CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: IDreamCeltics on September 20, 2018, 03:43:27 PM
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ESPN has ranked Kyrie Irving 20th overall among active NBA players.
20. Kyrie Irving
Charles Krupa/AP
Boston Celtics | G
Previous rank: 25
2018-19 projected RPM wins: 6.9
As a young star, Irving charted as high as No. 8 in NBArank based on his immense potential. Now he's settled in as a top-20 player because he has averaged only 63 games played in his seven seasons -- and his defensive effort is not a lengthy visitor. But at age 26, with a full return to health and the possibility of playoff heroics ahead, Uncle Drew can rise again. -- Royce Webb
source: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24668157/nbarank-2018-19-11-20-best-players-season
It's nice to see the Celtics have a top 20 guy. Your thoughts?
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I thought Kyrie should have been higher. I think he is definitely better than Simmons, Towns, Draymond and Oladipo. I see Kyrie around top 15.
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if he was a Laker he d be about 10 th
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How Ben Simmons / KA Towns are above KI makes no sense to me. Simmons was really exposed in the playoffs. I don't think he should be considered a top 20 player. Towns as well.
Oladipo seems to be questionable as well at 15, but to me he seems to have proven more in last year's playoffs than Simmons / Towns.
I dunno, I stopped going to ESPN's web site and reading their stories a couple of years ago. It feels like hype not quality. I suppose any top whatever list is going to spark outrage, I mean that is the point right?
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I didn't realize they had Simmons and KAT above Kyrie... that does seem egregious. I suspect they're taking potential growth into account.
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How Ben Simmons / KA Towns are above KI makes no sense to me. Simmons was really exposed in the playoffs. I don't think he should be considered a top 20 player. Towns as well.
Oladipo seems to be questionable as well at 15, but to me he seems to have proven more in last year's playoffs than Simmons / Towns.
I dunno, I stopped going to ESPN's web site and reading their stories a couple of years ago. It feels like hype not quality. I suppose any top whatever list is going to spark outrage, I mean that is the point right?
Two of the past 3 seasons Irving has played 60 games or less. Simmons played 81 last season. Towns has played 82 games each of his 1st 3 seasons. If Oladipo is close offensively, he gets the nod for his defense.
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How Ben Simmons / KA Towns are above KI makes no sense to me. Simmons was really exposed in the playoffs. I don't think he should be considered a top 20 player. Towns as well.
Oladipo seems to be questionable as well at 15, but to me he seems to have proven more in last year's playoffs than Simmons / Towns.
I dunno, I stopped going to ESPN's web site and reading their stories a couple of years ago. It feels like hype not quality. I suppose any top whatever list is going to spark outrage, I mean that is the point right?
Two of the past 3 seasons Irving has played 60 games or less. Simmons played 81 last season. Towns has played 82 games each of his 1st 3 seasons. If Oladipo is close offensively, he gets the nod for his defense.
Well I thought the list was who is the best player, not who missed the least number of games.
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I didn't realize they had Simmons and KAT above Kyrie... that does seem egregious. I suspect they're taking potential growth into account.
Yep. Chances are that those two will improve more than Irving over the course of the season.
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That’s actually a pretty rough ranking for a guy like Kyrie who is already so popular. As others have said, I think the injuries have hurt his ranking quite a bit. Not that I would have agreed with it, but I suspect he would have been around #10 if he had been healthy through the playoffs last season; he just has that kind of notoriety and flash.
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How Ben Simmons / KA Towns are above KI makes no sense to me. Simmons was really exposed in the playoffs. I don't think he should be considered a top 20 player. Towns as well.
Oladipo seems to be questionable as well at 15, but to me he seems to have proven more in last year's playoffs than Simmons / Towns.
I dunno, I stopped going to ESPN's web site and reading their stories a couple of years ago. It feels like hype not quality. I suppose any top whatever list is going to spark outrage, I mean that is the point right?
Two of the past 3 seasons Irving has played 60 games or less. Simmons played 81 last season. Towns has played 82 games each of his 1st 3 seasons. If Oladipo is close offensively, he gets the nod for his defense.
Well I thought the list was who is the best player, not who missed the least number of games.
Esp coming from a Sixer fan that was hilarious.
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How Ben Simmons / KA Towns are above KI makes no sense to me. Simmons was really exposed in the playoffs. I don't think he should be considered a top 20 player. Towns as well.
Oladipo seems to be questionable as well at 15, but to me he seems to have proven more in last year's playoffs than Simmons / Towns.
I dunno, I stopped going to ESPN's web site and reading their stories a couple of years ago. It feels like hype not quality. I suppose any top whatever list is going to spark outrage, I mean that is the point right?
Two of the past 3 seasons Irving has played 60 games or less. Simmons played 81 last season. Towns has played 82 games each of his 1st 3 seasons. If Oladipo is close offensively, he gets the nod for his defense.
Well I thought the list was who is the best player, not who missed the least number of games.
Esp coming from a Sixer fan that was hilarious.
Joel Embiid's 94 games in 3 seasons hasn't really impacted his rankings
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How Ben Simmons / KA Towns are above KI makes no sense to me. Simmons was really exposed in the playoffs. I don't think he should be considered a top 20 player. Towns as well.
Oladipo seems to be questionable as well at 15, but to me he seems to have proven more in last year's playoffs than Simmons / Towns.
I dunno, I stopped going to ESPN's web site and reading their stories a couple of years ago. It feels like hype not quality. I suppose any top whatever list is going to spark outrage, I mean that is the point right?
Two of the past 3 seasons Irving has played 60 games or less. Simmons played 81 last season. Towns has played 82 games each of his 1st 3 seasons. If Oladipo is close offensively, he gets the nod for his defense.
Strange you mention Kyrie's injuries but not Simmons missing the entire 2016-17 season or, in other words, playing in less than half the games he should have thus far in his career.
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I'm not sure I'd call ranking Kyrie as the 20th best player is giving him his due, but whatever, rankings like these don't mean squat in the grand scheme of things.
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How Ben Simmons / KA Towns are above KI makes no sense to me. Simmons was really exposed in the playoffs. I don't think he should be considered a top 20 player. Towns as well.
Oladipo seems to be questionable as well at 15, but to me he seems to have proven more in last year's playoffs than Simmons / Towns.
I dunno, I stopped going to ESPN's web site and reading their stories a couple of years ago. It feels like hype not quality. I suppose any top whatever list is going to spark outrage, I mean that is the point right?
Two of the past 3 seasons Irving has played 60 games or less. Simmons played 81 last season. Towns has played 82 games each of his 1st 3 seasons. If Oladipo is close offensively, he gets the nod for his defense.
Well I thought the list was who is the best player, not who missed the least number of games.
Esp coming from a Sixer fan that was hilarious.
Joel Embiid's 94 games in 3 seasons hasn't really impacted his rankings
Yeah that's why I found it funny that the Sixers guy reasoned Kyrie's injuries when their players have the same issues.
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How Ben Simmons / KA Towns are above KI makes no sense to me. Simmons was really exposed in the playoffs. I don't think he should be considered a top 20 player. Towns as well.
Oladipo seems to be questionable as well at 15, but to me he seems to have proven more in last year's playoffs than Simmons / Towns.
I dunno, I stopped going to ESPN's web site and reading their stories a couple of years ago. It feels like hype not quality. I suppose any top whatever list is going to spark outrage, I mean that is the point right?
This sounds about right to me.
IMO, Simmons is wildly overrated. That doesn't mean he doesn't still have high potential, but you make a good point about him being exposed in the playoffs.
Towns too has become a bit overrated. His defense is lacking. I thought he had a higher trajectory after winning the Skills Competition a few years ago, but he doesn't seem to impact winning as much as one would expect for a top-15 player.
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How Ben Simmons / KA Towns are above KI makes no sense to me. Simmons was really exposed in the playoffs. I don't think he should be considered a top 20 player. Towns as well.
Oladipo seems to be questionable as well at 15, but to me he seems to have proven more in last year's playoffs than Simmons / Towns.
I dunno, I stopped going to ESPN's web site and reading their stories a couple of years ago. It feels like hype not quality. I suppose any top whatever list is going to spark outrage, I mean that is the point right?
Two of the past 3 seasons Irving has played 60 games or less. Simmons played 81 last season. Towns has played 82 games each of his 1st 3 seasons. If Oladipo is close offensively, he gets the nod for his defense.
Well I thought the list was who is the best player, not who missed the least number of games.
Esp coming from a Sixer fan that was hilarious.
Joel Embiid's 94 games in 3 seasons hasn't really impacted his rankings
Yeah that's why I found it funny that the Sixers guy reasoned Kyrie's injuries when their players have the same issues.
Hey, other than missing literally an entire season, what injury issues has Simmons had? ::)
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I bet Kyrie finally got the sleep he deserved after reading this important list.
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These ESPN rankings are kind of weird. They're projections so there's more speculation involved than normal but they also seem to be ranking based on how involved a player is going to be so Kyrie is lower than he might otherwise be because there's the idea that the Celtics have so many options, Kyrie isn't going to put up the numbers he did the last 2 seasons.
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? He has been overrated his entire career. Hopefully he chooses to buy into the team this year, share the ball with the more promising and efficient scoring Tatum, and avoid hurting himself for more than 60 games. Will be nice to move on from him if/when Ainge decides that Boston sports fans care more about winning than branding.
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? He has been overrated his entire career. Hopefully he chooses to buy into the team this year, share the ball with the more promising and efficient scoring Tatum, and avoid hurting himself for more than 60 games. Will be nice to move on from him if/when Ainge decides that Boston sports fans care more about winning than branding.
LOL
Never change tar, never change. Someone has to be the resident troll.
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? He has been overrated his entire career. Hopefully he chooses to buy into the team this year, share the ball with the more promising and efficient scoring Tatum, and avoid hurting himself for more than 60 games. Will be nice to move on from him if/when Ainge decides that Boston sports fans care more about winning than branding.
Yep, caring about business and winning basketball games is mutually exclusive. Guys like Michael Jordan and Lebron James care a ton about their branding and they just never won much in the NBA. Kyrie will never win a ring, I'm sure, because he cares so much about his branding.
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He was already recognized as a perennial all-star...close to a top 20 designation
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Good - and deservedly so.
A healthy Kyrie (and GH) will be like bulls in a China shop - with the NBA teams in the upcoming season being the China shop.
There will be a good amount of breakage going on with our opponents.
This team is READY - and deserving of ANY accolades that comes its way this season.
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How is Victor Oladipo or Simmons ranked higher than Kyrie? Kyrie has the best handles in the entire league he is a big time scorer and clutch player. Simmons is none of the above... Simmons looks the part but he is not a gamer.
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By the way, does tarheel just hate Kyrie because he is a Dukie?
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? He has been overrated his entire career. Hopefully he chooses to buy into the team this year, share the ball with the more promising and efficient scoring Tatum, and avoid hurting himself for more than 60 games. Will be nice to move on from him if/when Ainge decides that Boston sports fans care more about winning than branding.
LOL
Never change tar, never change. Someone has to be the resident troll.
I don't intend to incite anyone and it's rare that my comments are acknowledged, though I do want to express the beliefs that I've maintained and supported. I'm also feeling more validated as time goes on -- several well-respected posters have expressed similar thoughts about him. His contribution to wins, health, locker room presence, self-focused attitude, place among other PGs and truly elite players, etc. have all been questioned. And I appreciate objectivity among our fanbase.
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? He has been overrated his entire career. Hopefully he chooses to buy into the team this year, share the ball with the more promising and efficient scoring Tatum, and avoid hurting himself for more than 60 games. Will be nice to move on from him if/when Ainge decides that Boston sports fans care more about winning than branding.
Yep, caring about business and winning basketball games is mutually exclusive. Guys like Michael Jordan and Lebron James care a ton about their branding and they just never won much in the NBA. Kyrie will never win a ring, I'm sure, because he cares so much about his branding.
Guys like LeBron and Jordan are gifted enough to do both, though both were/are obsessed with winning. Irving isn't that talented and would be more valuable to the Celtics if he focused his energy on the team and winning. LeBron also dragged Kyrie to a ring, and could have done the same with countless other guys against a hurt Curry and suspended Draymond.
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We can't just magically choose the PG of our dreams, we have what we have. Actually, we've upgraded from a few years ago.
Is he the best PG in the NBA...no.
Is he enough to lead us to the promised land? if he stays healthy, I feel he can.
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We can't just magically choose the PG of our dreams, we have what we have. Actually, we've upgraded from a few years ago.
Is he the best PG in the NBA...no.
Is he enough to lead us to the promised land? if he stays healthy, I feel he can.
I hope he can but it is a good thing Danny has timed Terry Rozier to be renewed next season. Ii is not impossible that Kyrie plays himself out of a future with Celtics next season and moves on. I feel lucky that we have a player who has proven he is ready for the keys as our PG.
As good as Kyrie is, he must prove he can lead a talented team to the finals and better yet win. If we fall short with him leading a healthy team then maybe he not the Celtics PG of the future as we have hoped. His volume shooting may be his achilles heel if he goes cold.
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I look forward to Kyrie singing a max contract with the Celtics next summer and watching him lead the team for the foreseeable future. It will be a joy to watch such an immensely talented, stand up guy wear the Celtics uniform and bring glory to the franchise.
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We can't just magically choose the PG of our dreams, we have what we have. Actually, we've upgraded from a few years ago.
Is he the best PG in the NBA...no.
Is he enough to lead us to the promised land? if he stays healthy, I feel he can.
I hope he can but it is a good thing Danny has timed Terry Rozier to be renewed next season. Ii is not impossible that Kyrie plays himself out of a future with Celtics next season and moves on. I feel lucky that we have a player who has proven he is ready for the keys as our PG.
As good as Kyrie is, he must prove he can lead a talented team to the finals and better yet win. If we fall short with him leading a healthy team then maybe he not the Celtics PG of the future as we have hoped. His volume shooting may be his achilles heel if he goes cold.
You’re making it sound as if Rozier has a body of work where we should feel comfortable handing the keys to him over Kyrie. We shouldn’t because he hasn’t (yet). KI is miles ahead of him
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He's top 10. The guy won a ring and was playing all time clutch level doing it. Not many guys, ever, can get to that level. We just saw a injured version last year. And even injured, he was pretty darn good.
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I look forward to Kyrie singing a max contract with the Celtics next summer and watching him lead the team for the foreseeable future. It will be a joy to watch such an immensely talented, stand up guy wear the Celtics uniform and bring glory to the franchise.
Lol. Now we're really trolling.
I understand Celtics fans rooting for Kyrie because of his contribution to wins, brand, or (sort of) alma mater, though only among those that don't follow and/or care about a player's character. I have no judgement about those fans or believe those that do care are "better," but I don't understand the unwillingness or inability to acknowledge his actions over the years. I've always known you to be a solid, reasonable and well-informed guy, so I'm curious to know how you reconcile all of the indicators that he's a self-centered guy and poor teammate. His character and attitude issues are well-documented --the detailed reports of how he acted in Cleveland, bashing of his former team and coach , decision to opt for surgery due to discomfort (I called that it was a 'staph' infection several months before it was reported too [TP, tar]), and choosing not to support his teammates for Game 7 because he didn't want to be seen with bandages on his nose (stated by Ainge in an interview). Can you at least acknowledge that his attitude and past behavior just... suck?
As a fan that values player character and team cohesion above all else, I truly felt spoiled by having Rondo and IT4 fill the PG position that I hold near and dear to my heart. We were blessed with two guys that played through significant physical injury and personal tragedy, showed a hell-bent desire to win, and generally refrained from bashing the organization when they when a lot of other players would have. I'm grateful to have had those guys in Green and can't wait to root for the next gritty and overachieving PG to lead our crew. Again, I respect your appreciation for Kyrie, but I can't understand the inability or unwillingness of others to appreciate those that aren't happy with Irving at the helm.
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I look forward to Kyrie singing a max contract with the Celtics next summer and watching him lead the team for the foreseeable future. It will be a joy to watch such an immensely talented, stand up guy wear the Celtics uniform and bring glory to the franchise.
Lol. Now we're really trolling.
The audacity to say this about something posted in a Kyrie thread is astounding
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Let's respect site rules and not call anyone trolls, even if only in jest
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? He has been overrated his entire career. Hopefully he chooses to buy into the team this year, share the ball with the more promising and efficient scoring Tatum, and avoid hurting himself for more than 60 games. Will be nice to move on from him if/when Ainge decides that Boston sports fans care more about winning than branding.
LOL
Never change tar, never change. Someone has to be the resident troll.
I don't intend to incite anyone and it's rare that my comments are acknowledged, though I do want to express the beliefs that I've maintained and supported. I'm also feeling more validated as time goes on -- several well-respected posters have expressed similar thoughts about him. His contribution to wins, health, locker room presence, self-focused attitude, place among other PGs and truly elite players, etc. have all been questioned. And I appreciate objectivity among our fanbase.
Tar, you have to see how calling for objectively while simultaneously saying he's not talented or doesn't care about winning or saying that he has narcissistic personality disorder (making uninformed declarations about someone's mental health is dangerous and shouldn't be the crux of an argument of why people shouldn't like him, btw) may read biased to some posters. You're completely disregarding that his coach and teammates love him, he was on the bench in the playoffs more than Gordon Hayward, and Danny Ainge has decided that he's worth keeping around. Show some of the objectivity you're asking for.
Moving on... I don't see that anyone's posted the Jackie Mac interview here yet, but it's a good read: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24756416/kyrie-irving-talks-boston-celtics
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We can't just magically choose the PG of our dreams, we have what we have. Actually, we've upgraded from a few years ago.
Is he the best PG in the NBA...no.
Is he enough to lead us to the promised land? if he stays healthy, I feel he can.
I hope he can but it is a good thing Danny has timed Terry Rozier to be renewed next season. Ii is not impossible that Kyrie plays himself out of a future with Celtics next season and moves on. I feel lucky that we have a player who has proven he is ready for the keys as our PG.
As good as Kyrie is, he must prove he can lead a talented team to the finals and better yet win. If we fall short with him leading a healthy team then maybe he not the Celtics PG of the future as we have hoped. His volume shooting may be his achilles heel if he goes cold.
You’re making it sound as if Rozier has a body of work where we should feel comfortable handing the keys to him over Kyrie. We shouldn’t because he hasn’t (yet). KI is miles ahead of him
That was not my intention. I look at Rozier as a good fall back plan. Not as good as Kyrie obviously, but serviceable if we are left with no PG for any reason involving a Kyrie departure. This team was really good last year under Rozier and now has Kyrie and Hayward added back into the starting 5.
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I look forward to Kyrie singing a max contract with the Celtics next summer and watching him lead the team for the foreseeable future. It will be a joy to watch such an immensely talented, stand up guy wear the Celtics uniform and bring glory to the franchise.
Lol. Now we're really trolling.
I understand Celtics fans rooting for Kyrie because of his contribution to wins, brand, or (sort of) alma mater, though only among those that don't follow and/or care about a player's character. I have no judgement about those fans or believe those that do care are "better," but I don't understand the unwillingness or inability to acknowledge his actions over the years. I've always known you to be a solid, reasonable and well-informed guy, so I'm curious to know how you reconcile all of the indicators that he's a self-centered guy and poor teammate. His character and attitude issues are well-documented --the detailed reports of how he acted in Cleveland, bashing of his former team and coach , decision to opt for surgery due to discomfort (I called that it was a 'staph' infection several months before it was reported too [TP, tar]), and choosing not to support his teammates for Game 7 because he didn't want to be seen with bandages on his nose (stated by Ainge in an interview). Can you at least acknowledge that his attitude and past behavior just... suck?
As a fan that values player character and team cohesion above all else, I truly felt spoiled by having Rondo and IT4 fill the PG position that I hold near and dear to my heart. We were blessed with two guys that played through significant physical injury and personal tragedy, showed a hell-bent desire to win, and generally refrained from bashing the organization when they when a lot of other players would have. I'm grateful to have had those guys in Green and can't wait to root for the next gritty and overachieving PG to lead our crew. Again, I respect your appreciation for Kyrie, but I can't understand the inability or unwillingness of others to appreciate those that aren't happy with Irving at the helm.
Nothing against you but that's some nice selective memory you have and it's really astonishing! Rondo, the same guy that attempted to assault his coach, a guy notorious for lording his bball IQ over his coaches and teammates at every stop?? If rondo is as great as you say then why on earth has he hopped over the league with all his talent?
I've already talked about how people closed their eyes to the things IT4 said, because they liked him. He made waves in Phoenix and didn't stop talking the media his entire time there. He came here and threw CBS and his teammates under the bus when things didn't go well. The same guy who had clothes made and wore them DURING the season in reference to money. That is a move LBJ would make, self promotion to the highest level, instead of worrying about the team. If kyrie made clothes always pertaining to getting paid You would have lost your mind. I know that because people, probably you, cry about him basically giving "no comment" answers when asked about his future! Went to Cavs and promptly got on everyone's nerves and made the fans feel like he didn't like them but constantly talking about Boston fans. Who does that when you go to another team and needing to integrate yourself? He helped disrupt that team with his ME attitude, but of course you'll blame LBJ and his teammates/coaches, while talking out the side of your mouth about the Kyrie situation.
You have no proof that kyrie is a bad teammate, the players and the team say totally different. He has constantly and consistently praised the situation he is in (people close their ears). You may find players that say he was standoffish and to himself but I can show you guys that day the opposite. Voted a guy that people would like to play with most by players on USA team. The players know the inside dealings, unlike us... he must not be too bad of a person!
Just tell the truth, you don't like Kyrie because of who he isn't, because you can't point to anything he has actually said or done! I can definitely point to things CS have said that point to the opposite of your narrative!
I'd take Rondo and it4 back in the right situation but I'm not going to pretend that they were amazing people (basketball related).
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Little Mountain is going to be sniffing top 10 at the end of next season - with GH not too far behind him.
So looking forward to next season. So many things aligning for this time, FINALLY.
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Regarding not being at game 7, that surgery was scheduled well before anyone knew the Celtics were going to be in the ECF finals, nevermind making it to game 7 which just so happened to coincide with the surgery date. Surgeons schedule non emergency surgeries well out in advance, sometimes a month or two into the future.
If Irving decided to pull out of the surgery, there is a really good chance he may have had to re-schedule the surgery 2 months later and his recuperation might have effected being ready for the start of this season. Which is more important, cheering on teamates and being at game 7 or being 100% heathy for 2018-2019?
Besides, there was not one player, coach or any person on management that had even a slight bit of problem with it. Painting Kyrie not being on the bench f
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? He has been overrated his entire career. Hopefully he chooses to buy into the team this year, share the ball with the more promising and efficient scoring Tatum, and avoid hurting himself for more than 60 games. Will be nice to move on from him if/when Ainge decides that Boston sports fans care more about winning than branding.
Yep, caring about business and winning basketball games is mutually exclusive. Guys like Michael Jordan and Lebron James care a ton about their branding and they just never won much in the NBA. Kyrie will never win a ring, I'm sure, because he cares so much about his branding.
Guys like LeBron and Jordan are gifted enough to do both, though both were/are obsessed with winning. Irving isn't that talented and would be more valuable to the Celtics if he focused his energy on the team and winning. LeBron also dragged Kyrie to a ring, and could have done the same with countless other guys against a hurt Curry and suspended Draymond.
There is zero evidence that he doesn't do that.
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I look forward to Kyrie singing a max contract with the Celtics next summer and watching him lead the team for the foreseeable future. It will be a joy to watch such an immensely talented, stand up guy wear the Celtics uniform and bring glory to the franchise.
Lol. Now we're really trolling.
I understand Celtics fans rooting for Kyrie because of his contribution to wins, brand, or (sort of) alma mater, though only among those that don't follow and/or care about a player's character. I have no judgement about those fans or believe those that do care are "better," but I don't understand the unwillingness or inability to acknowledge his actions over the years. I've always known you to be a solid, reasonable and well-informed guy, so I'm curious to know how you reconcile all of the indicators that he's a self-centered guy and poor teammate. His character and attitude issues are well-documented --the detailed reports of how he acted in Cleveland, bashing of his former team and coach , decision to opt for surgery due to discomfort (I called that it was a 'staph' infection several months before it was reported too [TP, tar]), and choosing not to support his teammates for Game 7 because he didn't want to be seen with bandages on his nose (stated by Ainge in an interview). Can you at least acknowledge that his attitude and past behavior just... suck?
As a fan that values player character and team cohesion above all else, I truly felt spoiled by having Rondo and IT4 fill the PG position that I hold near and dear to my heart. We were blessed with two guys that played through significant physical injury and personal tragedy, showed a hell-bent desire to win, and generally refrained from bashing the organization when they when a lot of other players would have. I'm grateful to have had those guys in Green and can't wait to root for the next gritty and overachieving PG to lead our crew. Again, I respect your appreciation for Kyrie, but I can't understand the inability or unwillingness of others to appreciate those that aren't happy with Irving at the helm.
Nothing against you but that's some nice selective memory you have and it's really astonishing! Rondo, the same guy that attempted to assault his coach, a guy notorious for lording his bball IQ over his coaches and teammates at every stop?? If rondo is as great as you say then why on earth has he hopped over the league with all his talent?
I've already talked about how people closed their eyes to the things IT4 said, because they liked him. He made waves in Phoenix and didn't stop talking the media his entire time there. He came here and threw CBS and his teammates under the bus when things didn't go well. The same guy who had clothes made and wore them DURING the season in reference to money. That is a move LBJ would make, self promotion to the highest level, instead of worrying about the team. If kyrie made clothes always pertaining to getting paid You would have lost your mind. I know that because people, probably you, cry about him basically giving "no comment" answers when asked about his future! Went to Cavs and promptly got on everyone's nerves and made the fans feel like he didn't like them but constantly talking about Boston fans. Who does that when you go to another team and needing to integrate yourself? He helped disrupt that team with his ME attitude, but of course you'll blame LBJ and his teammates/coaches, while talking out the side of your mouth about the Kyrie situation.
You have no proof that kyrie is a bad teammate, the players and the team say totally different. He has constantly and consistently praised the situation he is in (people close their ears). You may find players that say he was standoffish and to himself but I can show you guys that day the opposite. Voted a guy that people would like to play with most by players on USA team. The players know the inside dealings, unlike us... he must not be too bad of a person!
Just tell the truth, you don't like Kyrie because of who he isn't, because you can't point to anything he has actually said or done! I can definitely point to things CS have said that point to the opposite of your narrative!
I'd take Rondo and it4 back in the right situation but I'm not going to pretend that they were amazing people (basketball related).
I can only give 1 TP at a time, but know that I would give 100 if I could ;D