Horford, Hayward and Consolidate Picks?

[GreenlyGreeny]

OKC just traded Danny Green for Al Horford and a pick.

Can we package our last two picks in the first-round and Hayward in a three-way with OKC and IND? Indiana dumps the salary of whomever to make it work and in return OKC gets a future pick from them and our late first-rounders. Indiana gets Hayward. We get back Horford and a future first-round pick from OKC’s treasure trove. Works for me.

[ederson]

DA last summer let Horford walk cause he di not want to pay him that much and knkw will trade Hayward plus pick for him? Maybe... If he wants to get fired

[GreenlyGreeny]

We clearly missed Big Al this year and it’s an improvement over Hayward. There are not many options to upgrade this off-season.

[Roy H.]

No, that contract is crazy.

[ederson]

We clearly missed Big Al this year and it’s an improvement over Hayward. There are not many options to upgrade this off-season.

Yes we missed the Boston AH but a year ago DA decided that AH and WHT he brings doe not worth the contract he wanted. There is no way DA makes a 180 turn and a year later, after a bad season, decides  that AH worths it and will trade GB and pick for it

There is zero chance this happens.

[Muzzy66]

We clearly missed Big Al this year and it’s an improvement over Hayward. There are not many options to upgrade this off-season.

Is he really an improvement over Hayward? 

Last season Hayward was actually very productive, averaging 17.5 pts, 6.7 reb, 4.1 ast and shot 50% / 38% / 85% despite being buried behind Tatum, Brown and Kemba (some would argue even Smart) in terms of scoring options.

In Horford's last season here he averaged 13.6 pts, 6.7 reb, 4.2 ast and he shot 53% / 36% / 82% and the offence pretty much ran through him any time it wasn't in Kyrie's hands. 

He was also 32 years old in his last season here.  He's clearly been declining slowly since around the 14/15 season (at age 29) and that decline seems to have accelerated rapidly the past couple of years - his averages (11.9 pts, 6.8 reb, 4.0 ast) and percentages (45% / 35% / 76%) last season were among the lowest overall of his career, and many will blame that on his fit in Philly but I honestly believe it's more then that.  Big men tend to drop of pretty strong once they get towards their mid 30s, and Horford will be 34 next season.  Watching him in Philly it seemed clear to me that the problem was not just role - he looked a step slower, and less effective in pretty much every way while he was on the court.

On top of all that he has upwards of 28M/year left on his contract for the next 3 years.  That contract is ALREADY one of the worst in the league, which is why Philly had to effectively pay OKC to take it.  The contract is only going to look worse as time goes on, and the last thing we want on the Celtics roster is a near $30M / year contract that is effectively un-movable.

Also I may be alone in this, but I really do not like the attitude / personality Horford brings.  Yes he's a nice guy and a respected veteran, but I really believe that he is a bit TOO nice and a bit TOO laid back.  The past few years it has seemed like every 2nd or 3rd game he just completely fails to show up, and so often while he is on the court it seems like he needs somebody to light a firecracker up his backside to get him going.   More often then not he plays with no sense of passion / fire, and for all the praise he gets for his vet leadership he showed precious little of that during his time here as far as I could tell.  When guys needed a pep talk I rarely ever saw Horford walking over.  It seemed to fall to guys like Smart, Morris and Rozier to try to motivate teammates. 

Nah - far as I'm concerned Horford's time as a Celtic are long gone.  It wasn't bad while it lasted and he definitely brought his strengths for most of his tenure, but he's cooked.  At this point he is a solid 6th man / decent starter at best. I'm honestly not convinced that he would be an upgrade over Theiss at this point in their careers.   

P.s.
Don't get me wrong, Horford could offer something to the team for sure, and I would be totally fine with the idea of having Horford starting for the Celtics or coming off the bench as a 6th man - if he was on a reasonable contract in maybe the $10M - $12M/year range.  At his current price though, no way in hell.  I'd absolutely rather keep Hayward.

[gouki88]

We clearly missed Big Al this year and it’s an improvement over Hayward. There are not many options to upgrade this off-season.

No we did not miss him and no he is not an improvement over Hayward

[SparzWizard]

Philly unloaded Horford's bad contract. They'll be dangerous again.

[Moranis]

We clearly missed Big Al this year and it’s an improvement over Hayward. There are not many options to upgrade this off-season.

No we did not miss him and no he is not an improvement over Hayward

I think we missed him, but he is nowhere near an improvement over Hayward.  Though if we had Al still we probably don't have Kemba and that would be a bad swap every single time.  You'd much rather have Kemba.  Now maybe Ainge could have figured out how to keep both, but then the luxury tax would be astronomical for a team that probably still doesn't beat Miami and almost certainly wouldn't have beaten the Lakers anyway.

[GreenEnvy]

We clearly missed Big Al this year and it’s an improvement over Hayward. There are not many options to upgrade this off-season.

I disagree. We didn’t miss him, and he’s not better than Hayward.

[ozgod]

That Horford contract is going to look really bad in another year, worse than it is already. Presti clearly decided he would rather keep building his warchest of picks, he has 16 firsts now and almost as many 2nds. So he was willing to take on Horford's albatross.

[keevsnick]

That Horford contract is going to look really bad in another year, worse than it is already. Presti clearly decided he would rather keep building his warchest of picks, he has 16 firsts now and almost as many 2nds. So he was willing to take on Horford's albatross.

On the other hand I think its possible Horford still actually has something left an playing in OKC can rehabilitate his value.

[Muzzy66]

Philly unloaded Horford's bad contract. They'll be dangerous again.

You think so?  I honestly don't.

IMHO Horford was not Philly's problem last season IMHO, nor was his contract  And it wouldn't have been this season either.  Don't get me wrong, it wouldn't have helped - but they already have Simmons, Embiid and Tobias making over $90 Million combined next season which means even without Horford they have close to zero financial flexibility.  And in the end he was coming off the bench most the time, so he wasn't having any major negative impact on the court either.

No, Philly's issue remains what it always has been - Embiid, Simmons and Harris. 

Embiid's health
Embiid is capable of dominating on an MVP level, but he doesn't do it consistently because he can't stay on the court.  This is partly due to his injury history (minute / game restrictions) and partly due to consistently poor conditioning.  The 76ers are lucky to get half a game at peak production. 

Embiid's immaturity
Embiid is a bit of an egotistical clown, and seems a tad obsessed with himself and the idea that he is god of the 76ers (and perhaps of all mankind).  Maybe it's because of this that he seems incapable of taking the game or his opponents seriously enough.  He's always out there tweeting smart-alec comments, talking himself up, talking opponents down, showing off for cameras, etc.  But when the game's on the line he too often fails to back it up, frequently choking in the big moments.  He can dominate large portions of games, but he doesn't have the play style or mentality of a closer. 

Simmons lack of leadership
Simmons has no problems with conditioning or work ethic, but he his lack of an outside game makes it too easy for opponents to take him out of games offensively (by clogging the paint) and he's proven time and time again that he struggles under pressure - tending to get sloppy with bad turnovers/decisions at crucial points in the game.  He might have the potential to be a leader one day, but right now he still seems to lack the confidence and experience - and like Embiid he may never have the play style or the mentality to be a closer, which a championship team needs.

Incompatibility of Embiid and Simmons
The other issue is that Simmons and Embiid simply don't mesh well.  Embiid's greatest strength is his ability to use his size, strength and skill in the paint to dominate offensively.  Simmon's greatest strength is his ability to his length, athleticism and point guard skills to control the offence and dominate in transition.  Both of those are offensive skills that depend on having the ball.  I don't see how Philly gets around this.  Even if one of them develops into a good outside shooter who can play off the ball, you still wouldn't want to use them that way because you are failing to utilise their greatest strength.  So as long as one is on the court, he's holding back the other - this holds the Sixers back from reaching their potential.   

Tobias Harris just isn't special
Tobias is a nice player - and he may even be good enough to be a 3rd option on a top tier team as far as pure talent.  But he's getting paid max money, and he's just not a max player.  He also doesn't really offer Philly anything standout.  He's not an elite scorer, he's not a deadly shooter, hes not an elite defender or rebounder or playmaker, he doesn't really get to the line much, he's not overwhelmingly efficient, and he's not a clutch shot-maker.  He can do a little bit of everything, but he rarely seems to be giving the Sixers what the need at any given time.  I'm not sure he fits well on a team like the Sixers, who's two main stars have such glaring holes in their games. 

Lack of a closer
Simply put, the Sixers do not have a closer.  There is no guy on their team who they can consistently depend on to make the big play and hit the big shot when they need it.  Jimmy Butler was that guy for one season, which is why the Sixers came so close to pushing for a title when he was there.  The next closest thing to a closer that they had may well be JJ Reddick (who was a deadeye shooter) but he's also gone.  They need somebody who can hit that big shot, and they don't have it.

[gouki88]

Philly unloaded Horford's bad contract. They'll be dangerous again.

Lol. Feel like we’ve heard this every year about Philly. If they weren’t dangerous with Jimmy Butler & Reddick they sure as hell aren’t now

[BoulderMike]

Harry Giles