BBD vs Chris Bosh

[Birdbrain]

I've never seen a player so underrated by his own fans.

  How about Rondo? He's a mediocre defender and it's very difficult for his teammates to score with him in a half court setting because he's such a liability offensively.

  Or so I've been told.

I wish you would have saved me from that comment.  I hope that was at least posted a few years ago.  Of course a few years ago we were having Powe vs BBD disagreements.  I saw Powe during the Cleveland game in his warm ups. 

[action781]

Are you saying that Baby could put up 20/10 on a crappy team; because it think that is where your argument falls apart. BBD is able to be effective because of the other weapons on the floor when he plays with the first unit. Last year when he was with the second unit he struggled to get his shots off.

No I am not saying that BBD would ever average 20/10 on any team( he simply is too short). I realize that Bosh is the better talent,but BBD gets the more out of his talent while Bosh struggles to contribute much if he isn't scoring. If BBD isn't scoring he is still taking charges,setting great picks and doing the dirty work and getting the crowd pumped up.

Tell Charles Barkley he was too short to average 20/10.  Baby isn't too short - he's not talented enough.

"Great" picks?  I don't think getting blown for illegal screens 5% of the time qualifies him as a great pick setter

Can you elaborate on the 5% comment?  I don't agree with your overall point but, I'm wondering what the 5% means in regards to your point.

I've never seen a player so 'underrated' by his own fans.

I pulled the % out of my you know where.  It seems that he gets called for an illegal screen once per game.  So I don't think he's a great pick setter when his picks end up turning the ball over to the other team.

You may say underrated.  I say calling him what he is: an undersized energy player who can fill a role off the bench.  It doesn't even make sense to compare him to Chris Bosh, because as overrated as Bosh is, Bosh in reality is still that much better than Baby in almost all facets of the game.  Taking charges is one of the only things I think of that Baby can do better (and I'm kind of disgusted by how easily the refs will call charges these days if the player knows how to sell it properly).

[BballTim]

Are you saying that Baby could put up 20/10 on a crappy team; because it think that is where your argument falls apart. BBD is able to be effective because of the other weapons on the floor when he plays with the first unit. Last year when he was with the second unit he struggled to get his shots off.

No I am not saying that BBD would ever average 20/10 on any team( he simply is too short). I realize that Bosh is the better talent,but BBD gets the more out of his talent while Bosh struggles to contribute much if he isn't scoring. If BBD isn't scoring he is still taking charges,setting great picks and doing the dirty work and getting the crowd pumped up.

Tell Charles Barkley he was too short to average 20/10.  Baby isn't too short - he's not talented enough.

"Great" picks?  I don't think getting blown for illegal screens 5% of the time qualifies him as a great pick setter

Can you elaborate on the 5% comment?  I don't agree with your overall point but, I'm wondering what the 5% means in regards to your point.

I've never seen a player so 'underrated' by his own fans.

I pulled the % out of my you know where.  It seems that he gets called for an illegal screen once per game.  So I don't think he's a great pick setter when his picks end up turning the ball over to the other team.

  Davis got called for 19 offensive fouls last season, which would include illegal picks and charges.

[action781]

Are you saying that Baby could put up 20/10 on a crappy team; because it think that is where your argument falls apart. BBD is able to be effective because of the other weapons on the floor when he plays with the first unit. Last year when he was with the second unit he struggled to get his shots off.

No I am not saying that BBD would ever average 20/10 on any team( he simply is too short). I realize that Bosh is the better talent,but BBD gets the more out of his talent while Bosh struggles to contribute much if he isn't scoring. If BBD isn't scoring he is still taking charges,setting great picks and doing the dirty work and getting the crowd pumped up.

Tell Charles Barkley he was too short to average 20/10.  Baby isn't too short - he's not talented enough.

"Great" picks?  I don't think getting blown for illegal screens 5% of the time qualifies him as a great pick setter

Can you elaborate on the 5% comment?  I don't agree with your overall point but, I'm wondering what the 5% means in regards to your point.

I've never seen a player so 'underrated' by his own fans.

I pulled the % out of my you know where.  It seems that he gets called for an illegal screen once per game.  So I don't think he's a great pick setter when his picks end up turning the ball over to the other team.

  Davis got called for 19 offensive fouls last season, which would include illegal picks and charges.

Thank you for looking that up - I'm bad/lazy at looking up irregular stats. 

But he only played 54 games and 933 minutes last season.  So that amounts to one offensive foul per 54 minutes.  Not exactly one per game.  Although I didn't state it, I don't think he set many illegal picks in those games when he saw 10 minutes of action, it was the games when he saw extended run that I felt I was always seeing an illegal screen set.

Maybe some of those were charges, what do you all think from watching him play?  I, personally, feel like I recall about 5 illegal screens called on him for every 1 charge.  Maybe more?  I don't know, nothing tangible here that I'm going by.

[Celtics4ever]

Rondo is not a mediocre defender and he is leading the league in assists,  BballTim.  Why don't you change your names to BlindTim would make more sense.  Yes, Rondo gambles sometimes and gets out of position but for each of those he comes up with a weird steal and score I 'd say.  In the playoffs in some series he was our best player on the court.

[Atzar]

Rondo is not a mediocre defender and he is leading the league in assists,  BballTim.  Why don't you change your names to BlindTim would make more sense.  Yes, Rondo gambles sometimes and gets out of position but for each of those he comes up with a weird steal and score I 'd say.  In the playoffs in some series he was our best player on the court.

You completely missed his point.  Go read his post again.

He was noting that Baby isn't the only player who frequently gets underrated by his own fans - some people talk about Rondo in the same way, understating the positives he brings while harping on the negatives.  

Next time you try flaming, make sure you have the story straight.

[barefacedmonk]

EDIT

[Celtics4ever]

I don't think that was flaming, missed point or not.  My bad Bballtim, sorry.  One statement like dude is blind is not flaming, Atzar.   Boy you peeps sure huddle the wagons when some disagrees with one of your buds.

However, I really don't think it was a good illustration.  Any one who devalues Rajon just because he doesn't have a jumper is a basketball fool.  He does play some of the most disruptive I have ever seen although its gambling, opportunist and in spurts.  His basketball IQ is phenomenal.   I recall peeps that liked Sebastian over him just because of the movie he was in.   I knew from the moment I saw Rondo that he had solid basketball IQ and a good motor and was superior every way to Telfair.  He isn't the perfect player by a long shot but he is more than servicable.  Why even give their comments weight in sarcasm.

BBD is a good player.   He is a defensive liability at times (against true bigs) and can't get off the floor well and is a mediocare rebounder.  That being said, I think him and Bosh are apples and oranges.  One is a high energy bench player who is playing very well right now another is a former all star who is having to change his game to fit with two ball hogs.  BBD would probably be a 15-7 if he started.  That is what he was when KG was out that year.   I have not seen a huge upswing in his skills.

Ainge doesn't draft ideal players.  He takes guys that often don't have a position that others wrote off that can play ball.   He does this often and he often looks like a genius in getting talent that everybody else wrote off because they were not atypical of the standard prototype of that player.  BBD is another example of a guy who was considered too short and too fat by the scouts.  Ainge saw a guy who can play.  Is he perfect, no?  But he can be productive in the right match ups.

[dpaps]

Are you saying that Baby could put up 20/10 on a crappy team; because it think that is where your argument falls apart. BBD is able to be effective because of the other weapons on the floor when he plays with the first unit. Last year when he was with the second unit he struggled to get his shots off.

No I am not saying that BBD would ever average 20/10 on any team( he simply is too short). I realize that Bosh is the better talent,but BBD gets the more out of his talent while Bosh struggles to contribute much if he isn't scoring. If BBD isn't scoring he is still taking charges,setting great picks and doing the dirty work and getting the crowd pumped up.

Tell Charles Barkley he was too short to average 20/10.  Baby isn't too short - he's not talented enough.

"Great" picks?  I don't think getting blown for illegal screens 5% of the time qualifies him as a great pick setter

I've never seen a player so 'underrated' by his own fans.

I definitely agree with this. Especially with casual Celtics fans, not the types you find on this board, but casual fans always hate on big baby, they have no idea just how good he really is.

[housecall]

Numbers are not the only aspect of a players' game that measures his ability and contribution unless you are comparing it for fantasy reasons only.

"Bosh is going to be a bust in Miami"...is that statement more for fantasy players only?I can't see how anyone can make that bold prediction after playing 6 games.

[Eddie20]

IMO... Bosh will be a bust in the way he fits on that team. He's always been a soft and finesse type player who shies away from contact. He's the type of player that will give you 25 ppg, but will give up about that much on the other end. He doesn't defend the basket at all and he's best defensively when he's on the perimeter using his athleticism to prevent penetration. In addition,  his post D is mediocre and definitely leaves much to be desired. Still, you would live with all that if he's going to be a big time and consistent scorer for you. The problem on the Heat is that he's now been regulated to the 3rd offensive option and quite simply, if he's not scoring he doesn't offer much else in way of the "little things" needed to win.

The Heat probably would've been a better team if they had used the money spent on Bosh to land a Boozer, or if they would've split it up to sign Hawyood and Blake to shore up their biggest holes. The problem is that Bosh is a big name and it would've been real hard to have that spectacle of a party with Blake dancing around the stage instead of Bosh.

[kozlodoev]

Are you saying that Baby could put up 20/10 on a crappy team; because it think that is where your argument falls apart. BBD is able to be effective because of the other weapons on the floor when he plays with the first unit. Last year when he was with the second unit he struggled to get his shots off.

No I am not saying that BBD would ever average 20/10 on any team( he simply is too short). I realize that Bosh is the better talent,but BBD gets the more out of his talent while Bosh struggles to contribute much if he isn't scoring. If BBD isn't scoring he is still taking charges,setting great picks and doing the dirty work and getting the crowd pumped up.

Tell Charles Barkley he was too short to average 20/10.  Baby isn't too short - he's not talented enough.

"Great" picks?  I don't think getting blown for illegal screens 5% of the time qualifies him as a great pick setter

Can you elaborate on the 5% comment?  I don't agree with your overall point but, I'm wondering what the 5% means in regards to your point.

I've never seen a player so 'underrated' by his own fans.

I pulled the % out of my you know where.  It seems that he gets called for an illegal screen once per game.  So I don't think he's a great pick setter when his picks end up turning the ball over to the other team.

You may say underrated.  I say calling him what he is: an undersized energy player who can fill a role off the bench.  It doesn't even make sense to compare him to Chris Bosh, because as overrated as Bosh is, Bosh in reality is still that much better than Baby in almost all facets of the game.  Taking charges is one of the only things I think of that Baby can do better (and I'm kind of disgusted by how easily the refs will call charges these days if the player knows how to sell it properly).

Kevin Garnett sets by far the most illegal screens on our team, and never gets called for them, so I wouldn't be resting my hat on this nail, really.

[BballTim]

Numbers are not the only aspect of a players' game that measures his ability and contribution unless you are comparing it for fantasy reasons only.

"Bosh is going to be a bust in Miami"...is that statement more for fantasy players only?I can't see how anyone can make that bold prediction after playing 6 games.

  When someone goes to play on a team with two players who are typically highest in the league for usage it's easy to predict a drop in his stats.

[BballTim]

I've never seen a player so underrated by his own fans.

  How about Rondo? He's a mediocre defender and it's very difficult for his teammates to score with him in a half court setting because he's such a liability offensively.

  Or so I've been told.

I wish you would have saved me from that comment.  I hope that was at least posted a few years ago. 

  Wasn't all from one post, but was all from this summer/fall.

[housecall]

Numbers are not the only aspect of a players' game that measures his ability and contribution unless you are comparing it for fantasy reasons only.

"Bosh is going to be a bust in Miami"...is that statement more for fantasy players only?I can't see how anyone can make that bold prediction after playing 6 games.

  When someone goes to play on a team with two players who are typically highest in the league for usage it's easy to predict a drop in his stats.

There is a big difference in drop in stats and bust.Its not rocket science to figure at least 1 of their three stars were going to take a hit in their stats but to say that means he is going to be a bust after 6 games sounds silly.

 Lebron James 2009-10 avg.29.7ppg.,this season so far he is only averaging 20.7,a(9)pt.dropoff after 6games this season but i wouldn't call him heading toward being a bust.