Kobe bryant being guarded by Rondo or TA = 42 touches , 1 hoop ?

[bobdelt]

How many assist?


How many double teams?

Shouldn't that say... Out coaching Phil Jackson, so easy Doc Rivers can do it? Doc Rivers has greatly improved from even 2 years ago.

[Roy Hobbs]

In this series, Kobe Bryant is a combined 1-6 FG (four total points) in 54 possessions when guarded by Tony Allen or Rajon Rondo. Bryant had 42 touches in those 54 possessions. In 16 possessions when defended by Rondo in this series, Bryant has 14 touches but has not attempted a shot and scored zero points.




http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-100608/daily-dime

I just don't believe that.  What's their definition of "guarded by"?  When Ray is out of the game and Tony is in it, he's covering Kobe, right?  In Game 1, Kobe scored plenty with TA in there.

I dont think they're defining it that way. I'd imagine most transition buckets aren't being counted, and Kobe wasn't "guarded" by anyone. When they're saying "guarded by", I don't think he's just referring to defense assignments, but actual touches by Kobe with a man on him.

Could very well be a flawed stat on how they define his touches too. Are those touches within scoring range? What if he brings up the ball, those shouldn't count.

I just watched highlights of Game 1 (ugh).  In one, Tony was out of position, and Kobe ended up going 1-on-1 with Perk and ended up scoring.  Does that mean he was "guarded by" Perk, because Tony got lost? 

That seems like a ridiculous way of looking at things.  Even from watching the highlights, I saw three Kobe baskets when he was guarded by Tony in Game 1, so I'm just at a loss regarding what this stat is documenting.

[wdleehi]

How many assist?


How many double teams?

Shouldn't that say... Out coaching Phil Jackson, so easy Doc Rivers can do it? Doc Rivers has greatly improved from even 2 years ago.

No, I am asking about the stats thrown around in this thread.

[BballTim]

After reviewing the game flow for Game 1, I already found two Kobe field goals when Tony was in the game (one where he was paired with Rondo, once with Nate) so I'm calling shenanigans on this.

Also, of course, the Kobe three pointer at the end of the first half of Game 2 was when he was covered by Tony, and then Rajon picked him up as he went up for his three pointer.

EDIT:  Game 1 total -- six baskets and multiple FTs while Tony was the primary man covering Kobe. 

  I think they're talking about when he's physically covered by TA or Rondo. TA obviously wasn't covering Kobe on that three pointer (the one where he stole the pass from Shelden, right?) and I don't think I'd characterize Rondo running towards Kobe from about 20 feet away and not reaching Kobe before he shot "picking him up".

[twinbree]

If he wasn't already planning to go into shoot 'em up mode tonight (and I'm sure he was after Ray's explosion), this article certainly do the trick. I only hope the law of averages continues to work in our favor and he shoots a highly inefficient % while freezing out his teammates.

[Roy Hobbs]

After reviewing the game flow for Game 1, I already found two Kobe field goals when Tony was in the game (one where he was paired with Rondo, once with Nate) so I'm calling shenanigans on this.

Also, of course, the Kobe three pointer at the end of the first half of Game 2 was when he was covered by Tony, and then Rajon picked him up as he went up for his three pointer.

EDIT:  Game 1 total -- six baskets and multiple FTs while Tony was the primary man covering Kobe. 

  I think they're talking about when he's physically covered by TA or Rondo. TA obviously wasn't covering Kobe on that three pointer (the one where he stole the pass from Shelden, right?) and I don't think I'd characterize Rondo running towards Kobe from about 20 feet away and not reaching Kobe before he shot "picking him up".

Yeah, but let's say Tony has Kobe on the perimeter, and Tony gambles / gets caught in a pick (like happened at least once in Game 1).  Kobe ends up one-on-one with Perk, and scores.

Who was "covering" Kobe there?  Perk?  That seems absurd.  That's like saying that Perk is responsible for the basket when Michael Finley allows penetration into the paint.

[bobdelt]

After reviewing the game flow for Game 1, I already found two Kobe field goals when Tony was in the game (one where he was paired with Rondo, once with Nate) so I'm calling shenanigans on this.

Also, of course, the Kobe three pointer at the end of the first half of Game 2 was when he was covered by Tony, and then Rajon picked him up as he went up for his three pointer.

EDIT:  Game 1 total -- six baskets and multiple FTs while Tony was the primary man covering Kobe. 

  I think they're talking about when he's physically covered by TA or Rondo. TA obviously wasn't covering Kobe on that three pointer (the one where he stole the pass from Shelden, right?) and I don't think I'd characterize Rondo running towards Kobe from about 20 feet away and not reaching Kobe before he shot "picking him up".

Yeah, but let's say Tony has Kobe on the perimeter, and Tony gambles / gets caught in a pick (like happened at least once in Game 1).  Kobe ends up one-on-one with Perk, and scores.

Who was "covering" Kobe there?  Perk?  That seems absurd.  That's like saying that Perk is responsible for the basket when Michael Finley allows penetration into the paint.

No stat is perfect. Except maybe points and rebounds. Assists are just as questionable. I'm pretty sure Elias keeps track of this "stat".

[Fafnir]

After reviewing the game flow for Game 1, I already found two Kobe field goals when Tony was in the game (one where he was paired with Rondo, once with Nate) so I'm calling shenanigans on this.

Also, of course, the Kobe three pointer at the end of the first half of Game 2 was when he was covered by Tony, and then Rajon picked him up as he went up for his three pointer.

EDIT:  Game 1 total -- six baskets and multiple FTs while Tony was the primary man covering Kobe. 

  I think they're talking about when he's physically covered by TA or Rondo. TA obviously wasn't covering Kobe on that three pointer (the one where he stole the pass from Shelden, right?) and I don't think I'd characterize Rondo running towards Kobe from about 20 feet away and not reaching Kobe before he shot "picking him up".

Yeah, but let's say Tony has Kobe on the perimeter, and Tony gambles / gets caught in a pick (like happened at least once in Game 1).  Kobe ends up one-on-one with Perk, and scores.

Who was "covering" Kobe there?  Perk?  That seems absurd.  That's like saying that Perk is responsible for the basket when Michael Finley allows penetration into the paint.

No stat is perfect. Except maybe points and rebounds. Assists are just as questionable. I'm pretty sure Elias keeps track of this "stat".

That doesn't really matter to Roy's point, where this stat is not of any descriptive or analytical value to how the C's have defended Kobe.

Kobe has certainly scored on Tony, several times in fact. He's also gotten a few assists after passing to a big for an easy bucket.

[celticinorlando]

it is going to be everyone....b/c kobe is going to get a ton of calls tonight

[fairweatherfan]

I'm skeptical of the stat too, but Rondo does give Kobe fits on defense - he can pick Kobe's pocket better than anyone in the league. 

The downside is Kobe can just post Rajon up in the halfcourt.  But I think we should put Rondo on Kobe whenever Kobe is isoing late in a quarter.  Doc may have done this intentionally late in Game 2, but I'm not sure.

[Jaycelt]

In this series, Kobe Bryant is a combined 1-6 FG (four total points) in 54 possessions when guarded by Tony Allen or Rajon Rondo. Bryant had 42 touches in those 54 possessions. In 16 possessions when defended by Rondo in this series, Bryant has 14 touches but has not attempted a shot and scored zero points.




http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-100608/daily-dime

I just don't believe that.  What's their definition of "guarded by"?  When Ray is out of the game and Tony is in it, he's covering Kobe, right?  In Game 1, Kobe scored plenty with TA in there.

I dont think they're defining it that way. I'd imagine most transition buckets aren't being counted, and Kobe wasn't "guarded" by anyone. When they're saying "guarded by", I don't think he's just referring to defense assignments, but actual touches by Kobe with a man on him.

Could very well be a flawed stat on how they define his touches too. Are those touches within scoring range? What if he brings up the ball, those shouldn't count.

I just watched highlights of Game 1 (ugh).  In one, Tony was out of position, and Kobe ended up going 1-on-1 with Perk and ended up scoring.  Does that mean he was "guarded by" Perk, because Tony got lost? 

That seems like a ridiculous way of looking at things.  Even from watching the highlights, I saw three Kobe baskets when he was guarded by Tony in Game 1, so I'm just at a loss regarding what this stat is documenting.

I agree Roy, this just doesn't pass the eye test.
Seems like they are cherry picking to me.

[bobdelt]

After reviewing the game flow for Game 1, I already found two Kobe field goals when Tony was in the game (one where he was paired with Rondo, once with Nate) so I'm calling shenanigans on this.

Also, of course, the Kobe three pointer at the end of the first half of Game 2 was when he was covered by Tony, and then Rajon picked him up as he went up for his three pointer.

EDIT:  Game 1 total -- six baskets and multiple FTs while Tony was the primary man covering Kobe. 

  I think they're talking about when he's physically covered by TA or Rondo. TA obviously wasn't covering Kobe on that three pointer (the one where he stole the pass from Shelden, right?) and I don't think I'd characterize Rondo running towards Kobe from about 20 feet away and not reaching Kobe before he shot "picking him up".

Yeah, but let's say Tony has Kobe on the perimeter, and Tony gambles / gets caught in a pick (like happened at least once in Game 1).  Kobe ends up one-on-one with Perk, and scores.

Who was "covering" Kobe there?  Perk?  That seems absurd.  That's like saying that Perk is responsible for the basket when Michael Finley allows penetration into the paint.

No stat is perfect. Except maybe points and rebounds. Assists are just as questionable. I'm pretty sure Elias keeps track of this "stat".

That doesn't really matter to Roy's point, where this stat is not of any descriptive or analytical value to how the C's have defended Kobe.

Kobe has certainly scored on Tony, several times in fact. He's also gotten a few assists after passing to a big for an easy bucket.

It does matter to Roy's point because it supports it. It's a dubious stat.

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

In this series, Kobe Bryant is a combined 1-6 FG (four total points) in 54 possessions when guarded by Tony Allen or Rajon Rondo. Bryant had 42 touches in those 54 possessions. In 16 possessions when defended by Rondo in this series, Bryant has 14 touches but has not attempted a shot and scored zero points.




http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-100608/daily-dime

I just don't believe that.  What's their definition of "guarded by"?  When Ray is out of the game and Tony is in it, he's covering Kobe, right?  In Game 1, Kobe scored plenty with TA in there.

I dont think they're defining it that way. I'd imagine most transition buckets aren't being counted, and Kobe wasn't "guarded" by anyone. When they're saying "guarded by", I don't think he's just referring to defense assignments, but actual touches by Kobe with a man on him.

Could very well be a flawed stat on how they define his touches too. Are those touches within scoring range? What if he brings up the ball, those shouldn't count.

I just watched highlights of Game 1 (ugh).  In one, Tony was out of position, and Kobe ended up going 1-on-1 with Perk and ended up scoring.  Does that mean he was "guarded by" Perk, because Tony got lost? 

That seems like a ridiculous way of looking at things.  Even from watching the highlights, I saw three Kobe baskets when he was guarded by Tony in Game 1, so I'm just at a loss regarding what this stat is documenting.

Let me make it easy for you, Roy.  If Kobe is in transition, leaking out for wide open dunks, then nobody is guarding him (as happened twice in Game 1).  If Kobe is stealing inbound passes and hitting threes or getting to the line, then nobody is guarding him (as happened twice in Game 2).  If Kobe is being guarded by TA, and Bynum picks him, and Perk is forced to switch onto Kobe, then Perk is guarding Kobe for purposes of this stat.  And if Mike Finley is standing straight up at the 3 point line and Farmar or Brown drive right by him for a layup or dunk, then Finley was (or at least trying to) guard them.  It's really not that hard.

As for the veracity of this stat, it stands up if you understand how it's measured.  Kobe was 6 of 7 against Ray Allen in Game 1, and 4 of 15 against everyone else (including one that he got on TA).  In Game 2, Kobe didn't score on TA at all, and Kobe was either traveling, being forced into offensive fouls, or missing buckets against TA.

As for what this means so far--probably nothing.  Kobe's found a nice rhythm against Ray (in Game 1), but Paul, TA, and Kobe have done a nice job getting in his face, getting into his body, and making him uncomfortable.  It's hard to expect that to continue to happen, since Kobe has been missing shots too.  But I think the first two games show that TA, Rondo, and Paul are all better options to guard Kobe one-on-one, though Ray Allen did a much better job guarding Kobe in Game 2.

What I'd hope the Cs take a look at is not doubling so quickly when Rondo gets caught on Kobe in a cross-switch.  Too often in Game 2, Rondo would get caught in a cross-switch, Kobe would take him into the post, somebody would double on Kobe, and Kobe would find Gasol, who would either convert himself or find Bynum for a dunk.  Those baskets were created by the double team and I'd like to see us force Kobe to score against Rondo in that situation as opposed to giving the Lakers an avenue to the interior of our defense, feeding right into their #1 advantage against us.

[Fafnir]

I'm skeptical of the stat too, but Rondo does give Kobe fits on defense - he can pick Kobe's pocket better than anyone in the league. 

The downside is Kobe can just post Rajon up in the halfcourt.  But I think we should put Rondo on Kobe whenever Kobe is isoing late in a quarter.  Doc may have done this intentionally late in Game 2, but I'm not sure.

I don't like that match up, because Kobe will draw  double in the post. He did this at least once in the series and got a wide open shot for a team mate when help came for Rondo down low.

[Fafnir]

As for the veracity of this stat, it stands up if you understand how it's measured.  Kobe was 6 of 7 against Ray Allen in Game 1, and 4 of 15 against everyone else (including one that he got on TA).  In Game 2, Kobe didn't score on TA at all, and Kobe was either traveling, being forced into offensive fouls, or missing buckets against TA.

How does its veracity stand up if Kobe's multiple blow byes of Tonay in game 1 aren't counted against him?

I just don't see it, isn't Synergy on demo mode for the playoffs? I'd be interested to see the possession numbers when Tony starts out guarding Kobe on the wing.