Jabari Bird arrested

[bellerephon]

The rates for violence for mental illness is actually the about same rate as for people without mental illness. 4% to 3.7% so it is very close.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686644/

It is a myth that most people with mental illness are violent.   I have worked in the field for over 25 years and I have been attacked only once.  I worked inpatient, outpatient, etc.

The news of course, does not make it seem this way and Lawyers mine this as a defense.

Finally, some sense when it comes to using mental illness as an excuse for what Bird may have done. Mental illness does not equate to violence. Or innocence. It's not an excuse, except in some very rare cases.

Also, you can have mental illness and still break the law knowingly. You can have mental illness and break the law through a crime of passion. You can have mental illness and just be stupid and break the law.

This is a good point. Having a mental illness does not automatically allow one to use it as a defense against a criminal charge. There is a distinct difference between mental illness and not being legally responsible for one's actions.

[JHTruth]

Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.

I mean, I suppose best-case scenario would be something like Bird has a previously-diagnosed mental health condition and either there was a change in his medication or something interacted with his medication in a negative way. Assuming the other person isn't hurt too badly (and I have no information on which to base that assumption) I could see the team giving him some time to focus on getting right with his doctor and letting him come back in a few weeks with the equivalent of a doctor's note if that were the case, particularly given the league's recent focus on mental health.

Lol no one is going to accept a bad reaction to medication as an excuse for putting a woman in the hospital.

Forget basketball, Jailbari will be lucky to keep his freedom..

People routinely commit more severe acts of violence without legal ramifications.  The mental health court system intervenes and requires a patient be compliant with community mental health teatment; when they aren't, they're involuntarily committed to a state inpatient psychiatric hospital.

The mental health defense is going to be a tough sell without any history of it. Fairly certain if Bird had any issues the team would have been privy to it (hipaa be [dang]ed) and wouldn't have signed him. You just don't take that risk for a bench warmer.

Yeah, it's pretty unlikely that Bird is psychotic and no one has noticed, I was just responding to the poster above.  There are some interesting scenarios that make for good arguments. Hard to parse psychopathology from criminal behavior, and then draw a subjective line for punishment somewhere

its very possible he is psychotic. Or has mental issues. A nonexistent  history doesn’t mean anything. Remember keyon doolings issue? Or Delonte west? Royce white. Kevin loves Mental health problems in nba players are real, and a lot of times these people hide it for fear

It is possible that he has serious mental illness, like psychosis -- I just looked and he actually just turned 24 in July, where it could be his first major episode. 

I think most would argue one has mental health issues to strangle/kidnap someone, right? Or am I wrong there? I remember trying to keep quiet about Aaron Hernandez's mental health even after his suicide because most people understandably found his behavior stomach churning.  But to be fair, he was also a very sick person.

That's a philosophical question more than anything. One could argue that criminAlity is mental illness but from the perspective of societal health it really doesn't matter. Unless some form of extreme distance from reality is established, responsibility for ones crimes is a first principle

TP, agree that safety and well-being of the masses should come before any one individual.  Without getting too wrapped up in psychobabble (unless you want to), how do we define the boundaries of "extreme distance from reality?"

Personally it should be like not knowing what decade it is or what planet we live on level psychosis

[JSD]

Anyone know the details of the Bird contract? Can they cut him and get out from the cap hit? Every dollar counts when we are this close to the LT.

[billysan]

Anyone know the details of the Bird contract? Can they cut him and get out from the cap hit? Every dollar counts when we are this close to the LT.

Roy answered early in this thread.

[JSD]

Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.

There it is

[Roy H.]

Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.

There it is

As a note, I believe that 50% of any money he loses due to suspension is removed from the luxury tax calculation.

[JSD]

Ainge might be wise to just keep him on the roster and try to throw him into a Morris dump trade if that's the direction Danny is considering near the deadline. With no signs of being under the LT for years to come, Celtics might be wise to avoid it this year if possible to put off the dreaded repeater that they'll eventually be paying.

[Birdman]

If guilty, no team may want him

[JSD]

Spoke to a few people. This is legit he’s gone

Wow. Whatever you learned made you quickly change your mind on this. Can we ask what did you hear?

Domestic situations are so emotionally charged and often fueled by drugs and alcohol. False accusations and self harm to punish a cheating partner happens more often than people think. Responding officers often relying on word against word of the people involved, and physical evidence (Marks, bruises etc) so it can get a little tricky without witnesses. So when I first read the story I paused with a little skepticism, especially because the situation involves a professional athlete. I was assured by a trusted source that this was an ugly situation and that Bird messed up badly.

[JHTruth]

Spoke to a few people. This is legit he’s gone

Wow. Whatever you learned made you quickly change your mind on this. Can we ask what did you hear?

Domestic situations are so emotionally charged and often fueled by drugs and alcohol. False accusations and self harm to punish a cheating partner happens more often than people think. Responding officers often relying on word against word of the people involved, and physical evidence (Marks, bruises etc) so it can get a little tricky without witnesses. So when I first read the story I paused with a little skepticism, especially because the situation involves a professional athlete. I was assured by a trusted source that this was an ugly situation and that Bird messed up badly.

The police put out a statement that he was being chArged with three mAjor counts. Did you think they were lying?

[JSD]

Spoke to a few people. This is legit he’s gone

Wow. Whatever you learned made you quickly change your mind on this. Can we ask what did you hear?

Domestic situations are so emotionally charged and often fueled by drugs and alcohol. False accusations and self harm to punish a cheating partner happens more often than people think. Responding officers often relying on word against word of the people involved, and physical evidence (Marks, bruises etc) so it can get a little tricky without witnesses. So when I first read the story I paused with a little skepticism, especially because the situation involves a professional athlete. I was assured by a trusted source that this was an ugly situation and that Bird messed up badly.

The police put out a statement that he was being chArged with three mAjor counts. Did you think they were lying?

UFC fighter Nick Diaz is facing the exact same charges as Bird. Diaz claims he was framed. There may even be a responding officer or two who believe Diaz, but the police still had to charge him based on the victim's statements and actions.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Diaz did or didn't do it, I have no idea, but there is a financial motive for the victim to lie that should be regarded. Diaz could be telling the truth. I trust the courts will figure it out.


https://fansided.com/2018/07/06/nick-diaz-framed-domestic-violence/


Luckily for this Uber driver, he was video recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hN0ryWMW2Q&t=170s

[Kuberski33]

Anyone remember a certain Celtics center whose number hangs in the rafters who had some real nasty (and somewhat similar) accusations surface near the end of his career.  He's revered still.

https://www.si.com/vault/1995/07/31/204991/the-worst-kind-of-coward-allegations-by-robert-parishs-former-wife-have-cast-a-new-light-on-an-old-hero

I'm amused by some of the comments about mental illness etc.  Some people are just not great guys. Even ones who are otherwise respected around the league.

[tazzmaniac]

Spoke to a few people. This is legit he’s gone

Wow. Whatever you learned made you quickly change your mind on this. Can we ask what did you hear?

Domestic situations are so emotionally charged and often fueled by drugs and alcohol. False accusations and self harm to punish a cheating partner happens more often than people think. Responding officers often relying on word against word of the people involved, and physical evidence (Marks, bruises etc) so it can get a little tricky without witnesses. So when I first read the story I paused with a little skepticism, especially because the situation involves a professional athlete. I was assured by a trusted source that this was an ugly situation and that Bird messed up badly.

The police put out a statement that he was being chArged with three mAjor counts. Did you think they were lying?

UFC fighter Nick Diaz is facing the exact same charges as Bird. Diaz claims he was framed. There may even be a responding officer or two who believe Diaz, but the police still had to charge him based on the victim's statements and actions.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Diaz did or didn't do it, I have no idea, but there is a financial motive for the victim to lie that should be regarded. Diaz could be telling the truth. I trust the courts will figure it out.


https://fansided.com/2018/07/06/nick-diaz-framed-domestic-violence/


Luckily for this Uber driver, he was video recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hN0ryWMW2Q&t=170s

The charges against Nick Diaz were dismissed.  In Bird's case, the strangulation charge makes it much harder to think it might be a false accusation. 

https://mmajunkie.com/2018/08/ufc-nick-diaz-what-next-after-domestic-assault-case-dismissed

[JSD]

Spoke to a few people. This is legit he’s gone

Wow. Whatever you learned made you quickly change your mind on this. Can we ask what did you hear?

Domestic situations are so emotionally charged and often fueled by drugs and alcohol. False accusations and self harm to punish a cheating partner happens more often than people think. Responding officers often relying on word against word of the people involved, and physical evidence (Marks, bruises etc) so it can get a little tricky without witnesses. So when I first read the story I paused with a little skepticism, especially because the situation involves a professional athlete. I was assured by a trusted source that this was an ugly situation and that Bird messed up badly.

The police put out a statement that he was being chArged with three mAjor counts. Did you think they were lying?

UFC fighter Nick Diaz is facing the exact same charges as Bird. Diaz claims he was framed. There may even be a responding officer or two who believe Diaz, but the police still had to charge him based on the victim's statements and actions.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Diaz did or didn't do it, I have no idea, but there is a financial motive for the victim to lie that should be regarded. Diaz could be telling the truth. I trust the courts will figure it out.


https://fansided.com/2018/07/06/nick-diaz-framed-domestic-violence/


Luckily for this Uber driver, he was video recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hN0ryWMW2Q&t=170s

The charges against Nick Diaz were dismissed.  In Bird's case, the strangulation charge makes it much harder to think it might be a false accusation. 

https://mmajunkie.com/2018/08/ufc-nick-diaz-what-next-after-domestic-assault-case-dismissed

From the link I provided, very similar charges:

Diaz was released on an $18,000 bond the next day, officially charged with domestic battery by strangulation, a felony, and misdemeanor domestic battery.

Yes, TP, the case was dismissed:

Las Vegas Justice Court judge Amy Chelini dismissed the case with prejudice, which means charges cannot be filed on the matter later. She said the district attorney’s office “did the right thing,” while suggesting the alleged victim was not wholly truthful.

“The frustrating thing for me is we have a lot of true victims out there and when you see stuff like this, and you take strained resources from the true victims, and it’s frustrating for the court,” Chelini said. “But you did the right thing. And it’s not you. I’m more upset with people calling 9-1-1 because they’re p---ed off.”

https://ca.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/idCAKCN1LF2HB-OCASP

[Roy H.]

Spoke to a few people. This is legit he’s gone

Wow. Whatever you learned made you quickly change your mind on this. Can we ask what did you hear?

Domestic situations are so emotionally charged and often fueled by drugs and alcohol. False accusations and self harm to punish a cheating partner happens more often than people think. Responding officers often relying on word against word of the people involved, and physical evidence (Marks, bruises etc) so it can get a little tricky without witnesses. So when I first read the story I paused with a little skepticism, especially because the situation involves a professional athlete. I was assured by a trusted source that this was an ugly situation and that Bird messed up badly.

The police put out a statement that he was being chArged with three mAjor counts. Did you think they were lying?

UFC fighter Nick Diaz is facing the exact same charges as Bird. Diaz claims he was framed. There may even be a responding officer or two who believe Diaz, but the police still had to charge him based on the victim's statements and actions.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Diaz did or didn't do it, I have no idea, but there is a financial motive for the victim to lie that should be regarded. Diaz could be telling the truth. I trust the courts will figure it out.


https://fansided.com/2018/07/06/nick-diaz-framed-domestic-violence/


Luckily for this Uber driver, he was video recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hN0ryWMW2Q&t=170s

The charges against Nick Diaz were dismissed.  In Bird's case, the strangulation charge makes it much harder to think it might be a false accusation. 

https://mmajunkie.com/2018/08/ufc-nick-diaz-what-next-after-domestic-assault-case-dismissed

This isn’t always true. Sometimes these charges come from only a victim’s allegation (no ligature marks, etc.)  Sometimes marks on the upper chest that very well could be from the defendant trying to hold off or restrain the alleged victim are misconstrued, etc.