CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: rollie mass on November 04, 2017, 08:55:20 AM
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Tatums second three last night was a thing of beauty and just re enforced how good he will be,he is tough in transition,gets to the basket,has mid range pull up and post game,plays very good defense ,shoots foul shots a 80%,rebounds -and is only 19 may still grow and starts for a contender-
No real flaws in his game-Doesn't that sound like rookie of year
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Tatum?
It's not close. Simmons is the runaway leader at this point.
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I'm all for a rollie thread, but you must have missed this one from yesterday.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94183.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94183.0)
Wait, in reading your post (and as chilidawg mentioned), I see that you are referring to Tatum, not Brown.
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Rookie of the Year race this time around might be historical. I’d have to go back and check out the 2003-2004 season - Lebron the clear winner, but good seasons from Bosh, Wade, Melo and probably others. This year, you have a number of rookies who are already solid impactful rotation players.
This is a good rundown:
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-rookie-power-rankings-simmons-the-real-deal-lonzos-strange-start-continues/
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Sorry about mix up but -when Tatum buried that 3 point shot it crystalised the potential of Tatum in terms of being a complete player,-no hesitation ,the arc and follow through -i just said nice really nice.
This is a kid starting against Westbrook,Carmello,and George his first big away game against OKC at only 19-
.Even though he missed those bunnies, the movement and ease he got to the rim made the points secondary.Simmons has the press and stats and once that's starts going its hard to stop.Jayson shouldn't get the touches that Simmons gets because the Celts are that good-but really can you award a player that can't hit from outside or has no pull up jumper and can't shoot foul shots ROY and he really isn't a rookie.
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Simmons is averaging more Pts, Rebs and Ast but I would take Tatum. Simmons has a horrible FG%, FT% and he has a 0% from 3 pt because he hasn't shot one yet. Simmons will win ROY but Tatum is a more polished player.
Tatum has a stunning...50/80/50. 50% FG, 80 FT and 50 3pt. FIFTY % from 3 is crazy because it's not like he's only playing 15 minutes. He's playing over 30 minutes a game. This tells me he takes good shots and is patient.
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Simmons is averaging more Pts, Rebs and Ast but I would take Tatum. Simmons has a horrible FG%, FT% and he has a 0% from 3 pt because he hasn't shot one yet. Simmons will win ROY but Tatum is a more polished player.
Tatum has a stunning...50/80/50. 50% FG, 80 FT and 50 3pt. FIFTY % from 3 is crazy because it's not like he's only playing 15 minutes. He's playing over 30 minutes a game. This tells me he takes good shots and is patient.
Simmons is 51.6 FG% which is rather good. He just had his 2nd triple double in 9 games. He is at 18.0 pts, 9.8 reb, 8.2 ast, 0.7 blk and 1.6 stl.
Tatum is playing well but not that well. As for his 3pt%, it is early in the season. There are 15 players at 50% or better. Don't expect any of them to remain that high. Strangely Pau Gasol topped the league at 53.8% last season with Korver 2nd at 45.1%.
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I mean I am also a homer, but I think the rookies are: 1.) Simmons, 2.) Markkannen, 3.) Tatum, 4.) Kuzma, 5.) Dillon Brooks, 6.) Fox, 7.) Mike James
Tatum and Kuzma are neck and neck, but Tatum's efficiency is more valuable in my opinion.
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Simmons is averaging more Pts, Rebs and Ast but I would take Tatum. Simmons has a horrible FG%, FT% and he has a 0% from 3 pt because he hasn't shot one yet. Simmons will win ROY but Tatum is a more polished player.
Tatum has a stunning...50/80/50. 50% FG, 80 FT and 50 3pt. FIFTY % from 3 is crazy because it's not like he's only playing 15 minutes. He's playing over 30 minutes a game. This tells me he takes good shots and is patient.
Simmons is 51.6 FG% which is rather good. He just had his 2nd triple double in 9 games. He is at 18.0 pts, 9.8 reb, 8.2 ast, 0.7 blk and 1.6 stl.
Tatum is playing well but not that well. As for his 3pt%, it is early in the season. There are 15 players at 50% or better. Don't expect any of them to remain that high. Strangely Pau Gasol topped the league at 53.8% last season with Korver 2nd at 45.1%.
Simmons has undoubtedly been the top rookie so far, and does appear to have the highest ceiling.
Tatum has been really good too, and while I suspect his unrealistically high shooting numbers are just a hot streak, he plays next to two All-Stars, giving him many more open shots. Tatum clearly is a good shooter, so I suspect he will sustain very high shooting percentages (probably not his current level) at least until he hits the 'rookie wall'.
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I take Tatum over Simmons, too. Right now Simmons is putting up better stats and is probably the overall better player by a hair, but that's mainly because he's both A) over 1.5 years older and B) in a much differing context that allows him a much higher usage.
Once Tatum grows a bit more into his body, his skills bode well for him moving forward. His much, much better shot and ability to create for himself from all levels will push him to be the more valuable player long-term.
In today's NBA, Tatum's skillset is much more valuable longer-term than Simmons' skillset where he can barely hit a free throw.
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Simmons has the advantages of age and having the ball in his hands more often. That said, I doubt Tatum could do as much as Simmons in Philly away from the Stevens system. I think Simmons will get the award this season but Tatum will become more awesome than he is now over time and be the player the Celtics need him to be to contend. He is very close already.
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The OP is extremely redundant and has previously started a version of this thread. We can praise Tatum without putting Simmons down. Both players will be awesome.
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Moiso
if you read my posts under this subject they were both all about Tatum his three point shot and getting to hoop but missing two bunnies VERY CURRENT-You can praise Simmons all you want but that doesn't cut it when the guy can't shoot at at all from outside'.Philly is one of Bostons oldest rivals-REMEMBER THAT
"Extremely redundant" what i posted happened the night before-seems you are extremely critical-must be one of house 20 acolytes .
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I mean I am also a homer, but I think the rookies are: 1.) Simmons, 2.) Markkannen, 3.) Tatum, 4.) Kuzma, 5.) Dillon Brooks, 6.) Fox, 7.) Mike James
Tatum and Kuzma are neck and neck, but Tatum's efficiency is more valuable in my opinion.
say what now?
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I'm surprised how good Simmons is without a jump shot. That has to be someone encouraging that he's doing so much without that skillset yet.
My personal opinion is a jump shot can be learned with work and time.
I'm also surprised how good Tatum is as well. I expected a player who was only a good ISO player out of the gate. He's been solid on the glass, on defense and moving the ball.
Both these guys are going to have really good to great careers maybe even special? or am I over doing it now :D
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I prefer Tatum for this Celtics team... His game and demeanour are perfect for a winning Championship team. He is clutch at the line, highly competetive on Defense and impacts winning without having to have the ball.. For a young kid to play at that level is amazing.. This dude has special dripping off of him.
Simmons will always be a fun player to watch.. His greatness will remind us of Vince Carter, Harden, Tmac.. Maybe even Allen Iverson to an extent.. But never a Bird, or a Magic or a Pierce or a Tim Duncan.. He's the video game that you put away when you are tired of having fun and want to accomplish something great.
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I guess the question is:
Would you trade Tatum for Simmons straight up if you were Danny Ainge?
I'm keeping Tatum thank you very much.
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I guess the question is:
Would you trade Tatum for Simmons straight up if you were Danny Ainge?
I'm keeping Tatum thank you very much.
I agree. I keep Tatum also. I think Tatum would have a better plus minus on either team than Simmons would. I like Simmons and he is fun to watch but I think Tatums a better option for winning at a high level against the better teams.
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I guess the question is:
Would you trade Tatum for Simmons straight up if you were Danny Ainge?
I'm keeping Tatum thank you very much.
I agree. I keep Tatum also. I think Tatum would have a better plus minus on either team than Simmons would. I like Simmons and he is fun to watch but I think Tatums a better option for winning at a high level against the better teams.
r
And at least at this stage he is the more complete player.
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I guess the question is:
Would you trade Tatum for Simmons straight up if you were Danny Ainge?
I'm keeping Tatum thank you very much.
I agree. I keep Tatum also. I think Tatum would have a better plus minus on either team than Simmons would. I like Simmons and he is fun to watch but I think Tatums a better option for winning at a high level against the better teams.
r
And at least at this stage he is the more complete player.
How so? Tatum couldn't run the Sixers offense like Simmons has. Simmons on the other hand could play PF for us albeit it wouldn't be as clean of a fit.
I'd choose Simmons to start a team from scratch, For our team, it would be a closer call but I'd make the trade.
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Tatum passing has really surprised me as of late
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I guess the question is:
Would you trade Tatum for Simmons straight up if you were Danny Ainge?
I'm keeping Tatum thank you very much.
I agree. I keep Tatum also. I think Tatum would have a better plus minus on either team than Simmons would. I like Simmons and he is fun to watch but I think Tatums a better option for winning at a high level against the better teams.
r
And at least at this stage he is the more complete player.
How so? Tatum couldn't run the Sixers offense like Simmons has. Simmons on the other hand could play PF for us albeit it wouldn't be as clean of a fit.
I'd choose Simmons to start a team from scratch, For our team, it would be a closer call but I'd make the trade.
Make that trade and kill our high performing defense and kill our spacing....
I'm so glad it's Danny who makes those decision for us...
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Loved his bounce pass to Irving, cutting almost baseline-simple, so effective and so so unhurried-his breakaway dunk just enough to score and draw a foul or the deep three after a trap and bobble as clock ran down.
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Simmons is like westbrook, elite stat and fair record but isn't going anywhere, he is a "dead-end"
Tatum is like KD/Kawhi
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Nothing wrong with liking Tatum better or thinking he's got more potential in the long run. A little silly to claim he's better than Simmons today. Simmons has been very, very good so far, All-Star caliber. Time will tell on the rest.
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I don't think it's a fair comparison. Simmons has been around a couple years, though he didn't play last year. Tatum is fresh out of school and younger. Besides, Simmons is a much bigger part of the Sixers than Tatum is of the Celtics. His usage rate must be much higher. He and Embiid are basically the Sixers team. Tatum is maybe 4th or 5th player down the totem pole, but performing much better than expected.
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I'm surprised how good Simmons is without a jump shot. That has to be someone encouraging that he's doing so much without that skillset yet.
My personal opinion is a jump shot can be learned with work and time.
I'm also surprised how good Tatum is as well. I expected a player who was only a good ISO player out of the gate. He's been solid on the glass, on defense and moving the ball.
Both these guys are going to have really good to great careers maybe even special? or am I over doing it now :D
Without a jump shot he has to work that much harder.
Also his defense isnt impressive
I still like Brown or Tatum better
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Tatum?
It's not getting closer as the season wears on. Simmons was is the runaway leader earlier in the season but Tatum is making a good case at this point.
Fixed.
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simmons all star caliber? playing for a lousy team.... if brown and tatum get so many touches they will have 25ppg....
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simmons all star caliber? playing for a lousy team.... if brown and tatum get so many touches they will have 25ppg....
Exactly
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I mean I am also a homer, but I think the rookies are: 1.) Simmons, 2.) Markkannen, 3.) Tatum, 4.) Kuzma, 5.) Dillon Brooks, 6.) Fox, 7.) Mike James
Tatum and Kuzma are neck and neck, but Tatum's efficiency is more valuable in my opinion.
Did u forget Mitchell?
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The year Paul Pierce was a rookie, Vince Carter won ROY.
Don't sweat ROY. Tatum will be collecting yet another Finals MVP while the Sixers are going through yet another implosion.
Simmons is a very good player. Tatum's team came back from 22 down to beat the Sixers handily.
Give Simmons his award. He's flashy, has some numbers, and the Sports press is behind him. I wouldn't trade Tatum for him, or anyone else playing today - not LeBron, not Zinger, not Fultz, certainly not Lonzo. Not even Anthony Davis....
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Who do you want at the foul line in a tight game or the 7th game of playoffs.
You need 3 point to tie with clock running down who do you want on the court.
Simmons is not a rookie-he has spent a year watching film,communicating to the bench and working the weight room
Teams win or lose championships at foul line
Teams defenses adjust and prey on weakness
He doesn't even know what hand he should use to shoot-
Next year with Jason only 19 and growth plates not fused he may wind up the same height and given some bulk he has a more polished game already.