Is Rondo's Inconsistency Due to Stubborness?

[cordobes]

As for Doc's solution to it, that's easy. He always stresses pushing the ball up against those teams and trying to force the issue before the other team has a chance to set up their defense. It is the easiest way to beat that form of defense. The other ios to simply have a good shooting night from Pierce and Allen. Once that happens the Rondo-centric defense goes out the window for the opposition. Lastly, have Rondo take and make the shot.

I'll have to disagree with your use of the word "easy" in there. Coaches always want to run, but it's easier said than done. We're not a running team, we're not built to do that. More importantly, it's much more difficult to run in the playoffs. And frankly, when it counts you win games playing good half-court basketball, it's been proved season after season - for example, in the last one. Finally, a common trait of all good teams is that they have good transition defence - we do, the Spurs do, the Cavs, the Lakers, even the Hawks.... it's a feature most title contenders in the last 2 decades or so shared.

Well, a good shooting night from Pierce and Allen is great but I don't know how is that "a solution" for this problem. The point is exactly that Rondo's flaw makes it harder for Pierce and Allen to have good shooting nights.

Of course the solution is having Rondo taking and making the shot, but that's exactly what the OP is saying. It's already bad he's a bad jump-shooter, when he allows that to affect his decision-making it becomes a huge liability. I've seen Rondo improving his jump-shot this season (although I can't agree with the Tony Parker analogies, Rondo isn't even close to the shooter Parker was in his 3rd season) and although he's still mediocre for a guard and highly inconsistent, it only makes things worse if he refuses to take open shots from the free-throw line with 10 seconds to go. That cripples an offence too much. 

[nickagneta]

I'm not saying be a running team, but to puish the pace and Rondo has done it well versus that type of defense on many occassions. If Rondo doesn't walk the ball up the court, allow the defense to get set and initiates the offense with 20 seconds or more on the clock, then it's difficult for that defense to employee the type of defense they want to. It doesn't have to be fast break, just a faster pace. When Rondo walks the ball up the court and players get to their assigned positions on the play and the play starts at the 16 seconds left on the clock mark, then the Celtics play right into the opposing teams hands.

Second, just because teams sag off Rondo and packs it in inside, doesn't mean that the Celtics running their offense and running plays that set up outside shots won't work. And if they work and those outside shots start to fall, then eventually that type of defense will need to adjust to come out to defend the outside shooter and will open things for Rondo to drive and dish.

A Ray Allen play running around double screens and hitting a corner three, the 1-3 high post switch with Pierce, the 1-4 high post pick and pop, and several other plays will and can be very effective against this type of defense and if KG, Pierce and Allen are hitting that outside shot, the defense will expand openiong up Perk down low and lanes for Pierce and Rondo to drive and for KG's alley oop play.


Sagging off Rondo doesn't necessarily always make it more difficult for the rest of the team's offense. As long as the offense pushes the pace and then runs the plays instead of Rondo ground pounding the ball looking for something then at the last second tries to find someone, the Celtics will be fine.

And of course I know that the OP is talking about that it's important for Rondo to be able to hit that shot. All I'm saying is that if the Celtics run the offense and the best option after running it is that Rondo shot then another way of stopping that offense is for Rondo to hit that shot a few times early on. Once he does, that defense will adjust. But that is the least likely and effective way to break that defense because Rondo's shot is the weakest part of the Celtics' offense.

I don't think he's stubborn about it, just that he knows, like the defense does that he shouldn't be taking that shot if the Celtics truly want to be successful.  At least this year anyway.

[Chief]

Rondo reminds me so much of Gary Payton in the early days. Payton could not shoot to save his life for the first few years but was great at most everything else. By about year 5 or 6 Payton became a decent shooter. I think in 2 or 3 years we'll be saying the same about Rondo.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoga01.html

[cordobes]

I'm not saying be a running team, but to puish the pace and Rondo has done it well versus that type of defense on many occassions.

And on some others he hasn't. If you're expecting him to do it well every time, you're into a huge shock. It won't happen.

When Rondo walks the ball up the court and players get to their assigned positions on the play and the play starts at the 16 seconds left on the clock mark, then the Celtics play right into the opposing teams hands.

Every single NBA team prefers to face a defence which is not set, to get a good look on the primary or secondary break. Sometimes it's not possible, it's not something you can just say "we're going to do this whatever our opponents have in mind".

Second, just because teams sag off Rondo and packs it in inside, doesn't mean that the Celtics running their offense and running plays that set up outside shots won't work.

It's the last time I'm going to say this. I've repeated it dozens of times and I'm getting tired: nobody said that, nobody argued that. Of course the half-court offence can still work with teams sagging off Rondo. The argument is only that "it's more difficult to work".

And if they work and those outside shots start to fall, then eventually that type of defense will need to adjust to come out to defend the outside shooter and will open things for Rondo to drive and dish.

I don't understand this part. Since when teams stop defending the outside shooter? Teams don't sag off Ray and Pierce, giving them better outside shots. Their defenders generally don't sink more than usual. If anything, it's the opposite: see how Wally never, not for a single play, helped off Ray Allen in last season playoffs. Why? Because they had Delonte (Rondo's defender) roaming free and doubling everybody.

Sagging off Rondo doesn't necessarily always make it more difficult for the rest of the team's offense.

Yes it does. The fact that the team can overcome that additional difficulty (sometimes easier, sometimes struggling more), doesn't mean that it wasn't more difficult than the  alternative (facing that same team and defence without the luxury of having one defender who can roam around).

As long as the offense pushes the pace and then runs the plays instead of Rondo ground pounding the ball looking for something then at the last second tries to find someone, the Celtics will be fine.

But wgat about when it's not possible to push the pace? What happens when the other team is doing a good job with the transition D?

But that is the least likely and effective way to break that defense because Rondo's shot is the weakest part of the Celtics' offense.

It's not.

[cordobes]

Right now he looks to pass, first, drive and pass, second, drive and shoot, third, and finally shoot the open mid range to long shot, last. That's his game and it isn't going to change anytime this year.

When he does that, everything is nice (we'd like him to hit more shots, but we can survive that).

However, what sometimes happens is that:
he looks to pass, first.
drive and pass, second.
drive and shoot, third.
shoot the open mid range to long shot, last. Oh wait, he passed the open shot... he tried to force a pass or a drive that isn't there, turning over the ball! Oh, he kept the ball, but now with 4 seconds to go, he passed the ball to a guarded teammate who will try to bail him out with a desperation shot, heavily contested! Oh, he didn't find a pass at all and now he's forced to jack off a much worse shot than the one he god just 7 seconds ago!

That's what the OP was talking about, I believe.