CelticsStrong
Around the League => The Draft => Topic started by: KG Living Legend on March 22, 2017, 12:06:40 AM
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Whats to like about Ayton? Well he's Seven feet with a massive 7'5" Wingspan, he's already 243 pounds. He's pretty jacked but what I like is that he's still shredded. Hope he gains weight slowly.
Not super athletic, but runs very well, and he's quick off his feet which is huge. He's from the Bahamas, still pretty raw, relies on his gifts. Nice looking jumper, good paint protector. Lazy at times.
https://youtu.be/ElSbCyXR__s
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Isn't he 7'2?
Edit: Sorry I was wrong
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I like Ayton alot.
Is he more or less athletic than Karl-Anthony Towns?
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I like Ayton alot.
Is he more or less athletic than Karl-Anthony Towns?
More athletic less skilled.
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He's also never done any real weights in gym before because he didn't want to stunt his growth (his words), so some actual weight training will make him massive.
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Edit: double post.
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(UPDATE) I'm adding the red/blue scrimmage, which includes dunk contest....44" vertical video is here as well but is a seperate video. Ayton has had ?? marks on his motivation offensively. I've been scouting him since his soph year and he does have issues being passive offensively ( not defensively) in big games....mostly not using his natural talents and shooting abilities to score. In this scrimmage he had 21 points and 9 rebs but showed his shooting touch. BTW he looks absolutely ripped. New Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7tqOZ0TiQE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7tqOZ0TiQE)
Never lifted weights before college and as a hs soph recorded 28.5" no step and 34.5" max vertical tested at UA camp. Biggest thing to remember is that he is freakishly long: 7'5.5" wingspan and 9'4.5'' standing reach....both of which could increase if he goes to the combine.
This is a video of him taking off from one foot and getting a 44'' max vertical. I know he's not taking a couple steps and going off 2 feet but it atleast shows he is a very strong 1 foot jumper and that can translate to better first step and speed. IMO I like 1 foot jumpers more.
Here is the youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeBhoVeFhT4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeBhoVeFhT4)
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Very impressive especially with his size.. Guy seems gigantic
So far in the preseason, the Lakers are 1-3. If you multiply that for 82 games, its 20.5 wins lol
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Very impressive especially with his size.. Guy seems gigantic
So far in the preseason, the Lakers are 1-3. If you multiply that for 82 games, its 20.5 wins lol
And they haven't even played any of the good teams in the West. They are going to get pounded in the West.
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Very impressive especially with his size.. Guy seems gigantic
So far in the preseason, the Lakers are 1-3. If you multiply that for 82 games, its 20.5 wins lol
And they haven't even played any of the good teams in the West. They are going to get pounded in the West.
Hopefully, they get pounded into submitting the second overall pick.
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Very impressive especially with his size.. Guy seems gigantic
So far in the preseason, the Lakers are 1-3. If you multiply that for 82 games, its 20.5 wins lol
And they haven't even played any of the good teams in the West. They are going to get pounded in the West.
Hopefully, they get pounded into submitting the second overall pick.
I hope dude. B. Lopez goes down even for part of the season then they are even more screwed than now.
Kuzma is playing nice but he's just a rook and they will have to figure out how to incorporate Randle/Nance and even Ingram.
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This guy is my clear #3 behind Bagley and Doncic. Has all the tools and then some more
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Yeesh. He is certainly really big and can jump really high.
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I've heard some concerns about his effort at times but he looks like he could be a legit center in the league. He's got a great combo of size and skill. If he shoots the three a little more consistently and plays hard on D, he's going to be very good.
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I've heard some concerns about his effort at times but he looks like he could be a legit center in the league. He's got a great combo of size and skill. If he shoots the three a little more consistently and plays hard on D, he's going to be very good.
TP to me favorite DOCTOR.
Agree almost 100%. Ya he def needs to be more aggressive offensively in games that matter....like in college this year. He does pretty consistently well defensively even at the Hoop Summit, but offensively is is the part of the game where he must impose his will more to have a balanced game.
Myles Turner does not shoot the 3 much but stretches the floor and he could end up being more like that. BTW I can't bring up Myles Turner anymore or I may faint again.
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HOnestly any of the top 5 if this draft would be great for our future. I really do think the Lakers will do worse than Brooklyn but we are going to need the ping pong balls to go our way if the pick is to convey. I can see the Lakers having the 4/5th best odds come lotto time, a chance to jump up but most importantly it must not get bumped down.
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I love that he runs like a deer in the open court. His movements seem like he is 6'8 to me. He is very graceful for a man of his stature. Just not very refined, and lacks effort. If we end up at like 3, he is definitely the pick to me.
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Solid running jump. This is the guy with the biggest potential but motor and work ethic has been his knock. Maybe he catches the training and practice fever, but I doubt he has the competitive drive unfortunately. I'd still want him if there is a shot as he should be an elite big man regardless.
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https://youtu.be/6mYd6Y78jpY
Something that I'm not sure how I feel about him is how soft he dunks it, rarely in this vid does he even hang on the rim. On the one hand I think he'd need to go up stronger in the NBA but on the other he could be being coached to dunk softly and save his body long term.
Of all the top 5 I feel I have the worst read on Ayton. Looking forward to the NCAA season to start up before I formulate to much of an opinion on him.
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Shows nice athleticism, but nowhere close to a 44" leap. If you slow the clip down and stop it at his peak, his feet are at the crotch level of the guy holding the measuring stick. Unless that guy is enormous, he's displaying a vertical in the 30's, not the 40's.
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That's only his born talent and is far from enough, Attitude is a must to reach the potential and he might not have it, i am low on him until he proves otherwise
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7tqOZ0TiQE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7tqOZ0TiQE)
Here is the video. His motor looks good, his jumper looks good, and he looks ripped
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I've seen a 44" vert, and that is not what it looks like. He has closer to a 34" vert.
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He dropped 31 pts in that first game. Looking good so far
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lets tank.
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lets tank.
LET'S NOT, we are the Celtics, we don't do that crap. LA is tanking for us.
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I've seen a 44" vert, and that is not what it looks like. He has closer to a 34" vert.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=OeBhoVeFhT4
He's basically at the top of the backboard. That's a 44" vert whether your eye test agrees or not
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Ayton is the guy I could see rising to #2 or #1. If he clears up his motor issues and shows he has a motor, he has essentially no glaring weakness after that.
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If the pick conveys, and Donic, Bagley and Porter are gone already, interesting to see if Danny would take Ayton or Bamba..
Ayton has that crazy athleticism and outside shooting that we seem to love these days, but Bamba could be a sneaky good pick with his extremely elite footwork and rebounding..
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Ayton 19 pts / 12 reb
https://youtu.be/0xCPS0KtyYE
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Ayton 19 pts / 12 reb
https://youtu.be/0xCPS0KtyYE
Ugh really wish this Lakers Pick would convey but it likely won't.
So many great big-men in this draft... :'(
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QMn52maTVV8
He did it again. 19/13
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Impressive motor and mid-range game. His length also gives opposing teams problems.
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Impressive motor and mid-range game. His length also gives opposing teams problems.
agree. He’s great to watch
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18 pts 10 rebounds
https://youtu.be/eMsrIImwCxk
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Ayton reminds me a lot of Embiid. This guy has the potential to be virtually unguardable. Ridiculous frame, and he has crazy range. No doubt he's the #1 pick
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Ayton reminds me a lot of Embiid. This guy has the potential to be virtually unguardable. Ridiculous frame, and he has crazy range. No doubt he's the #1 pick
Porter and Bagley are the most hyped up prospect in this class. Tatum got overshadowed last year because of the Fultz hype.
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Ayton reminds me a lot of Embiid. This guy has the potential to be virtually unguardable. Ridiculous frame, and he has crazy range. No doubt he's the #1 pick
Porter and Bagley are the most hyped up prospect in this class. Tatum got overshadowed last year because of the Fultz hype.
porter is out for season with back problems. He will probably slide in the draft
Barley is more raw than ayton
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Tatum got overshadowed last year because of the Fultz hype.
Which is why you should not drink the Kool-Aid on Draft Hype.
One of my favorite examples who was hyped who really only had one good Nike game, then hid for a year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/exumda01.html
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DeAndre Ayton vs UNLV
28 Points, 10 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 3 Blocks
https://youtu.be/d3pp6PShLJc
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I'm kind of obsessed with the idea of Deandre Ayton shadowing Al Horford, one of the smartest players in basketball, for 2 years and then stepping into the starting lineup when Horford's contract is up (and maybe Al would take a discount and a bench role by that time).
I need to stop thinking about it, though, the odds being what they are.
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I'm kind of obsessed with the idea of Deandre Ayton shadowing Al Horford, one of the smartest players in basketball, for 2 years and then stepping into the starting lineup when Horford's contract is up (and maybe Al would take a discount and a bench role by that time).
I need to stop thinking about it, though, the odds being what they are.
I’d be obsessed with that except that I think Al will still be a better player and more deserving starter than Ayton by the time Horford’s contract is up. I also think young bigs need a lot of court time to practice being the lead communicator on defense, and so Ayton would not as well-served by a 15 minute apprenticeship every night.
That said, Ayton is the freshman who’s most impressed me so far this year. I thought he was overhyped because he was tall and athletic, but I’m really impressed at some of his skills that indicate more maturity than your typical young big, specifically a pretty low foul rate and a very low turnover rate given his usage. Curious to see if that continues through conference play, when he’ll consistently face more difficult competition, as well as seeing teams multiple times who are familiar with Arizona’s offensive and defensive sets. But the early returns have converted me.
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I'm starting to really like this kid more and more.
The shooting, the low post game, the mobility for his size. He's oozing massive potential. And in a division with Joel Embiid, he'll be a great piece to have to counter him.
Let's hope the Lakers does their job in giving us the #2 pick.
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I'm kind of obsessed with the idea of Deandre Ayton shadowing Al Horford, one of the smartest players in basketball, for 2 years and then stepping into the starting lineup when Horford's contract is up (and maybe Al would take a discount and a bench role by that time).
I need to stop thinking about it, though, the odds being what they are.
Exactly my thoughts as well. TP!
Ayton is the number 1 reason I'm still kind of sad we traded the Brooklyn pick. To put it another way, I'd rather have Ayton than Kyrie. If the pick ends up in the top 2-3 and Ayton is still available, I'll be gutted. Fortunately, the odds of that happening are pretty slim right now. 8)
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I'm kind of obsessed with the idea of Deandre Ayton shadowing Al Horford, one of the smartest players in basketball, for 2 years and then stepping into the starting lineup when Horford's contract is up (and maybe Al would take a discount and a bench role by that time).
I need to stop thinking about it, though, the odds being what they are.
Exactly my thoughts as well. TP!
Ayton is the number 1 reason I'm still kind of sad we traded the Brooklyn pick. To put it another way, I'd rather have Ayton than Kyrie. If the pick ends up in the top 2-3 and Ayton is still available, I'll be gutted. Fortunately, the odds of that happening are pretty slim right now. 8)
Most people used the logic "Kyrie will be better than anyone selected using the 2018 Nets Pick" since they assumed the pick would land outside Top-6, but if that pick lands Top-4.. I highly doubt that. :(
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I hope Ayton does extremely well, so once we get that 2nd pick, whoever picks first goes after Ayton instead of Bagley lol.
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I'm kind of obsessed with the idea of Deandre Ayton shadowing Al Horford, one of the smartest players in basketball, for 2 years and then stepping into the starting lineup when Horford's contract is up (and maybe Al would take a discount and a bench role by that time).
I need to stop thinking about it, though, the odds being what they are.
I’d be obsessed with that except that I think Al will still be a better player and more deserving starter than Ayton by the time Horford’s contract is up. I also think young bigs need a lot of court time to practice being the lead communicator on defense, and so Ayton would not as well-served by a 15 minute apprenticeship every night.
That said, Ayton is the freshman who’s most impressed me so far this year. I thought he was overhyped because he was tall and athletic, but I’m really impressed at some of his skills that indicate more maturity than your typical young big, specifically a pretty low foul rate and a very low turnover rate given his usage. Curious to see if that continues through conference play, when he’ll consistently face more difficult competition, as well as seeing teams multiple times who are familiar with Arizona’s offensive and defensive sets. But the early returns have converted me.
If we are lucky enough for it to be an issue, I'd expect Ayton would get around 15-18 minutes as Al's backup and another 10 minutes or so alongside him.
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I hope Ayton does extremely well, so once we get that 2nd pick, whoever picks first goes after Ayton instead of Bagley lol.
Alternatively we could pick 3rd again in order to select the best player in the draft — Luka Doncic. :)
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I hope Ayton does extremely well, so once we get that 2nd pick, whoever picks first goes after Ayton instead of Bagley lol.
Alternatively we could pick 3rd again in order to select the best player in the draft — Luka Doncic. :)
I like that thinking👍😁
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I hear criticisms of Doncic and I wonder if people have even watched him. He has very good lateral quickness and plenty of length. No reason he can't be a good defender.
His game is essentially without flaws. I think he has a higher ceiling than either of the big men, and I'd love for the Celts to get either of them as well.
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I hear criticisms of Doncic and I wonder if people have even watched him. He has very good lateral quickness and plenty of length. No reason he can't be a good defender.
His game is essentially without flaws. I think he has a higher ceiling than either of the big men, and I'd love for the Celts to get either of them as well.
the flaw that doncic haters bring up is he lacks a bit of athleticism. I disagree with those who think that. Even if it were true, his strengths outweigh the weaknesses
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DeAndre Ayton vs UNLV
28 Points, 10 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 3 Blocks
https://youtu.be/d3pp6PShLJc
What you miss in the highlights is that Brandon McCoy goes for 33 and 10, 13-17 shooting. He's same age and size as Ayton, mocked mid first round by Tankathon. Gotta play some D DA.
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DeAndre Ayton vs UNLV
28 Points, 10 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 3 Blocks
https://youtu.be/d3pp6PShLJc
What you miss in the highlights is that Brandon McCoy goes for 33 and 10, 13-17 shooting. He's same age and size as Ayton, mocked mid first round by Tankathon. Gotta play some D DA.
I havent sat down to watch the game yet so Im not going to comment on the particulars. I will say this, Those two know each other very well. They were teammates on PSA Cardinals. They have practiced against each other often. As a back to the basket player Ayton is still raw and so is his man D there all things that can get better.
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If you watch the UNLV game, you realize just how great a prospect Ayton is. McCoy is a nice prospect, but Ayton is far more athletic, bigger, quicker, smoother, just all around better than a guy who might also be a lottery pick.
It's probably too much to hope for, but wow if we could get Ayton. I could envision him being a bigger, better version of what Al is for us right now.
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If you watch the UNLV game, you realize just how great a prospect Ayton is. McCoy is a nice prospect, but Ayton is far more athletic, bigger, quicker, smoother, just all around better than a guy who might also be a lottery pick.
It's probably too much to hope for, but wow if we could get Ayton. I could envision him being a bigger, better version of what Al is for us right now.
Im not sure if this was directed at me or not but I have seen play 8 times at least before he got to AZ. I dont see the Al thing at all. Horford has always been a smart player. High IQ. Ayton is a run jump guy who has never been coached til this year. He is more of a less refined Towns than Horford.
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Ayton reminds me of Patrick Ewing = size, skill, athleticism, so-so BBIQ
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DeAndre Ayton vs UNLV
28 Points, 10 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 3 Blocks
https://youtu.be/d3pp6PShLJc
What you miss in the highlights is that Brandon McCoy goes for 33 and 10, 13-17 shooting. He's same age and size as Ayton, mocked mid first round by Tankathon. Gotta play some D DA.
I havent sat down to watch the game yet so Im not going to comment on the particulars. I will say this, Those two know each other very well. They were teammates on PSA Cardinals. They have practiced against each other often. As a back to the basket player Ayton is still raw and so is his man D there all things that can get better.
Where can you watch the game? I don't see it on YouTube or Google video search.
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Ayton reminds me of Patrick Ewing = size, skill, athleticism, so-so BBIQ
I’ll take that!
I’ll just add even though maybe not ideal for a Stevens team with a so-so BBIQ that is still a tremendous projection, and at the very least a great trade asset if we wish to go in another direction.
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DeAndre Ayton vs UNLV
28 Points, 10 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 3 Blocks
https://youtu.be/d3pp6PShLJc
What you miss in the highlights is that Brandon McCoy goes for 33 and 10, 13-17 shooting. He's same age and size as Ayton, mocked mid first round by Tankathon. Gotta play some D DA.
I havent sat down to watch the game yet so Im not going to comment on the particulars. I will say this, Those two know each other very well. They were teammates on PSA Cardinals. They have practiced against each other often. As a back to the basket player Ayton is still raw and so is his man D there all things that can get better.
Where can you watch the game? I don't see it on YouTube or Google video search.
I have the game on DVR. Having watched him now 3 times since he has been at AZ (You can watch his game from last night on ESPN) I will probably wait a few weeks to watch it. I dont want to flood my eval with too many early season games. Not much has changed with him so far other than he is not spending as much time at the 3pt line as he has in the past.
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DeAndre Ayton vs UNLV
28 Points, 10 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 3 Blocks
https://youtu.be/d3pp6PShLJc
What you miss in the highlights is that Brandon McCoy goes for 33 and 10, 13-17 shooting. He's same age and size as Ayton, mocked mid first round by Tankathon. Gotta play some D DA.
I havent sat down to watch the game yet so Im not going to comment on the particulars. I will say this, Those two know each other very well. They were teammates on PSA Cardinals. They have practiced against each other often. As a back to the basket player Ayton is still raw and so is his man D there all things that can get better.
Where can you watch the game? I don't see it on YouTube or Google video search.
I have the game on DVR. Having watched him now 3 times since he has been at AZ (You can watch his game from last night on ESPN) I will probably wait a few weeks to watch it. I dont want to flood my eval with too many early season games. Not much has changed with him so far other than he is not spending as much time at the 3pt line as he has in the past.
Thanks, A&M vs Arizona, Robert Williams vs Ayton- should be good.
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DeAndre Ayton vs UNLV
28 Points, 10 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 3 Blocks
https://youtu.be/d3pp6PShLJc
What you miss in the highlights is that Brandon McCoy goes for 33 and 10, 13-17 shooting. He's same age and size as Ayton, mocked mid first round by Tankathon. Gotta play some D DA.
I havent sat down to watch the game yet so Im not going to comment on the particulars. I will say this, Those two know each other very well. They were teammates on PSA Cardinals. They have practiced against each other often. As a back to the basket player Ayton is still raw and so is his man D there all things that can get better.
Where can you watch the game? I don't see it on YouTube or Google video search.
I have the game on DVR. Having watched him now 3 times since he has been at AZ (You can watch his game from last night on ESPN) I will probably wait a few weeks to watch it. I dont want to flood my eval with too many early season games. Not much has changed with him so far other than he is not spending as much time at the 3pt line as he has in the past.
Thanks, A&M vs Arizona, Robert Williams vs Ayton- should be good.
NP. Depending on how much time you have or how much work you really want to do on him, I would go back and watch his HS games before you watch the A&M or any of his other college games. Gives you an idea on growth of the player, problems within a system, how he plays with other talented players.
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DeAndre Ayton vs UNLV
28 Points, 10 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 3 Blocks
https://youtu.be/d3pp6PShLJc
What you miss in the highlights is that Brandon McCoy goes for 33 and 10, 13-17 shooting. He's same age and size as Ayton, mocked mid first round by Tankathon. Gotta play some D DA.
I havent sat down to watch the game yet so Im not going to comment on the particulars. I will say this, Those two know each other very well. They were teammates on PSA Cardinals. They have practiced against each other often. As a back to the basket player Ayton is still raw and so is his man D there all things that can get better.
Where can you watch the game? I don't see it on YouTube or Google video search.
I have the game on DVR. Having watched him now 3 times since he has been at AZ (You can watch his game from last night on ESPN) I will probably wait a few weeks to watch it. I dont want to flood my eval with too many early season games. Not much has changed with him so far other than he is not spending as much time at the 3pt line as he has in the past.
Thanks, A&M vs Arizona, Robert Williams vs Ayton- should be good.
NP. Depending on how much time you have or how much work you really want to do on him, I would go back and watch his HS games before you watch the A&M or any of his other college games. Gives you an idea on growth of the player, problems within a system, how he plays with other talented players.
TP, thanks. Can I find full HS games on Youtube? Any recommendations on what to search beyond 'DeAndre Ayton full game high school' to find the best content for scouting purposes?
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DeAndre Ayton vs UNLV
28 Points, 10 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 3 Blocks
https://youtu.be/d3pp6PShLJc
What you miss in the highlights is that Brandon McCoy goes for 33 and 10, 13-17 shooting. He's same age and size as Ayton, mocked mid first round by Tankathon. Gotta play some D DA.
I havent sat down to watch the game yet so Im not going to comment on the particulars. I will say this, Those two know each other very well. They were teammates on PSA Cardinals. They have practiced against each other often. As a back to the basket player Ayton is still raw and so is his man D there all things that can get better.
Where can you watch the game? I don't see it on YouTube or Google video search.
I have the game on DVR. Having watched him now 3 times since he has been at AZ (You can watch his game from last night on ESPN) I will probably wait a few weeks to watch it. I dont want to flood my eval with too many early season games. Not much has changed with him so far other than he is not spending as much time at the 3pt line as he has in the past.
Thanks, A&M vs Arizona, Robert Williams vs Ayton- should be good.
NP. Depending on how much time you have or how much work you really want to do on him, I would go back and watch his HS games before you watch the A&M or any of his other college games. Gives you an idea on growth of the player, problems within a system, how he plays with other talented players.
TP, thanks. Can I find full HS games on Youtube? Any recommendations on what to search beyond 'DeAndre Ayton full game high school' to find the best content for scouting purposes?
Yes look for any games over the last 2 years that say PSA Cardinals. Look up the 2016 Nike Hoop Summit. Look up 2016 Elite 24. Look up Hillcrest vs Westtown 2017. If you can dig into ESPN they might have a few of his games including the ones I mentioned. I will try and think of a few more but those should give you a baseline of the player before you see what he has done at AZ.
At least that's how I look at players that Im really interested in.
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DeAndre Ayton vs UNLV
28 Points, 10 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 3 Blocks
https://youtu.be/d3pp6PShLJc
What you miss in the highlights is that Brandon McCoy goes for 33 and 10, 13-17 shooting. He's same age and size as Ayton, mocked mid first round by Tankathon. Gotta play some D DA.
I havent sat down to watch the game yet so Im not going to comment on the particulars. I will say this, Those two know each other very well. They were teammates on PSA Cardinals. They have practiced against each other often. As a back to the basket player Ayton is still raw and so is his man D there all things that can get better.
Where can you watch the game? I don't see it on YouTube or Google video search.
I have the game on DVR. Having watched him now 3 times since he has been at AZ (You can watch his game from last night on ESPN) I will probably wait a few weeks to watch it. I dont want to flood my eval with too many early season games. Not much has changed with him so far other than he is not spending as much time at the 3pt line as he has in the past.
Thanks, A&M vs Arizona, Robert Williams vs Ayton- should be good.
NP. Depending on how much time you have or how much work you really want to do on him, I would go back and watch his HS games before you watch the A&M or any of his other college games. Gives you an idea on growth of the player, problems within a system, how he plays with other talented players.
TP, thanks. Can I find full HS games on Youtube? Any recommendations on what to search beyond 'DeAndre Ayton full game high school' to find the best content for scouting purposes?
Yes look for any games over the last 2 years that say PSA Cardinals. Look up the 2016 Nike Hoop Summit. Look up 2016 Elite 24. Look up Hillcrest vs Westtown 2017. If you can dig into ESPN they might have a few of his games including the ones I mentioned. I will try and think of a few more but those should give you a baseline of the player before you see what he has done at AZ.
At least that's how I look at players that Im really interested in.
This is more than enough, you're the man. Sending over the TP I forgot to actually click on after my last post...
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I dislike his small hands. That just limits his ability to catch the ball in general. He will spend a lot of his time in the crowd. Be it finishing around the rim, or grabing boards, so it is even more vital.
Maybe I am overeacting, but can he palm the ball?
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If we get 4 or 5 pick we will be lucky.... the sac pick is more probable
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I dislike his small hands. That just limits his ability to catch the ball in general. He will spend a lot of his time in the crowd. Be it finishing around the rim, or grabing boards, so it is even more vital.
Maybe I am overeacting, but can he palm the ball?
yes you are overreacting. His hands are fine.
In fact, his hands are quite good and often cited as a strength for Ayton.
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I dislike his small hands. That just limits his ability to catch the ball in general. He will spend a lot of his time in the crowd. Be it finishing around the rim, or grabing boards, so it is even more vital.
Maybe I am overeacting, but can he palm the ball?
Wait what is this based on? I have seen this guy play close to a dozen times now and have never gotten that impression. In fact in my view, one of his top 3 strengths is his ability to go up and snatch the ball.
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DeAndre Ayton vs UNLV
28 Points, 10 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 3 Blocks
https://youtu.be/d3pp6PShLJc
What you miss in the highlights is that Brandon McCoy goes for 33 and 10, 13-17 shooting. He's same age and size as Ayton, mocked mid first round by Tankathon. Gotta play some D DA.
I havent sat down to watch the game yet so Im not going to comment on the particulars. I will say this, Those two know each other very well. They were teammates on PSA Cardinals. They have practiced against each other often. As a back to the basket player Ayton is still raw and so is his man D there all things that can get better.
Where can you watch the game? I don't see it on YouTube or Google video search.
I have the game on DVR. Having watched him now 3 times since he has been at AZ (You can watch his game from last night on ESPN) I will probably wait a few weeks to watch it. I dont want to flood my eval with too many early season games. Not much has changed with him so far other than he is not spending as much time at the 3pt line as he has in the past.
Thanks, A&M vs Arizona, Robert Williams vs Ayton- should be good.
NP. Depending on how much time you have or how much work you really want to do on him, I would go back and watch his HS games before you watch the A&M or any of his other college games. Gives you an idea on growth of the player, problems within a system, how he plays with other talented players.
Holy jeez, I’m 3 minutes into the game and Bill Walton and Dave Pasch or whoever are absolutely at each other’s throats. Never heard anything like it.
Do these Watch Espn replays only stay online for one day after they’re broadcast live?
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Bill Walton: “we’re always on a bike trip”
Dave Pasch: “remove ‘bike’ from that sentence... and you are correct...”
Bill Walton: “how do they call a foul on that play?”
Dave Pasch: “when there’s tripping they usually call it”
Bill Walton: “there’s Ayton, and you’re the guy who said he was no good.”
Dave Pasch: “I didn’t say that! You’re bringing up guys from 30 years ago.”
Dave Pasch: “nice defense by A&M”
Bill Walton: “oh please!”
I started typing the first exchange and never stopped typing until just now, that all happened in like 2 minutes. And they are interrupting each other at every opportunity.
Is anyone else seeing this? Arizona vs A&M on Watch ESPN replays.
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I dislike his small hands. That just limits his ability to catch the ball in general. He will spend a lot of his time in the crowd. Be it finishing around the rim, or grabing boards, so it is even more vital.
Maybe I am overeacting, but can he palm the ball?
Moses Malone, arguably one of the top 5 rebounders in the history of the NBA, had small hands, relative to his height. Who cares if he can palm the ball? It's about the hunger for the ball that matters in rebounding.
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Bill Walton: “we’re always on a bike trip”
Dave Pasch: “remove ‘bike’ from that sentence... and you are correct...”
Bill Walton: “how do they call a foul on that play?”
Dave Pasch: “when there’s tripping they usually call it”
Bill Walton: “there’s Ayton, and you’re the guy who said he was no good.”
Dave Pasch: “I didn’t say that! You’re bringing up guys from 30 years ago.”
Dave Pasch: “nice defense by A&M”
Bill Walton: “oh please!”
I started typing the first exchange and never stopped typing until just now, that all happened in like 2 minutes. And they are interrupting each other at every opportunity.
Is anyone else seeing this? Arizona vs A&M on Watch ESPN replays.
Hopefully the broadcast is still available tonight. I’ll check it out. Sounds hilarious!
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Ayton or Sexton are the two Danny is eyeing imo
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The one thing Ayton has going against him is his lack of consistent effort prior to college ball.
He has been putting up a better effort in college and needs continue this for the rest of the season
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Bill Walton: “we’re always on a bike trip”
Dave Pasch: “remove ‘bike’ from that sentence... and you are correct...”
Bill Walton: “how do they call a foul on that play?”
Dave Pasch: “when there’s tripping they usually call it”
Bill Walton: “there’s Ayton, and you’re the guy who said he was no good.”
Dave Pasch: “I didn’t say that! You’re bringing up guys from 30 years ago.”
Dave Pasch: “nice defense by A&M”
Bill Walton: “oh please!”
I started typing the first exchange and never stopped typing until just now, that all happened in like 2 minutes. And they are interrupting each other at every opportunity.
Is anyone else seeing this? Arizona vs A&M on Watch ESPN replays.
Hopefully the broadcast is still available tonight. I’ll check it out. Sounds hilarious!
Were you able to check it out? The middle two quotes might have a small piece of the exchange missing cuz they were trading barbs faster than I could type on my phone, but I got it pretty close.
I think the producers finally wrangled them under control about halfway thru the first half, for the most part, but those 10 minutes of game clock time were crazy. I watched them twice and basically couldn’t focus on Ayton or the game at all. But it was worth it. I guess Pasch was PO’d that Walton didn’t remember him from broadcasting the NBA in the past, and Walton wasn’t too sorry about it.
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Was danny at the Arizona game?
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Yes
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I dislike his small hands. That just limits his ability to catch the ball in general. He will spend a lot of his time in the crowd. Be it finishing around the rim, or grabing boards, so it is even more vital.
Maybe I am overeacting, but can he palm the ball?
Wait what is this based on? I have seen this guy play close to a dozen times now and have never gotten that impression. In fact in my view, one of his top 3 strengths is his ability to go up and snatch the ball.
I saw these highlights and it thought so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNRtRUKKYio
0:18, 0:42
He naturally snatches the ball cause he is a big, big dude, explosive, muscular and long and his counterparts, college guys, are not up to his level.
I would like to see him dunk a one-handed oop, something that is a valuable trait for a guy of his ability and position. It would provide his future NBA team with a more versatile version of vertical spacing, a modern bigs important role. I would like that my center can snatch a couple of rebounds with one hand as it is a necessity sometimes, in the crowd, while being out of the perfect box out position, when purely outleaping someone.
It is not his final judgment, just a thought and something I don't prefer from my top, top guy.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNRtRUKKYio
0:18, 0:42
That tape made me question if he has good hands at times, too. Thanks for sharing. I did not think he had too small just hands of stone that can't catch the ball.
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Shades of hakeem the dream and david robinson
https://youtu.be/TPpng6kZtrU
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Shades of hakeem the dream and david robinson
https://youtu.be/TPpng6kZtrU
I get the shades of Robinson, but I feel the Hakeem comparison is off. He was arguably the greatest post player of all time. I love what Ayton brings, but his post game needs a ton of refining. Athletically and in terms of frame, he is very similar to both Hakeem and Robinson, but in terms of what made Hakeem, Hakeem, Ayton is pretty far off.
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According to draftexpress, here are Ayton's measurements (from 2016 Nike Hoop Summit @Portland, OR)
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2016-Nike-Hoop-Summit-International-Measurements-5423/
Hand Length: 9.5
Hand Width: 9.5
Height (w/ shoes): 6-11.75
Weight: 243
Wingspan: 7-5.5
Standing Reach : 9-3
In comparison, here are the respective measurements of some of the best center prospects from last years' draft
http://www.nbadraft.net/2017-nba-draft-combine-measurements
Zach Collins (#10)
Hand Length: 8.75
Hand Width: 9.25
Bam Adebayo (#14)
Hand Length: 9.5
Hand Width: 8.75
Justin Patton (#16)
Hand Length: 8.75
Hand Width: 9.75
Jarrett Allen (#22)
Hand Length: 9.5
Hand Width: 10.5
Tony Bradley (#28)
Hand Length: 9.5
Hand Width: 9.5
Thomas Bryant (#42)
Hand Length: 9.5
Hand Width: 10.25
Ike Anigbogu (#47)
Hand Length: 9.5
Hand Width: 10
Jonathan Jeanne (projected to go late first/early second round leading up to the draft, diagnosed with Marfan syndrome and went undrafted :()
Hand Length: 9.5
Hand Width: 10
Thomas Welsh (he withdrew his name from the draft and stayed at UCLA)
Hand Length: 9.00
Hand Width: 10.50
Ömer Yurtseven (again, withdrew his name from the draft and went back for one more season at NC State)
Hand Length: 9.00
Hand Width: 10.50
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Bill Walton: “we’re always on a bike trip”
Dave Pasch: “remove ‘bike’ from that sentence... and you are correct...”
Bill Walton: “how do they call a foul on that play?”
Dave Pasch: “when there’s tripping they usually call it”
Bill Walton: “there’s Ayton, and you’re the guy who said he was no good.”
Dave Pasch: “I didn’t say that! You’re bringing up guys from 30 years ago.”
Dave Pasch: “nice defense by A&M”
Bill Walton: “oh please!”
I started typing the first exchange and never stopped typing until just now, that all happened in like 2 minutes. And they are interrupting each other at every opportunity.
Is anyone else seeing this? Arizona vs A&M on Watch ESPN replays.
I'm watching a replay of that game on Pac 12 network now. I'm most interested in Bill Walton's comments that Ayton is the best big he's seen since shaq. Walton also said that Ayton is better them Embid and that when he first saw Ayton he thought he was David Robinson.
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Ayton looks better than Embid did his freshman year and not just the skills side which Embid playing less explains. It's physically, the way he moves looks quicker and more explosive. 76ers need to start tanking again to draft this guy and send him out of conference lol
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Shades of hakeem the dream and david robinson
https://youtu.be/TPpng6kZtrU
I get the shades of Robinson, but I feel the Hakeem comparison is off. He was arguably the greatest post player of all time. I love what Ayton brings, but his post game needs a ton of refining. Athletically and in terms of frame, he is very similar to both Hakeem and Robinson, but in terms of what made Hakeem, Hakeem, Ayton is pretty far off.
Yeah, not sure I'd compare him to Hakeem. Hakeem was a good soccer player. It's why he had such great foot work, unlike any other. His post moves were unstoppable and he had that fade away as well. Ayton has a long way to go but he has skills, just not that elite footwork. Who knows, maybe he's a really good dancer which can only help him.
I'd put Olajuwon up there with Malone and McHale as best in the business down low (as well as Kareem but he only had one move and that's only because that's all he needed).
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I like Ayton the most, but maybe i'm stuck in the 90's basketball. Imagine this team with Ayton over Baynes. But adding Badley might be like adding KD instead of Baynes which is what our coach likes most. Lineup of Horford, Badley, Tatum, Hayward and Kyrie could switch everything and use length on defense and rebounding.
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I'm super high on Ayton, but unfortunately it looks like he could be #1 pick, which is not an option for us. :(
If Hawks get #1, you think they take Ayton or maybe someone else (like Young)??
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I'm super high on Ayton, but unfortunately it looks like he could be #1 pick, which is not an option for us. :(
If Hawks get #1, you think they take Ayton or maybe someone else (like Young)??
Perfect we need Bagley.
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I'm super high on Ayton, but unfortunately it looks like he could be #1 pick, which is not an option for us. :(
If Hawks get #1, you think they take Ayton or maybe someone else (like Young)??
I could see the Hawks taking any of Bagley, Ayton or Doncic.
Ayton and Collins would be a good front-court for years, as would Bagley and Collins
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I'm super high on Ayton, but unfortunately it looks like he could be #1 pick, which is not an option for us. :(
If Hawks get #1, you think they take Ayton or maybe someone else (like Young)??
Perfect we need Bagley.
Well Bagley would be great at #2 or #3 (if he falls to #3). I wouldn't mind.
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Here's a good article on Ayton.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2018/1/4/16844056/deandre-ayton-nba-draft-2018-arizona-basketball-scouting-report-highlights
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Ayton on ESPN2 now.
Saw most of the earlier Duke game, Bagley looked like he'd fit in very well next to Horford.
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I also agree with bagleys fit next to horford. I can an see the switches working on defense working nicely between them, bagley helping nicely on perimeter. Offense they compliment each other too
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I'd go Ayton over Bagley but to get either one would be great. I think Bagley fits the team identify more but Ayton seems to just have higher upside. I don't know what I like more the fact Ayton stays at home and picks his spots or Bagley staying active most the game. Work outs and interviews are going to mean a lot for who gets picked first. One thing I noticed is that wings and guards still effect the game so much compared to the bigs. It's like bigs react while guards and wings act. Even when looking at these great prospects the game has changed so much.
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Here is an article on Ayton from Cleaning the glass.
I subscribed to it and wanted to share it. Between paragraphs, there were video clips.
Deandre Ayton, another player discussed as a potential #1 overall selection, is a great counterpoint to Doncic. While Doncic excels because of basketball intellect despite some athletic limitations, Ayton dominates with his body — but does not yet have the basketball mind to match.
Ayton checks basically every box from a physical standpoint: already, at the age of 19, he has the size and strength of an NBA center, with nimble feet, lateral quickness for his size, and easy lift off the floor. That combination, along with touch nice touch both around the rim and on midrange jumpers, gives him a ceiling as high as anyone. It’s not hard to imagine him as a dominant, two-way presence.
And yet there’s something missing. Ayton seems to lack an instinct for the game, that vague yet still tangible quality that scouts describe as “feel”.
“You can’t teach height.”
It’s an old scouting maxim, often used to justify drafting raw, unpolished big men. No matter how unskilled they are, the thinking goes, it’s at least possible to teach a 7-footer how to play the game — but there’s no chance of turning a 6-foot guard into a 7-footer. Like most aphorisms, it oversimplifies, but also contains an important truth: some characteristics of players are more easily changed than others.
Scouting is about both observation (what is the player like right now) and projection (what will the player be like in the future). To take the step from observation to projection, a scout has to have a sense of what about the player can change, and what can’t. That’s where “you can’t teach height” can guide us to a helpful framework for evaluating players.
Imagine arranging all a player’s qualities on a spectrum: on one side are the ones that are least likely to change, like height. On the other end are those that are easiest to change, like experience (it’s just a matter of playing time). We can take everything else about a player — shooting, conditioning, shot blocking, weak side defensive recognition, handle, lateral quickness, et al. — and try to put them somewhere in between. Where we put each characteristic tells us how much to value it when we scout.
For example, if we think one of the easiest things to change about a player is adding muscle and strength to a young, skinny player, we might look the other way when we see a skilled beanpole get bullied. But we might be more concerned if that prospect consistently misses open teammates.
Creating this kind of scouting spectrum isn’t easy, and often causes significant disagreements when discussed. It’s also hard to verify statistically, since, while some of these characteristics can be measured, many are much harder to track. But this spectrum tells us a lot about how we project players, and it’s important to think about when we discuss Deandre Ayton.
Because when we look at the things that are difficult, if not impossible, to change, Ayton is off the charts. His turnover rate so far has been extremely low for a big man, a testament to his footwork and hands. His defensive rebounding rate has also been outstanding, ranking 12th in the country despite often sharing the court with another big man, and comparing very favorably to other big men in the history of the draft. He has made 67% of his 203 shots in two-point range so far this season, largely because of almost unstoppable finishing: he has converted 76% of his attempts around the basket that weren’t post ups, according to Synergy Sports.
You can’t teach that. You can’t take Nikola Jokic and teach him to move and jump like Ayton.
Usually, that’s where the analysis stops. But it’s important to note: you also can’t teach Ayton to see and think the game like Jokic. Ayton will surely get better, but he can be pretty confident in saying he will never get all of the way to one of the most instinctive players in the game. But just how much Ayton’s basketball instinct can improve will be the determining factor in just what type of player Ayton becomes.
Because that’s where we see some real deficiencies. There are multiple aspects of Ayton’s game that make it seem like he doesn’t really know why he’s doing what he’s doing. Like an improv actor that doesn’t know how to play along with their fellow actors, he’s not reading others and reacting as much as following a script in his head.
A great example of this is his screening. In the games I’ve watched, Ayton did not seem to be able to effectively screen defenders. He whiffed on almost every screen he set, rarely making contact or re-routing defenders. And he often seemed like he was just going through the motions:
That’s alarming not only because of what it means for his effectiveness now, but for what it indicates about his ability to pick up and execute on core basketball skills.
His assist rate is decent for his position and usage, and yet watching his assists suggests that he is far from an intuitive passer. Ayton has done a solid job locating open shooters when double teamed, and has the size and strength to whip passes over top of the defense. His hand-eye coordination is evident here as well, since he frequently places these bullets right on target:
But in watching all of his assists, you don’t see much, if anything, that shows an anticipation of the defense. No drawing the defense and dropping off. No quick passes ahead of a rotation. No slick passes to cutters.
You will, however, see him missing open teammates, telegraphing passes, and some curious decisions
That last clip wasn’t the only time I saw Ayton pass up what was likely to be a layup or dunk to shovel to a teammate in worse position. That’s not necessarily bad, but it supports the idea that he’s not reading the game as much as he is just reacting in the moment.
Ayton shows this same pattern on the defensive end as well. He moves his feet very well for his size, able to slide and chop his steps like a wing player. And, as expected playing for one of the NCAA’s better defensive coaches, Sean Miller, he executes important off ball concepts. For example, watch him recognize his help responsibility and tag or get below the roller:
But, there are lots of little things that show the same lack of basketball intuition, a theory supported by very poor block and steal rates for a top tier big man prospect. He occasionally seems to get sucked into watching the ball and just space out:
He doesn’t seem to have an instinct to take a step toward help when the ball is being driven:
This play against Alabama combines much of what we’ve seen. Ayton tags the roller, but then is intent on recovering back to his man, so he doesn’t step up in help when the ball is being driven at him. And he loses sight of his man, so he gets back cut and his man ends up getting an offensive rebound:
Even when he is in help position, his timing is quite worrisome. He is easily pump faked into the air or commits early, which is often a sign of not being quick enough to go get the ball once a player goes into the actual shooting motion:
These things are, in theory, learnable. We know Ayton will get better at some of this — that’s what happens with experience and professional coaching. But what if basketball instinct is harder to learn than we think? What if Ayton is so far behind the curve that it will take a while for him to catch up? How do you teach someone how to time blocks properly? How to give second efforts? What does it say that he hasn’t really gotten it yet?
That’s the downside for Ayton: a player who has all the physical tools but lacks the feel to put it all together in a way that drives winning. That doesn’t mean he’d end up a bad player. Ayton could be a beast on the glass, a threat as a roller, someone who puts up numbers and maybe even makes an All-Star team — but not someone who is a true difference maker, who carries a team, who feels like a great pick at #1 overall.
On the other hand, if he gets it? Watch out. Ayton has good midrange touch already, and with work could potentially grow that range behind the NBA three point line. In addition to his other tools, he might be Andre Drummond or DeAndre Jordan — but without the free throw problems and the ability to hit a three.
So as the season continues, as teams dig into Ayton’s background, talk to former coaches, bring him in for workouts and get to know him, that’s what they’ll be looking for. Is Ayton improving as he gets more coaching and experience? What is he like as a person, as an intellect, that might give a sense of whether he’ll be a quick learner or a slow one? And ultimately, what is the value of a player with this kind of ability, but without high-level feel?
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Another spot on link. Watching the growth of these top players tells me a lot about who they might become.
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This guy has completely dominated in games
32pts/14rb
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E9nfdUeftEk
There’s people on this forum who have followed him for years. He continues to improve and become the player everyone thinks he can be,
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It's going to be tough for a team to pick Doncic over Ayton, in my opinion. The Spanish league is supposed to be more legit than the NCAA, but Ayton's size/skill can add him to the group of young talented big men in the NBA. The Celtics (and any other team) would love a guy like him.
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The Spanish league is supposed to be more legit than the NCAA
Which has produced more NBA stars, that ought to remove the supposed, right away to not. Heck, I could be generous and pick a conference like the ACC and they would still have more stars. That being said, Europeans have been improving and can play at a high level in the NBA.
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The Spanish league is supposed to be more legit than the NCAA
Which has produced more NBA stars, that ought to remove the supposed, right away to not. Heck, I could be generous and pick a conference like the ACC and they would still have more stars. That being said, Europeans have been improving and can play at a high level in the NBA.
It's apples and oranges to compare the two in regards to producing stars. But the Spanish league's top four teams would wipe the floor against a NCAA all star team. That league is far better than the NCAA. NCAA is all youth that hasn't even developed yet. Guys that are good in the NCAA end up in the NBA or overseas leagues how on earth would NCAA be considered better competition wise?
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Here is an article on Ayton from Cleaning the glass.
I subscribed to it and wanted to share it. Between paragraphs, there were video clips.
Deandre Ayton, another player discussed as a potential #1 overall selection, is a great counterpoint to Doncic. While Doncic excels because of basketball intellect despite some athletic limitations, Ayton dominates with his body — but does not yet have the basketball mind to match.
Ayton checks basically every box from a physical standpoint: already, at the age of 19, he has the size and strength of an NBA center, with nimble feet, lateral quickness for his size, and easy lift off the floor. That combination, along with touch nice touch both around the rim and on midrange jumpers, gives him a ceiling as high as anyone. It’s not hard to imagine him as a dominant, two-way presence.
And yet there’s something missing. Ayton seems to lack an instinct for the game, that vague yet still tangible quality that scouts describe as “feel”.
“You can’t teach height.”
It’s an old scouting maxim, often used to justify drafting raw, unpolished big men. No matter how unskilled they are, the thinking goes, it’s at least possible to teach a 7-footer how to play the game — but there’s no chance of turning a 6-foot guard into a 7-footer. Like most aphorisms, it oversimplifies, but also contains an important truth: some characteristics of players are more easily changed than others.
Scouting is about both observation (what is the player like right now) and projection (what will the player be like in the future). To take the step from observation to projection, a scout has to have a sense of what about the player can change, and what can’t. That’s where “you can’t teach height” can guide us to a helpful framework for evaluating players.
Imagine arranging all a player’s qualities on a spectrum: on one side are the ones that are least likely to change, like height. On the other end are those that are easiest to change, like experience (it’s just a matter of playing time). We can take everything else about a player — shooting, conditioning, shot blocking, weak side defensive recognition, handle, lateral quickness, et al. — and try to put them somewhere in between. Where we put each characteristic tells us how much to value it when we scout.
For example, if we think one of the easiest things to change about a player is adding muscle and strength to a young, skinny player, we might look the other way when we see a skilled beanpole get bullied. But we might be more concerned if that prospect consistently misses open teammates.
Creating this kind of scouting spectrum isn’t easy, and often causes significant disagreements when discussed. It’s also hard to verify statistically, since, while some of these characteristics can be measured, many are much harder to track. But this spectrum tells us a lot about how we project players, and it’s important to think about when we discuss Deandre Ayton.
Because when we look at the things that are difficult, if not impossible, to change, Ayton is off the charts. His turnover rate so far has been extremely low for a big man, a testament to his footwork and hands. His defensive rebounding rate has also been outstanding, ranking 12th in the country despite often sharing the court with another big man, and comparing very favorably to other big men in the history of the draft. He has made 67% of his 203 shots in two-point range so far this season, largely because of almost unstoppable finishing: he has converted 76% of his attempts around the basket that weren’t post ups, according to Synergy Sports.
You can’t teach that. You can’t take Nikola Jokic and teach him to move and jump like Ayton.
Usually, that’s where the analysis stops. But it’s important to note: you also can’t teach Ayton to see and think the game like Jokic. Ayton will surely get better, but he can be pretty confident in saying he will never get all of the way to one of the most instinctive players in the game. But just how much Ayton’s basketball instinct can improve will be the determining factor in just what type of player Ayton becomes.
Because that’s where we see some real deficiencies. There are multiple aspects of Ayton’s game that make it seem like he doesn’t really know why he’s doing what he’s doing. Like an improv actor that doesn’t know how to play along with their fellow actors, he’s not reading others and reacting as much as following a script in his head.
A great example of this is his screening. In the games I’ve watched, Ayton did not seem to be able to effectively screen defenders. He whiffed on almost every screen he set, rarely making contact or re-routing defenders. And he often seemed like he was just going through the motions:
That’s alarming not only because of what it means for his effectiveness now, but for what it indicates about his ability to pick up and execute on core basketball skills.
His assist rate is decent for his position and usage, and yet watching his assists suggests that he is far from an intuitive passer. Ayton has done a solid job locating open shooters when double teamed, and has the size and strength to whip passes over top of the defense. His hand-eye coordination is evident here as well, since he frequently places these bullets right on target:
But in watching all of his assists, you don’t see much, if anything, that shows an anticipation of the defense. No drawing the defense and dropping off. No quick passes ahead of a rotation. No slick passes to cutters.
You will, however, see him missing open teammates, telegraphing passes, and some curious decisions
That last clip wasn’t the only time I saw Ayton pass up what was likely to be a layup or dunk to shovel to a teammate in worse position. That’s not necessarily bad, but it supports the idea that he’s not reading the game as much as he is just reacting in the moment.
Ayton shows this same pattern on the defensive end as well. He moves his feet very well for his size, able to slide and chop his steps like a wing player. And, as expected playing for one of the NCAA’s better defensive coaches, Sean Miller, he executes important off ball concepts. For example, watch him recognize his help responsibility and tag or get below the roller:
But, there are lots of little things that show the same lack of basketball intuition, a theory supported by very poor block and steal rates for a top tier big man prospect. He occasionally seems to get sucked into watching the ball and just space out:
He doesn’t seem to have an instinct to take a step toward help when the ball is being driven:
This play against Alabama combines much of what we’ve seen. Ayton tags the roller, but then is intent on recovering back to his man, so he doesn’t step up in help when the ball is being driven at him. And he loses sight of his man, so he gets back cut and his man ends up getting an offensive rebound:
Even when he is in help position, his timing is quite worrisome. He is easily pump faked into the air or commits early, which is often a sign of not being quick enough to go get the ball once a player goes into the actual shooting motion:
These things are, in theory, learnable. We know Ayton will get better at some of this — that’s what happens with experience and professional coaching. But what if basketball instinct is harder to learn than we think? What if Ayton is so far behind the curve that it will take a while for him to catch up? How do you teach someone how to time blocks properly? How to give second efforts? What does it say that he hasn’t really gotten it yet?
That’s the downside for Ayton: a player who has all the physical tools but lacks the feel to put it all together in a way that drives winning. That doesn’t mean he’d end up a bad player. Ayton could be a beast on the glass, a threat as a roller, someone who puts up numbers and maybe even makes an All-Star team — but not someone who is a true difference maker, who carries a team, who feels like a great pick at #1 overall.
On the other hand, if he gets it? Watch out. Ayton has good midrange touch already, and with work could potentially grow that range behind the NBA three point line. In addition to his other tools, he might be Andre Drummond or DeAndre Jordan — but without the free throw problems and the ability to hit a three.
So as the season continues, as teams dig into Ayton’s background, talk to former coaches, bring him in for workouts and get to know him, that’s what they’ll be looking for. Is Ayton improving as he gets more coaching and experience? What is he like as a person, as an intellect, that might give a sense of whether he’ll be a quick learner or a slow one? And ultimately, what is the value of a player with this kind of ability, but without high-level feel?
You make some good points, but many of these observations are really on the Arizona team as a whole. For example, there clearly are some skills associated with setting good picks, but almost all of the responsibility for the pick's contact is on the ball handler. Getting good passing out of double teams is just as much about spacing and movement of your offensive teammates as it is the skill of the passer.
I've only seen him play 4 or 5 times, but he looked like he had the potential to be an all NBA player. College ball is tougher on big men. You don't see the same spacing you see in the NBA. I saw a guy who consistently was able to find opportunities inside even though most teams pack the lane against him.
He might just end up being pretty good, but I doubt it. My guess is he'll be a cornerstone in the NBA.
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Per Adam Himmelsbach:
Likely No. 1 pick Deandre Ayton on what he would consider a success in the NBA: “Definitely getting to that second contract. That’s my success.”
So his goal is to not be Anthony Bennett, which is okay, but I think I’d want a little more ambition from my #1 overall pick. Or desire for team success. Just not what he said.
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Per Adam Himmelsbach:
Likely No. 1 pick Deandre Ayton on what he would consider a success in the NBA: “Definitely getting to that second contract. That’s my success.”
So his goal is to not be Anthony Bennett, which is okay, but I think I’d want a little more ambition from my #1 overall pick. Or desire for team success. Just not what he said.
That's a terrible answer. Hopefully it was made as a joke by an immature 19 year old.
Is that a reference to wanting to get paid? Is that fear of busting? What is that?
Seriously, Michael Olowakandi 2.0
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Per Adam Himmelsbach:
Likely No. 1 pick Deandre Ayton on what he would consider a success in the NBA: “Definitely getting to that second contract. That’s my success.”
So his goal is to not be Anthony Bennett, which is okay, but I think I’d want a little more ambition from my #1 overall pick. Or desire for team success. Just not what he said.
That's a terrible answer. Hopefully it was made as a joke by an immature 19 year old.
Is that a reference to wanting to get paid? Is that fear of busting? What is that?
Seriously, Michael Olowakandi 2.0
Assuming he doesn’t seriously screw up, he’s already getting $40 million over four years. I guess we should take it as a positive that he didn’t say “getting my Year 4 option picked up”.
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Per Adam Himmelsbach:
Likely No. 1 pick Deandre Ayton on what he would consider a success in the NBA: “Definitely getting to that second contract. That’s my success.”
So his goal is to not be Anthony Bennett, which is okay, but I think I’d want a little more ambition from my #1 overall pick. Or desire for team success. Just not what he said.
I don't disagree but this reminded me of that interview Fultz did with Tracy McGrady this time last year where McGrady asked him what Fultz wanted to accomplish in his first season and he was like, "I want to be MVP and Rookie of the Year."
So I don't know how much I care about this.
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Per Adam Himmelsbach:
Likely No. 1 pick Deandre Ayton on what he would consider a success in the NBA: “Definitely getting to that second contract. That’s my success.”
So his goal is to not be Anthony Bennett, which is okay, but I think I’d want a little more ambition from my #1 overall pick. Or desire for team success. Just not what he said.
I don't disagree but this reminded me of that interview Fultz did with Tracy McGrady this time last year where McGrady asked him what Fultz wanted to accomplish in his first season and he was like, "I want to be MVP and Rookie of the Year."
So I don't know how much I care about this.
It’s certainly not the biggest red flag in the world, but when one of a player’s flaws is inconsistent effort, “I’m just playing for a contract” is a little troubling.
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Per Adam Himmelsbach:
Likely No. 1 pick Deandre Ayton on what he would consider a success in the NBA: “Definitely getting to that second contract. That’s my success.”
So his goal is to not be Anthony Bennett, which is okay, but I think I’d want a little more ambition from my #1 overall pick. Or desire for team success. Just not what he said.
I don't disagree but this reminded me of that interview Fultz did with Tracy McGrady this time last year where McGrady asked him what Fultz wanted to accomplish in his first season and he was like, "I want to be MVP and Rookie of the Year."
So I don't know how much I care about this.
It’s certainly not the biggest red flag in the world, but when one of a player’s flaws is inconsistent effort, “I’m just playing for a contract” is a little troubling.
lol. This is true.