has.   

Bender should become a solid all rounder, maybe even a good all rounder, but I want more than that from a top 3 pick.

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #167 on: April 24, 2016, 08:04:35 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Playing the inside game is about heart , 6 10 is plenty big if you play like Cowans or Dramond Green .

Draymond Green has a 3" longer wingspan then Sabonis, is significantly stronger and has an outside shot.  Those three characteristics (strength, length, jumper) are critical to Green being as good as he is.

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #168 on: April 24, 2016, 08:22:30 AM »

Offline greenhead85

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Two bigs I want us to acquire in the 1st round are Bender and Thon Maker. Athleticism, skill, above average physical attributes, quickness and talent are what they possess.



Hield, Dunn, Brown, Jackson, Labussiere - I feel those guys all have a lot more chance of becoming stars then Bender has.   

Bender should become a solid all rounder, maybe even a good all rounder, but I want more than that from a top 3 pick.

Hield reminds me of Chuck Person. He needs an excellent playmaker to be efficient.

Dunn appears dominant in college level. Doubt it would be the same in NBA.

I don't see Jackson, Brown and Skal helping this current roster.

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #169 on: April 24, 2016, 08:56:41 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I look at Bender and I see the perfect example of a "jack of all trades, but master of none" guy.  He has few major flaws in his game - doesn't seem to be a lot that he does really poorly.  However the also doesn't seem to be ANYTHING that he does extremely well either.

I see a dud who international stats are indicative that he is a tall guy who can run.   He has not even came close to dominating overseas.


http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Dragan-Bender/Summary/41582

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

Don't these worry you?

At least the Zinger, has better stats

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/kristaps-porzingis-1.html

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #170 on: April 24, 2016, 09:39:10 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Two bigs I want us to acquire in the 1st round are Bender and Thon Maker. Athleticism, skill, above average physical attributes, quickness and talent are what they possess.



Hield, Dunn, Brown, Jackson, Labussiere - I feel those guys all have a lot more chance of becoming stars then Bender has.   

Bender should become a solid all rounder, maybe even a good all rounder, but I want more than that from a top 3 pick.

Hield reminds me of Chuck Person. He needs an excellent playmaker to be efficient.

Dunn appears dominant in college level. Doubt it would be the same in NBA.

I don't see Jackson, Brown and Skal helping this current roster.


I honestly don't think Bender is any more "nba ready" then Skal is.  He doesn't have anything close to an NBA body, and NBA bigs will eat him alive inside.  I don't think he'll be able to defend NBA wings all that well either. 

Skal isn't nearly as skinny as Bender is and can probably at least hold his own against most NBA bigs.  I think he's already got the tools to be a quality rebounder, interior defender and inside finisher at the NBA level too.  I don't see how Bender would be any more useful from day one then Skal - both are quite raw.   

Brown could be incredibly valuable to us from day one.  We are desperately lacking depth at the SF spot (Turner is our only backup SF and he is a free agent) so we are going to have to add somebody at that position one way or the other.  Jaylen Brown is a two way talent who may well be THE most NBA ready prospect in the draft - he already has an NBA body, elite athleticism and a winners mentality.  You're basically looking at Andrew Wiggins offence combined with Justice Winslow defence/rebounding/mentality - a guy like that is going to make an impact the minute he steps on the court.  He's talented enough that he may well leapfrog Crowder in the starting lineup by the time his rookie season is over.  He's very useful to us, and his upside is huge.

Hield gives us something we absolutely desperately need - scoring/shooting.  He is a guy who can shoot.  From 5 feet behind the three point line.  With a hand in his face.  The man can straight out shoot the ball.  People here have been begging for us to find a pure shooter - somebody who is so dangerous from outside that he demands the defence's attention every time he touches the ball.  Hield is that kind of player.  But he's got the potential to be more then just that.  He has the length, size (just under 6'5") and mobility to become a solid NBA defender and he's pretty good at finishing at the basket too.  He can spot up, he can hit shots on the move, he can hit shots with a hand in his face. He's just a straight out scorer.  I could easily see him becoming Bradley Beal good - maybe even Damian Lillard good.  He's also got a really high motor, high character, great work ethic.

The knock with Jackson is obviously team fit, but as far as potential goes I think he has close to as much as anybody in the draft.  He has nearly undeniable all-star potential.  His strength, quickness, ability to score at the basket or from three, ability to pass and handle the ball, aggressiveness on defence.  He's an incredibly talented player who is likely to be overlooked as a result of his size - something that I think a lot of teams will live to regret later down the track.  If we didn't have Thomas I would be all over this guy, but we do have Thomas and that makes it tough to select him.  Still, when draft day comes along Danny tends to go for talent and character regardless of position/fit.  Jackson oozes both talent AND character. 

I rarely am on board with the idea of drafting guys we don't have a need/fit for, but I will make an exception when they are guys like Jackson and Brown.  Those guys have the character and talent to contribute to any team, and both have All-Star potential. 

If we get really unlucky and fall to #5, and Ingram/Simmons/Hield/Brown are already off the board, then I think I'd take Jackson or Skal over Bender.  I don't know maybe I'm missing something, but Bender just doesn't impress me all that much.

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #171 on: April 24, 2016, 09:58:02 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Playing the inside game is about heart , 6 10 is plenty big if you play like Cowans or Dramond Green .

Draymond Green has a 3" longer wingspan then Sabonis, is significantly stronger and has an outside shot.  Those three characteristics (strength, length, jumper) are critical to Green being as good as he is.

Yes but Draymond Green is 6-6 while Sabonis is 6-10-6'11

And you don't know who is stronger at the same age.  Sabonis moves ppl . you got to be strong and embrace contact to do that

And you are incorrect that Sabonis can't shoot.  Players that shoot 75 percent at the ft line and 35 percent at the 3 pt line can shoot.  Sabonis didn't flash the jump shot enough bc gonzaga needed him around the post most of the time

Look Sabonis will have limitations as a rim protector due to below avg wingspan. But he is no KO.   His post moves are much more advanced at the same age. KO dominated at the post when he was a senior.   Sabonis at 19.    Sabonis is also a much better rebounder. Muchh better.

He is the best rebounder from this draft at his age. Long wingspan can give you an edge, but without fire, it's near useless. Sabonis plays with tremendous passion
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 10:04:04 AM by triboy16f »

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #172 on: April 24, 2016, 10:02:15 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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This whole thread reeks of more triboy overhype of a young, unproven player. (See Mickey, Jordan)

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #173 on: April 24, 2016, 10:06:43 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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This whole thread reeks of more triboy overhype of a young, unproven player. (See Mickey, Jordan)

Yes a guy who got a 4 year deal but is a 1st year rookie

In your books an early 2nd round pick should be contributing right away/dominating the competition

Get a clue and be patient

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #174 on: April 24, 2016, 10:13:30 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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This whole thread reeks of more triboy overhype of a young, unproven player. (See Mickey, Jordan)

Yes a guy who got a 4 year deal but is a 1st year rookie

In your books an early 2nd round pick should be contributing right away/dominating the competition

Get a clue and be patient
Yeah, I am pretty sure the majority of this board knows exactly who needs to get a clue when it comes to young players and what to expect out of them, and its not me.

Let's remember, it was you saying how Mickey would be a factor right away and hyping his arrival into the league. It was only after it was painfully obvious that he wasn't at the level you thought and wasn't getting playing time that you changed your tune and started saying people had to have patience with him.

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #175 on: April 24, 2016, 10:15:23 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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This whole thread reeks of more triboy overhype of a young, unproven player. (See Mickey, Jordan)

Yes a guy who got a 4 year deal but is a 1st year rookie

In your books an early 2nd round pick should be contributing right away/dominating the competition

Get a clue and be patient
Yeah, I am pretty sure the majority of this board knows exactly who needs to get a clue when it comes to young players and what to expect out of them, and its not me.

Yes it is you

How are you expecting an early 2nd round pick to contribute right away/impact right away?

But also Mickey got a 4 year deal which is rare for a 2nd pick to receive

So yes, get a clue and be patient

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #176 on: April 24, 2016, 10:18:13 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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As I said in my edit. It was you claiming Mickey would be something special right away and you who changed his tune when Mickey didn't do the things you expected and didn't get playing time.

Me? Check my posts. Go ahead, check into what I have said on him. I said all along he was a long term project and wouldn't sniff the court this year.

I KNOW is if I go into your posting history, the same will not be able to be said.

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #177 on: April 24, 2016, 10:21:05 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Not receiving playing time has to do more with CBS preferring not to play rookies/young players

Rozier is getting min bc AB is down. That's it

Mickey outplayed  Trey lyles when he got mins this season. Yet lyles  starts for Utah.  Mickey also outplayed lyles when they met during college ball play.   

Digest on this for a sec

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #178 on: April 24, 2016, 10:23:00 AM »

Offline Greenback

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Better to pick Sabonis with the 3rd pick or he will be gone.  Then take Skal with the Dallas pick.
Everyone wants truth on his side, not everyone wants to be on the side of truth.

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #179 on: April 24, 2016, 10:30:15 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I look at Bender and I see the perfect example of a "jack of all trades, but master of none" guy.  He has few major flaws in his game - doesn't seem to be a lot that he does really poorly.  However the also doesn't seem to be ANYTHING that he does extremely well either.

I see a dud who international stats are indicative that he is a tall guy who can run.   He has not even came close to dominating overseas.


http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Dragan-Bender/Summary/41582

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

Don't these worry you?

At least the Zinger, has better stats

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/kristaps-porzingis-1.html

Not sure where you are going with this.  I pretty much just said that I don't think Bender has star potential.  You seem to be agreeing with me?

Look don't get me wrong, he isn't just a 7 footer who can run.  if you watch footage of Bender you can see he definitely has talent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS-x4J1OZ8E

- He's got a pretty nice nice shooting stroke (and his length would make his shot tough to block)
- He looks to be a very good passer (some nice pinpoint outlet passes in those videos)
- He seems to get a decent amount of blocks (as a result of his quickness & length alone)
- He seems to show good motor/effort when fighting for offensive rebounds (doesn't give up easily)

But the thing that concern me from looking at the highlights are that:

1) Most of his baskets seem to be off either dunks or three point shots.  He doesn't seem to have much versatility to his game.  I don't see any signs of a turnaround jumper, post game, or an ability to finish tough shots around the basket.  Most of the shots he hits seem to be lightly contested and don't look like especially difficult shots.

2) Most of the inside baskets he's getting look like they are against guys who are 3-4 inches smaller then him, and not much stronger either.  I haven't seen much to suggest he's capable of finishing against longer or more physical guys.  I can't help but feel that guys like Lamarcus Aldridge and Demarcus Cousins (both 6'11" with elite skill and 7'5" wingspans) will eat him alive on both ends of the court

3) He doesn't seem even remotely capable of creating his own offence.  He doesn't look to have any go-to moves that he could use to exploit NBA defenders.  Even Amir Johnson looks much more skilled at scoring one-on-one then Bender does

4) He seems to miss a LOT of fairly easy shots around the basket.  I'll give him credit because he often seems to fight for the offensive rebound and get his own put-backs, but I'm still concerned with how often he seems to miss those first attempts.  If you struggle to finish lightly-contested shots 3 feet from the basket, then quality NBA players will really punish you for that.   

5) I feel that his ball handling ability is massively, massively overrated by people.  Some people say he handles the ball like a guard - I think that is laughable.  I would say his ball handling is good by power forward standards, mediocre by small forward standards, and terrible by guard standards.  His ball handling is not even remotely close to being in the same ballpark as Avery Bradley, who is considered by many to be one of the worse ball handling guards in the NBA.  I don't think I would even say he handles the ball as well as Kelly Olynyk.  Basically he is a 7 footer who can dribble the ball up court on a fast break without bouncing the ball off his foot - that's more or less the extent of it.

6) He can obviously pass the ball, but it's not like his passing game is crazy elite.  I look at Ben Simmons and I am in awe at some of the passes he makes - my jaw drops in disbelieve that a 6'10" / 240 pound guy can make passes like that.  Bender isn't that type of passer.  He's just a big man who has a feel for the game, and who makes some nice accurate passes.  I don't see him being any better a passer then Olynyk or Sully. 

This is the thing with Bender.  I look at all of these areas, and I can obviously see the talent and the skill there - but none of the talents or skills are things that jump out at me.  None of them seem like the type of skills that would allow him to dominate the NBA game. 

I look at all the other top prospects - Simmons, Ingram, Brown, Hield, Dunn, Murray, Ellenson, Jackson, Labissiere - in every one of those guys I see one or two things that make me think "I could see how this guy could become an All-Star player if the cards fall the right way".  I just don't see anything in Bender's game that makes me think that.  Nothing about him suggests to me that he could be a special player. 

People say "but he's only 18!" and I do take that into account.  But people were clinging to that exact same argument with guys like James Young and Noah Vonleh.  Fact of the matter is that youth alone does not indicate potential - youth combined with great talent indicates potential.  I could see Bender very easily becoming this year's Noah Vonleh - uber young big man with seemingly endless potential that just never gets anywhere far.

Then you look at guys like Simmons (19 years old), Ingram (18 years old), Brown (19 years old) and Murray (19 years old) - these guys are all practically the same age as Bender, and to me they all seem to have more talent right now

Hell even Ellenson (19 years old) looks like he has more all-star potential to me then Bender does.

Just don't see what all the Bender fuss is about.