Author Topic: Jabari Bird arrested  (Read 46117 times)

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Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #285 on: September 15, 2018, 02:25:04 AM »

Online Roy H.

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(public defender?)

Close enough. We don’t have a public defender system here in Maine. Rather, private attorneys take court appointments for criminal defense, which makes up a fairly large percentage of my practice.

Is there a mental health court in Maine? Or drug court?

We have various drug courts around the state. There’s a Co-occurring Disorders Court in Augusta, but it’s pretty limited.


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Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #286 on: September 15, 2018, 07:55:01 AM »

Offline mqtcelticsfan

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The Celtics need to set an example and release Jabari Bird immediately.

While I wholeheartedly agree that Jabari Bird should, and likely will not play for the Celtics, I’d wait until the NBA does its thing and see if we can void the contract. While there’s practically no difference from a competitive standpoint, I think it’s absurd for Boston to pay Jabari Bird off to cut ties. I could be wrong about how this process works, though.

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #287 on: September 15, 2018, 08:43:18 AM »

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Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #288 on: September 15, 2018, 10:44:39 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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dangercart explains cap ramifications

https://www.dangerc.art/blog/the-financial-impact-of-the-jabari-bird-allegations
I think I saw one mistake in that article. I thought NBA teams had to carry a minimum of 13 players on their roster not 14 as it says in the article. Perhaps that has changed but I never read anything about it changing.

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #289 on: September 15, 2018, 02:18:15 PM »

Offline otherdave

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Teams can carry 14 players, most carry 15.  CBA says league must average 14.5.  Not sure what happens if average dips below 14.5

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #290 on: September 15, 2018, 02:26:05 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Teams can carry 14 players, most carry 15.  CBA says league must average 14.5.  Not sure what happens if average dips below 14.5
Just checked. The minimum is 14 players. I was wrong about the 13 minimum number.

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #291 on: September 16, 2018, 11:20:21 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #292 on: September 16, 2018, 11:24:02 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.
But those guys don't have a seizure attack when they do evil things, you need an unhealthy brain to make that happen
they keep skipping that fact for some convenient reason

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #293 on: September 16, 2018, 11:25:42 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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The Celtics need to set an example and release Jabari Bird immediately.
what if the courts find him not guilty ? That doesn’t seem fair at all

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #294 on: September 16, 2018, 11:27:27 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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The Celtics need to set an example and release Jabari Bird immediately.
what if the courts find him not guilty ? That doesn’t seem fair at all

My guess is that the team knows more of the facts than the media/general public here.

If the team is releasing him (and I'm guessing they will at some point), its because they feel pretty certain this kid is guilty one way or another. 


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Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #295 on: September 16, 2018, 11:30:19 AM »

Online Roy H.

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The Celtics need to set an example and release Jabari Bird immediately.
what if the courts find him not guilty ? That doesn’t seem fair at all

Why not?  There's a huge chasm between "not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" (or "not responsible due to insanity") and "not guilty in the world of public opinion". 

There's really no doubt that Jabari severely injured a woman.  Is that the guy that most fans want to root for, or that sponsors want to support?




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Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #296 on: September 16, 2018, 11:32:16 AM »

Online Roy H.

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So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.
But those guys don't have a seizure attack when they do evil things, you need an unhealthy brain to make that happen
they keep skipping that fact for some convenient reason

Nobody "keeps skipping" that.  It's because it's not really true.  For instance, as linked above, rage can lead to seizures.  Is it a criminal defense to a severe assault that "I got really, really angry"?


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Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #297 on: September 16, 2018, 12:06:51 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.
But those guys don't have a seizure attack when they do evil things, you need an unhealthy brain to make that happen
they keep skipping that fact for some convenient reason

Nobody "keeps skipping" that.  It's because it's not really true.  For instance, as linked above, rage can lead to seizures.  Is it a criminal defense to a severe assault that "I got really, really angry"?
Just to be clear, my comment was directed specifically at the bolded comment that said people don't do these type of things without some sort of mental illness. I wasn't saying that Bird didn't do this because of mental illness. I was just pointing out that there are people who kill and rape that aren't mentally ill.

That out of the way, even if he is mentally ill, that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing and isn't responsible for the consequences. Most domestic violence occurs from learned behavior or are crimes of passion. Alcohol and drug addiction can exasperate the situation as well.

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #298 on: September 16, 2018, 12:49:04 PM »

Offline playdream

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So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.
But those guys don't have a seizure attack when they do evil things, you need an unhealthy brain to make that happen
they keep skipping that fact for some convenient reason

Nobody "keeps skipping" that.  It's because it's not really true.  For instance, as linked above, rage can lead to seizures.  Is it a criminal defense to a severe assault that "I got really, really angry"?
Just checked your link, it tells the exact opposite conclusion
"In the past, rage attacks were thought to be related to epilepsy or Tourette syndrome. This is now understood to be false"
"In very rare cases, limbic seizures can be linked to out-of-control behavior. However, this is uncommon"

So..
1.rage attack only very rarely cause limbic seizures, no lose of conscious
2.If bird did pass out after seizure, it most likely is a Generalized seizure of Epilepsy which definitely related to an unhealthy brain

I'm no expert in neuro-psyso area but it seems pretty clear to me, correct me if i'm wrong
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 01:43:41 PM by playdream »

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #299 on: September 16, 2018, 02:34:10 PM »

Online Emmette Bryant

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I haven't read this whole thread, but just in case it hasn't been posted, here's a thorough analysis from an attorney

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/09/13/jabari-bird-celtics-domestic-violence-assault-charges-arrest