2023 Post Draft Rosters

[Who]

I liked the draft for the Jazz. Hendricks, George & Sensebaugh. 3 solid prospects. Hendricks & Kessler is a great defensive duo for the future. Intrigued to see how their team operates.

Sexton / Dunn
Clarkson / George
Hendricks / Ogbaji
Markannen / Sensebaugh
Kessler / Olynyk

Fun, and weird.

Okay, Utah are getting fun now. I did not see it earlier but they just added John Collins for Rudy Gay. That is a funky roster (in a good way!).

[gouki88]

Celtics..adding Porzingis makes them favorites to win it all

Maybe in Vegas.

I still think Denver and Miami are better. After watching the Celtics over the last 5 years, I continue to see that our team on paper doesn't yield a guaranteed championship.

The Celtics need better coaching, team cohesion, and mental toughness. They need Tatum to take over like Butler and Jokic did.

Tatum thoroughly outplayed Butler. It is so strange to see how persistent this narrative is

[green_bballers13]

Celtics..adding Porzingis makes them favorites to win it all

Maybe in Vegas.

I still think Denver and Miami are better. After watching the Celtics over the last 5 years, I continue to see that our team on paper doesn't yield a guaranteed championship.

The Celtics need better coaching, team cohesion, and mental toughness. They need Tatum to take over like Butler and Jokic did.

Tatum thoroughly outplayed Butler. It is so strange to see how persistent this narrative is

Tatum averaged 25,10, 5 with 1 steal and shot  23% from 3. He scored 14 points in Game 7.

Butler averaged 25,8,6 with 2.6 steals. He shot 35% from 3 and scored 28 points in Game 7.

I guess your argument is that Tatum played far superior defense to Butler?

[gouki88]

Celtics..adding Porzingis makes them favorites to win it all

Maybe in Vegas.

I still think Denver and Miami are better. After watching the Celtics over the last 5 years, I continue to see that our team on paper doesn't yield a guaranteed championship.

The Celtics need better coaching, team cohesion, and mental toughness. They need Tatum to take over like Butler and Jokic did.

Tatum thoroughly outplayed Butler. It is so strange to see how persistent this narrative is

Tatum averaged 25,10, 5 with 1 steal and shot  23% from 3. He scored 14 points in Game 7.

Butler averaged 25,8,6 with 2.6 steals. He shot 35% from 3 and scored 28 points in Game 7.

I guess your argument is that Tatum played far superior defense to Butler?

Beyond G1, Butler was pretty average. 40% from the field, 25% from deep. He was alright. His inconsistency gets papered over when looking at averages, game-to-game he is a wildly different player with no reason to explain it.

Tatum, prior to getting hurt, had been averaging 27/10/6. His perimeter shooting was off, but his rebounding, scoring and defence was superior to my mind. Butler got more steals, but I think Tatum had a much bigger impact (especially in forcing Butler to miss shots).

Butler constantly gets mythologised when he is in reality one of the most inconsistent playoff performers around. Wonder if him wilting will finally get people to stop comparing him to legends…

[Celtics4ever]

I still think Denver and Miami are better.

MIA was super hot in terms of shooting against us.   They shot way better than they normally do in that series.   They're not better, they were hot.    Did they outwork us, yes, but we have more more talent across the board.  This wore off in the finals and they came crashing back to earth.

Miami was a bad 3-point shooting team in the regular season. The Heat ranked 27th in 3-point percentage across the first 82 games they played,

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/celtics-vs-heat-score-takeaways-miamis-shooting-is-for-real-boston-struggles-late-in-east-finals-opener/live/

Through three games, the Celtics have shot just 29.2% from three-point range, compared to 47.8% for the Heat.

https://www.sportico.com/leagues/basketball/2023/boston-celtics-miami-heat-nba-playoffs-three-point-shooting-percentage-1234723712/

They out shot us by 13% from the three.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2023-nba-eastern-conference-finals-heat-vs-celtics.html

[green_bballers13]

Celtics..adding Porzingis makes them favorites to win it all

Maybe in Vegas.

I still think Denver and Miami are better. After watching the Celtics over the last 5 years, I continue to see that our team on paper doesn't yield a guaranteed championship.

The Celtics need better coaching, team cohesion, and mental toughness. They need Tatum to take over like Butler and Jokic did.

Tatum thoroughly outplayed Butler. It is so strange to see how persistent this narrative is

Tatum averaged 25,10, 5 with 1 steal and shot  23% from 3. He scored 14 points in Game 7.

Butler averaged 25,8,6 with 2.6 steals. He shot 35% from 3 and scored 28 points in Game 7.

I guess your argument is that Tatum played far superior defense to Butler?

Beyond G1, Butler was pretty average. 40% from the field, 25% from deep. He was alright. His inconsistency gets papered over when looking at averages, game-to-game he is a wildly different player with no reason to explain it.

Tatum, prior to getting hurt, had been averaging 27/10/6. His perimeter shooting was off, but his rebounding, scoring and defence was superior to my mind. Butler got more steals, but I think Tatum had a much bigger impact (especially in forcing Butler to miss shots).

Butler constantly gets mythologised when he is in reality one of the most inconsistent playoff performers around. Wonder if him wilting will finally get people to stop comparing him to legends…

I think people see that Tatum is a more advanced offensive player. He's a better ballhandler and shooter. That is why it's hard to see Butler step his game up when it matters. He also hasn't won a ring, so I'm not sure about the mythology. He's not an all time great. Butler is a hard worker that delivers a lot of intangibles. I think we expect more from Tatum (offensively) than Butler, so its disappointing when he doesn't deliver two years in a row (check out his two major clunkers in the NBA finals vs the Warriors).

[Who]

ECF Series Stats

Jimmy = 24.7ppg on 51.9% TS%
Tatum = 25.3ppg on 58.8% TS%

Jimmy = 7.6rpg 6.1apg
Tatum = 10.3rpg 5.4apg

Jimmy = 18stl 3blk only 15 turnovers
Tatum = 7stl 5blk but 26 turnovers


Huge difference in scoring efficiency and rebounding for Tatum. Small gains in assists for Jimmy. Large gains in steals and (minimizing) turnovers for Jimmy.

The difference in turnovers isn't enough to make up the difference in shooting efficiency for overall scoring efficiency. So points per possession as [FGA + (0.5 by FTA) + TOV] has Tatum at 0.986 points per possession and Jimmy at 0.935 points per possesion. Still a large advantage in Tatum's favour.


I didn't think Jimmy outplayed Tatum in the ECF. It (the result) was more about the respective quality in coaching of both teams and MIA's supporting cast shooting lights out as pointed out by Celtics4ever.

[Kernewek]

Even saying Miami shot the lights out is like saying Manute Bol was 'a little bit taller than average'.  Odds are none of us will ever see a team shoot that well from deep in a single playoff series again.

[keevsnick]

ECF Series Stats

Jimmy = 24.7ppg on 51.9% TS%
Tatum = 25.3ppg on 58.8% TS%

Jimmy = 7.6rpg 6.1apg
Tatum = 10.3rpg 5.4apg

Jimmy = 18stl 3blk only 15 turnovers
Tatum = 7stl 5blk but 26 turnovers


Huge difference in scoring efficiency and rebounding for Tatum. Small gains in assists for Jimmy. Large gains in steals and (minimizing) turnovers for Jimmy.

The difference in turnovers isn't enough to make up the difference in shooting efficiency for overall scoring efficiency. So points per possession as [FGA + (0.5 by FTA) + TOV] has Tatum at 0.986 points per possession and Jimmy at 0.935 points per possesion. Still a large advantage in Tatum's favour.


I didn't think Jimmy outplayed Tatum in the ECF. It (the result) was more about the respective quality in coaching of both teams and MIA's supporting cast shooting lights out as pointed out by Celtics4ever.

Ya the "Jimmy outplayed Tatum" narrative was based off like the first two games when that was largely true, but the series overall leans Tatum. C's didn't lose because of Tatum, they lost because the Heat's role players went nuclear from three (looking at you Caleb Martin).

[DrJasper]

A team I do not like the look of is Detroit.

G: Jaden Ivey
G: Ausar Thompson
F: Cade Cunningham
F: Isaiah Stewart
C: Jalen Duren

I really do not like that perimeter trio. Not a fan of Ivey or the Thompson twin. Low skill low IQ players. At least Ivey is and I expect the Thompson twin is as well. Both struggle with decision making, outside shooting, turnovers, scoring efficiency. I expect DET's backcourt is going to be an eye-sore next season.

Cade Cunningham is a good player but is he a great player? Is he a low level star? Or just a skilled role player? At least he has some talent. I am not sure about the other two.

The big man duo of Stewart and Duren; I do not like. Duren is a good long term fixture at starting center and Stewart is a solid bench big but he is out of his depth as a starting PF. He is a liability.

This is going to be a fairly awful team again next season despite having filled out most of their starting five with guys who are being depended on as their future / as long term fixtures. I do not like the upside of the perimeter guys or Stewart. I do not think this team is going anywhere particularly good anytime in the near future.

I feel these last two drafts, the top 5 picks, were both wasted picks in J Ivey and the Thompson twin.

Interesting, I feel totally different about them. I think Cade has superstar potential. Ivey could be a player, don't know for sure, but Duren and Ausar I'm super high on. Definitely need to work on the rest of the roster, wiseman seems like a bust..

[Who]

It is going to be interesting to see where Washington ends up after all their moves. Some things seem settled.

G - Tyus Jones
G - Jordan Poole
F - Bilal Coulibaly, Corey Kispert
F - Deni Avdija
C - Daniel Gafford

I presume they are going to let Kuzma go. He is not worth investing in for a rebuilding team. Word is Gallinari and Monte Morris are on their way out as well. Along with Delon Wright.

I'm a bit sad Monte Morris is leaving. I liked the idea of 48 minutes of Tyus Jones and Monte Morris. Two such similar players. Steady efficient low mistake pass first PGs.

Jordan Poole should have a lot of fun on this team. Pass first PG and low usage forwards. He'll be able to shoot the ball as many times as he wants. Looks a solid bet to score 25-30ppg next season.

They are going to be bad but they could be kinda pesky to play against. Dangerous enough backcourt especially on Poole's hot shooting nights. Good speed at forward albeit low on talent. Just a little awkward.

[gouki88]

A team I do not like the look of is Detroit.

G: Jaden Ivey
G: Ausar Thompson
F: Cade Cunningham
F: Isaiah Stewart
C: Jalen Duren

I really do not like that perimeter trio. Not a fan of Ivey or the Thompson twin. Low skill low IQ players. At least Ivey is and I expect the Thompson twin is as well. Both struggle with decision making, outside shooting, turnovers, scoring efficiency. I expect DET's backcourt is going to be an eye-sore next season.

Cade Cunningham is a good player but is he a great player? Is he a low level star? Or just a skilled role player? At least he has some talent. I am not sure about the other two.

The big man duo of Stewart and Duren; I do not like. Duren is a good long term fixture at starting center and Stewart is a solid bench big but he is out of his depth as a starting PF. He is a liability.

This is going to be a fairly awful team again next season despite having filled out most of their starting five with guys who are being depended on as their future / as long term fixtures. I do not like the upside of the perimeter guys or Stewart. I do not think this team is going anywhere particularly good anytime in the near future.

I feel these last two drafts, the top 5 picks, were both wasted picks in J Ivey and the Thompson twin.

Interesting, I feel totally different about them. I think Cade has superstar potential. Ivey could be a player, don't know for sure, but Duren and Ausar I'm super high on. Definitely need to work on the rest of the roster, wiseman seems like a bust..

I am super high on Duren, and pretty warm on Cunningham and Ivey. Not a fan of the Thompson twins (the band was fun), as I have no idea how to evaluate the competition they were beating up on. I think Thompson and Cunningham are a bit duplicative, and I thought Ivey was already a bit duplicative. I would have tried to trade down for a Taylor Hendricks / Jarace Walker type long-term 4 next to Duren. Beef up the defence.

[Roy H.]

Dallas is an interesting team.

In: G. Williams, R. Holmes, Seth Curry, Exum, Lively, Olivier-Maxence Prosper
Out:  Bertrans, Bullock, Wood (presumably)

[gouki88]

Dallas is an interesting team.

In: G. Williams, R. Holmes, Seth Curry, Exum, Lively, Olivier-Maxence Prosper
Out:  Bertrans, Bullock, Wood (presumably)

So much hinges on how Kidd can get Kyrie & Luka to work. If they focus on putting solid defenders in-between them (Green, G Williams, Holmes are all alright, but not too high level) then it could be quite intriguing. Thybulle is an in too, right?

[Who]

Dallas

G: K Irving, Seth Curry, D Exum
G: Tim Hardaway, Josh Green, J Hardy
F: L Doncic, OM Prosper
F: G Williams, M Kleber
C: R Holmes, D Lively, J McGee

It still looks like one of the weaker defensive teams in the league. Bottom 10 certainly. Possibly bottom 5.

I don't like Tim Hardaway Jr as the 5th starter. They need more footspeed and defense on the perimeter. I am not wild about Grant Williams and Luka together. Not enough footspeed. Kyrie is locked in and limited ability to upgrade R Holmes so the SG position looks the best bet for a change.

Not sure Thybulle is the right guy. He has the athleticism and the defense but his offensive skill-set is a bad fit with Luka (and Kyrie).