Author Topic: Bruins sign prospect with racist past  (Read 19710 times)

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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2022, 10:06:21 AM »

Online Roy H.

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As an aside - am I completely losing it, since when are people 14 years old in middle school? If I remember correctly you're in high school by that age?

Being 14 in 8th grade isn’t unusual, especially if it’s the tail end.  That would make him 18 as a senior.

Yeah you're probably right - I suppose I just have 14-18 locked into my memories as my 'high school years', hence the disconnect.

I'm late August and the cutoff in my town was Sept 1st.  Rather than being young for my class, my parents waited a year. to start me in school.  So, down the road, I started 8th grade the week after turning 14. Started high school at 15.   Graduated high school when I was 18.5. 

One good benefit was getting a drivers license sophomore year of high school and starting junior year of college at 21.

I think waiting the year makes sense for a lot of kids, particularly boys.  It gives them an extra year to mature in early elementary school, and it inevitably helps in things like athletics.  In theory, it also allows for a more mature brain when making decisions in high school / college, although that one year probably doesn't influence teenagers to make good choices, haha.


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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2022, 11:26:26 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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I don't believe Gary Bettman for a second, that this kid was not eligible to play. This has PR speak written all over it. Wasn't this kid drafted into the NHL, but cut after this story came out. Again, if he was not eligible, then how was he allowed into the draft? Also, I don't ever recall hearing about this kid's ineligibility for what he did, because that certainly would have been a big story prior to the Bruins signing him.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2022, 11:29:58 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Like I mentioned before, what this kid did was despicable. However, how do we know about this story? Are court records not sealed for juveniles? And what sick adult would report this story, and give a 14 year old kid the death sentence of being labeled a racist for the rest of his life? Am I the only person bothered by this?

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2022, 11:38:36 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Now Bruins apparently apologizing for taking the dude .

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2022, 12:00:20 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Like I mentioned before, what this kid did was despicable. However, how do we know about this story? Are court records not sealed for juveniles? And what sick adult would report this story, and give a 14 year old kid the death sentence of being labeled a racist for the rest of his life? Am I the only person bothered by this?

I don't necessarily think that the adult was sick for reporting it.  I know that the victim's parents have been pretty responsive to certain members of the media about how this has had a profound negative effect on not only their son, but themselves as well.  If they reported it because they think that other people deserve to know what happened, I find no fault there.

I think Miller should be treated fairly.  If he's reformed and has grown as an adult, then he deserves a second chance.  If he's the same person, only older, I wouldn't want him around my team.  I had assumed the Bruins had looked into that, but apparently they didn't.


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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2022, 03:50:38 PM »

Offline JSD

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Also Mitchell's not being barred from college - he was dropped by the UND hockey team, but according to a piece arguing that this current situation is unfair and that we're all just being too woke about it, he was allowed to stay in school, and found his way back into playing hockey (albeit unpaid):
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2022/11/04_Mitchell-Millers-NCAA-Career.php

I would be willing to bet that there are many places of higher learning who would take him as a student, just not necessarily a student-athlete. And he's obviously free to find another job outside of the NHL.

Which is why my position is that it's hard to shake the feeling that his punishment is little more than being 'down here with the rest of us'.

The vast majority of the rest of us being people who spent a lot of time, effort, and energy getting really good at things only to have somehow found jobs that do not involve these things. Most of us without tormenting our peers, even.

He's 20. He can do something else for a living and go play in an am league on weekends - just like everyone else.

Miller is one of the top thousand in the world at his craft, he’s beyond really good at something. From the sounds of it, you’re perfectly okay with him living a normal life, you just don’t want him to do something he’s exceptional doing. What type of logic is this? Denying someone their top money making skill because they were a really mean person in middle school? That’s just too much.

This situation is calling for a restorative justice type meeting for all parties involved. The victims -I say victims because parents feel their children's pain tenfold- and Miller need to come together for a genuine heart to heart to see if they find some closure. Then everyone needs to move on as best they can

Funny to see you of all people arguing for entitlements - the NHL isn’t required to find a place for anyone in the league for any reason.

I am fine with him living a normal life because he should not being punished for something he did as a teenager for the rest of his life - which is also your position and Roy’s position. Not being able to hold one specific job is hardly a punishment.

Entitlements? There’s no greater example of a meritocracy than professional sports. Miller was signed by the Bruins because he worked his butt off to get to this point.

I will always remember this as the one and only time you argued for 'restorative justice', however disingenuously. That said, I do agree with you - the Bruins absolutely dropped the ball with this signing. We just disagree on the reasons why.

I don’t even understand what you mean here? I wasn’t being disingenuous, I was looking for a solution that might satisfy the adopted mother who seems hell bent on ruining Miller’s hockey career over something Miller did and paid for when he was 14 years old.

They want more, maybe a sincere sit down like what a restorative justice approach could offer? Maybe a nice check? Or maybe, just maybe, the currency is in the victimhood and attention they’re getting from this, so none of that other stuff is appealing.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 04:17:17 PM by JSD »
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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2022, 03:57:30 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 Im so done with this anything you did in the past makes you a piece of trash. Has the kid matured? If so i don't care what he said.

 Let's be adults and allow young people to make mistakes and move on.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2022, 04:47:05 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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Can you imagine being judged and punished for some bad thing you did as a 14 year old? What has this kid been doing lately?

Would love to see what kind of upbringing he had too. Usually kids at that age act out and are a mirror of their parents.

I saw a ton of bullying and abuse in the junior high school I went to. Even those who bullied me or others on occasion are not judged by me years later. It is who they become and how they act later on in life that I might make a lasting judgement.

The wokeness of what a young kid did years later seems crazy to me. Condemned for life.

And no, I am not saying actions don’t lead to judgment but I am saying give people another chance. This world and country are just a mirror of everything else that is going on.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2022, 05:00:11 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Like I mentioned before, what this kid did was despicable. However, how do we know about this story? Are court records not sealed for juveniles? And what sick adult would report this story, and give a 14 year old kid the death sentence of being labeled a racist for the rest of his life? Am I the only person bothered by this?

I don't necessarily think that the adult was sick for reporting it.  I know that the victim's parents have been pretty responsive to certain members of the media about how this has had a profound negative effect on not only their son, but themselves as well.  If they reported it because they think that other people deserve to know what happened, I find no fault there.

I think Miller should be treated fairly.  If he's reformed and has grown as an adult, then he deserves a second chance.  If he's the same person, only older, I wouldn't want him around my team.  I had assumed the Bruins had looked into that, but apparently they didn't.

Pretty sure I saw reports that they indeed had looked into this, etc. Now they cleaning their hands on the matter it seems.

I don't know, I just find it hypocritical about how much push we're seeing about reforming people and criminals, giving 2nd chances and what not, but we draw the line on kids that did despicable stuff when younger, regardless of what has happened since then.

All that said, I'm also not going to put my hand on the fire for this malcontent regardless of how young he was when he made the mistakes. I do think he deserves a chance, if we assume he's "reformed and did the appropriate apologies and actions towards his victim/s"... but just don't care enough to go to bat for him.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2022, 06:09:24 PM »

Offline Kernewek

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Also Mitchell's not being barred from college - he was dropped by the UND hockey team, but according to a piece arguing that this current situation is unfair and that we're all just being too woke about it, he was allowed to stay in school, and found his way back into playing hockey (albeit unpaid):
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2022/11/04_Mitchell-Millers-NCAA-Career.php

I would be willing to bet that there are many places of higher learning who would take him as a student, just not necessarily a student-athlete. And he's obviously free to find another job outside of the NHL.

Which is why my position is that it's hard to shake the feeling that his punishment is little more than being 'down here with the rest of us'.

The vast majority of the rest of us being people who spent a lot of time, effort, and energy getting really good at things only to have somehow found jobs that do not involve these things. Most of us without tormenting our peers, even.

He's 20. He can do something else for a living and go play in an am league on weekends - just like everyone else.

Miller is one of the top thousand in the world at his craft, he’s beyond really good at something. From the sounds of it, you’re perfectly okay with him living a normal life, you just don’t want him to do something he’s exceptional doing. What type of logic is this? Denying someone their top money making skill because they were a really mean person in middle school? That’s just too much.

This situation is calling for a restorative justice type meeting for all parties involved. The victims -I say victims because parents feel their children's pain tenfold- and Miller need to come together for a genuine heart to heart to see if they find some closure. Then everyone needs to move on as best they can

Funny to see you of all people arguing for entitlements - the NHL isn’t required to find a place for anyone in the league for any reason.

I am fine with him living a normal life because he should not being punished for something he did as a teenager for the rest of his life - which is also your position and Roy’s position. Not being able to hold one specific job is hardly a punishment.

Entitlements? There’s no greater example of a meritocracy than professional sports. Miller was signed by the Bruins because he worked his butt off to get to this point.

I will always remember this as the one and only time you argued for 'restorative justice', however disingenuously. That said, I do agree with you - the Bruins absolutely dropped the ball with this signing. We just disagree on the reasons why.

I don’t even understand what you mean here? I wasn’t being disingenuous, I was looking for a solution that might satisfy the adopted mother who seems hell bent on ruining Miller’s hockey career over something Miller did and paid for when he was 14 years old.

They want more, maybe a sincere sit down like what a restorative justice approach could offer? Maybe a nice check? Or maybe, just maybe, the currency is in the victimhood and attention they’re getting from this, so none of that other stuff is appealing.


So what I mean by disingenuous is - if Miller had shown demonstrable remorsefulness and/or contrition for his actions, I’d be more amenable to a second chance in the NHL. Maybe he has changed in his heart of hearts, maybe he hasn’t, but no one outside of Miller’s agent and his mom thinks this is the case.

I think generally if his agent is going to throw the phrase ‘restorative justice’ at the wall to try and salvage his paycheque, this aforementioned demonstrable contrition and remorse from his client would have gone a long way - and everyone seems to agree that this has been lacking, because all else being equal the NHL wants him somewhere around the league.

If he’d even made the barest attempt at something the Bruins could argue as a sincere overture, he’s probably moving on with his pro career.

There’s also the other bad part, which is that if Miller was ‘generational talent’ and less ‘rotation level guy’ the Bruins *and* the league would absolutely get him on the ice.

Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2022, 06:22:03 PM »

Offline JSD

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Did you read the court disposition? He was to have no further contact with the victim or their family. Miller stated this is why he has not reached out to the victim to further apologize.
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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2022, 06:35:46 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If Miller was a black gang banger that beat someone bad during a robbery attempt at 15, pled down, did a short stint in juvy, at 21 should he be given a chance to become a NHL or NBA player if there is little to no public evidence of contrition, maturation, or change of heart/attitude?

Do you think the Celtics should give that kid a chance if he was a baller?

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2022, 06:36:25 PM »

Offline Kernewek

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I did read that in the interview you posted a few pages ago, the same one where Miller said the following:
Quote
“This isn’t about saving my career. Obviously, I want to play hockey. It’s my dream, but I want to let everyone know that I made a mistake and how sincere and sorry I am that I affected their family and their lives. I got dropped by Arizona and North Dakota, but it’s not about saving my career. It’s letting people know what I did was wrong. Again, I take all ownership of what I did and I’m not going to defend myself on all of that stuff.

And

Quote
“At this point, I think the debt-to-society part is like 10 times more important than my hockey career,” he said. “Hockey would be a reward if I could ever have a second chance to have that back in my life, but I want to give back to the community.

Here’s the thing - even in the absence of talking to the person he bullied directly, there are many things that Miller could have done to give back to the community in the year between this interview (where, as you say, he wasn’t allowed to talk to the kid he bullied) and getting signed by the Bruins.

So. What did he do? Aside from get in touch with the kid he bullied to apologise because the Bruins told him he had to, that is? [ed. This is a rhetorical question, because there are some team activities listed in the interview that Miller participated in, but if you’re the guy with the baggage, you have to go above and beyond the rest of your team].

That is why I have some doubts.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 06:42:17 PM by Kernewek »
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2022, 06:39:41 PM »

Offline mobilija

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Besides apologizing, what punishments were served? Restitution? Time in juvenile detention?

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2022, 06:44:26 PM »

Online Roy H.

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If Miller was a black gang banger that beat someone bad during a robbery attempt at 15, pled down, did a short stint in juvy, at 21 should he be given a chance to become a NHL or NBA player if there is little to no public evidence of contrition, maturation, or change of heart/attitude?

Do you think the Celtics should give that kid a chance if he was a baller?

It’s a little different, because robbery is a felony, but if the kid stayed out of trouble for six years, why not?

Actions speak louder than words.  The best way to see if somebody has changed is to see if they’ve ceased their bad behavior.  It’s not like the Celtics haven’t had guys with rough pasts before. 


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