Author Topic: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong  (Read 5221 times)

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Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2015, 01:35:04 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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2014 draft working out greeeeaaaat for us so far.

Why has everyone been crapping on Smart the last couple of days? Offensively and shooting-wise, he's been crappy so far this year, but between his injuries and it being the start of the season, it's understandable that he hasn't got his flow in the offense yet. Other than that, I thought he's been outstanding defensively and other parts of the game, i.e. passing, moving off the ball, etc. He seems to be an easy target right now since he's injured, but I think he's one of our least concerns on our team right now.

There's just a nagging part of me the last week or two that's been wondering if maybe Smart is just a nice role player who does a lot of intangible things and plays with exactly the kind of attitude you want your guys to have, but doesn't have the kind of offensive talent to provide one of the pillars you need to build a team on.

Probably silly, considering the sample size is so small so far this year.  He's injured.  We need to wait.  I was just hoping to have more by now than just the OKC game to make me feel like Smart is ready to take the next step forward in his development.

Even if that's all he is, by the way -- a nice role player who plays great defense and has awesome intangibles and leadership -- that's a guy every team in the league would love to have.  Just falls a bit short of what I think most of us are hoping Smart can be, considering he's the only top 10 pick we've gotten out of this rebuild process so far.
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Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2015, 02:52:03 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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what is someone worth that can shut down korver or plays westbrook to a draw,that overpowers guards and can switch to forwards-last year it was high ankle,this summer ripped his fingers out of joint now his knee-this guy is so strong and plays with such force he gets very rare  catastrophic injuries-

Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2015, 02:58:23 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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2014 draft working out greeeeaaaat for us so far.

Why has everyone been crapping on Smart the last couple of days? Offensively and shooting-wise, he's been crappy so far this year, but between his injuries and it being the start of the season, it's understandable that he hasn't got his flow in the offense yet. Other than that, I thought he's been outstanding defensively and other parts of the game, i.e. passing, moving off the ball, etc. He seems to be an easy target right now since he's injured, but I think he's one of our least concerns on our team right now.

There's just a nagging part of me the last week or two that's been wondering if maybe Smart is just a nice role player who does a lot of intangible things and plays with exactly the kind of attitude you want your guys to have, but doesn't have the kind of offensive talent to provide one of the pillars you need to build a team on.

Probably silly, considering the sample size is so small so far this year.  He's injured.  We need to wait.  I was just hoping to have more by now than just the OKC game to make me feel like Smart is ready to take the next step forward in his development.

Even if that's all he is, by the way -- a nice role player who plays great defense and has awesome intangibles and leadership -- that's a guy every team in the league would love to have.  Just falls a bit short of what I think most of us are hoping Smart can be, considering he's the only top 10 pick we've gotten out of this rebuild process so far.

In other words, Smart might be Tony Allen 2.0. Which is great for the defense, but mostly a liability for the offense. This is my main concern with him.
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Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2015, 03:09:39 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Is it possible that the injury tightened back up as he sat on the bench?  They treated it all day and probably got it into a playable condition.  Then he sat and he sat and he sat.   


Is it possible he knew he wasn't going to be able to play at a level that he needed to play even in some meaningless minutes?  Should he take the chance of hurting it worse for those garbage minutes if his arm's condition had deteriorated because of a lack of motion for so long?




I don't know.  No one really knows except him and hopefully the team. 

Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2015, 03:24:45 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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In other words, Smart might be Tony Allen 2.0. Which is great for the defense, but mostly a liability for the offense. This is my main concern with him.

I'm still gonna push back against the TA 2.0 thing because Smart can actually keep the ball moving and assist other guys, plus he's a good enough spot up shooter from deep that opponents have to at least guard him.

Still, I think we mostly agree.  The concern is that he might just be a nice supporting player, not a main piece.  Part of the puzzle, but doesn't really make the path to contention any clearer.
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Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2015, 03:47:25 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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In other words, Smart might be Tony Allen 2.0. Which is great for the defense, but mostly a liability for the offense. This is my main concern with him.

I'm still gonna push back against the TA 2.0 thing because Smart can actually keep the ball moving and assist other guys, plus he's a good enough spot up shooter from deep that opponents have to at least guard him.

Still, I think we mostly agree.  The concern is that he might just be a nice supporting player, not a main piece.  Part of the puzzle, but doesn't really make the path to contention any clearer.

This is basically where I'm with Smart right now. I wasn't a fan of him during the draft because he didn't seem to have a great first step in college. Just seemed to outmuscle people for points and you can't do that in the NBA.

I was however optimistic after Ainge drafted him because of the intangible thing, but now he seems like nothing more than a role player. I'm actually disappointed in myself for defending him for the past year. I should've stuck with my gut but I had faith in Danny.

If Smart does indeed become a role player, then people need to start questioning Ainge. You can't miss that high when rebuilding, especially when the celtics won't tank for picks.

Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2015, 04:11:39 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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In other words, Smart might be Tony Allen 2.0. Which is great for the defense, but mostly a liability for the offense. This is my main concern with him.

I'm still gonna push back against the TA 2.0 thing because Smart can actually keep the ball moving and assist other guys, plus he's a good enough spot up shooter from deep that opponents have to at least guard him.

Still, I think we mostly agree.  The concern is that he might just be a nice supporting player, not a main piece.  Part of the puzzle, but doesn't really make the path to contention any clearer.

This is basically where I'm with Smart right now. I wasn't a fan of him during the draft because he didn't seem to have a great first step in college. Just seemed to outmuscle people for points and you can't do that in the NBA.

I was however optimistic after Ainge drafted him because of the intangible thing, but now he seems like nothing more than a role player. I'm actually disappointed in myself for defending him for the past year. I should've stuck with my gut but I had faith in Danny.

If Smart does indeed become a role player, then people need to start questioning Ainge. You can't miss that high when rebuilding, especially when the celtics won't tank for picks.
A good role player isn't a bust.  With the 6th pick, Ainge realistically had two choices: Smart or Randle.  I probably would have gone with Randle from an upside perspective but it was a close call between the two.  Choosing anyone else would have been a reach.   

Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2015, 04:13:56 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Seems like an ego problem to me. He probably doesn't want to be looked at as a garbage time player right now after being one of the best players on the court at all times of his life prior to this. But, hey, sometimes that's just what rookies have to do. You don't see Rozier, Hunter, or Mickey acting this way.

I agree.

He was always a risky pick so I don't really care if it doesn't work out.  There are always risks at this point in the draft.

The reality is there are always guys who fizzle out in the draft especially when you get past the lottery.

I really liked Ainge's picks this year so that helps concerns with Young.   Young is still younger than Hunter by a couple years I believe so just keep that in mind with possible maturity.  Not saying I love him but he could still turn out well even if he has issues.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 04:20:43 PM by Snakehead »
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Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2015, 04:18:17 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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You guys need to get over your "role player" labels.  If Smart is an All Defense player (seems like a lock) and maybe a solid scorer and playmaker too that's a great player that can play on a great team.  That's a guy who can make an All Star team if he improves his shooting.  That's good for the 6th pick.

My concerns with Smart are his health and how his offense continues to develop (really up and down now) but he continues to show improvement.  He can really pass this year is the thing so he is never hurting an offense.  I don't see how someone is possibly down on Smart right now overall.
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Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2015, 04:25:17 PM »

Offline wiley

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You guys need to get over your "role player" labels.  If Smart is an All Defense player (seems like a lock) and maybe a solid scorer and playmaker too that's a great player that can play on a great team.  That's a guy who can make an All Star team if he improves his shooting.  That's good for the 6th pick.

My concerns with Smart are his health and how his offense continues to develop (really up and down now) but he continues to show improvement.  He can really pass this year is the thing so he is never hurting an offense.  I don't see how someone is possibly down on Smart right now overall.

TP.  I've never been less worried about a Celtic player.

Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2015, 04:27:09 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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You guys need to get over your "role player" labels.  If Smart is an All Defense player (seems like a lock) and maybe a solid scorer and playmaker too that's a great player that can play on a great team.  That's a guy who can make an All Star team if he improves his shooting.  That's good for the 6th pick.

My concerns with Smart are his health and how his offense continues to develop (really up and down now) but he continues to show improvement.  He can really pass this year is the thing so he is never hurting an offense.  I don't see how someone is possibly down on Smart right now overall.

Lets put it this way, Avery Bradley might end up a better offensive player than Smart.

Randle will average a double double and that has more trade value. I know people here value Smart's defense, but smart front office execs realize that doesn't matter. Smart's amazing defense didn't get him far against Paul George. You need a big like KG to make an impact defensively, sorry. That's just the real honest truth. Tony Allen's great defense hasn't gotten memphis anything. They run into the same problem they do every year after making the playoffs, they can't score enough...

Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2015, 04:28:23 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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You guys need to get over your "role player" labels.  If Smart is an All Defense player (seems like a lock) and maybe a solid scorer and playmaker too that's a great player that can play on a great team.  That's a guy who can make an All Star team if he improves his shooting.  That's good for the 6th pick.

My concerns with Smart are his health and how his offense continues to develop (really up and down now) but he continues to show improvement.  He can really pass this year is the thing so he is never hurting an offense.  I don't see how someone is possibly down on Smart right now overall.

TP.  I've never been less worried about a Celtic player.

Bradley would've made the all star team if this is true. I don't see the great defender you see. Can someone share Marcus Smart's defensive stats. I don't believe they are that great...

Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2015, 04:35:21 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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You guys need to get over your "role player" labels.  If Smart is an All Defense player (seems like a lock) and maybe a solid scorer and playmaker too that's a great player that can play on a great team.  That's a guy who can make an All Star team if he improves his shooting.  That's good for the 6th pick.

My concerns with Smart are his health and how his offense continues to develop (really up and down now) but he continues to show improvement.  He can really pass this year is the thing so he is never hurting an offense.  I don't see how someone is possibly down on Smart right now overall.

Lets put it this way, Avery Bradley might end up a better offensive player than Smart.

Randle will average a double double and that has more trade value. I know people here value Smart's defense, but smart front office execs realize that doesn't matter. Smart's amazing defense didn't get him far against Paul George. You need a big like KG to make an impact defensively, sorry. That's just the real honest truth. Tony Allen's great defense hasn't gotten memphis anything. They run into the same problem they do every year after making the playoffs, they can't score enough...

You think perimeter defense doesn't matter to winning?  I don't get your argument.   His stats are good and this is the eye test... it's a great eye test:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxmkDHk-LZg

Bradley is a better shooter (although right now Bradley is shooting better than 40% from three.  He may end up being a good offensive player in his career) but Smart is a better passer and he has shown some ability to get to the rim with floaters that Avery never has shown.

I think he's already better than Avery on defense as well and more versatile for sure.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 04:43:55 PM by Snakehead »
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Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2015, 04:35:27 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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You guys need to get over your "role player" labels.  If Smart is an All Defense player (seems like a lock) and maybe a solid scorer and playmaker too that's a great player that can play on a great team.  That's a guy who can make an All Star team if he improves his shooting.  That's good for the 6th pick.

My concerns with Smart are his health and how his offense continues to develop (really up and down now) but he continues to show improvement.  He can really pass this year is the thing so he is never hurting an offense.  I don't see how someone is possibly down on Smart right now overall.

TP.  I've never been less worried about a Celtic player.

Bradley would've made the all star team if this is true. I don't see the great defender you see. Can someone share Marcus Smart's defensive stats. I don't believe they are that great...
What do you see, when you see Marcus playing defense? Try focusing on him rather than focusing on the ball. If you just focus on him I don't know how you can view him as anything but an elite defender.

Here are some stats from last year.
http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar/misc-050415-2015-awards-series-DPOY

DKC:  Rockets
CB Draft: Memphis Grizz
Players: Klay Thompson, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon
Next 3 picks: 4.14, 4.15, 4.19

Re: James Young supposed to play in the Wizards game, slept on 'shoulder' wrong
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2015, 04:35:51 PM »

Offline KeepRondo

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You guys need to get over your "role player" labels.  If Smart is an All Defense player (seems like a lock) and maybe a solid scorer and playmaker too that's a great player that can play on a great team.  That's a guy who can make an All Star team if he improves his shooting.  That's good for the 6th pick.

My concerns with Smart are his health and how his offense continues to develop (really up and down now) but he continues to show improvement.  He can really pass this year is the thing so he is never hurting an offense.  I don't see how someone is possibly down on Smart right now overall.
Here are some possible reasons -

He's shooting 33 percent. Do I have to explain why this is bad?

He still struggles to find clean air when driving to the hoop. Gets swallowed up at the rim by taller and more athletic players.

Has twisted his ankle, dislocated fingers, sprained a toe and tore something in his knee all within a year of playing.

Seems to have occasional blow ups.

More of a tweener guard and hasn't fit into a position yet. The flip side is he can play three positions but asking him to be your primary ball handler might be asking too much.

As great as Smart might become, these concerns listed above are legitimate. He has to start showing up on offense more often.