Author Topic: Kyrie > Rondo  (Read 54501 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2013, 10:25:53 PM »

Offline CelticG1

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4201
  • Tommy Points: 288
Tonight Kyrie for sure.

If you are picking a PG for the playoffs I'd take Rondo.

Irving is pretty amazing and scary though.

He can pretty much do anything on the court and is never fazed or rushed on anything. He was playing against Bradley for a decent amount of possessions and just took his time and made plays.

I'd take Kyrie over Rondo in the playoffs pretty much no question unless I had multiple elite scoring options for Rondo to pass to.

yeah well it's kind of a vague question to begin with.

If I'm starting a team from scratch I'll take a 20 year old irving.

Playoffs is kind of tricky. I dont think we do as well last year with Irving instead of Rondo but we'll never no.

Part of that is that Irving has played for a 5 win team the past 2 years.You obvioulsy see the incredible talent but the biggest stage he's been on is trying to not get last place in the league

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2013, 10:28:54 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1182
  • Tommy Points: 80


To be fair, I think Kyrie is behind only Paul, Westbrook, and Rose at the PG spot.  Already.  In a year or two I think he'll only be looking up at CP3.

p.s. watch out I think I hear BBallTim coming

Ha, this might be my favorite line in a post ever, TP.  I wish I could give multiple TPs.  I'm waiting for the dig at CP3's playoff record (or Kyrie's lack of a playoff record), ignoring the three Hall of Famers we won titles with.  Any minute now.

On the topic at hand, I am certainly willing to consider the possibility of Kyrie being superior to Rondo.  I haven't seen enough of him to tell, but his skill set seems to make his potential ceiling higher.

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2013, 10:30:48 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
He's only 20... kid is unreal.  I'd say more, but i've already said it dozens of times in other threads.  What he's doing at his age is ridiculous.

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2013, 10:34:55 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58537
  • Tommy Points: -25636
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley

Rondo is a better passer.

Agreed.

Quote
Rondo is better in the open court.

Disagree.  Kyrie is one of the best -- if not the best -- dribblers in the NBA, and he is better at attacking the basket.

Quote
Rondo is a better defender.

Agreed, although Irving has made huge strides in this area, to the point of ranking in the top-20% in points per possession allowed.  Kyrie has also been better in isolation defense.

Quote
Rondo is a better rebounder.

Agreed.  He grabs around 20% more rebounds.

Quote
Rondo can run a team offense better.

You would think so.  Cleveland's offense has been better than the Celtics' this year, though, despite having less talented players.

Quote
Irving is a better scorer and shooter.

Agreed.  Irving scores at about double the rate that Rondo does.  He's got an elite killer instinct when it comes to scoring.

If given my choice between the two players, both for this team and for any hypothetical team out there, I'd take Kyrie.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2013, 10:36:27 PM »

Offline dark_lord

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8808
  • Tommy Points: 1126
kyrie for the win

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2013, 10:40:54 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18699
  • Tommy Points: 1818
Always been a big fan of Kyrie. Would love him here.

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2013, 10:42:36 PM »

Offline Change

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6666
  • Tommy Points: 544
Imagine Kyrie on the Celtics.  :o

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2013, 10:43:41 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58537
  • Tommy Points: -25636
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Always been a big fan of Kyrie. Would love him here.

I thought Kyrie was going to be a bust.  He quickly proved me wrong.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2013, 10:49:41 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12749
  • Tommy Points: 1544
Kyrie is WAYYYYYY overrated

He's a more efficient Montae Ellis.

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2013, 10:52:09 PM »

Offline syfy9

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1873
  • Tommy Points: 291
  • We may as well put Tyrion in at center.
Kyrie is WAYYYYYY overrated

He's a more efficient Montae Ellis.


Well, if Monta Ellis was more efficient, he'd be a superstar.
I like Marcus Smart

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2013, 10:55:08 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6162
  • Tommy Points: 383
  • Jeff Green
Talk to me when he grabs 13 rebounds and averages more than that dreadful 5.3 assists.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2013, 10:56:07 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58537
  • Tommy Points: -25636
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Kyrie is WAYYYYYY overrated

He's a more efficient Montae Ellis.


Well, if Monta Ellis was more efficient, he'd be a superstar.

Yeah.  An efficient, team-oriented Monta Ellis would be a monster.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2013, 10:57:14 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12749
  • Tommy Points: 1544
Kyrie is WAYYYYYY overrated

He's a more efficient Montae Ellis.


Well, if Monta Ellis was more efficient, he'd be a superstar.

So you admit you think scoring is the only part of the game that matters?

I see...

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2013, 10:58:37 PM »

Offline CelticG1

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4201
  • Tommy Points: 288


To be fair, I think Kyrie is behind only Paul, Westbrook, and Rose at the PG spot.  Already.  In a year or two I think he'll only be looking up at CP3.

p.s. watch out I think I hear BBallTim coming

Ha, this might be my favorite line in a post ever, TP.  I wish I could give multiple TPs.  I'm waiting for the dig at CP3's playoff record (or Kyrie's lack of a playoff record), ignoring the three Hall of Famers we won titles with.  Any minute now.

On the topic at hand, I am certainly willing to consider the possibility of Kyrie being superior to Rondo.  I haven't seen enough of him to tell, but his skill set seems to make his potential ceiling higher.

Just a thing about Rondo. He won a championship with those 3 HOF's before he was even close to entering his prime.

When Rondo came into his own was probably the 2009 playoffs (while KG was injured) and the ensuing season after when the Celts made the finals.

Kg and Ray were both 34 at the time and Pierce was 32. They are HOF players but they were in their mid 30's (and have aged since then). I wouldn't consider Sheed or Shaq to be a HOF that played with Rondo either. Technically they are  (well maybe not Sheed)but Shaq could barely even run.

You might as well list other great players that played with us like JO, Michael Finley, Stephon Marbury, and Sam Cassell as well.

Sorry for the rant but it's just a pet peeve when people talk about Rondo playing with HOF's and thats why he has been successful when he pretty much had one year with them (maybe) at HOF level and it was before Rondo was even really good.

You think Chris Paul would rather have a 22 year old Blake Griffin or a 34 year old one?

I know id rather have a 22 year old KG

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2013, 11:00:22 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club

Rondo is a better passer.

Agreed.

Quote
Rondo is better in the open court.

Disagree.  Kyrie is one of the best -- if not the best -- dribblers in the NBA, and he is better at attacking the basket.

Quote
Rondo is a better defender.

Agreed, although Irving has made huge strides in this area, to the point of ranking in the top-20% in points per possession allowed.  Kyrie has also been better in isolation defense.

Quote
Rondo is a better rebounder.

Agreed.  He grabs around 20% more rebounds.

Quote
Rondo can run a team offense better.

You would think so.  Cleveland's offense has been better than the Celtics' this year, though, despite having less talented players.

Quote
Irving is a better scorer and shooter.

Agreed.  Irving scores at about double the rate that Rondo does.  He's got an elite killer instinct when it comes to scoring.

If given my choice between the two players, both for this team and for any hypothetical team out there, I'd take Kyrie.
Rondo runs a better team offense. His offense is more efficient and it relies on him so much less. Rondo's usage rate(21.2) is nine points lower than Irvings usage rate. Rondo's assist rate is 20 points higher than Irving's. To me this point to one guard who runs an offense and another who runs an offense geared to finding him the best shot.

For that reason, I feel Rondo runs the better team offense.

Also, as good a dribbler and penetrator as Irving is, Rondo is as good if not better, especially since he will look to include others and not look primarily for his offense, even when in the open court. Rondo is one of the fastest guys in the league and best dribblers. Irving is not at Rondo's level there. And isn't close to seeing the whole court the way Rondo does, who once again has some of the best court vision and passing ability, in both half court and open court opportunities.

Eventually Irving will surpass Rondo as a player. I might want him on my team if we were in a full rebuild, like Cleveland. But for this team, Rondo is much better.