Jalen Rose on Rondo

[twistedrico]

I think before the Celtics trade Rondo they had better make sure that Marcus Smart is the PG of the future!

[BballTim]

Rose and Bill Simmons had a podcast and Simmons pitched Rose on his idea of Rondo to Charlotte. Rose said he wouldn't do it if he were Charlotte because it's a combustible situation. Rondo is a player that has the ball for 20 seconds of a possession, while Stephenson wants the ball in his hands too and neither is a good shooter.

Rose then added that he would like to see Rondo in Detroit and both agreed that a deal centered around Monroe and a #1 for Rondo would work for both teams.

Just interesting that the Rondo for Monroe deal that we've floated around was also mentioned by Rose. Love him or hate him, Rose does know the game and I respect his opinion.

Wow, that's pretty hilarious.

Jalen says the reason Charlotte wouldn't want Rondo is because their best perimeter player likes to set up other people and isn't a great shooter, but then immediately suggests Detroit, whose best player is Josh Smith.

The whole Rondo can't play with other shot creators thing that pops up from time to time is beyond ridiculous.  How does playing with Pierce and KG not completely null that argument?  I knew Jalen would make me laugh when I clicked on this thread.

1. No, he said it because Stephenson needs/wants the ball in his hands.

2. Rondo played with both KG and Pierce, but they were really good shooters and could excel at spotting up and playing off of Rondo. Stephenson isn't that type of player/shooter.

Stephenson is at his best with the ball in his hands (much like Pierce) (and on an IND team with no PG), that doesn't mean he needs the ball in his hands at all times, or that he wouldn't be better with the ball in Rondo's hands setting him up.

Stephenson is certainly no where near the level where the ball should be in his hands at the start of every possesion.  Wade is/was much closer to that level and averaged way more assists, but that doesn't mean he didn't work with LeBron (who is one of the most ball-dominant players in the league).

Nothing you've said gives evidence that Stephenson wouldn't be effective playing off Rondo.  He certainly had no trouble with all the time the ball was in George's hands, West's hands, Hibbert's, or Hill's.  Nor have you contended my actual point, which was that Josh Smith's shooting and desire to be the one creating with the ball is no different than Stephenson's.

Stephenson is more effective with the ball in his hands. He's not the type of player that "needs" the ball at all times, but he is very ball dominant and thinking he'll take a backseat to Rondo is a stretch. Part of the problem in Indiana was that Hibbert and West felt the ball should've been going inside/out like it had in previous years. This didn't happened last year as Stephenson came into his own. This is further evidenced by Stephenson leading the Pacers in assists last year at 4.6 apg, while averaging 2.9 apg, and tied with West, the season prior.

  According to nba.com he isn't among the top 80 players in the league in either time of possession or touches per game. Not the most ball dominant player you'll see. He's good at creating his shot but he's  probably capable of playing off the ball, he did a lot before this year.

Rondo was 2nd in time of possession at 7.8 minutes in 33.6 mpg. Only 0.2 behind Wall despite playing 3 mpg less. So with the increase in minutes expected next year he'd likely jump to #1.

In front court touches per game, where it excludes the time of possession and when a pg bring up the ball, Rondo was 4th despite the lowered minutes. Stephenson was 68th.

So combining the amount of time they spend dominating the ball with the fact that Rondo is a poor shooter and Stephenson is streaky and average in that department, it's fair to say that the pairing would have difficulty co-existing.

This doesn't even take into account how their personalities would mesh.

  68th in front court possessions means that most teams have 2-3 players ahead of Lance in that category. He's slightly ahead of Bradley and Green n that category. I don't think that qualifies as "ball dominant".

68th in front court possessions puts him 6 spots behind Wade and 10 spots behind Love and ahead of Aldridge, Gay, and M Gasol. That number is only going to ascend as he continues to improve.

  Yes, but are players like Love, Aldridge and Gasol ball dominant?

[D.o.s.]

^ No dog in this fight, but you'd have to control for guards if you wanted to say anything meaningful about it.

[Eddie20]

Rose and Bill Simmons had a podcast and Simmons pitched Rose on his idea of Rondo to Charlotte. Rose said he wouldn't do it if he were Charlotte because it's a combustible situation. Rondo is a player that has the ball for 20 seconds of a possession, while Stephenson wants the ball in his hands too and neither is a good shooter.

Rose then added that he would like to see Rondo in Detroit and both agreed that a deal centered around Monroe and a #1 for Rondo would work for both teams.

Just interesting that the Rondo for Monroe deal that we've floated around was also mentioned by Rose. Love him or hate him, Rose does know the game and I respect his opinion.

Wow, that's pretty hilarious.

Jalen says the reason Charlotte wouldn't want Rondo is because their best perimeter player likes to set up other people and isn't a great shooter, but then immediately suggests Detroit, whose best player is Josh Smith.

The whole Rondo can't play with other shot creators thing that pops up from time to time is beyond ridiculous.  How does playing with Pierce and KG not completely null that argument?  I knew Jalen would make me laugh when I clicked on this thread.

1. No, he said it because Stephenson needs/wants the ball in his hands.

2. Rondo played with both KG and Pierce, but they were really good shooters and could excel at spotting up and playing off of Rondo. Stephenson isn't that type of player/shooter.

Stephenson is at his best with the ball in his hands (much like Pierce) (and on an IND team with no PG), that doesn't mean he needs the ball in his hands at all times, or that he wouldn't be better with the ball in Rondo's hands setting him up.

Stephenson is certainly no where near the level where the ball should be in his hands at the start of every possesion.  Wade is/was much closer to that level and averaged way more assists, but that doesn't mean he didn't work with LeBron (who is one of the most ball-dominant players in the league).

Nothing you've said gives evidence that Stephenson wouldn't be effective playing off Rondo.  He certainly had no trouble with all the time the ball was in George's hands, West's hands, Hibbert's, or Hill's.  Nor have you contended my actual point, which was that Josh Smith's shooting and desire to be the one creating with the ball is no different than Stephenson's.

Stephenson is more effective with the ball in his hands. He's not the type of player that "needs" the ball at all times, but he is very ball dominant and thinking he'll take a backseat to Rondo is a stretch. Part of the problem in Indiana was that Hibbert and West felt the ball should've been going inside/out like it had in previous years. This didn't happened last year as Stephenson came into his own. This is further evidenced by Stephenson leading the Pacers in assists last year at 4.6 apg, while averaging 2.9 apg, and tied with West, the season prior.

  According to nba.com he isn't among the top 80 players in the league in either time of possession or touches per game. Not the most ball dominant player you'll see. He's good at creating his shot but he's  probably capable of playing off the ball, he did a lot before this year.

Rondo was 2nd in time of possession at 7.8 minutes in 33.6 mpg. Only 0.2 behind Wall despite playing 3 mpg less. So with the increase in minutes expected next year he'd likely jump to #1.

In front court touches per game, where it excludes the time of possession and when a pg bring up the ball, Rondo was 4th despite the lowered minutes. Stephenson was 68th.

So combining the amount of time they spend dominating the ball with the fact that Rondo is a poor shooter and Stephenson is streaky and average in that department, it's fair to say that the pairing would have difficulty co-existing.

This doesn't even take into account how their personalities would mesh.

  68th in front court possessions means that most teams have 2-3 players ahead of Lance in that category. He's slightly ahead of Bradley and Green n that category. I don't think that qualifies as "ball dominant".

68th in front court possessions puts him 6 spots behind Wade and 10 spots behind Love and ahead of Aldridge, Gay, and M Gasol. That number is only going to ascend as he continues to improve.

  Yes, but are players like Love, Aldridge and Gasol ball dominant?

In a halfcourt set, which is what this stat is tracking, the ball absolutely flows through them.

[ForexPirate]

if Danny was going to do a Monroe trade, he would have done it before Monroe signed his QO.  I think Danny's target is Josh Smith and he is going to send the Green and Thornton when Thornton can be traded. 

This solves Detroits failed Smith at SF experiment.  It gives us a  friend of Rondo's and possible influence to stay with us at the end of the season.  Smith can dramatically help our low post defense.

 This will open up the SF position here for Turner.

We have a lot of pieces to develop and trade.  I would like to see this trade come off

Awesome defensive back court
Rondo, Smart
Bradley, Young

potential go to guy at small forward
Turner, young, wallace

Better defense from the bigs
Josh Smith, Sully, Bass
Zeller, KO, FAV

We will have a good defensive team

[gpap]

if Danny was going to do a Monroe trade, he would have done it before Monroe signed his QO.  I think Danny's target is Josh Smith and he is going to send the Green and Thornton when Thornton can be traded. 

This solves Detroits failed Smith at SF experiment.  It gives us a  friend of Rondo's and possible influence to stay with us at the end of the season.  Smith can dramatically help our low post defense.

 This will open up the SF position here for Turner.

We have a lot of pieces to develop and trade.  I would like to see this trade come off

Awesome defensive back court
Rondo, Smart
Bradley, Young

potential go to guy at small forward
Turner, young, wallace

Better defense from the bigs
Josh Smith, Sully, Bass
Zeller, KO, FAV

We will have a good defensive team

Would love to have Josh Smith here.

[Eddie20]

if Danny was going to do a Monroe trade, he would have done it before Monroe signed his QO.  I think Danny's target is Josh Smith and he is going to send the Green and Thornton when Thornton can be traded. 

This solves Detroits failed Smith at SF experiment.  It gives us a  friend of Rondo's and possible influence to stay with us at the end of the season.  Smith can dramatically help our low post defense.

 This will open up the SF position here for Turner.

We have a lot of pieces to develop and trade.  I would like to see this trade come off

Awesome defensive back court
Rondo, Smart
Bradley, Young

potential go to guy at small forward
Turner, young, wallace

Better defense from the bigs
Josh Smith, Sully, Bass
Zeller, KO, FAV

We will have a good defensive team

Not a fan at all.

Having Smith, and presuming Rondo re-signs as a result of it, we would be saddled with 2 players who are athletically dependent and are nearing 30. This deal wouldn't make us a contender, but instead ensures that we're good enough to make the playoffs, but bad enough to not be a true contender. This would also kill all our financial flexibility, hurts 3 of our better prospects (Olynyk and Sully are natural 4's, while Smart is best suited for the 1), and that lineup's lack of shooting kills our offensive spacing.

[BballTim]

Rose and Bill Simmons had a podcast and Simmons pitched Rose on his idea of Rondo to Charlotte. Rose said he wouldn't do it if he were Charlotte because it's a combustible situation. Rondo is a player that has the ball for 20 seconds of a possession, while Stephenson wants the ball in his hands too and neither is a good shooter.

Rose then added that he would like to see Rondo in Detroit and both agreed that a deal centered around Monroe and a #1 for Rondo would work for both teams.

Just interesting that the Rondo for Monroe deal that we've floated around was also mentioned by Rose. Love him or hate him, Rose does know the game and I respect his opinion.

Wow, that's pretty hilarious.

Jalen says the reason Charlotte wouldn't want Rondo is because their best perimeter player likes to set up other people and isn't a great shooter, but then immediately suggests Detroit, whose best player is Josh Smith.

The whole Rondo can't play with other shot creators thing that pops up from time to time is beyond ridiculous.  How does playing with Pierce and KG not completely null that argument?  I knew Jalen would make me laugh when I clicked on this thread.

1. No, he said it because Stephenson needs/wants the ball in his hands.

2. Rondo played with both KG and Pierce, but they were really good shooters and could excel at spotting up and playing off of Rondo. Stephenson isn't that type of player/shooter.

Stephenson is at his best with the ball in his hands (much like Pierce) (and on an IND team with no PG), that doesn't mean he needs the ball in his hands at all times, or that he wouldn't be better with the ball in Rondo's hands setting him up.

Stephenson is certainly no where near the level where the ball should be in his hands at the start of every possesion.  Wade is/was much closer to that level and averaged way more assists, but that doesn't mean he didn't work with LeBron (who is one of the most ball-dominant players in the league).

Nothing you've said gives evidence that Stephenson wouldn't be effective playing off Rondo.  He certainly had no trouble with all the time the ball was in George's hands, West's hands, Hibbert's, or Hill's.  Nor have you contended my actual point, which was that Josh Smith's shooting and desire to be the one creating with the ball is no different than Stephenson's.

Stephenson is more effective with the ball in his hands. He's not the type of player that "needs" the ball at all times, but he is very ball dominant and thinking he'll take a backseat to Rondo is a stretch. Part of the problem in Indiana was that Hibbert and West felt the ball should've been going inside/out like it had in previous years. This didn't happened last year as Stephenson came into his own. This is further evidenced by Stephenson leading the Pacers in assists last year at 4.6 apg, while averaging 2.9 apg, and tied with West, the season prior.

  According to nba.com he isn't among the top 80 players in the league in either time of possession or touches per game. Not the most ball dominant player you'll see. He's good at creating his shot but he's  probably capable of playing off the ball, he did a lot before this year.

Rondo was 2nd in time of possession at 7.8 minutes in 33.6 mpg. Only 0.2 behind Wall despite playing 3 mpg less. So with the increase in minutes expected next year he'd likely jump to #1.

In front court touches per game, where it excludes the time of possession and when a pg bring up the ball, Rondo was 4th despite the lowered minutes. Stephenson was 68th.

So combining the amount of time they spend dominating the ball with the fact that Rondo is a poor shooter and Stephenson is streaky and average in that department, it's fair to say that the pairing would have difficulty co-existing.

This doesn't even take into account how their personalities would mesh.

  68th in front court possessions means that most teams have 2-3 players ahead of Lance in that category. He's slightly ahead of Bradley and Green n that category. I don't think that qualifies as "ball dominant".

68th in front court possessions puts him 6 spots behind Wade and 10 spots behind Love and ahead of Aldridge, Gay, and M Gasol. That number is only going to ascend as he continues to improve.

  Yes, but are players like Love, Aldridge and Gasol ball dominant?

In a halfcourt set, which is what this stat is tracking, the ball absolutely flows through them.

  So Lance has about 46 frontcourt touches a game. If Bradley played the same number of minutes he'd have 43 a game. Does the ball absolutely flow through him on offense? Is he ball dominant?

[Eddie20]

Rose and Bill Simmons had a podcast and Simmons pitched Rose on his idea of Rondo to Charlotte. Rose said he wouldn't do it if he were Charlotte because it's a combustible situation. Rondo is a player that has the ball for 20 seconds of a possession, while Stephenson wants the ball in his hands too and neither is a good shooter.

Rose then added that he would like to see Rondo in Detroit and both agreed that a deal centered around Monroe and a #1 for Rondo would work for both teams.

Just interesting that the Rondo for Monroe deal that we've floated around was also mentioned by Rose. Love him or hate him, Rose does know the game and I respect his opinion.

Wow, that's pretty hilarious.

Jalen says the reason Charlotte wouldn't want Rondo is because their best perimeter player likes to set up other people and isn't a great shooter, but then immediately suggests Detroit, whose best player is Josh Smith.

The whole Rondo can't play with other shot creators thing that pops up from time to time is beyond ridiculous.  How does playing with Pierce and KG not completely null that argument?  I knew Jalen would make me laugh when I clicked on this thread.

1. No, he said it because Stephenson needs/wants the ball in his hands.

2. Rondo played with both KG and Pierce, but they were really good shooters and could excel at spotting up and playing off of Rondo. Stephenson isn't that type of player/shooter.

Stephenson is at his best with the ball in his hands (much like Pierce) (and on an IND team with no PG), that doesn't mean he needs the ball in his hands at all times, or that he wouldn't be better with the ball in Rondo's hands setting him up.

Stephenson is certainly no where near the level where the ball should be in his hands at the start of every possesion.  Wade is/was much closer to that level and averaged way more assists, but that doesn't mean he didn't work with LeBron (who is one of the most ball-dominant players in the league).

Nothing you've said gives evidence that Stephenson wouldn't be effective playing off Rondo.  He certainly had no trouble with all the time the ball was in George's hands, West's hands, Hibbert's, or Hill's.  Nor have you contended my actual point, which was that Josh Smith's shooting and desire to be the one creating with the ball is no different than Stephenson's.

Stephenson is more effective with the ball in his hands. He's not the type of player that "needs" the ball at all times, but he is very ball dominant and thinking he'll take a backseat to Rondo is a stretch. Part of the problem in Indiana was that Hibbert and West felt the ball should've been going inside/out like it had in previous years. This didn't happened last year as Stephenson came into his own. This is further evidenced by Stephenson leading the Pacers in assists last year at 4.6 apg, while averaging 2.9 apg, and tied with West, the season prior.

  According to nba.com he isn't among the top 80 players in the league in either time of possession or touches per game. Not the most ball dominant player you'll see. He's good at creating his shot but he's  probably capable of playing off the ball, he did a lot before this year.

Rondo was 2nd in time of possession at 7.8 minutes in 33.6 mpg. Only 0.2 behind Wall despite playing 3 mpg less. So with the increase in minutes expected next year he'd likely jump to #1.

In front court touches per game, where it excludes the time of possession and when a pg bring up the ball, Rondo was 4th despite the lowered minutes. Stephenson was 68th.

So combining the amount of time they spend dominating the ball with the fact that Rondo is a poor shooter and Stephenson is streaky and average in that department, it's fair to say that the pairing would have difficulty co-existing.

This doesn't even take into account how their personalities would mesh.

  68th in front court possessions means that most teams have 2-3 players ahead of Lance in that category. He's slightly ahead of Bradley and Green n that category. I don't think that qualifies as "ball dominant".

68th in front court possessions puts him 6 spots behind Wade and 10 spots behind Love and ahead of Aldridge, Gay, and M Gasol. That number is only going to ascend as he continues to improve.

  Yes, but are players like Love, Aldridge and Gasol ball dominant?

In a halfcourt set, which is what this stat is tracking, the ball absolutely flows through them.

  So Lance has about 46 frontcourt touches a game. If Bradley played the same number of minutes he'd have 43 a game. Does the ball absolutely flow through him on offense? Is he ball dominant?

So if Bradley played with the same level of talent as Stephenson do you think the number would rise, remain even, or decrease?

Stephenson dominates the ball and it became more apparent later in the year and through the playoffs. He likes going 1 on 1 and often dribbles way too much trying to break his man down. Not coincidentally that moniker "Make him dance Lance" was made for exactly that.

Sometimes I think you argue just for the sake of arguing.

[BballTim]

Rose and Bill Simmons had a podcast and Simmons pitched Rose on his idea of Rondo to Charlotte. Rose said he wouldn't do it if he were Charlotte because it's a combustible situation. Rondo is a player that has the ball for 20 seconds of a possession, while Stephenson wants the ball in his hands too and neither is a good shooter.

Rose then added that he would like to see Rondo in Detroit and both agreed that a deal centered around Monroe and a #1 for Rondo would work for both teams.

Just interesting that the Rondo for Monroe deal that we've floated around was also mentioned by Rose. Love him or hate him, Rose does know the game and I respect his opinion.

Wow, that's pretty hilarious.

Jalen says the reason Charlotte wouldn't want Rondo is because their best perimeter player likes to set up other people and isn't a great shooter, but then immediately suggests Detroit, whose best player is Josh Smith.

The whole Rondo can't play with other shot creators thing that pops up from time to time is beyond ridiculous.  How does playing with Pierce and KG not completely null that argument?  I knew Jalen would make me laugh when I clicked on this thread.

1. No, he said it because Stephenson needs/wants the ball in his hands.

2. Rondo played with both KG and Pierce, but they were really good shooters and could excel at spotting up and playing off of Rondo. Stephenson isn't that type of player/shooter.

Stephenson is at his best with the ball in his hands (much like Pierce) (and on an IND team with no PG), that doesn't mean he needs the ball in his hands at all times, or that he wouldn't be better with the ball in Rondo's hands setting him up.

Stephenson is certainly no where near the level where the ball should be in his hands at the start of every possesion.  Wade is/was much closer to that level and averaged way more assists, but that doesn't mean he didn't work with LeBron (who is one of the most ball-dominant players in the league).

Nothing you've said gives evidence that Stephenson wouldn't be effective playing off Rondo.  He certainly had no trouble with all the time the ball was in George's hands, West's hands, Hibbert's, or Hill's.  Nor have you contended my actual point, which was that Josh Smith's shooting and desire to be the one creating with the ball is no different than Stephenson's.

Stephenson is more effective with the ball in his hands. He's not the type of player that "needs" the ball at all times, but he is very ball dominant and thinking he'll take a backseat to Rondo is a stretch. Part of the problem in Indiana was that Hibbert and West felt the ball should've been going inside/out like it had in previous years. This didn't happened last year as Stephenson came into his own. This is further evidenced by Stephenson leading the Pacers in assists last year at 4.6 apg, while averaging 2.9 apg, and tied with West, the season prior.

  According to nba.com he isn't among the top 80 players in the league in either time of possession or touches per game. Not the most ball dominant player you'll see. He's good at creating his shot but he's  probably capable of playing off the ball, he did a lot before this year.

Rondo was 2nd in time of possession at 7.8 minutes in 33.6 mpg. Only 0.2 behind Wall despite playing 3 mpg less. So with the increase in minutes expected next year he'd likely jump to #1.

In front court touches per game, where it excludes the time of possession and when a pg bring up the ball, Rondo was 4th despite the lowered minutes. Stephenson was 68th.

So combining the amount of time they spend dominating the ball with the fact that Rondo is a poor shooter and Stephenson is streaky and average in that department, it's fair to say that the pairing would have difficulty co-existing.

This doesn't even take into account how their personalities would mesh.

  68th in front court possessions means that most teams have 2-3 players ahead of Lance in that category. He's slightly ahead of Bradley and Green n that category. I don't think that qualifies as "ball dominant".

68th in front court possessions puts him 6 spots behind Wade and 10 spots behind Love and ahead of Aldridge, Gay, and M Gasol. That number is only going to ascend as he continues to improve.

  Yes, but are players like Love, Aldridge and Gasol ball dominant?

In a halfcourt set, which is what this stat is tracking, the ball absolutely flows through them.

  So Lance has about 46 frontcourt touches a game. If Bradley played the same number of minutes he'd have 43 a game. Does the ball absolutely flow through him on offense? Is he ball dominant?

So if Bradley played with the same level of talent as Stephenson do you think the number would rise, remain even, or decrease?

Stephenson dominates the ball and it became more apparent later in the year and through the playoffs. He likes going 1 on 1 and often dribbles way too much trying to break his man down. Not coincidentally that moniker "Make him dance Lance" was made for exactly that.

Sometimes I think you argue just for the sake of arguing.

  According to you Bradley plays with the most ball dominant player in the league, I'm guessing you'd expect his touches to rise if he were on a different team.

[Eddie20]

Rose and Bill Simmons had a podcast and Simmons pitched Rose on his idea of Rondo to Charlotte. Rose said he wouldn't do it if he were Charlotte because it's a combustible situation. Rondo is a player that has the ball for 20 seconds of a possession, while Stephenson wants the ball in his hands too and neither is a good shooter.

Rose then added that he would like to see Rondo in Detroit and both agreed that a deal centered around Monroe and a #1 for Rondo would work for both teams.

Just interesting that the Rondo for Monroe deal that we've floated around was also mentioned by Rose. Love him or hate him, Rose does know the game and I respect his opinion.

Wow, that's pretty hilarious.

Jalen says the reason Charlotte wouldn't want Rondo is because their best perimeter player likes to set up other people and isn't a great shooter, but then immediately suggests Detroit, whose best player is Josh Smith.

The whole Rondo can't play with other shot creators thing that pops up from time to time is beyond ridiculous.  How does playing with Pierce and KG not completely null that argument?  I knew Jalen would make me laugh when I clicked on this thread.

1. No, he said it because Stephenson needs/wants the ball in his hands.

2. Rondo played with both KG and Pierce, but they were really good shooters and could excel at spotting up and playing off of Rondo. Stephenson isn't that type of player/shooter.

Stephenson is at his best with the ball in his hands (much like Pierce) (and on an IND team with no PG), that doesn't mean he needs the ball in his hands at all times, or that he wouldn't be better with the ball in Rondo's hands setting him up.

Stephenson is certainly no where near the level where the ball should be in his hands at the start of every possesion.  Wade is/was much closer to that level and averaged way more assists, but that doesn't mean he didn't work with LeBron (who is one of the most ball-dominant players in the league).

Nothing you've said gives evidence that Stephenson wouldn't be effective playing off Rondo.  He certainly had no trouble with all the time the ball was in George's hands, West's hands, Hibbert's, or Hill's.  Nor have you contended my actual point, which was that Josh Smith's shooting and desire to be the one creating with the ball is no different than Stephenson's.

Stephenson is more effective with the ball in his hands. He's not the type of player that "needs" the ball at all times, but he is very ball dominant and thinking he'll take a backseat to Rondo is a stretch. Part of the problem in Indiana was that Hibbert and West felt the ball should've been going inside/out like it had in previous years. This didn't happened last year as Stephenson came into his own. This is further evidenced by Stephenson leading the Pacers in assists last year at 4.6 apg, while averaging 2.9 apg, and tied with West, the season prior.

  According to nba.com he isn't among the top 80 players in the league in either time of possession or touches per game. Not the most ball dominant player you'll see. He's good at creating his shot but he's  probably capable of playing off the ball, he did a lot before this year.

Rondo was 2nd in time of possession at 7.8 minutes in 33.6 mpg. Only 0.2 behind Wall despite playing 3 mpg less. So with the increase in minutes expected next year he'd likely jump to #1.

In front court touches per game, where it excludes the time of possession and when a pg bring up the ball, Rondo was 4th despite the lowered minutes. Stephenson was 68th.

So combining the amount of time they spend dominating the ball with the fact that Rondo is a poor shooter and Stephenson is streaky and average in that department, it's fair to say that the pairing would have difficulty co-existing.

This doesn't even take into account how their personalities would mesh.

  68th in front court possessions means that most teams have 2-3 players ahead of Lance in that category. He's slightly ahead of Bradley and Green n that category. I don't think that qualifies as "ball dominant".

68th in front court possessions puts him 6 spots behind Wade and 10 spots behind Love and ahead of Aldridge, Gay, and M Gasol. That number is only going to ascend as he continues to improve.

  Yes, but are players like Love, Aldridge and Gasol ball dominant?

In a halfcourt set, which is what this stat is tracking, the ball absolutely flows through them.

  So Lance has about 46 frontcourt touches a game. If Bradley played the same number of minutes he'd have 43 a game. Does the ball absolutely flow through him on offense? Is he ball dominant?

So if Bradley played with the same level of talent as Stephenson do you think the number would rise, remain even, or decrease?

Stephenson dominates the ball and it became more apparent later in the year and through the playoffs. He likes going 1 on 1 and often dribbles way too much trying to break his man down. Not coincidentally that moniker "Make him dance Lance" was made for exactly that.

Sometimes I think you argue just for the sake of arguing.

  According to you Bradley plays with the most ball dominant player in the league, I'm guessing you'd expect his touches to rise if he were on a different team.

Yeah, like the stats suggest Rondo was a very close second in time of possession to Wall despite playing 3 minutes a game less. Are you trying to insinuate that this is incorrect?

Rondo missing 52 games clearly helped Bradley's touches. Then Bradley was hurt when Rondo returned. The number of games those two actually played together was limited.

[BballTim]

Rose and Bill Simmons had a podcast and Simmons pitched Rose on his idea of Rondo to Charlotte. Rose said he wouldn't do it if he were Charlotte because it's a combustible situation. Rondo is a player that has the ball for 20 seconds of a possession, while Stephenson wants the ball in his hands too and neither is a good shooter.

Rose then added that he would like to see Rondo in Detroit and both agreed that a deal centered around Monroe and a #1 for Rondo would work for both teams.

Just interesting that the Rondo for Monroe deal that we've floated around was also mentioned by Rose. Love him or hate him, Rose does know the game and I respect his opinion.

Wow, that's pretty hilarious.

Jalen says the reason Charlotte wouldn't want Rondo is because their best perimeter player likes to set up other people and isn't a great shooter, but then immediately suggests Detroit, whose best player is Josh Smith.

The whole Rondo can't play with other shot creators thing that pops up from time to time is beyond ridiculous.  How does playing with Pierce and KG not completely null that argument?  I knew Jalen would make me laugh when I clicked on this thread.

1. No, he said it because Stephenson needs/wants the ball in his hands.

2. Rondo played with both KG and Pierce, but they were really good shooters and could excel at spotting up and playing off of Rondo. Stephenson isn't that type of player/shooter.

Stephenson is at his best with the ball in his hands (much like Pierce) (and on an IND team with no PG), that doesn't mean he needs the ball in his hands at all times, or that he wouldn't be better with the ball in Rondo's hands setting him up.

Stephenson is certainly no where near the level where the ball should be in his hands at the start of every possesion.  Wade is/was much closer to that level and averaged way more assists, but that doesn't mean he didn't work with LeBron (who is one of the most ball-dominant players in the league).

Nothing you've said gives evidence that Stephenson wouldn't be effective playing off Rondo.  He certainly had no trouble with all the time the ball was in George's hands, West's hands, Hibbert's, or Hill's.  Nor have you contended my actual point, which was that Josh Smith's shooting and desire to be the one creating with the ball is no different than Stephenson's.

Stephenson is more effective with the ball in his hands. He's not the type of player that "needs" the ball at all times, but he is very ball dominant and thinking he'll take a backseat to Rondo is a stretch. Part of the problem in Indiana was that Hibbert and West felt the ball should've been going inside/out like it had in previous years. This didn't happened last year as Stephenson came into his own. This is further evidenced by Stephenson leading the Pacers in assists last year at 4.6 apg, while averaging 2.9 apg, and tied with West, the season prior.

  According to nba.com he isn't among the top 80 players in the league in either time of possession or touches per game. Not the most ball dominant player you'll see. He's good at creating his shot but he's  probably capable of playing off the ball, he did a lot before this year.

Rondo was 2nd in time of possession at 7.8 minutes in 33.6 mpg. Only 0.2 behind Wall despite playing 3 mpg less. So with the increase in minutes expected next year he'd likely jump to #1.

In front court touches per game, where it excludes the time of possession and when a pg bring up the ball, Rondo was 4th despite the lowered minutes. Stephenson was 68th.

So combining the amount of time they spend dominating the ball with the fact that Rondo is a poor shooter and Stephenson is streaky and average in that department, it's fair to say that the pairing would have difficulty co-existing.

This doesn't even take into account how their personalities would mesh.

  68th in front court possessions means that most teams have 2-3 players ahead of Lance in that category. He's slightly ahead of Bradley and Green n that category. I don't think that qualifies as "ball dominant".

68th in front court possessions puts him 6 spots behind Wade and 10 spots behind Love and ahead of Aldridge, Gay, and M Gasol. That number is only going to ascend as he continues to improve.

  Yes, but are players like Love, Aldridge and Gasol ball dominant?

In a halfcourt set, which is what this stat is tracking, the ball absolutely flows through them.

  So Lance has about 46 frontcourt touches a game. If Bradley played the same number of minutes he'd have 43 a game. Does the ball absolutely flow through him on offense? Is he ball dominant?

So if Bradley played with the same level of talent as Stephenson do you think the number would rise, remain even, or decrease?

Stephenson dominates the ball and it became more apparent later in the year and through the playoffs. He likes going 1 on 1 and often dribbles way too much trying to break his man down. Not coincidentally that moniker "Make him dance Lance" was made for exactly that.

Sometimes I think you argue just for the sake of arguing.

  In terms of Stephenson, if you consider the number of front court touches he has, the number of possessions he's on the court for, and the fact that he must touch the ball more than once in at least a few possessions, you'd come to the conclusion that he probably only touches the ball on about 60% of the team's offensive possessions. Again, this doesn't scream "ball dominant" or "the ball flows through him on offense". It does at times, but it's not like he needs to have the ball in his hands all the time.

[BballTim]

Rose and Bill Simmons had a podcast and Simmons pitched Rose on his idea of Rondo to Charlotte. Rose said he wouldn't do it if he were Charlotte because it's a combustible situation. Rondo is a player that has the ball for 20 seconds of a possession, while Stephenson wants the ball in his hands too and neither is a good shooter.

Rose then added that he would like to see Rondo in Detroit and both agreed that a deal centered around Monroe and a #1 for Rondo would work for both teams.

Just interesting that the Rondo for Monroe deal that we've floated around was also mentioned by Rose. Love him or hate him, Rose does know the game and I respect his opinion.

Wow, that's pretty hilarious.

Jalen says the reason Charlotte wouldn't want Rondo is because their best perimeter player likes to set up other people and isn't a great shooter, but then immediately suggests Detroit, whose best player is Josh Smith.

The whole Rondo can't play with other shot creators thing that pops up from time to time is beyond ridiculous.  How does playing with Pierce and KG not completely null that argument?  I knew Jalen would make me laugh when I clicked on this thread.

1. No, he said it because Stephenson needs/wants the ball in his hands.

2. Rondo played with both KG and Pierce, but they were really good shooters and could excel at spotting up and playing off of Rondo. Stephenson isn't that type of player/shooter.

Stephenson is at his best with the ball in his hands (much like Pierce) (and on an IND team with no PG), that doesn't mean he needs the ball in his hands at all times, or that he wouldn't be better with the ball in Rondo's hands setting him up.

Stephenson is certainly no where near the level where the ball should be in his hands at the start of every possesion.  Wade is/was much closer to that level and averaged way more assists, but that doesn't mean he didn't work with LeBron (who is one of the most ball-dominant players in the league).

Nothing you've said gives evidence that Stephenson wouldn't be effective playing off Rondo.  He certainly had no trouble with all the time the ball was in George's hands, West's hands, Hibbert's, or Hill's.  Nor have you contended my actual point, which was that Josh Smith's shooting and desire to be the one creating with the ball is no different than Stephenson's.

Stephenson is more effective with the ball in his hands. He's not the type of player that "needs" the ball at all times, but he is very ball dominant and thinking he'll take a backseat to Rondo is a stretch. Part of the problem in Indiana was that Hibbert and West felt the ball should've been going inside/out like it had in previous years. This didn't happened last year as Stephenson came into his own. This is further evidenced by Stephenson leading the Pacers in assists last year at 4.6 apg, while averaging 2.9 apg, and tied with West, the season prior.

  According to nba.com he isn't among the top 80 players in the league in either time of possession or touches per game. Not the most ball dominant player you'll see. He's good at creating his shot but he's  probably capable of playing off the ball, he did a lot before this year.

Rondo was 2nd in time of possession at 7.8 minutes in 33.6 mpg. Only 0.2 behind Wall despite playing 3 mpg less. So with the increase in minutes expected next year he'd likely jump to #1.

In front court touches per game, where it excludes the time of possession and when a pg bring up the ball, Rondo was 4th despite the lowered minutes. Stephenson was 68th.

So combining the amount of time they spend dominating the ball with the fact that Rondo is a poor shooter and Stephenson is streaky and average in that department, it's fair to say that the pairing would have difficulty co-existing.

This doesn't even take into account how their personalities would mesh.

  68th in front court possessions means that most teams have 2-3 players ahead of Lance in that category. He's slightly ahead of Bradley and Green n that category. I don't think that qualifies as "ball dominant".

68th in front court possessions puts him 6 spots behind Wade and 10 spots behind Love and ahead of Aldridge, Gay, and M Gasol. That number is only going to ascend as he continues to improve.

  Yes, but are players like Love, Aldridge and Gasol ball dominant?

In a halfcourt set, which is what this stat is tracking, the ball absolutely flows through them.

  So Lance has about 46 frontcourt touches a game. If Bradley played the same number of minutes he'd have 43 a game. Does the ball absolutely flow through him on offense? Is he ball dominant?

So if Bradley played with the same level of talent as Stephenson do you think the number would rise, remain even, or decrease?

Stephenson dominates the ball and it became more apparent later in the year and through the playoffs. He likes going 1 on 1 and often dribbles way too much trying to break his man down. Not coincidentally that moniker "Make him dance Lance" was made for exactly that.

Sometimes I think you argue just for the sake of arguing.

  According to you Bradley plays with the most ball dominant player in the league, I'm guessing you'd expect his touches to rise if he were on a different team.

Yeah, like the stats suggest Rondo was a very close second in time of possession to Wall despite playing 3 minutes a game less. Are you trying to insinuate that this is incorrect?

  No, but the same stats that show that Rondo was 2nd in the league in time of possession show that Lance was 85th or so IIRC, so most nba teams probably had 3 players who possessed the ball more than Lance. The reason I brought up Avery was that you were claiming that the high number of front court touches Lance had somehow meant that he was ball dominant and the ball flowed through him on offense, but in reality his number of front court touches per minute was pretty similar to Avery or Green. The numbers don't really show what you claim they do.