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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Eddie20 on September 08, 2018, 07:58:22 AM

Title: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on September 08, 2018, 07:58:22 AM
The Celtics released a statement on the incident (assault - apparently domestic).


 “We are aware of the incident involving Jabari Bird and are taking it very seriously. We are actively gathering information and will reserve further comment at this time.”
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on September 08, 2018, 08:03:25 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if he gets waived. 14th/15th man on rosters just aren't good enough to keep around with these type of incidents.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Sophomore on September 08, 2018, 08:05:16 AM
Terrible news.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Csfan1984 on September 08, 2018, 08:42:28 AM
Domestic assault is always a strange situation. Sometimes it's just an extremly emotional argument with a single pushing/holding.

Any info on how bad it was?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hpantazo on September 08, 2018, 08:50:18 AM
Domestic assault is always a strange situation. Sometimes it's just an extremly emotional argument with a single pushing/holding.

Any info on how bad it was?

He was in custody in the hospital and the domestic violence unit was involved so it doesn’t sound good for him
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: gouki88 on September 08, 2018, 09:00:14 AM
Domestic assault is always a strange situation. Sometimes it's just an extremly emotional argument with a single pushing/holding.

Any info on how bad it was?

He was in custody in the hospital and the domestic violence unit was involved so it doesn’t sound good for him
Ugh. Not good
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 08, 2018, 09:07:08 AM
We never should have given him the roster spot in the first place. Scrubs shouldn’t be bringing the team bad publicity.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on September 08, 2018, 09:14:17 AM

Celtics shooting guard Jabari Bird was arrested in Brighton Friday after a “domestic incident” in which he allegedly assaulted, strangled, and kidnapped somebody, according to Boston police.

Bird was being “guarded by the Boston police at a local hospital” on Saturday morning “for an evaluation. He is expected to appear in Brighton District Court on Monday, where complaints will be sought against him, said Boston police Sergeant John Boyle, a spokesman for the department.


Sounds like he also was baker acted. He's done. Time to see what free agent is available.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 08, 2018, 09:14:19 AM
Quote
Celtics shooting guard Jabari Bird was arrested in Brighton Friday after a “domestic incident” in which he allegedly assaulted, strangled, and kidnapped somebody, according to Boston police.

Bird was being “guarded by the Boston police at a local hospital” on Saturday morning “for an evaluation. He is expected to appear in Brighton District Court on Monday, where complaints will be sought against him, said Boston police Sergeant John Boyle, a spokesman for the department.

The victim was taken to a separate local hospital “for treatment with injuries sustained,” Boyle said.


He’s being “evaluated” for either drugs or mental health, most likely.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 08, 2018, 09:16:03 AM
Got yourself arrested is over the line , cut him
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on September 08, 2018, 09:19:04 AM
The strangulation part is legally the biggest issue. He could be eventually charged with attempted murder depending on how the victim articulates the act.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: trickybilly on September 08, 2018, 09:21:18 AM
Man, I hope the partner is OK. The victim always seems to get lost in these things somehow...

His career is probably done in the NBA, but he should be able to clean his life up, and make amends in Europe.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: GreenWarrior on September 08, 2018, 09:33:14 AM
buh bye.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Chef Parish on September 08, 2018, 09:36:30 AM
Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: A Future of Stevens on September 08, 2018, 09:47:44 AM
I wonder what happened. I hope the victim is okay.

I liked Jabari, but as everyone else said, he is done. Cant have this sort of stuff in the pros.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: csfansince60s on September 08, 2018, 09:51:44 AM
Very disappointed.

Was a big fan.

Was in a great situation here, blessed with a great coaching staff, organization, teammates and fans, with his buddy Jaylen there to guide him.

It eludes me how some of these athletes who have the world by the balls compared to 99% of the population just fritter it away.

Sad for him....liked the kid.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 08, 2018, 09:52:54 AM
Well that was a pretty short Celtics career. Worst of luck if guilty
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 08, 2018, 10:01:56 AM
Pathetic how many media members wrote puff pieces on this fringe roster guy while writing endless stories about RW3 losing his wallet or missing a media call ::)
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 08, 2018, 10:13:50 AM
Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Birdman on September 08, 2018, 10:16:35 AM
Idiot!! Dont care who u are, u never hit a woman or kid!! If he did do it, release him!!!
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: BringToughnessBack on September 08, 2018, 10:18:54 AM
One thing to have an argument and it is a completely different to kidnap and strangle someone..yikes.

Hope he gets the help he needs. Mental Health issues are no joke- especially if bipolar or something else that has psychotic tendencies.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Kuberski33 on September 08, 2018, 10:26:52 AM
Idiot!! Dont care who u are, u never hit a woman or kid!! If he did do it, release him!!!
What if Tatum did it - would you be saying the same thing?  My point is we only really know these guys from the few hours a week we see them on the court.  Off the court...let's just say having a specific set of skills that can make you lots of money doesn't necessarily mean you're a good guy to boot. 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hpantazo on September 08, 2018, 10:28:52 AM
Idiot!! Dont care who u are, u never hit a woman or kid!! If he did do it, release him!!!
What if Tatum did it - would you be saying the same thing?


Yes. If he did what he's accused of, there should be zero tolerance for that, unless he has legitimate mental health issues that he needs to get help for.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tonydelk on September 08, 2018, 10:40:47 AM
Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.

Unless there is verbiage built in allowing them to void the contract. 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eja117 on September 08, 2018, 10:46:18 AM
Idiot!! Dont care who u are, u never hit a woman or kid!! If he did do it, release him!!!
What if Tatum did it - would you be saying the same thing?  My point is we only really know these guys from the few hours a week we see them on the court.  Off the court...let's just say having a specific set of skills that can make you lots of money doesn't necessarily mean you're a good guy to boot.
I would be satisfied in both cases if they had to pay a hefty fine (based on percent of salary) to women's shelters, had to publicly state that all violence against women and others is wrong, and had to attend extensive counseling.

I wouldn't mind if all NBA contracts had language about 2 strikes you're out of the league for a year without pay, then permanently and whatnot.

And there should be incentives for teams and players to get themselves in counseling BEFORE they get arrested.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: PAOBoston on September 08, 2018, 10:57:59 AM
Assault, stangle, kidnap.

Talk about a trifecta. Either dude has some serious mental problems or he was completely whacked out on something.

Sad because he had a glorious opportunity here. Will certainly be interesting to see the details of this.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: More Banners on September 08, 2018, 11:02:00 AM
Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.

He could have been part of a package to get under the tax that returned a future pick or something.

Now they'll have to send out his salary in cash plus a second to get rid of him.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tazzmaniac on September 08, 2018, 11:21:24 AM
Assault, stangle, kidnap.

Talk about a trifecta. Either dude has some serious mental problems or he was completely whacked out on something.

Sad because he had a glorious opportunity here. Will certainly be interesting to see the details of this.
Assault could be any sort of physical contact including pushing or grabbing.  They can charge kidnapping if she accused him of preventing her from leaving.   Strangulation is the unusual  charge and hard to think of a reasonable explanation that would minimize it. 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tazzmaniac on September 08, 2018, 11:24:12 AM
Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.

He could have been part of a package to get under the tax that returned a future pick or something.

Now they'll have to send out his salary in cash plus a second to get rid of him.
I'd be surprised if any team would trade for him.  The PR would be really bad. 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hwangjini_1 on September 08, 2018, 11:28:16 AM
We never should have given him the roster spot in the first place. Scrubs shouldn’t be bringing the team bad publicity.
are you saying that somehow the celtics management should have foreseen this? otherwise, i am not sure of your opening statement.

next, if the charges by the police are accurate, bird is in big trouble, as he should be.

but it is still early and the reports are not set in place. i wont rush to judgement and will wait to see more.

i hope the charges are not accurate. but if they are, jail time for bird might result.

too bad. i really thought he had a chance to do well with the celtics. and now he may have frittered away his biggest chance in his life.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bogg on September 08, 2018, 11:34:32 AM
Assault, stangle, kidnap.

Talk about a trifecta. Either dude has some serious mental problems or he was completely whacked out on something.

Sad because he had a glorious opportunity here. Will certainly be interesting to see the details of this.
Assault could be any sort of physical contact including pushing or grabbing.  They can charge kidnapping if she accused him of preventing her from leaving.   Strangulation is the unusual  charge and hard to think of a reasonable explanation that would minimize it.

To put it lightly, I don't think the police put you on a psychiatric hold for pushing someone away from the door and then standing in front of it and refusing to move.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: konkmv on September 08, 2018, 11:36:21 AM
Next..... waive him if all this Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. is true... i think every team should have some clauses when these things happen.. why pay a guy like that?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Kuberski33 on September 08, 2018, 11:43:19 AM
Assault, stangle, kidnap.

Talk about a trifecta. Either dude has some serious mental problems or he was completely whacked out on something.

Sad because he had a glorious opportunity here. Will certainly be interesting to see the details of this.
Assault could be any sort of physical contact including pushing or grabbing.  They can charge kidnapping if she accused him of preventing her from leaving.   Strangulation is the unusual  charge and hard to think of a reasonable explanation that would minimize it.

To put it lightly, I don't think the police put you on a psychiatric hold for pushing someone away from the door and then standing in front of it and refusing to move.
I'm guessing that they were aware that Bird is a member of the Celtics so he'd have been cut some slack - at least in terms of the initial charges - pending further investigation.  I'd say it doesn't look too good for him at this point.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hwangjini_1 on September 08, 2018, 11:48:58 AM
Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.
is it possible the celtics offer bird a buyout slightly larger than the salary so as to remove the overage to the salary cap?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: nickagneta on September 08, 2018, 11:57:18 AM
Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.

He could have been part of a package to get under the tax that returned a future pick or something.

Now they'll have to send out his salary in cash plus a second to get rid of him.
I'd be surprised if any team would trade for him.  The PR would be really bad.
Not really. The C's would send him out, a million dollars and a 2nd round pick. The team receiving him would announce that they are immediately releasing him, so he would never be a part of the team. It would be more a transfer of money than a trade for a player.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 08, 2018, 12:02:26 PM
We never should have given him the roster spot in the first place. Scrubs shouldn’t be bringing the team bad publicity.
are you saying that somehow the celtics management should have foreseen this? otherwise, i am not sure of your opening statement.

next, if the charges by the police are accurate, bird is in big trouble, as he should be.

but it is still early and the reports are not set in place. i wont rush to judgement and will wait to see more.

i hope the charges are not accurate. but if they are, jail time for bird might result.

too bad. i really thought he had a chance to do well with the celtics. and now he may have frittered away his biggest chance in his life.

They are two different statements.

1. We shouldn't have signed him.  He's a fringe player, added to other fringe players we already had.  We should have given him a take-it-or-leave-it two-way deal, and rostered a potential rotation player.

2. Scrubs should be smart enough to know they're hanging on in the NBA by a thread, and should take steps to ensure they don't put themselves in compromising situations.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: timpiker on September 08, 2018, 12:08:02 PM
I would not be surprised but when/if the C's confirm this - he's gone.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 08, 2018, 12:09:17 PM
Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.
is it possible the celtics offer bird a buyout slightly larger than the salary so as to remove the overage to the salary cap?

No.  Whatever we pay him goes on our salary cap.  The only way we avoid some sort of cap hit would be if he agreed to a buyout of $0, which is exceedingly unlikely.

nick's scenario is the most likely:  we ship him to a another team with enough money to cover his salary and then some, and then they cut him.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Celtics4ever on September 08, 2018, 12:21:22 PM
Waiting to hear the full story until I pass judgment.   
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 08, 2018, 12:48:53 PM
People have to realize this is all allegations at the moment. He could have been set up. Or maybe he felt his life was in danger or something. No one knows the details.

It’s unfortunate that this situation has  occurred however.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 08, 2018, 01:03:33 PM
People have to realize this is all allegations at the moment. He could have been set up. Or maybe he felt his life was in danger or something. No one knows the details.

We know that the police believe they have probable cause for assault, kidnapping and strangulation.  We know he's in custody, hospitalized, and being evaluated.  We know his alleged victim was hospitalized for injuries.

While he's innocent until proven guilty, the very preliminary details aren't spectacular for him.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Tr1boy on September 08, 2018, 01:09:26 PM
We don't know what really happened....so until we do,  I'm going to be  :-X
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Cman on September 08, 2018, 01:16:52 PM
It doesn’t look good and I suspect he’ll be cut.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: RLewis35 on September 08, 2018, 01:20:27 PM
If true (and it doesn’t look good for him), can we void his contract? Is there a moral terpitude or criminal behavior clause built in?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: footey on September 08, 2018, 01:25:30 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Tr1boy on September 08, 2018, 01:34:22 PM
It doesn’t look good and I suspect he’ll be cut.

nope team should not

counselling or treatment program etc

1 chance though. 

Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tazzmaniac on September 08, 2018, 01:56:20 PM
It doesn’t look good and I suspect he’ll be cut.

nope team should not

counselling or treatment program etc

1 chance though.
So if the initial reports are true that he assaulted and strangled a woman, you think he should remain a Celtic and just get some treatment? 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on September 08, 2018, 01:56:24 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on September 08, 2018, 01:57:20 PM
It doesn’t look good and I suspect he’ll be cut.

nope team should not

counselling or treatment program etc

1 chance though.
So if the initial reports are true that he assaulted and strangled a woman, you think he should remain a Celtic and just get some treatment?

Yeah, not a well thought out comment.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 08, 2018, 01:58:07 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bogg on September 08, 2018, 02:10:55 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.

I mean, I suppose best-case scenario would be something like Bird has a previously-diagnosed mental health condition and either there was a change in his medication or something interacted with his medication in a negative way. Assuming the other person isn't hurt too badly (and I have no information on which to base that assumption) I could see the team giving him some time to focus on getting right with his doctor and letting him come back in a few weeks with the equivalent of a doctor's note if that were the case, particularly given the league's recent focus on mental health.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 08, 2018, 02:46:31 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.
so everyone who’s ever been arrested was guilty of a crime ? That’s not true
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hpantazo on September 08, 2018, 02:58:29 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.
so everyone who’s ever been arrested was guilty of a crime ? That’s not true

Nobody said that. What they said is, from the facts that we do know so far, it doesn't look good at all for Jabari.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Emmette Bryant on September 08, 2018, 03:07:32 PM
Waiting to hear the full story until I pass judgment.

TP for talking like a grown up.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 08, 2018, 03:34:39 PM
Let’s say he’s waived... who should we sign? I guess an open roster spot isn’t the worst thing in the world for waiver wire veterans

It just sucks. He could've had a great career here. He could shoot and dunk. His name was Bird.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 08, 2018, 03:37:34 PM
Jaylen brown tweeted 5 hours ago and deleted it

https://twitter.com/FCHWPO/status/1038368745540988929

It was “smh” and a face palm emoji

Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 08, 2018, 03:39:51 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.
so everyone who’s ever been arrested was guilty of a crime ? That’s not true

Nobody said that. What they said is, from the facts that we do know so far, it doesn't look good at all for Jabari.
why was Jason kidd allowed to keep playing after he beat his wife and the DUI?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 08, 2018, 03:44:57 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.
so everyone who’s ever been arrested was guilty of a crime ? That’s not true

Nobody said that. What they said is, from the facts that we do know so far, it doesn't look good at all for Jabari.
why was Jason kidd allowed to keep playing after he beat his wife and the DUI?

Because he was Jason Kidd.  Not the 14th/15th player on a roster. 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 08, 2018, 03:47:19 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.
so everyone who’s ever been arrested was guilty of a crime ? That’s not true

Nobody said that. What they said is, from the facts that we do know so far, it doesn't look good at all for Jabari.
why was Jason kidd allowed to keep playing after he beat his wife and the DUI?

Because he was Jason Kidd.  Not the 14th/15th player on a roster.
isnt that a double standard ? Teams and fans look the other way at crimes if one criminal bounces a ball better than another criminal.

You can’t condemn a person like Jabari bird and then look the other way at Jason Kidd. It’s hypocrisy right
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Ogaju on September 08, 2018, 03:48:23 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.
so everyone who’s ever been arrested was guilty of a crime ? That’s not true

Nobody said that. What they said is, from the facts that we do know so far, it doesn't look good at all for Jabari.
why was Jason kidd allowed to keep playing after he beat his wife and the DUI?

Because he was Jason Kidd.  Not the 14th/15th player on a roster.
isnt that a double standard ? Teams and fans look the other way at crimes if one criminal bounces a ball better than another criminal.

It also was another age and another time. Jason would not get away with that at this time.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 08, 2018, 03:54:06 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.
so everyone who’s ever been arrested was guilty of a crime ? That’s not true

Nobody said that. What they said is, from the facts that we do know so far, it doesn't look good at all for Jabari.
why was Jason kidd allowed to keep playing after he beat his wife and the DUI?

Because he was Jason Kidd.  Not the 14th/15th player on a roster.
isnt that a double standard ? Teams and fans look the other way at crimes if one criminal bounces a ball better than another criminal.

You can’t condemn a person like Jabari bird and then look the other way at Jason Kidd. It’s hypocrisy right

Of course, its a double standard.  It's been going on forever.    I'm not saying its right but there's a reason why a star can get away with things that end of bench guys hanging on for dear life can't.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: vjcsmoke on September 08, 2018, 04:15:06 PM
Wow, talk about a way to end your professional career.  And it hadn't even really gotten off the ground yet.  Domestic violence is just not acceptable in this day and age!
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: SHAQATTACK on September 08, 2018, 04:36:01 PM
will he be a Jail Bird ?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JSD on September 08, 2018, 04:51:10 PM
Spoke to a few people. This is legit he’s gone
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: jpotter33 on September 08, 2018, 05:21:06 PM
Perhaps we can now bring back Larkin (assuming he does in fact get waived). Has anyone heard if he signed anywhere else yet? Would like him back as an end-of-the-bench guard option to bring us energy and playmaking.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 08, 2018, 05:47:48 PM
Perhaps we can now bring back Larkin (assuming he does in fact get waived). Has anyone heard if he signed anywhere else yet? Would like him back as an end-of-the-bench guard option to bring us energy and playmaking.
larkin signed overseas

Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Emmette Bryant on September 08, 2018, 05:50:33 PM
notes on the NBA domestic abuse policy

http://www.celticslife.com/2018/09/notes-on-nbas-domestic-abuse-policy.html
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: footey on September 08, 2018, 06:14:40 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.
so everyone who’s ever been arrested was guilty of a crime ? That’s not true

Nobody said that. What they said is, from the facts that we do know so far, it doesn't look good at all for Jabari.
why was Jason kidd allowed to keep playing after he beat his wife and the DUI?

Because he was Jason Kidd.  Not the 14th/15th player on a roster.
isnt that a double standard ? Teams and fans look the other way at crimes if one criminal bounces a ball better than another criminal.

It also was another age and another time. Jason would not get away with that at this time.

Yeah right. If Jason Kidd was cut 29 teams would line up to sign him.

If Jayson Tatum did this would we cut him?  Get real bro.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 08, 2018, 07:04:09 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.

I mean, I suppose best-case scenario would be something like Bird has a previously-diagnosed mental health condition and either there was a change in his medication or something interacted with his medication in a negative way. Assuming the other person isn't hurt too badly (and I have no information on which to base that assumption) I could see the team giving him some time to focus on getting right with his doctor and letting him come back in a few weeks with the equivalent of a doctor's note if that were the case, particularly given the league's recent focus on mental health.

Lol no one is going to accept a bad reaction to medication as an excuse for putting a woman in the hospital.

Forget basketball, Jailbari will be lucky to keep his freedom..
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: smokeablount on September 08, 2018, 07:43:38 PM
[dang] it Jabari
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 08, 2018, 08:16:24 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.

I mean, I suppose best-case scenario would be something like Bird has a previously-diagnosed mental health condition and either there was a change in his medication or something interacted with his medication in a negative way. Assuming the other person isn't hurt too badly (and I have no information on which to base that assumption) I could see the team giving him some time to focus on getting right with his doctor and letting him come back in a few weeks with the equivalent of a doctor's note if that were the case, particularly given the league's recent focus on mental health.

Lol no one is going to accept a bad reaction to medication as an excuse for putting a woman in the hospital.

Forget basketball, Jailbari will be lucky to keep his freedom..

People routinely commit more severe acts of violence without legal ramifications.  The mental health court system intervenes and requires a patient be compliant with community mental health teatment; when they aren't, they're involuntarily committed to a state inpatient psychiatric hospital. 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hpantazo on September 08, 2018, 08:37:19 PM
Spoke to a few people. This is legit he’s gone

Wow. Whatever you learned made you quickly change your mind on this. Can we ask what did you hear?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Kuberski33 on September 08, 2018, 08:41:30 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.
so everyone who’s ever been arrested was guilty of a crime ? That’s not true

Nobody said that. What they said is, from the facts that we do know so far, it doesn't look good at all for Jabari.
why was Jason kidd allowed to keep playing after he beat his wife and the DUI?

Because he was Jason Kidd.  Not the 14th/15th player on a roster.
isnt that a double standard ? Teams and fans look the other way at crimes if one criminal bounces a ball better than another criminal.

You can’t condemn a person like Jabari bird and then look the other way at Jason Kidd. It’s hypocrisy right
Welcome to the real world - the one where the amount of slack you're cut is directly proportional to your ability to generate revenue for your employer.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hpantazo on September 08, 2018, 08:45:10 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.
so everyone who’s ever been arrested was guilty of a crime ? That’s not true

Nobody said that. What they said is, from the facts that we do know so far, it doesn't look good at all for Jabari.
why was Jason kidd allowed to keep playing after he beat his wife and the DUI?

Because he was Jason Kidd.  Not the 14th/15th player on a roster.
isnt that a double standard ? Teams and fans look the other way at crimes if one criminal bounces a ball better than another criminal.

You can’t condemn a person like Jabari bird and then look the other way at Jason Kidd. It’s hypocrisy right
Welcome to the real world - the one where the amount of slack you're cut is directly proportional to your ability to generate revenue for your employer.

Just look at how much slack the majority of the country is willing to cut Trump for example as long as they believe the economy is doing well
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on September 08, 2018, 08:48:20 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.

I mean, I suppose best-case scenario would be something like Bird has a previously-diagnosed mental health condition and either there was a change in his medication or something interacted with his medication in a negative way. Assuming the other person isn't hurt too badly (and I have no information on which to base that assumption) I could see the team giving him some time to focus on getting right with his doctor and letting him come back in a few weeks with the equivalent of a doctor's note if that were the case, particularly given the league's recent focus on mental health.

Lol no one is going to accept a bad reaction to medication as an excuse for putting a woman in the hospital.

Forget basketball, Jailbari will be lucky to keep his freedom..

People routinely commit more severe acts of violence without legal ramifications.  The mental health court system intervenes and requires a patient be compliant with community mental health teatment; when they aren't, they're involuntarily committed to a state inpatient psychiatric hospital.

The mental health defense is going to be a tough sell without any history of it. Fairly certain if Bird had any issues the team would have been privy to it (hipaa be [dang]ed) and wouldn't have signed him. You just don't take that risk for a bench warmer.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Celtics4ever on September 08, 2018, 08:59:22 PM
It certainly looks bad for him.   
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Chris22 on September 08, 2018, 09:30:47 PM
I wonder if Bird ever suffered a concussion.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 08, 2018, 09:31:25 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.

I mean, I suppose best-case scenario would be something like Bird has a previously-diagnosed mental health condition and either there was a change in his medication or something interacted with his medication in a negative way. Assuming the other person isn't hurt too badly (and I have no information on which to base that assumption) I could see the team giving him some time to focus on getting right with his doctor and letting him come back in a few weeks with the equivalent of a doctor's note if that were the case, particularly given the league's recent focus on mental health.

Lol no one is going to accept a bad reaction to medication as an excuse for putting a woman in the hospital.

Forget basketball, Jailbari will be lucky to keep his freedom..

People routinely commit more severe acts of violence without legal ramifications.  The mental health court system intervenes and requires a patient be compliant with community mental health teatment; when they aren't, they're involuntarily committed to a state inpatient psychiatric hospital.

The mental health defense is going to be a tough sell without any history of it. Fairly certain if Bird had any issues the team would have been privy to it (hipaa be [dang]ed) and wouldn't have signed him. You just don't take that risk for a bench warmer.

Yeah, it's pretty unlikely that Bird is psychotic and no one has noticed, I was just responding to the poster above.  There are some interesting scenarios that make for good arguments. Hard to parse psychopathology from criminal behavior, and then draw a subjective line for punishment somewhere
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Ogaju on September 08, 2018, 09:31:39 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.
so everyone who’s ever been arrested was guilty of a crime ? That’s not true

Nobody said that. What they said is, from the facts that we do know so far, it doesn't look good at all for Jabari.
why was Jason kidd allowed to keep playing after he beat his wife and the DUI?

Because he was Jason Kidd.  Not the 14th/15th player on a roster.
isnt that a double standard ? Teams and fans look the other way at crimes if one criminal bounces a ball better than another criminal.

It also was another age and another time. Jason would not get away with that at this time.

Yeah right. If Jason Kidd was cut 29 teams would line up to sign him.

If Jayson Tatum did this would we cut him?  Get real bro.

Just my opinion. There is little tolerance for guys that assault women. Have you not noticed?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: SparzWizard on September 08, 2018, 09:40:40 PM
He's gone. Outta here.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 08, 2018, 10:15:13 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.

I mean, I suppose best-case scenario would be something like Bird has a previously-diagnosed mental health condition and either there was a change in his medication or something interacted with his medication in a negative way. Assuming the other person isn't hurt too badly (and I have no information on which to base that assumption) I could see the team giving him some time to focus on getting right with his doctor and letting him come back in a few weeks with the equivalent of a doctor's note if that were the case, particularly given the league's recent focus on mental health.

Lol no one is going to accept a bad reaction to medication as an excuse for putting a woman in the hospital.

Forget basketball, Jailbari will be lucky to keep his freedom..

People routinely commit more severe acts of violence without legal ramifications.  The mental health court system intervenes and requires a patient be compliant with community mental health teatment; when they aren't, they're involuntarily committed to a state inpatient psychiatric hospital.

The mental health defense is going to be a tough sell without any history of it. Fairly certain if Bird had any issues the team would have been privy to it (hipaa be [dang]ed) and wouldn't have signed him. You just don't take that risk for a bench warmer.

Yeah, it's pretty unlikely that Bird is psychotic and no one has noticed, I was just responding to the poster above.  There are some interesting scenarios that make for good arguments. Hard to parse psychopathology from criminal behavior, and then draw a subjective line for punishment somewhere

There generally has to be some distance from reality for someone to use the "Hey I'm crazy" excuse barring some frontal lobe injury. Bird was on knocking on the door of the NBA. He's going to get prosecuted and jailed..
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 08, 2018, 11:14:09 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.

I mean, I suppose best-case scenario would be something like Bird has a previously-diagnosed mental health condition and either there was a change in his medication or something interacted with his medication in a negative way. Assuming the other person isn't hurt too badly (and I have no information on which to base that assumption) I could see the team giving him some time to focus on getting right with his doctor and letting him come back in a few weeks with the equivalent of a doctor's note if that were the case, particularly given the league's recent focus on mental health.

Lol no one is going to accept a bad reaction to medication as an excuse for putting a woman in the hospital.

Forget basketball, Jailbari will be lucky to keep his freedom..

People routinely commit more severe acts of violence without legal ramifications.  The mental health court system intervenes and requires a patient be compliant with community mental health teatment; when they aren't, they're involuntarily committed to a state inpatient psychiatric hospital.

The mental health defense is going to be a tough sell without any history of it. Fairly certain if Bird had any issues the team would have been privy to it (hipaa be [dang]ed) and wouldn't have signed him. You just don't take that risk for a bench warmer.

Yeah, it's pretty unlikely that Bird is psychotic and no one has noticed, I was just responding to the poster above.  There are some interesting scenarios that make for good arguments. Hard to parse psychopathology from criminal behavior, and then draw a subjective line for punishment somewhere

There generally has to be some distance from reality for someone to use the "Hey I'm crazy" excuse barring some frontal lobe injury. Bird was on knocking on the door of the NBA. He's going to get prosecuted and jailed..

Yeah, he would need to be very clearly decompensated in most states, but for an oddball like California or Ohio.  Again, I don't believe this is the case, but it wouldn't be uncommon for him to have his first psychotic episode at age 24.  So it's possible.  And if that's the case, no big deal -- we can start a new "get well soon" thread for Jabari.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 08, 2018, 11:24:09 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.

I mean, I suppose best-case scenario would be something like Bird has a previously-diagnosed mental health condition and either there was a change in his medication or something interacted with his medication in a negative way. Assuming the other person isn't hurt too badly (and I have no information on which to base that assumption) I could see the team giving him some time to focus on getting right with his doctor and letting him come back in a few weeks with the equivalent of a doctor's note if that were the case, particularly given the league's recent focus on mental health.

Lol no one is going to accept a bad reaction to medication as an excuse for putting a woman in the hospital.

Forget basketball, Jailbari will be lucky to keep his freedom..

People routinely commit more severe acts of violence without legal ramifications.  The mental health court system intervenes and requires a patient be compliant with community mental health teatment; when they aren't, they're involuntarily committed to a state inpatient psychiatric hospital.

The mental health defense is going to be a tough sell without any history of it. Fairly certain if Bird had any issues the team would have been privy to it (hipaa be [dang]ed) and wouldn't have signed him. You just don't take that risk for a bench warmer.

Yeah, it's pretty unlikely that Bird is psychotic and no one has noticed, I was just responding to the poster above.  There are some interesting scenarios that make for good arguments. Hard to parse psychopathology from criminal behavior, and then draw a subjective line for punishment somewhere
its very possible he is psychotic. Or has mental issues. A nonexistent  history doesn’t mean anything. Remember keyon doolings issue? Or Delonte west? Royce white. Kevin loves Mental health problems in nba players are real, and a lot of times these people hide it for fear
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 08, 2018, 11:34:32 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.

I mean, I suppose best-case scenario would be something like Bird has a previously-diagnosed mental health condition and either there was a change in his medication or something interacted with his medication in a negative way. Assuming the other person isn't hurt too badly (and I have no information on which to base that assumption) I could see the team giving him some time to focus on getting right with his doctor and letting him come back in a few weeks with the equivalent of a doctor's note if that were the case, particularly given the league's recent focus on mental health.

Lol no one is going to accept a bad reaction to medication as an excuse for putting a woman in the hospital.

Forget basketball, Jailbari will be lucky to keep his freedom..

People routinely commit more severe acts of violence without legal ramifications.  The mental health court system intervenes and requires a patient be compliant with community mental health teatment; when they aren't, they're involuntarily committed to a state inpatient psychiatric hospital.

The mental health defense is going to be a tough sell without any history of it. Fairly certain if Bird had any issues the team would have been privy to it (hipaa be [dang]ed) and wouldn't have signed him. You just don't take that risk for a bench warmer.

Yeah, it's pretty unlikely that Bird is psychotic and no one has noticed, I was just responding to the poster above.  There are some interesting scenarios that make for good arguments. Hard to parse psychopathology from criminal behavior, and then draw a subjective line for punishment somewhere
its very possible he is psychotic. Or has mental issues. A nonexistent  history doesn’t mean anything. Remember keyon doolings issue? Or Delonte west? Royce white. Kevin loves Mental health problems in nba players are real, and a lot of times these people hide it for fear

Kevin Love means non-violent stuff like depression. That's the cause celebre. Putting women in hospital beds by beating the ish out of them is not going to be on any NBA Cares commercials. He's catching three major charges..
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 08, 2018, 11:36:31 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.

I mean, I suppose best-case scenario would be something like Bird has a previously-diagnosed mental health condition and either there was a change in his medication or something interacted with his medication in a negative way. Assuming the other person isn't hurt too badly (and I have no information on which to base that assumption) I could see the team giving him some time to focus on getting right with his doctor and letting him come back in a few weeks with the equivalent of a doctor's note if that were the case, particularly given the league's recent focus on mental health.

Lol no one is going to accept a bad reaction to medication as an excuse for putting a woman in the hospital.

Forget basketball, Jailbari will be lucky to keep his freedom..

People routinely commit more severe acts of violence without legal ramifications.  The mental health court system intervenes and requires a patient be compliant with community mental health teatment; when they aren't, they're involuntarily committed to a state inpatient psychiatric hospital.

The mental health defense is going to be a tough sell without any history of it. Fairly certain if Bird had any issues the team would have been privy to it (hipaa be [dang]ed) and wouldn't have signed him. You just don't take that risk for a bench warmer.

Yeah, it's pretty unlikely that Bird is psychotic and no one has noticed, I was just responding to the poster above.  There are some interesting scenarios that make for good arguments. Hard to parse psychopathology from criminal behavior, and then draw a subjective line for punishment somewhere
its very possible he is psychotic. Or has mental issues. A nonexistent  history doesn’t mean anything. Remember keyon doolings issue? Or Delonte west? Royce white. Kevin loves Mental health problems in nba players are real, and a lot of times these people hide it for fear

It is possible that he has serious mental illness, like psychosis -- I just looked and he actually just turned 24 in July, where it could be his first major episode. 

I think most would argue one has mental health issues to strangle/kidnap someone, right? Or am I wrong there? I remember trying to keep quiet about Aaron Hernandez's mental health even after his suicide because most people understandably found his behavior stomach churning.  But to be fair, he was also a very sick person.   
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 08, 2018, 11:40:25 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.

I mean, I suppose best-case scenario would be something like Bird has a previously-diagnosed mental health condition and either there was a change in his medication or something interacted with his medication in a negative way. Assuming the other person isn't hurt too badly (and I have no information on which to base that assumption) I could see the team giving him some time to focus on getting right with his doctor and letting him come back in a few weeks with the equivalent of a doctor's note if that were the case, particularly given the league's recent focus on mental health.

Lol no one is going to accept a bad reaction to medication as an excuse for putting a woman in the hospital.

Forget basketball, Jailbari will be lucky to keep his freedom..

People routinely commit more severe acts of violence without legal ramifications.  The mental health court system intervenes and requires a patient be compliant with community mental health teatment; when they aren't, they're involuntarily committed to a state inpatient psychiatric hospital.

The mental health defense is going to be a tough sell without any history of it. Fairly certain if Bird had any issues the team would have been privy to it (hipaa be [dang]ed) and wouldn't have signed him. You just don't take that risk for a bench warmer.

Yeah, it's pretty unlikely that Bird is psychotic and no one has noticed, I was just responding to the poster above.  There are some interesting scenarios that make for good arguments. Hard to parse psychopathology from criminal behavior, and then draw a subjective line for punishment somewhere
its very possible he is psychotic. Or has mental issues. A nonexistent  history doesn’t mean anything. Remember keyon doolings issue? Or Delonte west? Royce white. Kevin loves Mental health problems in nba players are real, and a lot of times these people hide it for fear

It is possible that he has serious mental illness, like psychosis -- I just looked and he actually just turned 24 in July, where it could be his first major episode. 

I think most would argue one has mental health issues to strangle/kidnap someone, right? Or am I wrong there? I remember trying to keep quiet about Aaron Hernandez's mental health even after his suicide because most people understandably found his behavior stomach churning.  But to be fair, he was also a very sick person.

That's a philosophical question more than anything. One could argue that criminAlity is mental illness but from the perspective of societal health it really doesn't matter. Unless some form of extreme distance from reality is established, responsibility for ones crimes is a first principle
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 09, 2018, 12:03:58 AM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.

I mean, I suppose best-case scenario would be something like Bird has a previously-diagnosed mental health condition and either there was a change in his medication or something interacted with his medication in a negative way. Assuming the other person isn't hurt too badly (and I have no information on which to base that assumption) I could see the team giving him some time to focus on getting right with his doctor and letting him come back in a few weeks with the equivalent of a doctor's note if that were the case, particularly given the league's recent focus on mental health.

Lol no one is going to accept a bad reaction to medication as an excuse for putting a woman in the hospital.

Forget basketball, Jailbari will be lucky to keep his freedom..

People routinely commit more severe acts of violence without legal ramifications.  The mental health court system intervenes and requires a patient be compliant with community mental health teatment; when they aren't, they're involuntarily committed to a state inpatient psychiatric hospital.

The mental health defense is going to be a tough sell without any history of it. Fairly certain if Bird had any issues the team would have been privy to it (hipaa be [dang]ed) and wouldn't have signed him. You just don't take that risk for a bench warmer.

Yeah, it's pretty unlikely that Bird is psychotic and no one has noticed, I was just responding to the poster above.  There are some interesting scenarios that make for good arguments. Hard to parse psychopathology from criminal behavior, and then draw a subjective line for punishment somewhere
its very possible he is psychotic. Or has mental issues. A nonexistent  history doesn’t mean anything. Remember keyon doolings issue? Or Delonte west? Royce white. Kevin loves Mental health problems in nba players are real, and a lot of times these people hide it for fear

It is possible that he has serious mental illness, like psychosis -- I just looked and he actually just turned 24 in July, where it could be his first major episode. 

I think most would argue one has mental health issues to strangle/kidnap someone, right? Or am I wrong there? I remember trying to keep quiet about Aaron Hernandez's mental health even after his suicide because most people understandably found his behavior stomach churning.  But to be fair, he was also a very sick person.

That's a philosophical question more than anything. One could argue that criminAlity is mental illness but from the perspective of societal health it really doesn't matter. Unless some form of extreme distance from reality is established, responsibility for ones crimes is a first principle

TP, agree that safety and well-being of the masses should come before any one individual.  Without getting too wrapped up in psychobabble (unless you want to), how do we define the boundaries of "extreme distance from reality?"
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: footey on September 09, 2018, 04:56:45 AM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.
so everyone who’s ever been arrested was guilty of a crime ? That’s not true

Nobody said that. What they said is, from the facts that we do know so far, it doesn't look good at all for Jabari.
why was Jason kidd allowed to keep playing after he beat his wife and the DUI?

Because he was Jason Kidd.  Not the 14th/15th player on a roster.
isnt that a double standard ? Teams and fans look the other way at crimes if one criminal bounces a ball better than another criminal.

It also was another age and another time. Jason would not get away with that at this time.

Yeah right. If Jason Kidd was cut 29 teams would line up to sign him.

If Jayson Tatum did this would we cut him?  Get real bro.

Just my opinion. There is little tolerance for guys that assault women. Have you not noticed?

Yes that is of course true. But they haven’t changed to the point where fans of a team would clamor to cut their star after such an alleged incident.

 And if that is the case, how far have we really come?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Celtics4ever on September 09, 2018, 06:31:49 AM
The rates for violence for mental illness is actually the about same rate as for people without mental illness. 4% to 3.7% so it is very close.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686644/

It is a myth that most people with mental illness are violent.   I have worked in the field for over 25 years and I have been attacked only once.  I worked inpatient, outpatient, etc.

The news of course, does not make it seem this way and Lawyers mine this as a defense.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: nickagneta on September 09, 2018, 12:19:12 PM
The rates for violence for mental illness is actually the about same rate as for people without mental illness. 4% to 3.7% so it is very close.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686644/

It is a myth that most people with mental illness are violent.   I have worked in the field for over 25 years and I have been attacked only once.  I worked inpatient, outpatient, etc.

The news of course, does not make it seem this way and Lawyers mine this as a defense.
Finally, some sense when it comes to using mental illness as an excuse for what Bird may have done. Mental illness does not equate to violence. Or innocence. It's not an excuse, except in some very rare cases.

Also, you can have mental illness and still break the law knowingly. You can have mental illness and break the law through a crime of passion. You can have mental illness and just be stupid and break the law.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bellerephon on September 09, 2018, 01:36:04 PM
The rates for violence for mental illness is actually the about same rate as for people without mental illness. 4% to 3.7% so it is very close.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686644/

It is a myth that most people with mental illness are violent.   I have worked in the field for over 25 years and I have been attacked only once.  I worked inpatient, outpatient, etc.

The news of course, does not make it seem this way and Lawyers mine this as a defense.
Finally, some sense when it comes to using mental illness as an excuse for what Bird may have done. Mental illness does not equate to violence. Or innocence. It's not an excuse, except in some very rare cases.

Also, you can have mental illness and still break the law knowingly. You can have mental illness and break the law through a crime of passion. You can have mental illness and just be stupid and break the law.
This is a good point. Having a mental illness does not automatically allow one to use it as a defense against a criminal charge. There is a distinct difference between mental illness and not being legally responsible for one's actions.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 09, 2018, 02:43:22 PM
Wow, talk about a rush to judgment.

Can we wait until the facts come in before cutting him?

He's been arrested and there would be probable cause to do so. In addition, not only was strangulation one of the allegations, but the female sustained injuries significant enough to be treated at a hospital. Not sure what facts do you think would could out that will exonerate him. Once more details are released via arrest form I would wager that it will make Bird look even worse.

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing Bird coming out of this clean & it all being chalked up to some sort of a simple misunderstanding. 

Innocent until proven guilty but the stuff that's come out so far don't look promising in Bird's favor.

I mean, I suppose best-case scenario would be something like Bird has a previously-diagnosed mental health condition and either there was a change in his medication or something interacted with his medication in a negative way. Assuming the other person isn't hurt too badly (and I have no information on which to base that assumption) I could see the team giving him some time to focus on getting right with his doctor and letting him come back in a few weeks with the equivalent of a doctor's note if that were the case, particularly given the league's recent focus on mental health.

Lol no one is going to accept a bad reaction to medication as an excuse for putting a woman in the hospital.

Forget basketball, Jailbari will be lucky to keep his freedom..

People routinely commit more severe acts of violence without legal ramifications.  The mental health court system intervenes and requires a patient be compliant with community mental health teatment; when they aren't, they're involuntarily committed to a state inpatient psychiatric hospital.

The mental health defense is going to be a tough sell without any history of it. Fairly certain if Bird had any issues the team would have been privy to it (hipaa be [dang]ed) and wouldn't have signed him. You just don't take that risk for a bench warmer.

Yeah, it's pretty unlikely that Bird is psychotic and no one has noticed, I was just responding to the poster above.  There are some interesting scenarios that make for good arguments. Hard to parse psychopathology from criminal behavior, and then draw a subjective line for punishment somewhere
its very possible he is psychotic. Or has mental issues. A nonexistent  history doesn’t mean anything. Remember keyon doolings issue? Or Delonte west? Royce white. Kevin loves Mental health problems in nba players are real, and a lot of times these people hide it for fear

It is possible that he has serious mental illness, like psychosis -- I just looked and he actually just turned 24 in July, where it could be his first major episode. 

I think most would argue one has mental health issues to strangle/kidnap someone, right? Or am I wrong there? I remember trying to keep quiet about Aaron Hernandez's mental health even after his suicide because most people understandably found his behavior stomach churning.  But to be fair, he was also a very sick person.

That's a philosophical question more than anything. One could argue that criminAlity is mental illness but from the perspective of societal health it really doesn't matter. Unless some form of extreme distance from reality is established, responsibility for ones crimes is a first principle

TP, agree that safety and well-being of the masses should come before any one individual.  Without getting too wrapped up in psychobabble (unless you want to), how do we define the boundaries of "extreme distance from reality?"

Personally it should be like not knowing what decade it is or what planet we live on level psychosis
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JSD on September 09, 2018, 04:10:58 PM
Anyone know the details of the Bird contract? Can they cut him and get out from the cap hit? Every dollar counts when we are this close to the LT.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: billysan on September 09, 2018, 04:28:45 PM
Anyone know the details of the Bird contract? Can they cut him and get out from the cap hit? Every dollar counts when we are this close to the LT.
Roy answered early in this thread.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JSD on September 09, 2018, 04:58:52 PM
Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.


There it is
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 09, 2018, 05:32:11 PM
Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.


There it is

As a note, I believe that 50% of any money he loses due to suspension is removed from the luxury tax calculation.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JSD on September 09, 2018, 07:52:29 PM
Ainge might be wise to just keep him on the roster and try to throw him into a Morris dump trade if that's the direction Danny is considering near the deadline. With no signs of being under the LT for years to come, Celtics might be wise to avoid it this year if possible to put off the dreaded repeater that they'll eventually be paying.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Birdman on September 09, 2018, 08:00:45 PM
If guilty, no team may want him
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JSD on September 09, 2018, 08:14:12 PM
Spoke to a few people. This is legit he’s gone

Wow. Whatever you learned made you quickly change your mind on this. Can we ask what did you hear?

Domestic situations are so emotionally charged and often fueled by drugs and alcohol. False accusations and self harm to punish a cheating partner happens more often than people think. Responding officers often relying on word against word of the people involved, and physical evidence (Marks, bruises etc) so it can get a little tricky without witnesses. So when I first read the story I paused with a little skepticism, especially because the situation involves a professional athlete. I was assured by a trusted source that this was an ugly situation and that Bird messed up badly.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 09, 2018, 10:10:26 PM
Spoke to a few people. This is legit he’s gone

Wow. Whatever you learned made you quickly change your mind on this. Can we ask what did you hear?

Domestic situations are so emotionally charged and often fueled by drugs and alcohol. False accusations and self harm to punish a cheating partner happens more often than people think. Responding officers often relying on word against word of the people involved, and physical evidence (Marks, bruises etc) so it can get a little tricky without witnesses. So when I first read the story I paused with a little skepticism, especially because the situation involves a professional athlete. I was assured by a trusted source that this was an ugly situation and that Bird messed up badly.

The police put out a statement that he was being chArged with three mAjor counts. Did you think they were lying?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JSD on September 09, 2018, 10:35:30 PM
Spoke to a few people. This is legit he’s gone

Wow. Whatever you learned made you quickly change your mind on this. Can we ask what did you hear?

Domestic situations are so emotionally charged and often fueled by drugs and alcohol. False accusations and self harm to punish a cheating partner happens more often than people think. Responding officers often relying on word against word of the people involved, and physical evidence (Marks, bruises etc) so it can get a little tricky without witnesses. So when I first read the story I paused with a little skepticism, especially because the situation involves a professional athlete. I was assured by a trusted source that this was an ugly situation and that Bird messed up badly.

The police put out a statement that he was being chArged with three mAjor counts. Did you think they were lying?

UFC fighter Nick Diaz is facing the exact same charges as Bird. Diaz claims he was framed. There may even be a responding officer or two who believe Diaz, but the police still had to charge him based on the victim's statements and actions.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Diaz did or didn't do it, I have no idea, but there is a financial motive for the victim to lie that should be regarded. Diaz could be telling the truth. I trust the courts will figure it out.


https://fansided.com/2018/07/06/nick-diaz-framed-domestic-violence/


Luckily for this Uber driver, he was video recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hN0ryWMW2Q&t=170s
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Kuberski33 on September 09, 2018, 11:28:44 PM
Anyone remember a certain Celtics center whose number hangs in the rafters who had some real nasty (and somewhat similar) accusations surface near the end of his career.  He's revered still.

https://www.si.com/vault/1995/07/31/204991/the-worst-kind-of-coward-allegations-by-robert-parishs-former-wife-have-cast-a-new-light-on-an-old-hero

I'm amused by some of the comments about mental illness etc.  Some people are just not great guys. Even ones who are otherwise respected around the league.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tazzmaniac on September 09, 2018, 11:30:10 PM
Spoke to a few people. This is legit he’s gone

Wow. Whatever you learned made you quickly change your mind on this. Can we ask what did you hear?

Domestic situations are so emotionally charged and often fueled by drugs and alcohol. False accusations and self harm to punish a cheating partner happens more often than people think. Responding officers often relying on word against word of the people involved, and physical evidence (Marks, bruises etc) so it can get a little tricky without witnesses. So when I first read the story I paused with a little skepticism, especially because the situation involves a professional athlete. I was assured by a trusted source that this was an ugly situation and that Bird messed up badly.

The police put out a statement that he was being chArged with three mAjor counts. Did you think they were lying?

UFC fighter Nick Diaz is facing the exact same charges as Bird. Diaz claims he was framed. There may even be a responding officer or two who believe Diaz, but the police still had to charge him based on the victim's statements and actions.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Diaz did or didn't do it, I have no idea, but there is a financial motive for the victim to lie that should be regarded. Diaz could be telling the truth. I trust the courts will figure it out.


https://fansided.com/2018/07/06/nick-diaz-framed-domestic-violence/


Luckily for this Uber driver, he was video recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hN0ryWMW2Q&t=170s
The charges against Nick Diaz were dismissed.  In Bird's case, the strangulation charge makes it much harder to think it might be a false accusation. 

https://mmajunkie.com/2018/08/ufc-nick-diaz-what-next-after-domestic-assault-case-dismissed
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JSD on September 10, 2018, 01:11:51 AM
Spoke to a few people. This is legit he’s gone

Wow. Whatever you learned made you quickly change your mind on this. Can we ask what did you hear?

Domestic situations are so emotionally charged and often fueled by drugs and alcohol. False accusations and self harm to punish a cheating partner happens more often than people think. Responding officers often relying on word against word of the people involved, and physical evidence (Marks, bruises etc) so it can get a little tricky without witnesses. So when I first read the story I paused with a little skepticism, especially because the situation involves a professional athlete. I was assured by a trusted source that this was an ugly situation and that Bird messed up badly.

The police put out a statement that he was being chArged with three mAjor counts. Did you think they were lying?

UFC fighter Nick Diaz is facing the exact same charges as Bird. Diaz claims he was framed. There may even be a responding officer or two who believe Diaz, but the police still had to charge him based on the victim's statements and actions.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Diaz did or didn't do it, I have no idea, but there is a financial motive for the victim to lie that should be regarded. Diaz could be telling the truth. I trust the courts will figure it out.


https://fansided.com/2018/07/06/nick-diaz-framed-domestic-violence/


Luckily for this Uber driver, he was video recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hN0ryWMW2Q&t=170s
The charges against Nick Diaz were dismissed.  In Bird's case, the strangulation charge makes it much harder to think it might be a false accusation. 

https://mmajunkie.com/2018/08/ufc-nick-diaz-what-next-after-domestic-assault-case-dismissed

From the link I provided, very similar charges:

Quote
Diaz was released on an $18,000 bond the next day, officially charged with domestic battery by strangulation, a felony, and misdemeanor domestic battery.


Yes, TP, the case was dismissed:

Quote
Las Vegas Justice Court judge Amy Chelini dismissed the case with prejudice, which means charges cannot be filed on the matter later. She said the district attorney’s office “did the right thing,” while suggesting the alleged victim was not wholly truthful.

“The frustrating thing for me is we have a lot of true victims out there and when you see stuff like this, and you take strained resources from the true victims, and it’s frustrating for the court,” Chelini said. “But you did the right thing. And it’s not you. I’m more upset with people calling 9-1-1 because they’re p---ed off.”


https://ca.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/idCAKCN1LF2HB-OCASP
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 10, 2018, 09:29:40 AM
Spoke to a few people. This is legit he’s gone

Wow. Whatever you learned made you quickly change your mind on this. Can we ask what did you hear?

Domestic situations are so emotionally charged and often fueled by drugs and alcohol. False accusations and self harm to punish a cheating partner happens more often than people think. Responding officers often relying on word against word of the people involved, and physical evidence (Marks, bruises etc) so it can get a little tricky without witnesses. So when I first read the story I paused with a little skepticism, especially because the situation involves a professional athlete. I was assured by a trusted source that this was an ugly situation and that Bird messed up badly.

The police put out a statement that he was being chArged with three mAjor counts. Did you think they were lying?

UFC fighter Nick Diaz is facing the exact same charges as Bird. Diaz claims he was framed. There may even be a responding officer or two who believe Diaz, but the police still had to charge him based on the victim's statements and actions.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Diaz did or didn't do it, I have no idea, but there is a financial motive for the victim to lie that should be regarded. Diaz could be telling the truth. I trust the courts will figure it out.


https://fansided.com/2018/07/06/nick-diaz-framed-domestic-violence/


Luckily for this Uber driver, he was video recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hN0ryWMW2Q&t=170s
The charges against Nick Diaz were dismissed.  In Bird's case, the strangulation charge makes it much harder to think it might be a false accusation. 

https://mmajunkie.com/2018/08/ufc-nick-diaz-what-next-after-domestic-assault-case-dismissed

This isn’t always true. Sometimes these charges come from only a victim’s allegation (no ligature marks, etc.)  Sometimes marks on the upper chest that very well could be from the defendant trying to hold off or restrain the alleged victim are misconstrued, etc.

Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 10, 2018, 10:52:02 AM
Quote
Celtics shooting guard Jabari Bird remains at an undisclosed hospital, and it is not clear whether he will appear in the Brighton courthouse Monday to face charges stemming from a “domestic incident’’ where he allegedly assaulted, choked, and kidnapped a person on Friday, according to Boston police.

On Saturday, Bird was taken to a hospital for an “evaluation’’ that remains ongoing as of early Monday, according to Boston police. Once his release is approved by doctors, police will pick him up at the hospital, book him on the charges and bring him to Brighton Municipal Court, police said. However, it’s not clear, as of early Monday, if he will be medically cleared for release, police said.

No further information is being released, police said. Citing a state law that bars police from disclosing most details of an alleged incident of domestic violence, police have declined to disclose where Bird was arrested, what time it happened or the gender of the person he is alleged to have attacked.

Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: fairweatherfan on September 10, 2018, 10:59:11 AM
Quote
Celtics shooting guard Jabari Bird remains at an undisclosed hospital, and it is not clear whether he will appear in the Brighton courthouse Monday to face charges stemming from a “domestic incident’’ where he allegedly assaulted, choked, and kidnapped a person on Friday, according to Boston police.

On Saturday, Bird was taken to a hospital for an “evaluation’’ that remains ongoing as of early Monday, according to Boston police. Once his release is approved by doctors, police will pick him up at the hospital, book him on the charges and bring him to Brighton Municipal Court, police said. However, it’s not clear, as of early Monday, if he will be medically cleared for release, police said.

No further information is being released, police said. Citing a state law that bars police from disclosing most details of an alleged incident of domestic violence, police have declined to disclose where Bird was arrested, what time it happened or the gender of the person he is alleged to have attacked.


That "evaluation" term sounds an awful lot like a 48 or 72 hour psychiatric hold. Hope everybody, especially the victim, gets the help they need as this is sorted out.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 10, 2018, 11:11:26 AM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 10, 2018, 11:37:03 AM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hpantazo on September 10, 2018, 11:41:33 AM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 10, 2018, 11:42:21 AM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Moranis on September 10, 2018, 11:46:29 AM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.
what if she was the instigator?  what if she was the main aggressor?

These are almost always complicated situations.  It is better to just let things play out before making grandiose statements about things you know nothing about.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 10, 2018, 11:48:24 AM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.

I agree.  If true, what Bird did was legit psycho and he absolutely belongs in jail.  Whether or not, he's mentally ill, what he allegedly did was so sick & messed up, the mental health aspect of it shouldn't matter.

Unless he pulls off some convoluted twinkie defense, he's going to be in jail for quite some time.  Rightfully so.  And his NBA career is absolutely over.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 10, 2018, 11:51:10 AM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.
what if she was the instigator?  what if she was the main aggressor?

These are almost always complicated situations.  It is better to just let things play out before making grandiose statements about things you know nothing about.

Not sure how you can be the main aggressor if you're the one being kidnapped & borderline tortured.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 10, 2018, 11:51:50 AM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.
what if she was the instigator?  what if she was the main aggressor?

These are almost always complicated situations.  It is better to just let things play out before making grandiose statements about things you know nothing about.

Well that's not the police position. HE is the perpetrator and HE is the only one being charged. I'm not making "grandiose statements about things I know nothing about". I'm simply repeating facts that are publicly known and statements by the police that he WILL be charged with three major counts. Stop being obtuse. This is not some gray area situation.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hpantazo on September 10, 2018, 11:53:49 AM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.

I agree.  If true, what Bird did was legit psycho and he absolutely belongs in jail.  Whether or not, he's mentally ill, what he allegedly did was so sick & messed up, the mental health aspect of it shouldn't matter.

Unless he pulls off some convoluted twinkie defense, he's going to be in jail for quite some time.  Rightfully so.  And his NBA career is absolutely over.


The legal system differentiates between the two though. If he is legitimately mentally ill, then he gets sent to a psychiatric treatment facility instead of prison.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: fairweatherfan on September 10, 2018, 11:53:55 AM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.


It could mean the difference between imprisonment and institutionalization, and affect how people think about why it happened, but you're right that if the charges are accurate he's a danger to others and possibly himself either way.

It also feels gross to be discussing this but it could possibly have contract ramifications. I don't know nearly enough about standard language to say for sure though.


twinkie defense

TP for a real deep cut!  Here's the link  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkie_defense)for anyone who's interested.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 10, 2018, 12:00:53 PM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.

I agree.  If true, what Bird did was legit psycho and he absolutely belongs in jail.  Whether or not, he's mentally ill, what he allegedly did was so sick & messed up, the mental health aspect of it shouldn't matter.

Unless he pulls off some convoluted twinkie defense, he's going to be in jail for quite some time.  Rightfully so.  And his NBA career is absolutely over.


The legal system differentiates between the two though. If he is legitimately mentally ill, then he gets sent to a psychiatric treatment facility instead of prison.

I understand that but I really don't think the case of Jabari Bird, given the alleged circumstances (if true) come to light , is where people should be using mental health as an excuse, IMO.

That's what I was getting at there.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Sophomore on September 10, 2018, 12:33:28 PM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.

I agree.  If true, what Bird did was legit psycho and he absolutely belongs in jail.  Whether or not, he's mentally ill, what he allegedly did was so sick & messed up, the mental health aspect of it shouldn't matter.

Unless he pulls off some convoluted twinkie defense, he's going to be in jail for quite some time.  Rightfully so.  And his NBA career is absolutely over.


The legal system differentiates between the two though. If he is legitimately mentally ill, then he gets sent to a psychiatric treatment facility instead of prison.

I understand that but I really don't think the case of Jabari Bird, given the alleged circumstances (if true) come to light , is where people should be using mental health as an excuse, IMO.

That's what I was getting at there.

We have a new fact today (at least, it's new to me). According to the front page of celticsblog, Bird is also hospitalized. It doesn't say why.

I agree with what I take to be your point - I would be surprised if he has the kind of mental illness that would get him out of a criminal punishment. That would be something like paranoid delusions, and he was functioning at too high a level. But still, if he's in the hospital why is that? Does anybody know?

Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 10, 2018, 12:37:03 PM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.

I agree.  If true, what Bird did was legit psycho and he absolutely belongs in jail.  Whether or not, he's mentally ill, what he allegedly did was so sick & messed up, the mental health aspect of it shouldn't matter.

Unless he pulls off some convoluted twinkie defense, he's going to be in jail for quite some time.  Rightfully so.  And his NBA career is absolutely over.


The legal system differentiates between the two though. If he is legitimately mentally ill, then he gets sent to a psychiatric treatment facility instead of prison.

I understand that but I really don't think the case of Jabari Bird, given the alleged circumstances (if true) come to light , is where people should be using mental health as an excuse, IMO.

That's what I was getting at there.

We have a new fact today (at least, it's new to me). According to the front page of celticsblog, Bird is also hospitalized. It doesn't say why.

I agree with what I take to be your point - I would be surprised if he has the kind of mental illness that would get him out of a criminal punishment. That would be something like paranoid delusions, and he was functioning at too high a level. But still, if he's in the hospital why is that? Does anybody know?

He could be on suicide watch or something, we don't know. Seems he's headed right to his indictment hearing as soon as he gets out however..
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on September 10, 2018, 12:43:31 PM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.

I agree.  If true, what Bird did was legit psycho and he absolutely belongs in jail.  Whether or not, he's mentally ill, what he allegedly did was so sick & messed up, the mental health aspect of it shouldn't matter.

Unless he pulls off some convoluted twinkie defense, he's going to be in jail for quite some time.  Rightfully so.  And his NBA career is absolutely over.


The legal system differentiates between the two though. If he is legitimately mentally ill, then he gets sent to a psychiatric treatment facility instead of prison.

I understand that but I really don't think the case of Jabari Bird, given the alleged circumstances (if true) come to light , is where people should be using mental health as an excuse, IMO.

That's what I was getting at there.

We have a new fact today (at least, it's new to me). According to the front page of celticsblog, Bird is also hospitalized. It doesn't say why.

I agree with what I take to be your point - I would be surprised if he has the kind of mental illness that would get him out of a criminal punishment. That would be something like paranoid delusions, and he was functioning at too high a level. But still, if he's in the hospital why is that? Does anybody know?

Yeah, it's not new, it's mentioned a few times in the thread already. It's also on this page. I don't remember the OP and don't want to look back but I'm fairly certain it was mentioned there too.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on September 10, 2018, 12:49:40 PM
SEE YA JABARI

WE HARDLY KNEW YE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hwangjini_1 on September 10, 2018, 12:57:04 PM
guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 10, 2018, 01:05:42 PM
guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Heck philosophers have been discussing whether Free Will was in illusion since before Christ.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hpantazo on September 10, 2018, 01:08:28 PM
guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Do you mean jurors? Because voters don't decide the legal system or specific legal cases
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 10, 2018, 01:10:50 PM
guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Do you mean jurors? Because voters don't decide the legal system.

Um bro come on. Voters elect the legislators who write and pass the laws. The judiciary merely applies the law. Maybe watch some Schoolhouse rock?

Why do you think candidates attack each other as "soft on crime"?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hpantazo on September 10, 2018, 01:11:52 PM
guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Do you mean jurors? Because voters don't decide the legal system.

Um bro come on. Voters elect the legislators who write and pass the laws. The judiciary merely applies the law. Maybe watch some Schoolhouse rock?

It takes decades to change these laws, that's not the way it works.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 10, 2018, 01:13:06 PM
guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Do you mean jurors? Because voters don't decide the legal system.

Um bro come on. Voters elect the legislators who write and pass the laws. The judiciary merely applies the law. Maybe watch some Schoolhouse rock?

It takes decades to change these laws, that's not the way it works.

SO you believe in activist judges who legislate from the bench, got it. Again, leftist strategy since at least the 60's.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Moranis on September 10, 2018, 01:22:14 PM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.
what if she was the instigator?  what if she was the main aggressor?

These are almost always complicated situations.  It is better to just let things play out before making grandiose statements about things you know nothing about.

Not sure how you can be the main aggressor if you're the one being kidnapped & borderline tortured.
based on her words.  May very well be true, but as we saw from Nick Diaz (the link in this thread) those type of allegations aren't always true.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hpantazo on September 10, 2018, 02:17:48 PM
guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Do you mean jurors? Because voters don't decide the legal system.

Um bro come on. Voters elect the legislators who write and pass the laws. The judiciary merely applies the law. Maybe watch some Schoolhouse rock?

It takes decades to change these laws, that's not the way it works.

SO you believe in activist judges who legislate from the bench, got it. Again, leftist strategy since at least the 60's.

I’m not sure why you’re attacking me and making assumptions on what I believe in. I just asked for clarification on what you were trying to say, and pointed out that despite what anyone believes in, things don’t work that way. The possibility of Bird pleading insanity and going to a psychiatric facility is a legitimate possibility under our current system

Is that an excuse for him? I don’t know, because we don’t know exactly what happened
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hpantazo on September 10, 2018, 02:25:05 PM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.
what if she was the instigator?  what if she was the main aggressor?

These are almost always complicated situations.  It is better to just let things play out before making grandiose statements about things you know nothing about.

Not sure how you can be the main aggressor if you're the one being kidnapped & borderline tortured.
based on her words.  May very well be true, but as we saw from Nick Diaz (the link in this thread) those type of allegations aren't always true.

You’re assuming there were no other witnesses. We don’t know enough to make that assumption
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hwangjini_1 on September 10, 2018, 02:51:23 PM
guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Heck philosophers have been discussing whether Free Will was in illusion since before Christ.
you are really missing the boat is you think this is all a political agenda. this debate with the field of psychology has been going on in many countries for many years. the debate is not some sort of simply "them/us" political division rooted in the US. that is much too simple a rendering of the study of the human mind.

really, please read the book and you will understand all this much better than you do now.

it is not a question of "free will" as often taught in the US. it is about the human condition and the definition of humanity itself.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hwangjini_1 on September 10, 2018, 02:54:14 PM
guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Do you mean jurors? Because voters don't decide the legal system.

Um bro come on. Voters elect the legislators who write and pass the laws. The judiciary merely applies the law. Maybe watch some Schoolhouse rock?

It takes decades to change these laws, that's not the way it works.

SO you believe in activist judges who legislate from the bench, got it. Again, leftist strategy since at least the 60's.

I’m not sure why you’re attacking me and making assumptions on what I believe in. I just asked for clarification on what you were trying to say, and pointed out that despite what anyone believes in, things don’t work that way. The possibility of Bird pleading insanity and going to a psychiatric facility is a legitimate possibility under our current system

Is that an excuse for him? I don’t know, because we don’t know exactly what happened
jht, it seems, has a one-size-fits-all approach to the complexities of life.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Sophomore on September 10, 2018, 02:56:16 PM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.

I agree.  If true, what Bird did was legit psycho and he absolutely belongs in jail.  Whether or not, he's mentally ill, what he allegedly did was so sick & messed up, the mental health aspect of it shouldn't matter.

Unless he pulls off some convoluted twinkie defense, he's going to be in jail for quite some time.  Rightfully so.  And his NBA career is absolutely over.


The legal system differentiates between the two though. If he is legitimately mentally ill, then he gets sent to a psychiatric treatment facility instead of prison.

I understand that but I really don't think the case of Jabari Bird, given the alleged circumstances (if true) come to light , is where people should be using mental health as an excuse, IMO.

That's what I was getting at there.

We have a new fact today (at least, it's new to me). According to the front page of celticsblog, Bird is also hospitalized. It doesn't say why.

I agree with what I take to be your point - I would be surprised if he has the kind of mental illness that would get him out of a criminal punishment. That would be something like paranoid delusions, and he was functioning at too high a level. But still, if he's in the hospital why is that? Does anybody know?

Yeah, it's not new, it's mentioned a few times in the thread already. It's also on this page. I don't remember the OP and don't want to look back but I'm fairly certain it was mentioned there too.

It's true it was mentioned upthread, but I was responding to this set of posts because they didn't seem to take it into account.

Some people are emphasizing that if he committed the crime and knew right from wrong he has to be punished. I am on board with that. At the same time, I don't agree that we already know all the circumstances and I don't agree that they're irrelevant. Too easy to try and score political points instead of looking at the people and the situation.





Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 10, 2018, 02:57:48 PM
Let's get off the political tangent please.  This thread is in danger of going off the rails.  Get back on topic.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Moranis on September 10, 2018, 03:00:23 PM
I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.


Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.
what if she was the instigator?  what if she was the main aggressor?

These are almost always complicated situations.  It is better to just let things play out before making grandiose statements about things you know nothing about.

Not sure how you can be the main aggressor if you're the one being kidnapped & borderline tortured.
based on her words.  May very well be true, but as we saw from Nick Diaz (the link in this thread) those type of allegations aren't always true.

You’re assuming there were no other witnesses. We don’t know enough to make that assumption
and that was my point from the beginning.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Sophomore on September 10, 2018, 03:04:41 PM
Deleted; just saw the mod's ask to refrain from politics.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: gift on September 10, 2018, 03:23:58 PM
This may be an insensitive, although not entirely inappropriate, question. But if this whole thing is determined to be mental health related, is there any room for the Celtics to get an injury exemption for the roster spot?

Perhaps it opens up time for the 2-way guys to use up all of their eligibility with the big club. I expect the team to utilize their depth to get through the long regular season with the best chance at health for the playoffs.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bellerephon on September 10, 2018, 04:47:03 PM
I think people are getting ahead of themselves on the possibility of Bird using some sort of mental illness defense. He may very well claim, and indeed have, some sort of mental illness, but even if true it likely isn't going to be the basis for an insanity defense. Laws are pretty specific as to what sort of mental issue can qualify one to be judged not legally responsible for a criminal act. Jails are full of people with serious mental issues who have been nevertheless judged competent to stand trial and pay the price for their crimes.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on September 10, 2018, 06:59:38 PM
I think people are getting ahead of themselves on the possibility of Bird using some sort of mental illness defense. He may very well claim, and indeed have, some sort of mental illness, but even if true it likely isn't going to be the basis for an insanity defense. Laws are pretty specific as to what sort of mental issue can qualify one to be judged not legally responsible for a criminal act. Jails are full of people with serious mental issues who have been nevertheless judged competent to stand trial and pay the price for their crimes.

If only he had affluenza.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: csfansince60s on September 10, 2018, 08:00:53 PM
Has anyone read any news reports about the incident that use a masculine or feminine pronoun for the victim?

I haven't, and I find that a little odd.

A gay lover, and Bird being outed, would explain a lot, especially the 4th night stay in what is most likely the psych unit.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 10, 2018, 08:05:21 PM
Has anyone read any news reports about the incident that use a masculine or feminine pronoun for the victim?

I haven't, and I find that a little odd.

A gay lover, and Bird being outed, would explain a lot, especially the 4th night stay in what is most likely the psych unit.

One of the reports indicated that in MA, cops aren't allow to confirm a lot of the details about the victim, including their gender.  Under those circumstances, I'm surprised that they acknowledged that it was a romantic partner.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: csfansince60s on September 10, 2018, 08:20:23 PM
Has anyone read any news reports about the incident that use a masculine or feminine pronoun for the victim?

I haven't, and I find that a little odd.

A gay lover, and Bird being outed, would explain a lot, especially the 4th night stay in what is most likely the psych unit.

One of the reports indicated that in MA, cops aren't allow to confirm a lot of the details about the victim, including their gender.  Under those circumstances, I'm surprised that they acknowledged that it was a romantic partner.

TP, and thanx for the info.

Check this out, though pretty detailed...I find the "strangulation" sections interesting from a legal perspective.

https://www.mass.gov/files/2017-08/2017-domestic-violence-law-enforcement-guidelines.pdf

EDIT: Pretty weird, though that so few details about the incident are floating around....witnesses, circumstances, location, given the age of TMZ that we live in.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 10, 2018, 08:28:27 PM
Has anyone read any news reports about the incident that use a masculine or feminine pronoun for the victim?

I haven't, and I find that a little odd.

A gay lover, and Bird being outed, would explain a lot, especially the 4th night stay in what is most likely the psych unit.

One of the reports indicated that in MA, cops aren't allow to confirm a lot of the details about the victim, including their gender.  Under those circumstances, I'm surprised that they acknowledged that it was a romantic partner.

TP, and thanx for the info.

Check this out, though pretty detailed...I find the "strangulation" sections interesting from a legal perspective.

https://www.mass.gov/files/2017-08/2017-domestic-violence-law-enforcement-guidelines.pdf

EDIT: Pretty weird, though that so few details about the incident are floating around....witnesses, circumstances, location, given the age of TMZ that we live in.

Yeah, I'm surprised that there haven't been a lot of leaks.  I'm not sure if it's the cops being tight-lipped, the media choosing not to publish, or the media being lazy.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tazzmaniac on September 10, 2018, 11:16:34 PM
Jabari is still hospitalized. 

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2018/09/boston_celtics_jabari_bird_rem_1.html
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: footey on September 11, 2018, 09:00:45 AM
Has anyone read any news reports about the incident that use a masculine or feminine pronoun for the victim?

I haven't, and I find that a little odd.

A gay lover, and Bird being outed, would explain a lot, especially the 4th night stay in what is most likely the psych unit.

One of the reports indicated that in MA, cops aren't allow to confirm a lot of the details about the victim, including their gender.  Under those circumstances, I'm surprised that they acknowledged that it was a romantic partner.

TP, and thanx for the info.

Check this out, though pretty detailed...I find the "strangulation" sections interesting from a legal perspective.

https://www.mass.gov/files/2017-08/2017-domestic-violence-law-enforcement-guidelines.pdf

EDIT: Pretty weird, though that so few details about the incident are floating around....witnesses, circumstances, location, given the age of TMZ that we live in.

Yeah, I'm surprised that there haven't been a lot of leaks.  I'm not sure if it's the cops being tight-lipped, the media choosing not to publish, or the media being lazy.

Media is never lazy on sensational stories like this.  1 or 2 is more likely.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on September 11, 2018, 09:28:39 AM
Has anyone read any news reports about the incident that use a masculine or feminine pronoun for the victim?

I haven't, and I find that a little odd.

A gay lover, and Bird being outed, would explain a lot, especially the 4th night stay in what is most likely the psych unit.

One of the reports indicated that in MA, cops aren't allow to confirm a lot of the details about the victim, including their gender.  Under those circumstances, I'm surprised that they acknowledged that it was a romantic partner.

TP, and thanx for the info.

Check this out, though pretty detailed...I find the "strangulation" sections interesting from a legal perspective.

https://www.mass.gov/files/2017-08/2017-domestic-violence-law-enforcement-guidelines.pdf

EDIT: Pretty weird, though that so few details about the incident are floating around....witnesses, circumstances, location, given the age of TMZ that we live in.

Yeah, I'm surprised that there haven't been a lot of leaks.  I'm not sure if it's the cops being tight-lipped, the media choosing not to publish, or the media being lazy.

Most of the C's media is off during the next couple of weeks until training camp opens. Plus, let's not kid ourselves, Bird is a scrub. If this were Irving it would be national news. For example, if Alex Abrines would have a similar incident, would any Boston fan care?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Moranis on September 11, 2018, 10:02:36 AM
Has anyone read any news reports about the incident that use a masculine or feminine pronoun for the victim?

I haven't, and I find that a little odd.

A gay lover, and Bird being outed, would explain a lot, especially the 4th night stay in what is most likely the psych unit.

One of the reports indicated that in MA, cops aren't allow to confirm a lot of the details about the victim, including their gender.  Under those circumstances, I'm surprised that they acknowledged that it was a romantic partner.

TP, and thanx for the info.

Check this out, though pretty detailed...I find the "strangulation" sections interesting from a legal perspective.

https://www.mass.gov/files/2017-08/2017-domestic-violence-law-enforcement-guidelines.pdf

EDIT: Pretty weird, though that so few details about the incident are floating around....witnesses, circumstances, location, given the age of TMZ that we live in.

Yeah, I'm surprised that there haven't been a lot of leaks.  I'm not sure if it's the cops being tight-lipped, the media choosing not to publish, or the media being lazy.

Most of the C's media is off during the next couple of weeks until training camp opens. Plus, let's not kid ourselves, Bird is a scrub. If this were Irving it would be national news. For example, if Alex Abrines would have a similar incident, would any Boston fan care?
no, but the OKC media would be all over it.  The fact that a city the size of Boston hasn't been able to put out more information on something involving a Boston athlete is a bit odd.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: greece66 on September 11, 2018, 10:10:53 AM
Has anyone read any news reports about the incident that use a masculine or feminine pronoun for the victim?

I haven't, and I find that a little odd.

A gay lover, and Bird being outed, would explain a lot, especially the 4th night stay in what is most likely the psych unit.

One of the reports indicated that in MA, cops aren't allow to confirm a lot of the details about the victim, including their gender.  Under those circumstances, I'm surprised that they acknowledged that it was a romantic partner.

TP, and thanx for the info.

Check this out, though pretty detailed...I find the "strangulation" sections interesting from a legal perspective.

https://www.mass.gov/files/2017-08/2017-domestic-violence-law-enforcement-guidelines.pdf (https://www.mass.gov/files/2017-08/2017-domestic-violence-law-enforcement-guidelines.pdf)

EDIT: Pretty weird, though that so few details about the incident are floating around....witnesses, circumstances, location, given the age of TMZ that we live in.

Yeah, I'm surprised that there haven't been a lot of leaks.  I'm not sure if it's the cops being tight-lipped, the media choosing not to publish, or the media being lazy.

Most of the C's media is off during the next couple of weeks until training camp opens. Plus, let's not kid ourselves, Bird is a scrub. If this were Irving it would be national news. For example, if Alex Abrines would have a similar incident, would any Boston fan care?
no, but the OKC media would be all over it.  The fact that a city the size of Boston hasn't been able to put out more information on something involving a Boston athlete is a bit odd.

Or maybe they wait for reliable information to come out.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bellerephon on September 11, 2018, 10:11:55 AM
.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bellerephon on September 11, 2018, 10:15:38 AM
Has anyone read any news reports about the incident that use a masculine or feminine pronoun for the victim?

I haven't, and I find that a little odd.

A gay lover, and Bird being outed, would explain a lot, especially the 4th night stay in what is most likely the psych unit.

One of the reports indicated that in MA, cops aren't allow to confirm a lot of the details about the victim, including their gender.  Under those circumstances, I'm surprised that they acknowledged that it was a romantic partner.

I actually never saw that they confirmed it was a romantic partner. As far as I can remember it was referred to as a domestic violence incident. That could theoretically mean any member of his family or household including siblings, children, parents, grandparents, partners etc. I think we all suspect it is a romantic partner, but the police did not confirm that, at least to the best of my knowledge.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Moranis on September 11, 2018, 10:48:14 AM
Has anyone read any news reports about the incident that use a masculine or feminine pronoun for the victim?

I haven't, and I find that a little odd.

A gay lover, and Bird being outed, would explain a lot, especially the 4th night stay in what is most likely the psych unit.

One of the reports indicated that in MA, cops aren't allow to confirm a lot of the details about the victim, including their gender.  Under those circumstances, I'm surprised that they acknowledged that it was a romantic partner.

I actually never saw that they confirmed it was a romantic partner. As far as I can remember it was referred to as a domestic violence incident. That could theoretically mean any member of his family or household including siblings, children, parents, grandparents, partners etc. I think we all suspect it is a romantic partner, but the police did not confirm that, at least to the best of my knowledge.
Boston 25 reported it as a romantic partner.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 11, 2018, 11:53:22 AM
Has anyone read any news reports about the incident that use a masculine or feminine pronoun for the victim?

I haven't, and I find that a little odd.

A gay lover, and Bird being outed, would explain a lot, especially the 4th night stay in what is most likely the psych unit.

One of the reports indicated that in MA, cops aren't allow to confirm a lot of the details about the victim, including their gender.  Under those circumstances, I'm surprised that they acknowledged that it was a romantic partner.

TP, and thanx for the info.

Check this out, though pretty detailed...I find the "strangulation" sections interesting from a legal perspective.

https://www.mass.gov/files/2017-08/2017-domestic-violence-law-enforcement-guidelines.pdf (https://www.mass.gov/files/2017-08/2017-domestic-violence-law-enforcement-guidelines.pdf)

EDIT: Pretty weird, though that so few details about the incident are floating around....witnesses, circumstances, location, given the age of TMZ that we live in.

Yeah, I'm surprised that there haven't been a lot of leaks.  I'm not sure if it's the cops being tight-lipped, the media choosing not to publish, or the media being lazy.

Most of the C's media is off during the next couple of weeks until training camp opens. Plus, let's not kid ourselves, Bird is a scrub. If this were Irving it would be national news. For example, if Alex Abrines would have a similar incident, would any Boston fan care?
no, but the OKC media would be all over it.  The fact that a city the size of Boston hasn't been able to put out more information on something involving a Boston athlete is a bit odd.

Or maybe they wait for reliable information to come out.

Nah, our current media is a clown show who couldn't care less about accuracy. I think the media is just laying low because of all the puff pieces they wrote about Jabari and don't want to look like idiots..
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bogg on September 12, 2018, 07:44:25 PM
Lol no one is going to accept a bad reaction to medication as an excuse for putting a woman in the hospital.

Forget basketball, Jailbari will be lucky to keep his freedom..

At the date and time of the post there was no information available as to the extent of the injuries (to my knowledge, there's still nothing officially out there), and being treated at a hospital is different than being hurt badly enough to require inpatient care (i.e. an injured wrist might get treated there, but getting fitted for an air cast isn't exactly getting put in the hospital). Had it eventually come out that the person wasn't hurt particularly badly and there were some sort of mitigating circumstances regarding the need for a psychiatric hold it's possible the situation could have resolved less severely than it appeared it was headed.


It's looking worse and worse as time goes on though.

I think people are getting ahead of themselves on the possibility of Bird using some sort of mental illness defense. He may very well claim, and indeed have, some sort of mental illness, but even if true it likely isn't going to be the basis for an insanity defense. Laws are pretty specific as to what sort of mental issue can qualify one to be judged not legally responsible for a criminal act. Jails are full of people with serious mental issues who have been nevertheless judged competent to stand trial and pay the price for their crimes.

The original comment at least wasn't intended as some sort of discussion of possible legal defense. It was literally a best-case-scenario response to speculation as to whether there was any way Bird's not gone/in jail. "Best case scenario" isn't the same thing as "this is probably what happened".
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Celtics4ever on September 12, 2018, 08:31:33 PM
How bad is he hurt?   Or it could be mental breakdown but one would think he would have already been out if Domestic Violence injury.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: fairweatherfan on September 13, 2018, 12:32:00 PM
Details leaking out:

Quote
Details in the Jabari Bird case: He is accused of assaulting his girlfriend for four hours in his apartment. He’s accused of strangling her multiple times, including once until she lost consciousness.

https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/1040273862125072384 (https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/1040273862125072384)

This is horrible if true. That's not even a Ray Rice situation, that's a sustained assault that the victim is probably fortunate to have survived. Jabari will be lucky to see the outside of a prison for the next several years, and should never set foot on an NBA court again.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on September 13, 2018, 12:41:27 PM
Details leaking out:

Quote
Details in the Jabari Bird case: He is accused of assaulting his girlfriend for four hours in his apartment. He’s accused of strangling her multiple times, including once until she lost consciousness.

https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/1040273862125072384 (https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/1040273862125072384)

This is horrible if true. That's not even a Ray Rice situation, that's a sustained assault that the victim is probably fortunate to have survived. Jabari will be lucky to see the outside of a prison for the next several years, and should never set foot on an NBA court again.

He also added this:

Bird is accused of kicking her repeatedly in the stomach when she woke up. When she left, per the Commonwealth, Bird was in mental distress, so she left him in a safe place.

Bird will be held on $100k bail, $50k of which has to be cash (a point of some contention). His release will be pending conditions, including no drugs or alcohol, no weapons, and court-ordered supervision.

Bird is allowed to travel with the Celtics, if it’s court-approved. His supervision will include his high-school coach.

Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: fairweatherfan on September 13, 2018, 12:45:53 PM
Details leaking out:

Quote
Details in the Jabari Bird case: He is accused of assaulting his girlfriend for four hours in his apartment. He’s accused of strangling her multiple times, including once until she lost consciousness.

https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/1040273862125072384 (https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/1040273862125072384)

This is horrible if true. That's not even a Ray Rice situation, that's a sustained assault that the victim is probably fortunate to have survived. Jabari will be lucky to see the outside of a prison for the next several years, and should never set foot on an NBA court again.

He also added this:

Bird is accused of kicking her repeatedly in the stomach when she woke up. When she left, per the Commonwealth, Bird was in mental distress, so she left him in a safe place.

Bird will be held on $100k bail, $50k of which has to be cash (a point of some contention). His release will be pending conditions, including no drugs or alcohol, no weapons, and court-ordered supervision.

Bird is allowed to travel with the Celtics, if it’s court-approved. His supervision will include his high-school coach.

The "mental distress" seems consistent with my guess that he was under a psychiatric hold for the last several days. Would explain the unusually tight-lipped attitude around his hospital stay.

Also gonna go out on a limb and say he will not be doing any traveling with the Celtics. At least, I hope not.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on September 13, 2018, 12:55:53 PM
Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.


Keith Smith says otherwise

My guess is that Jabari Bird will be waived by the Boston Celtics now that court proceedings have begun. Boston could petition for Adam Silver to void Bird's contract under the new domestic violence policy in the NBA. This one could go on for a bit contract-wise.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bogg on September 13, 2018, 01:00:34 PM
Team put out a statement a couple minutes ago that boils down to "we're working with the league office on this", bit from the way it's phrased Jabari's gone and it's just a matter of how.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 13, 2018, 01:02:41 PM
Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.


Keith Smith says otherwise

My guess is that Jabari Bird will be waived by the Boston Celtics now that court proceedings have begun. Boston could petition for Adam Silver to void Bird's contract under the new domestic violence policy in the NBA. This one could go on for a bit contract-wise.

Which he followed up with:

Quote
To be very clear, this is simply a guess for how this is handled in terms of the cap/contract.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on September 13, 2018, 01:05:14 PM
Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.

Which he followed up with:

Quote
To be very clear, this is simply a guess for how this is handled in terms of the cap/contract.


Keith Smith says otherwise

My guess is that Jabari Bird will be waived by the Boston Celtics now that court proceedings have begun. Boston could petition for Adam Silver to void Bird's contract under the new domestic violence policy in the NBA. This one could go on for a bit contract-wise.

Of course, meaning he thinks they would proceed that way, but it's not questioning the ability to remove the contract off the books per the DV policy.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 13, 2018, 01:06:35 PM
Details leaking out:

Quote
Details in the Jabari Bird case: He is accused of assaulting his girlfriend for four hours in his apartment. He’s accused of strangling her multiple times, including once until she lost consciousness.

https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/1040273862125072384 (https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/1040273862125072384)

This is horrible if true. That's not even a Ray Rice situation, that's a sustained assault that the victim is probably fortunate to have survived. Jabari will be lucky to see the outside of a prison for the next several years, and should never set foot on an NBA court again.

Pretty much confirms what I heard thru a friend over the weekend.

I told people this was bad.  Real bad.

He tortured that woman.  She loses consciousness, wakes up, then he tortures her again. 

Absolutely disgusting.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 13, 2018, 01:10:41 PM
Any ramifications on the salary cap for dumping him?

The first year of his contract is guaranteed, so unless we trade him, we’re stuck paying him and will have his salary count against the cap / luxury tax.

Which he followed up with:

Quote
To be very clear, this is simply a guess for how this is handled in terms of the cap/contract.


Keith Smith says otherwise

My guess is that Jabari Bird will be waived by the Boston Celtics now that court proceedings have begun. Boston could petition for Adam Silver to void Bird's contract under the new domestic violence policy in the NBA. This one could go on for a bit contract-wise.

Of course, meaning he thinks they would proceed that way, but it's not questioning the ability to remove the contract off the books per the DV policy.

Except that ability isn't contained in the DV policy:

https://atlhawksfanatic.github.io/NBA-CBA/joint-nbanbpa-policy-on-domestic-violence-sexual-assault-and-child-abuse.html
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JHTruth on September 13, 2018, 01:15:34 PM
Details sound like a Torture**** flick.

Scumbag. Hopefully he ends up in prison..
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on September 13, 2018, 01:18:16 PM
Details leaking out:

Quote
Details in the Jabari Bird case: He is accused of assaulting his girlfriend for four hours in his apartment. He’s accused of strangling her multiple times, including once until she lost consciousness.

https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/1040273862125072384 (https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/1040273862125072384)

This is horrible if true. That's not even a Ray Rice situation, that's a sustained assault that the victim is probably fortunate to have survived. Jabari will be lucky to see the outside of a prison for the next several years, and should never set foot on an NBA court again.

Pretty much confirms what I heard thru a friend over the weekend.

I told people this was bad.  Real bad.

He tortured that woman.  She loses consciousness, wakes up, then he tortures her again. 

Absolutely disgusting.

I just read the incident report and here are some notes:

He choked her approximately a dozen times

Bird suffers from anxiety and suffered seizures during the incident. He fell asleep, which allowed her to leave.

A Boston Celtics employee (unknown who) forwarded a text from Bird in which Bird stated he would kill himself if she didn't return.




Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: gift on September 13, 2018, 01:23:48 PM
Details leaking out:

Quote
Details in the Jabari Bird case: He is accused of assaulting his girlfriend for four hours in his apartment. He’s accused of strangling her multiple times, including once until she lost consciousness.

https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/1040273862125072384 (https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/1040273862125072384)

This is horrible if true. That's not even a Ray Rice situation, that's a sustained assault that the victim is probably fortunate to have survived. Jabari will be lucky to see the outside of a prison for the next several years, and should never set foot on an NBA court again.

Pretty much confirms what I heard thru a friend over the weekend.

I told people this was bad.  Real bad.

He tortured that woman.  She loses consciousness, wakes up, then he tortures her again. 

Absolutely disgusting.

I just read the incident report and here are some notes:

He choked her approximately a dozen times

Bird suffers from anxiety and suffered seizures during the incident. He fell asleep, which allowed her to leave.

A Boston Celtics employee (unknown who) forwarded a text from Bird in which Bird stated he would kill himself if she didn't return.

Hopefully the victim can recover as much as possible from the traumatic abuse.

Bird clearly needs some help too. Hope he gets it.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 13, 2018, 01:24:37 PM
Quote
Bird clearly needs some help too. Hope he gets it.

... in prison.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 13, 2018, 02:24:11 PM
Bird suffering seizures sounds like something more is at work here. Could be prescription or recreational drugs. Could be a medical condition. Who knows. Seems there’s still more to the story that needs to come out
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: 18isGREATERthan72 on September 13, 2018, 02:31:03 PM
Bird suffering seizures sounds like something more is at work here. Could be prescription or recreational drugs. Could be a medical condition. Who knows. Seems there’s still more to the story that needs to come out

Sort of irrelevant information though at this point.  He might've had a bad reaction to medications, or something along those lines but that doesn't really change any end results.  Someone was tortured for an extended period of time, which he is apparently responsible for.  The Celtics are voiding his contract the first opportunity they can, and if it still counts against the cap they will be cutting him regardless.

The bad reaction to medication angle will only be a difference of if he spends 5-10 years in Prison, or in a psychiatric facility.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: nickagneta on September 13, 2018, 02:33:13 PM
Quote
Bird clearly needs some help too. Hope he gets it.

... in prison.
Absolutely. Stuff being leaked is disgusting and Bird needs to be in jail, regardless of whether he might now be suicidal after the fact.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Kuberski33 on September 13, 2018, 02:43:59 PM
Well you knew based on the way it was being handled, that it had to be bad. Don't think Jabari will be playing professional basketball anytime soon. I'm sure the Celtics want to distance themselves from him and this incident as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: blink on September 13, 2018, 04:08:32 PM
What a horrible story.  What the hell happened with Jabari?  You go from having a bright future making some money to set you up for the future, playing a game you love, to in jail after torturing your gf.  Did he have a history of mental illness?  Were a boat load of really bad drugs involved?

What a terrible thing to live through for the GF.  She is going to need a lot of help. 

So for the charges that will be brought, would this be an attempted murder?  or aggrivated assault / kidnapping?  this is so incredibly sad and terrible.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bdm860 on September 13, 2018, 04:13:24 PM
Looks like he has released a statement.

https://twitter.com/MarcJSpearsESPN/status/1040324625740193792/photo/1

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dm_5u0WU0AAjpCp.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: PAOBoston on September 13, 2018, 04:14:29 PM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: fairweatherfan on September 13, 2018, 04:23:33 PM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.


This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bellerephon on September 13, 2018, 04:44:37 PM
It is also theoretically possible that Bird has suffered some sort of medical problem that could have triggered the seizure, a tumor for example. Such conditions can affect judgement and behavior. The description of the seizure rings true, people who have suffered a seizure do often fall into a deep sleep afterwards. This is just speculation, of course, but not outside the realm of possibility.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: nickagneta on September 13, 2018, 04:53:58 PM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.


This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.
Was going to say the same thing but did not want to drive the speculation train. Lots of pro athletes love their pot and could possibly convince themselves that they could handle synthetic marijuana. Look at Chandler Jones and what he did. Completely psychotic after smoking it.

But again, this is purely speculation, but the symptoms do sound like those caused by that drug.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: GreenWarrior on September 13, 2018, 05:13:26 PM
I rushed to judgement earlier in this thread. it sounds like there's more going on here now, sure synthetic marijuana sounds like it could be in play here but if he has anxiety issues it opens the door to a whole other story.

also concerning is if he didn't pass out this girl is probably dead.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 13, 2018, 05:15:46 PM
also concerning is if he didn't pass out this girl is probably dead.

That thought crossed my mind also.  Thank god for her.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JSD on September 13, 2018, 05:16:21 PM
From what I have gathered from friends in town, Bird was not on any substance like bath salts or synthetic marijuana.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 13, 2018, 05:24:52 PM
... but if he has anxiety issues it opens the door to a whole other story.

How so?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JSD on September 13, 2018, 05:28:15 PM
I wonder if the prosecutors are going to lose the girlfriend, which happens quite a bit in these cases.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 13, 2018, 05:31:07 PM
... but if he has anxiety issues it opens the door to a whole other story.

How so?
Physo disease are excluded from crime
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hodgy03038 on September 13, 2018, 05:55:29 PM
Time to move on. Release him and pay for all the mental health that he needs.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 13, 2018, 05:58:16 PM
Time to move on. Release him and pay for all the mental health that he needs.
did we treat  delonte west the same after his troubles ?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hpantazo on September 13, 2018, 05:58:18 PM
Time to move on. Release him and pay for all the mental health that he needs.

I agree. The statement that the Celtics released says these situations are handled by the league office and is out of their hands at the moment.

Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: GreenWarrior on September 13, 2018, 05:58:28 PM
... but if he has anxiety issues it opens the door to a whole other story.

How so?

lots of layers at work here.

if he was taking anxiety meds there's no guarantee they were the right ones. my understanding is sometimes it takes time to get the meds right, every person is different. you also have to be on these meds for a while before they take effect.

then there's taking prescribed meds and mixing recreational drugs to consider.

also another thing to consider is if he was misdiagnosed as having anxiety and having something else going on instead but taking anti-anxiety meds and or possibly mixing them with recreational drugs.

 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: saltlover on September 13, 2018, 05:59:04 PM
... but if he has anxiety issues it opens the door to a whole other story.

How so?

Seizures are not part of a normal anxiety attack, especially ones severe enough to incapacitate him.  They do happen as part of anxiety attacks occasionally, but again, we’re talking incredibly severe ones.  They also can be caused by anti-anxiety medications.  These same medications can have the side effect of intensifying an anxiety episode.  As it appears he’s been previously diagnosed with anxiety, it’s not impossible he was on such a medication.

The seizures indicate this was more than just someone losing it.  He was having some sort of neurological event.  It’s possible (unprescribed) drugs were involved, but it’s very possible something else was at play.

Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hpantazo on September 13, 2018, 05:59:10 PM
Time to move on. Release him and pay for all the mental health that he needs.
did we treat  delonte west the same after his troubles ?

We should have, or the NBA should have. Delonte needed help and never got it. Its a serious problem not only in the NBA but in workplaces everywhere.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 13, 2018, 06:04:51 PM
... but if he has anxiety issues it opens the door to a whole other story.

How so?

Seizures are not part of a normal anxiety attack, especially ones severe enough to incapacitate him.  They do happen as part of anxiety attacks occasionally, but again, we’re talking incredibly severe ones.  They also can be caused by anti-anxiety medications.  These same medications can have the side effect of intensifying an anxiety episode.  As it appears he’s been previously diagnosed with anxiety, it’s not impossible he was on such a medication.

The seizures indicate this was more than just someone losing it.  He was having some sort of neurological event.  It’s possible (unprescribed) drugs were involved, but it’s very possible something else was at play.

Anxiety drugs can cause rage. They don’t cause people to torture and attempt to murder others.  Neither do anxiety attacks.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: saltlover on September 13, 2018, 06:18:34 PM
... but if he has anxiety issues it opens the door to a whole other story.

How so?

Seizures are not part of a normal anxiety attack, especially ones severe enough to incapacitate him.  They do happen as part of anxiety attacks occasionally, but again, we’re talking incredibly severe ones.  They also can be caused by anti-anxiety medications.  These same medications can have the side effect of intensifying an anxiety episode.  As it appears he’s been previously diagnosed with anxiety, it’s not impossible he was on such a medication.

The seizures indicate this was more than just someone losing it.  He was having some sort of neurological event.  It’s possible (unprescribed) drugs were involved, but it’s very possible something else was at play.

Anxiety drugs can cause rage. They don’t cause people to torture and attempt to murder others.  Neither do anxiety attacks.

Yes, they very much do, sadly.  Rarely, but again, the attack stopped because he was having seizures severe enough to lose consciousness, and presumably left him in a state so dangerous to his own safety that his battered girlfriend moved him to his bed before fleeing.  So this was not a normal event, whatever the cause.

I’m on one such medication.  It’s used for migraine prevention.  But every month when I visit my neurologist she spends as much time quizzing me on whether I’ve had any bouts of anxiety as she does about my migraines, because while the probability of an severe episode is low, it’s very serious, and we monitor it very closely.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 13, 2018, 06:31:28 PM
... but if he has anxiety issues it opens the door to a whole other story.

How so?

Seizures are not part of a normal anxiety attack, especially ones severe enough to incapacitate him.  They do happen as part of anxiety attacks occasionally, but again, we’re talking incredibly severe ones.  They also can be caused by anti-anxiety medications.  These same medications can have the side effect of intensifying an anxiety episode.  As it appears he’s been previously diagnosed with anxiety, it’s not impossible he was on such a medication.

The seizures indicate this was more than just someone losing it.  He was having some sort of neurological event.  It’s possible (unprescribed) drugs were involved, but it’s very possible something else was at play.

Anxiety drugs can cause rage. They don’t cause people to torture and attempt to murder others.  Neither do anxiety attacks.

Yes, they very much do, sadly.  Rarely, but again, the attack stopped because he was having seizures severe enough to lose consciousness, and presumably left him in a state so dangerous to his own safety that his battered girlfriend moved him to his bed before fleeing.  So this was not a normal event, whatever the cause.

I’m on one such medication.  It’s used for migraine prevention.  But every month when I visit my neurologist she spends as much time quizzing me on whether I’ve had any bouts of anxiety as she does about my migraines, because while the probability of an severe episode is low, it’s very serious, and we monitor it very closely.

I’m diagnosed with anxiety, have had panic attacks, and am on both long term and as-needed meds.

My doctor has never warned me that I may suddenly become homicidal over a 4+ hour time period.  Despite a large number of clients with anxiety, I’ve never seen any attorney plead his client not guilty due to anxiety.  My wife is a psychiatric clinician, and she doesn’t see the cause-and-effect either. I’d love to read the literature on that.  Having less control over one’s anger and impulses isn’t the same as causing homicidal acts.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: nickagneta on September 13, 2018, 06:42:21 PM
... but if he has anxiety issues it opens the door to a whole other story.

How so?

Seizures are not part of a normal anxiety attack, especially ones severe enough to incapacitate him.  They do happen as part of anxiety attacks occasionally, but again, we’re talking incredibly severe ones.  They also can be caused by anti-anxiety medications.  These same medications can have the side effect of intensifying an anxiety episode.  As it appears he’s been previously diagnosed with anxiety, it’s not impossible he was on such a medication.

The seizures indicate this was more than just someone losing it.  He was having some sort of neurological event.  It’s possible (unprescribed) drugs were involved, but it’s very possible something else was at play.

Anxiety drugs can cause rage. They don’t cause people to torture and attempt to murder others.  Neither do anxiety attacks.

Yes, they very much do, sadly.  Rarely, but again, the attack stopped because he was having seizures severe enough to lose consciousness, and presumably left him in a state so dangerous to his own safety that his battered girlfriend moved him to his bed before fleeing.  So this was not a normal event, whatever the cause.

I’m on one such medication.  It’s used for migraine prevention.  But every month when I visit my neurologist she spends as much time quizzing me on whether I’ve had any bouts of anxiety as she does about my migraines, because while the probability of an severe episode is low, it’s very serious, and we monitor it very closely.

I’m diagnosed with anxiety, have had panic attacks, and am on both long term and as-needed meds.

My doctor has never warned me that I may suddenly become homicidal over a 4+ hour time period.  Despite a large number of clients with anxiety, I’ve never seen any attorney plead his client not guilty due to anxiety.  My wife is a psychiatric clinician, and she doesn’t see the cause-and-effect either. I’d love to read the literature on that.  Having less control over one’s anger and impulses isn’t the same as causing homicidal acts.
I have anxiety, as well as other mental illness disorders, and am and have been on many different psychotropic drugs for over two decades. I am currently taking 5 different psychotropic drugs.

Never have I been warned that any of those drugs could cause homocidal events. Perhaps I need to go online and look up side effects of those medications, but I have never heard of such things. Usually it is the illness already in place that can cause such events not the medication, that I know of.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: GreenWarrior on September 13, 2018, 07:00:54 PM
this is why I believe there's more to the story than just anxiety and anti-anxiety meds.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: saltlover on September 13, 2018, 07:01:24 PM
... but if he has anxiety issues it opens the door to a whole other story.

How so?

Seizures are not part of a normal anxiety attack, especially ones severe enough to incapacitate him.  They do happen as part of anxiety attacks occasionally, but again, we’re talking incredibly severe ones.  They also can be caused by anti-anxiety medications.  These same medications can have the side effect of intensifying an anxiety episode.  As it appears he’s been previously diagnosed with anxiety, it’s not impossible he was on such a medication.

The seizures indicate this was more than just someone losing it.  He was having some sort of neurological event.  It’s possible (unprescribed) drugs were involved, but it’s very possible something else was at play.

Anxiety drugs can cause rage. They don’t cause people to torture and attempt to murder others.  Neither do anxiety attacks.

Yes, they very much do, sadly.  Rarely, but again, the attack stopped because he was having seizures severe enough to lose consciousness, and presumably left him in a state so dangerous to his own safety that his battered girlfriend moved him to his bed before fleeing.  So this was not a normal event, whatever the cause.

I’m on one such medication.  It’s used for migraine prevention.  But every month when I visit my neurologist she spends as much time quizzing me on whether I’ve had any bouts of anxiety as she does about my migraines, because while the probability of an severe episode is low, it’s very serious, and we monitor it very closely.

I’m diagnosed with anxiety, have had panic attacks, and am on both long term and as-needed meds.

My doctor has never warned me that I may suddenly become homicidal over a 4+ hour time period.  Despite a large number of clients with anxiety, I’ve never seen any attorney plead his client not guilty due to anxiety.  My wife is a psychiatric clinician, and she doesn’t see the cause-and-effect either. I’d love to read the literature on that.  Having less control over one’s anger and impulses isn’t the same as causing homicidal acts.

This is the drug I’m on:

Quote
In a small number of people, Topamax has been known to cause suicidal thoughts or actions, new or worse anxiety, irritability, and depression as well as feelings of agitation, restlessness, aggression, panic attacks, mania, and insomnia.

This medication could also cause sleepiness and impact your ability to think, causing confusion and problems with concentration, attention, memory, and speech.

https://www.everydayhealth.com/drugs/topamax (https://www.everydayhealth.com/drugs/topamax)

I used to take a drug called Remeron.  It has a rare side effect:

Quote
mood or mental changes, including anger, feelings of being outside the body, hallucinations (seeing, hearing, or feeling things that are not there), mood swings, and unusual excitement

https://www.drugs.com/sfx/remeron-side-effects.html (https://www.drugs.com/sfx/remeron-side-effects.html)
The bolded effect is something I actually experienced before it was a known side effect.  Being incorrectly diagnosed as a bipolar schizophrenic because of a rare drug side effect was not the most fun experience.


Those are just two examples that I know of from personal experience.  Drug side effects like this are certainly rare, but if Bird did not have a history of violent behavior, I wouldn’t rule it out if he was in fact taking them, especially given the coincidence of a severe seizure.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tazzmaniac on September 13, 2018, 08:15:01 PM
The Athletic story on this indicates Jabari was released under the supervision of a former high school coach and Jaylen Brown's mother. 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: mainevent on September 13, 2018, 08:24:25 PM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: droopdog7 on September 13, 2018, 08:34:24 PM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.
Yeah, no sense in even speculating.  It is a tough situation.  Thankfully the outcome was not as bad as it might have been.  Beyond that, I’ll watch and wait to see what happens.  If any of this is remotely true then Bird’s nba career is likely over.  But that’s the least of his concerns.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 13, 2018, 08:39:58 PM
I don’t agree with the comments saying or implying  “this has never happened to me. I have anxiety. so Jabari is lying”

We don’t know what jabari suffers from. Seizures isn’t normal no matter what. We shall see what medical issues he has
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 13, 2018, 08:48:47 PM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: RockinRyA on September 13, 2018, 10:25:12 PM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 13, 2018, 10:30:54 PM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on September 13, 2018, 10:41:18 PM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

Ugh, she was treated for injuries at the hospital. If you read the police report it states that the doctor concluded that she sustained internal bleeding behind her ear as one of her injuries. That's pretty hard to fabricate don't you think?

The report also included a screenshot of the threat Bird made to kill himself if his girlfriend didn't come back. That speaks as to his state of mind at the time.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: RockinRyA on September 13, 2018, 10:41:22 PM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 13, 2018, 10:42:13 PM
Quote
When the young woman - who is not being identified - returned to her dorm room she had cuts on her neck, bumps on her head, and extensive bruising, police wrote in a police report obtained by MassLive.

Quote
In addition to cuts and bruises on her face and neck, she suffered internal bleeding behind her ear, police said in the report.

Not. A. Fabrication.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 13, 2018, 10:43:14 PM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: trickybilly on September 13, 2018, 11:33:55 PM
Jackie Mac's piece about mental health more important than ever.

Strange details in this one. Victim reported that Jabari started having seizures during this weird sadistic strangulation session.

No doubt a lot more to come out in time.

Pretty funny that Jaylen's mum is effectively a guarantor now...
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: KungPoweChicken on September 14, 2018, 12:16:07 AM
This is domestic assault, but also sociopathic behavior. Very disturbing.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 14, 2018, 01:47:44 AM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .   
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: RockinRyA on September 14, 2018, 02:21:25 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 03:14:18 AM
If you guys have psycho disease better go watch a good chinese medicine doctor, i have cure some my self, those antipsychotic drugs for most of the time does not treat your disease only repress it, when time goes on your untreated disease can became worse and you have to take even more, and many of those drugs put pressure to your brain or even damage it.

ps.also migraines too, easier than psycho disease, i have rarely encounter a migraine that i can't cure
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: KungPoweChicken on September 14, 2018, 05:14:35 AM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 05:43:28 AM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.
Not a typical psychotic episode yes but definitely possible
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: KungPoweChicken on September 14, 2018, 05:56:16 AM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.
Not a typical psychotic episode yes but definitely possible


It would be helpful to read about domestic violence and the cyclic pattern of intimate partner violence. To speculate this incident was caused by "psychosis" due to "drug overdose" is a complete failure to understand what domestic violence is.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 14, 2018, 06:11:19 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: moiso on September 14, 2018, 06:12:11 AM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.
Not a typical psychotic episode yes but definitely possible
Absolutely.  I work on a psych ward full such cases.  People that murdered people on bike paths, people that killed their parents, a guy that killed a little kid and ate him... it definitely happens.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: moiso on September 14, 2018, 06:16:30 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
He without a doubt caused the injuries and did what he did.  It sounds like he was on something that altered his reality.  He may have known what he was doing but it may have seemed reasonable to him at the time.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: KungPoweChicken on September 14, 2018, 06:20:35 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
He without a doubt caused the injuries and did what he did.  It sounds like he was on something that altered his reality.  He may have known what he was doing but it may have seemed reasonable to him at the time.


So you are choosing to believe Bird was "temporarily insane," yet all his reported actions thus far point to a cogent, violent, abuser.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 14, 2018, 06:27:25 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
He without a doubt caused the injuries and did what he did.  It sounds like he was on something that altered his reality.  He may have known what he was doing but it may have seemed reasonable to him at the time.

I don’t know where the seizures fit in, or if something affected his mood.

I do think that rather than psychosis, he was probably in a rage fueled at least in part by jealousy. This doesn’t make him much different than most abusers.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Birdman on September 14, 2018, 06:31:08 AM
Please terminate his contract!!.forget bout sports, this is real life..i have no use when someone hit a woman or child
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 06:33:49 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
Don't ever underestimate women, some of them will do everything in order to reach their goal , for all we know she could hurt herself and fake it on Jabari, it's unlikely but not impossible
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: KungPoweChicken on September 14, 2018, 06:38:28 AM
The physical assault that happened last Friday is simply tip of the iceberg. Intimate partner violence will take shape and try to hide in many forms. Sadly, assault is usually the predictable culmination of long standing intimate partner violence. I hope the victim gets all the help that she needs. I would also like Bird released soon, and I expect the Celtics organization to do so. 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 14, 2018, 06:40:41 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
Don't ever underestimate women, some of them will do everything in order to reach their goal , for all we know she could hurt herself and fake it on Jabari, it's unlikely but not impossible

Wow. This is an incredibly misogynistic and sexist statement.  As in, I’d strongly suspect anybody using that line is somebody who hates women.

Don’t ever underestimate abusers, almost all of them will do everything to reach their goal. The abuser in this case injured the victim severely, which we know for an absolute certainty.

In some instances, DV is fabricated. That’s not the case here, with severe injuries and suicidal texts by Jabari.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Sophomore on September 14, 2018, 06:43:17 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
He without a doubt caused the injuries and did what he did.  It sounds like he was on something that altered his reality.  He may have known what he was doing but it may have seemed reasonable to him at the time.


So you are choosing to believe Bird was "temporarily insane," yet all his reported actions thus far point to a cogent, violent, abuser.

Violent, definitely. Not sure what you mean by “cogent”. If you mean “not delusional”, then probably. But it doesn’t sound like he was calm or collected. She described him as having an epileptic-like seizure and said he had sent texts threatening to kill himself. He was kind of a mess.

Being a mess doesn’t excuse violence. To me this feels like a double tragedy. Someone should have got him help before this happened; maybe it didn’t have to go like this, for the sake of the victim and him. 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 14, 2018, 06:45:04 AM
So, apparently severe rage can cause seizures:

https://www.cedars-sinai.edu/Patients/Health-Conditions/Rage-Attacks.aspx
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: KungPoweChicken on September 14, 2018, 06:48:26 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
He without a doubt caused the injuries and did what he did.  It sounds like he was on something that altered his reality.  He may have known what he was doing but it may have seemed reasonable to him at the time.


So you are choosing to believe Bird was "temporarily insane," yet all his reported actions thus far point to a cogent, violent, abuser.

Violent, definitely. Not sure what you mean by “cogent”. If you mean “not delusional”, then probably. But it doesn’t sound like he was calm or collected. She described him as having an epileptic-like seizure and said he had sent texts threatening to kill himself. He was kind of a mess.

Being a mess doesn’t excuse violence. To me this feels like a double tragedy. Someone should have got him help before this happened; maybe it didn’t have to go like this, for the sake of the victim and him.


That is exactly the behavior one would expect from an abuser in a cyclic pattern of violence.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: GreenWarrior on September 14, 2018, 07:10:04 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

so a psychotic episode has a time limit?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 07:14:47 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
Don't ever underestimate women, some of them will do everything in order to reach their goal , for all we know she could hurt herself and fake it on Jabari, it's unlikely but not impossible

Wow. This is an incredibly misogynistic and sexist statement.  As in, I’d strongly suspect anybody using that line is somebody who hates women.

Don’t ever underestimate abusers, almost all of them will do everything to reach their goal. The abuser in this case injured the victim severely, which we know for an absolute certainty.

In some instances, DV is fabricated. That’s not the case here, with severe injuries and suicidal texts by Jabari.
I used women because we are talking about a she, change it to people if you cares
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 14, 2018, 07:25:27 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

so a psychotic episode has a time limit?

There is literally zero evidence of a “psychotic episode”.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Androslav on September 14, 2018, 07:27:53 AM
Jabari "Jail" Bird
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 07:51:13 AM
So, apparently severe rage can cause seizures:

https://www.cedars-sinai.edu/Patients/Health-Conditions/Rage-Attacks.aspx
Technically every emotion at a extremely level can cause seizures
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: saltlover on September 14, 2018, 07:57:33 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

so a psychotic episode has a time limit?

There is literally zero evidence of a “psychotic episode”.

Bird had a prolonged violent outburst, threats of suicide, seizures, and a 5-day stint in a mental health ward of a hospital.  There is no way anyone on this board can say he for sure had a psychotic episode, as none of us (I assume) have treated him, but he certainly showed some symptoms of one, and was most certainly evaluated for one during his time in care.  To say there literally is zero evidence is, well, just wrong.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: KungPoweChicken on September 14, 2018, 08:11:16 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

so a psychotic episode has a time limit?

There is literally zero evidence of a “psychotic episode”.

Bird had a prolonged violent outburst, threats of suicide, seizures, and a 5-day stint in a mental health ward of a hospital.  There is no way anyone on this board can say he for sure had a psychotic episode, as none of us (I assume) have treated him, but he certainly showed some symptoms of one, and was most certainly evaluated for one during his time in care.  To say there literally is zero evidence is, well, just wrong.


What evidence do you have to suggest he was evaluated for a "psychotic episode"? Also, what symptoms did he have of a "psychotic episode"?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: gouki88 on September 14, 2018, 08:19:36 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

so a psychotic episode has a time limit?

There is literally zero evidence of a “psychotic episode”.

Bird had a prolonged violent outburst, threats of suicide, seizures, and a 5-day stint in a mental health ward of a hospital.  There is no way anyone on this board can say he for sure had a psychotic episode, as none of us (I assume) have treated him, but he certainly showed some symptoms of one, and was most certainly evaluated for one during his time in care.  To say there literally is zero evidence is, well, just wrong.


What evidence do you have to suggest he was evaluated for a "psychotic episode"? Also, what symptoms did he have of a "psychotic episode"?
Suicidal thoughts and actions are common symptoms of psychosis, as is disordered behaviour, which this quite obviously falls under. Especially when you consider his absolute lack of violent history.
Your attempts to paint him out as some sociopathic abuser are really weird
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: KungPoweChicken on September 14, 2018, 08:23:35 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

so a psychotic episode has a time limit?

There is literally zero evidence of a “psychotic episode”.

Bird had a prolonged violent outburst, threats of suicide, seizures, and a 5-day stint in a mental health ward of a hospital.  There is no way anyone on this board can say he for sure had a psychotic episode, as none of us (I assume) have treated him, but he certainly showed some symptoms of one, and was most certainly evaluated for one during his time in care.  To say there literally is zero evidence is, well, just wrong.


What evidence do you have to suggest he was evaluated for a "psychotic episode"? Also, what symptoms did he have of a "psychotic episode"?
Suicidal thoughts and actions are common symptoms of psychosis, as is disordered behaviour, which this quite obviously falls under. Especially when you consider his absolute lack of violent history.
Your attempts to paint him out as some sociopathic abuser are really weird

Threats of self-harm are common among abusers. It is considered emotional abuse. He did not have any disordered behavior. He assaulted a person. That's the only evidence we have. Your attempts at diagnosing Brief psychotic Disorder comes extremely short of the DSM-5 criteria. Furthermore, the DSM-5 does not use "suicidal thoughts" as a diagnostic criteria.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Moranis on September 14, 2018, 08:24:19 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: KungPoweChicken on September 14, 2018, 08:27:18 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

It does not matter who instigated.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 14, 2018, 08:36:36 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

To do what?  Give you piece of mind?

She was tortured to the point she lost consciousness and got the crap beaten out of her.  He's the one being charged.   
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 14, 2018, 08:38:01 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 08:49:46 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

To do what?  Give you piece of mind?

She was tortured to the point she lost consciousness and got the crap beaten out of her.  He's the one being charged.
No one knows if she really lost conscious or she just lying, and maybe she had a gun or knife, bird is just self-defending himslef
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: KungPoweChicken on September 14, 2018, 08:50:49 AM
I don't understand why posters are speculating on baseless conspiracies. This incident is an example of Occam's razor. With all the awareness regarding domestic violence recently, the expectation is the public would be better informed. A lot more education is needed. Very sad.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: KungPoweChicken on September 14, 2018, 08:56:03 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

so a psychotic episode has a time limit?

There is literally zero evidence of a “psychotic episode”.

Bird had a prolonged violent outburst, threats of suicide, seizures, and a 5-day stint in a mental health ward of a hospital.  There is no way anyone on this board can say he for sure had a psychotic episode, as none of us (I assume) have treated him, but he certainly showed some symptoms of one, and was most certainly evaluated for one during his time in care.  To say there literally is zero evidence is, well, just wrong.


What evidence do you have to suggest he was evaluated for a "psychotic episode"? Also, what symptoms did he have of a "psychotic episode"?
Suicidal thoughts and actions are common symptoms of psychosis, as is disordered behaviour, which this quite obviously falls under. Especially when you consider his absolute lack of violent history.
Your attempts to paint him out as some sociopathic abuser are really weird


He assaulted, kidnapped, and strangled the victim repeatedly. I did not have to paint him as one.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: gouki88 on September 14, 2018, 08:56:59 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

so a psychotic episode has a time limit?

There is literally zero evidence of a “psychotic episode”.

Bird had a prolonged violent outburst, threats of suicide, seizures, and a 5-day stint in a mental health ward of a hospital.  There is no way anyone on this board can say he for sure had a psychotic episode, as none of us (I assume) have treated him, but he certainly showed some symptoms of one, and was most certainly evaluated for one during his time in care.  To say there literally is zero evidence is, well, just wrong.


What evidence do you have to suggest he was evaluated for a "psychotic episode"? Also, what symptoms did he have of a "psychotic episode"?
Suicidal thoughts and actions are common symptoms of psychosis, as is disordered behaviour, which this quite obviously falls under. Especially when you consider his absolute lack of violent history.
Your attempts to paint him out as some sociopathic abuser are really weird

Threats of self-harm are common among abusers. It is considered emotional abuse. He did not have any disordered behavior. He assaulted a person. That's the only evidence we have. Your attempts at diagnosing Brief psychotic Disorder comes extremely short of the DSM-5 criteria. Furthermore, the DSM-5 does not use "suicidal thoughts" as a diagnostic criteria.
How can you call someone a sociopath then say he did not have any disordered behaviour? That makes no sense.

And it's not my attempts. I literally made no effort to diagnose him, as I, just like you, don't know nearly all the facts. That hasn't stopped you previously from making wild claims.

Also, the DSM-5 is pretty garbage. Blinded by ambition, as it wanted to 'effect a paradigm shift in psychiatric diagnosis', it is littered with writing mistakes and ambiguous wordings, making its diagnoses pretty garbage. It also prioritises profits above a proper intellectual exchange with the field, and it can lead to many diagnoses which should not really be there - one only needs to look at the ADD threshold being lowered, or the way in which grief has become regularly diagnosed as Major Depressive Disorder to see this. So excuse me if I don't value it.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 14, 2018, 09:01:45 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

To do what?  Give you piece of mind?

She was tortured to the point she lost consciousness and got the crap beaten out of her.  He's the one being charged.
No one knows if she really lost conscious or she just lying, and maybe she had a gun or knife, bird is just self-defending himslef

So, let me guess this straight, maybe she was the aggressor.  Had a gun or knife.  Then somehow the tables turned.  But rather than call the cops, Bird decided to torture her for hours instead.  Why?  Just for the heck of it?

Why not call the police then?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Moranis on September 14, 2018, 09:02:24 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.
I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 14, 2018, 09:03:12 AM
I don't understand why posters are speculating on baseless conspiracies. This incident is an example of Occam's razor. With all the awareness regarding domestic violence recently, the expectation is the public would be better informed. A lot more education is needed. Very sad.

That’s why you see so many abusers end up in diversion programs or with slaps on the wrist. From my experience I’d say half the victims don’t cooperate, and for the other half you have to deal with a pool of jurors from which a certain percentage will be inclined to blame the victim / make excuses for the accused.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 09:05:14 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

so a psychotic episode has a time limit?

There is literally zero evidence of a “psychotic episode”.

Bird had a prolonged violent outburst, threats of suicide, seizures, and a 5-day stint in a mental health ward of a hospital.  There is no way anyone on this board can say he for sure had a psychotic episode, as none of us (I assume) have treated him, but he certainly showed some symptoms of one, and was most certainly evaluated for one during his time in care.  To say there literally is zero evidence is, well, just wrong.


What evidence do you have to suggest he was evaluated for a "psychotic episode"? Also, what symptoms did he have of a "psychotic episode"?
Suicidal thoughts and actions are common symptoms of psychosis, as is disordered behaviour, which this quite obviously falls under. Especially when you consider his absolute lack of violent history.
Your attempts to paint him out as some sociopathic abuser are really weird

Threats of self-harm are common among abusers. It is considered emotional abuse. He did not have any disordered behavior. He assaulted a person. That's the only evidence we have. Your attempts at diagnosing Brief psychotic Disorder comes extremely short of the DSM-5 criteria. Furthermore, the DSM-5 does not use "suicidal thoughts" as a diagnostic criteria.
How can you call someone a sociopath then say he did not have any disordered behaviour? That makes no sense.

And it's not my attempts. I literally made no effort to diagnose him, as I, just like you, don't know nearly all the facts. That hasn't stopped you previously from making wild claims.

Also, the DSM-5 is pretty garbage. Blinded by ambition, as it wanted to 'effect a paradigm shift in psychiatric diagnosis', it is littered with writing mistakes and ambiguous wordings, making its diagnoses pretty garbage. It also prioritises profits above a proper intellectual exchange with the field, and it can lead to many diagnoses which should not really be there - one only needs to look at the ADD threshold being lowered, or the way in which grief has become regularly diagnosed as Major Depressive Disorder to see this. So excuse me if I don't value it.
All diagnosis criteria, especially for Psycho disease, are for statistical and public convenient to execute, doesn't fit the criteria does not exclude the possibility of a disease
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Moranis on September 14, 2018, 09:05:22 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

To do what?  Give you piece of mind?

She was tortured to the point she lost consciousness and got the crap beaten out of her.  He's the one being charged.
No one knows if she really lost conscious or she just lying, and maybe she had a gun or knife, bird is just self-defending himslef

So, let me guess this straight, maybe she was the aggressor.  Had a gun or knife.  Then somehow the tables turned.  But rather than call the cops, Bird decided to torture her for hours instead.  Why?  Just for the heck of it?

Why not call the police then?
How do you know he tortured her for hours?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 14, 2018, 09:07:27 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.
I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense. 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 09:08:05 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

To do what?  Give you piece of mind?

She was tortured to the point she lost consciousness and got the crap beaten out of her.  He's the one being charged.
No one knows if she really lost conscious or she just lying, and maybe she had a gun or knife, bird is just self-defending himslef

So, let me guess this straight, maybe she was the aggressor.  Had a gun or knife.  Then somehow the tables turned.  But rather than call the cops, Bird decided to torture her for hours instead.  Why?  Just for the heck of it?

Why not call the police then?
Maybe he isn't at the right psycho condition either? maybe he didn't torture her for hours? we don't know what really happened
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 09:09:23 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.
I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.
Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 14, 2018, 09:12:34 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

To do what?  Give you piece of mind?

She was tortured to the point she lost consciousness and got the crap beaten out of her.  He's the one being charged.
No one knows if she really lost conscious or she just lying, and maybe she had a gun or knife, bird is just self-defending himslef

So, let me guess this straight, maybe she was the aggressor.  Had a gun or knife.  Then somehow the tables turned.  But rather than call the cops, Bird decided to torture her for hours instead.  Why?  Just for the heck of it?

Why not call the police then?
How do you know he tortured her for hours?

Seriously?  The "according to police reports" items haven't tipped you off of what allegedly happened?   Or are we going to turn this into another silly semantic thing again?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 14, 2018, 09:15:20 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.
I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.
Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 09:26:51 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.
I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.
Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?
People fake injuries in form of self hurting for money all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac7LzckbW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoes7rsZBA
or from mental illness (Munchausen Syndrome)





Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 14, 2018, 09:29:29 AM
It's fantastic that this has now turned into victim shaming & conspiracy theories all because of the laundry the kid wears.   
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 14, 2018, 09:36:18 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.
I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.
Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?
People fake injuries in form of self hurting for money all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac7LzckbW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoes7rsZBA
or from mental illness (Munchausen Syndrome)

I see.

So the victim faked her own injuries, stole Jabari’s phone and sent suicidal texts, got him arrested and placed under “observation” for almost six days...

And for all of that, Jabari apologizes?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 09:40:25 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.
I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.
Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?
People fake injuries in form of self hurting for money all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac7LzckbW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoes7rsZBA
or from mental illness (Munchausen Syndrome)

I see.

So the victim faked her own injuries, stole Jabari’s phone and sent suicidal texts, got him arrested and placed under “observation” for almost six days...

And for all of that, Jabari apologizes?
He didn't apologize to her from what i heard?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 14, 2018, 09:43:50 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.
I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.
Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?
People fake injuries in form of self hurting for money all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac7LzckbW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoes7rsZBA
or from mental illness (Munchausen Syndrome)

I see.

So the victim faked her own injuries, stole Jabari’s phone and sent suicidal texts, got him arrested and placed under “observation” for almost six days...

And for all of that, Jabari apologizes?
He didn't apologize to her from what i heard?

He apologized to his loved ones and the team. It seems like an odd public apology if he’s the victim.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 09:53:24 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.
I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.
Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?
People fake injuries in form of self hurting for money all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac7LzckbW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoes7rsZBA
or from mental illness (Munchausen Syndrome)

I see.

So the victim faked her own injuries, stole Jabari’s phone and sent suicidal texts, got him arrested and placed under “observation” for almost six days...

And for all of that, Jabari apologizes?
He didn't apologize to her from what i heard?

He apologized to his loved ones and the team. It seems like an odd public apology if he’s the victim.
"
I'm talking some time away from the team as I deal with my legal and medical issues. I apologise to my family, the Celtics organization, my teammates, the fans and the NBA for the unnecessary distraction that I have caused the information that had been released does not tell the full story. I do not condone violence against women. I am hopeful that in due time and process, I will be able to regain everyone's trust.
"
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 14, 2018, 09:58:00 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.
I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.
Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?
People fake injuries in form of self hurting for money all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac7LzckbW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoes7rsZBA
or from mental illness (Munchausen Syndrome)

I see.

So the victim faked her own injuries, stole Jabari’s phone and sent suicidal texts, got him arrested and placed under “observation” for almost six days...

And for all of that, Jabari apologizes?
He didn't apologize to her from what i heard?

He apologized to his loved ones and the team. It seems like an odd public apology if he’s the victim.
"
I'm talking some time away from the team as I deal with my legal and medical issues. I apologise to my family, the Celtics organization, my teammates, the fans and the NBA for the unnecessary distraction that I have caused the information that had been released does not tell the full story. I do not condone violence against women. I am hopeful that in due time and process, I will be able to regain everyone's trust.
"

That he caused.

He doesn’t even claim the allegations are false. Odd, after she made the entire thing up.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Moranis on September 14, 2018, 10:28:45 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.
I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.
Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?
People fake injuries in form of self hurting for money all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac7LzckbW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoes7rsZBA
or from mental illness (Munchausen Syndrome)

I see.

So the victim faked her own injuries, stole Jabari’s phone and sent suicidal texts, got him arrested and placed under “observation” for almost six days...

And for all of that, Jabari apologizes?
He didn't apologize to her from what i heard?

He apologized to his loved ones and the team. It seems like an odd public apology if he’s the victim.
"
I'm talking some time away from the team as I deal with my legal and medical issues. I apologise to my family, the Celtics organization, my teammates, the fans and the NBA for the unnecessary distraction that I have caused the information that had been released does not tell the full story. I do not condone violence against women. I am hopeful that in due time and process, I will be able to regain everyone's trust.
"

That he caused.

He doesn’t even claim the allegations are false. Odd, after she made the entire thing up.
You are definitely reading that statement how you want it to be read and not how it actually reads.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: KG Living Legend on September 14, 2018, 11:45:15 AM
It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.
I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.
I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.
Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?




 They actually was how it happened! I thought I was the only one with that story! I'm. Going to write the full article and post on Bleacher Report now that there is multiple Witnesses!
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bogg on September 14, 2018, 12:20:59 PM
What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

Conspiracy theorists in this thread aside, because it certainly sounds like something very bad happened, I think there's a pretty big difference between wanting to understand why something happened and thinking it's acceptable. Writing it off as clearly the person is inherently violent and they did this because they figured they could and it would be fun to do isn't helpful.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: fairweatherfan on September 14, 2018, 01:04:39 PM
I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bogg on September 14, 2018, 01:33:39 PM
I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

As if to reiterate my point. Once again - wanting to know what caused someone to behave in a certain way is not in itself an endorsement (or acceptance) of that behavior.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: fairweatherfan on September 14, 2018, 01:46:38 PM
I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

As if to reiterate my point. Once again - wanting to know what caused someone to behave in a certain way is not in itself an endorsement (or acceptance) of that behavior.

Where did you read that I disagreed with that? What I said wasn't a response to your post and has nothing to do with what you're arguing in it.

I agree for what it's worth, but that's also not really an accurate characterization of how some posters have been approaching this.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bogg on September 14, 2018, 01:50:14 PM
I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

As if to reiterate my point. Once again - wanting to know what caused someone to behave in a certain way is not in itself an endorsement (or acceptance) of that behavior.

Where did you read that I disagreed with that? What I said wasn't a response to your post and has nothing to do with what you're arguing in it.

I agree for what it's worth, but that's also not really an accurate characterization of how some posters have been approaching this.

Ah, fair enough. Because your post was right after mine with no other posts quoted I assumed it was a response. Agreed that there have been a wide range of responses to this, some less reasonable than others. I'm not in the "women are evil and Jabari's maybe the real victim" camp.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: KG Living Legend on September 14, 2018, 02:02:04 PM

 This guy is going down hard. Is there anyone disputing he's not at this point?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: fairweatherfan on September 14, 2018, 02:06:21 PM
I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

As if to reiterate my point. Once again - wanting to know what caused someone to behave in a certain way is not in itself an endorsement (or acceptance) of that behavior.

Where did you read that I disagreed with that? What I said wasn't a response to your post and has nothing to do with what you're arguing in it.

I agree for what it's worth, but that's also not really an accurate characterization of how some posters have been approaching this.

Ah, fair enough. Because your post was right after mine with no other posts quoted I assumed it was a response. Agreed that there have been a wide range of responses to this, some less reasonable than others. I'm not in the "women are evil and Jabari's maybe the real victim" camp.

Nah I was mostly reading the conspiracy type debates above and on the last couple pages (as well as early on), didn't even see yours to be honest. Just didn't want to jump into a specific one and quote a giant nested argument. I'd like to know what caused it too, but that's because I'm just a trivial sliver below 100% certain that the basic allegations are true.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: SparzWizard on September 14, 2018, 02:09:53 PM
The Celtics need to set an example and release Jabari Bird immediately.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 14, 2018, 02:59:42 PM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue. 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: nickagneta on September 14, 2018, 03:07:09 PM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on September 14, 2018, 03:09:42 PM
I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

As if to reiterate my point. Once again - wanting to know what caused someone to behave in a certain way is not in itself an endorsement (or acceptance) of that behavior.

It stated in the police report that Bird's jealously is what started everything.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 14, 2018, 03:23:03 PM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.

I don't see how the two can be separated.  Yes, someone growing up in that environment is likely to commit similar acts; the vast majority of folks with significant issues have trauma history -- it's a huge risk factor for everything.  But that doesn't parse mental health from the contributing factors, right?  The last thing I'd want to do is stigmatize folks (including myself) with mental health issues, but nearly everyone meets criteria for something, let alone that level of violence.  I think we may be splitting hairs because this issue always moves into the realm of accountability. 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 03:25:48 PM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.
But those guys don't have a seizure attack when they do evil things, you need an unhealthy brain to make that happen
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 03:28:16 PM
I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

As if to reiterate my point. Once again - wanting to know what caused someone to behave in a certain way is not in itself an endorsement (or acceptance) of that behavior.

It stated in the police report that Bird's jealously is what started everything.
Said his girlfriend right? i mean otherwise why the cops will know what starts the evens?
when she called the police the event was over.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 14, 2018, 03:35:23 PM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.

I don't see how the two can be separated.  Yes, someone growing up in that environment is likely to commit similar acts; the vast majority of folks with significant issues have trauma history -- it's a huge risk factor for everything.  But that doesn't parse mental health from the contributing factors, right?  The last thing I'd want to do is stigmatize folks (including myself) with mental health issues, but nearly everyone meets criteria for something, let alone that level of violence.  I think we may be splitting hairs because this issue always moves into the realm of accountability.

If everybody meets criteria for something, doesn't that suggest that they're not ill at all, but rather acting consistently with how the human brain functions?

I think we each have different tolerances for things.  Is the ability to severely injure, or even kill, another human a sign of being mentally ill?  I don't think it is, necessarily.  Look at our soldiers.  Killing others may cause severe mental anguish for many, but does the act itself mean they were suffering from mental illness at the time they pulled the trigger or dropped the bomb?  I don't think that it does.

But, the real question does indeed come down to accountability and culpability.  My guess is that this is due to rage, rather than psychosis.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 14, 2018, 04:02:54 PM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.

I don't see how the two can be separated.  Yes, someone growing up in that environment is likely to commit similar acts; the vast majority of folks with significant issues have trauma history -- it's a huge risk factor for everything.  But that doesn't parse mental health from the contributing factors, right?  The last thing I'd want to do is stigmatize folks (including myself) with mental health issues, but nearly everyone meets criteria for something, let alone that level of violence.  I think we may be splitting hairs because this issue always moves into the realm of accountability.

If everybody meets criteria for something, doesn't that suggest that they're not ill at all, but rather acting consistently with how the human brain functions?

I think we each have different tolerances for things.  Is the ability to severely injure, or even kill, another human a sign of being mentally ill?  I don't think it is, necessarily.  Look at our soldiers.  Killing others may cause severe mental anguish for many, but does the act itself mean they were suffering from mental illness at the time they pulled the trigger or dropped the bomb?  I don't think that it does.

But, the real question does indeed come down to accountability and culpability.  My guess is that this is due to rage, rather than psychosis.
This is both true and false, when you put enough mental stress on human brain it will become mentaly ill
so those are illness but also normal human brain function         
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Neurotic Guy on September 14, 2018, 06:12:22 PM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.

I don't see how the two can be separated.  Yes, someone growing up in that environment is likely to commit similar acts; the vast majority of folks with significant issues have trauma history -- it's a huge risk factor for everything.  But that doesn't parse mental health from the contributing factors, right?  The last thing I'd want to do is stigmatize folks (including myself) with mental health issues, but nearly everyone meets criteria for something, let alone that level of violence.  I think we may be splitting hairs because this issue always moves into the realm of accountability.

If everybody meets criteria for something, doesn't that suggest that they're not ill at all, but rather acting consistently with how the human brain functions?

I think we each have different tolerances for things.  Is the ability to severely injure, or even kill, another human a sign of being mentally ill?  I don't think it is, necessarily.  Look at our soldiers.  Killing others may cause severe mental anguish for many, but does the act itself mean they were suffering from mental illness at the time they pulled the trigger or dropped the bomb?  I don't think that it does.

But, the real question does indeed come down to accountability and culpability.  My guess is that this is due to rage, rather than psychosis.

It may be true that everyone, at least at some point in their life, meets diagnostic criteria for something. But most won’t  meet criteria for psychosis, character disorder, or other major MH issues (PTSD, Major Depression, bipolar, severe anxiety).  True that toxic stress can exacerbate or create severe symptoms in anyone. I generally agree with you that mental health issues (with a few exceptions) can’t eliminate culpability/ accountability.  However, certainly mental health factors can (in some cases) provide a mitigating factor that could impact sentencing or type of intervention. Society is sometimes better off (depending on the crime and circumstances) to provide treatment in lieu of a pure punishment model.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 14, 2018, 06:53:46 PM
Quote
Society is sometimes better off (depending on the crime and circumstances) to provide treatment in lieu of a pure punishment model.

I think that’s true for many non-violent crimes — especially first offenses — and our justice system is overall very poor at handling both substance abuse and mental illness. 

But, for extremely violent crimes, I think incapacitation is still generally the best policy.

It’s interesting to ponder intellectually: Should one bad choice (or string of choices) define somebody’s life? Is Jabari garbage because he completely lost control of his rage and did something sadistic?

Philosophically, I say no. My experience tells me lock some of these guys up. I’ve represented guys who have tortured their own father; tore their pregnant girlfriend’s eyeball out and left it on the floor; and broke into a home to rape a young boy.  In these instances, each struggled with issues that effected their judgment: substance abuse, schizophrenia, and pedophelia.  In all three cases, incapacitation (prison; institutionalization; prison) was all a prosecutor and judge would agree to (despite my best efforts), and in all three cases incapacitation was probably right.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bogg on September 14, 2018, 09:45:51 PM
I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

As if to reiterate my point. Once again - wanting to know what caused someone to behave in a certain way is not in itself an endorsement (or acceptance) of that behavior.

It stated in the police report that Bird's jealously is what started everything.

I'm pretty sure nobody's wondering what they were fighting about, that's pretty obvious.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 15, 2018, 01:14:55 AM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.

I don't see how the two can be separated.  Yes, someone growing up in that environment is likely to commit similar acts; the vast majority of folks with significant issues have trauma history -- it's a huge risk factor for everything.  But that doesn't parse mental health from the contributing factors, right?  The last thing I'd want to do is stigmatize folks (including myself) with mental health issues, but nearly everyone meets criteria for something, let alone that level of violence.  I think we may be splitting hairs because this issue always moves into the realm of accountability.

If everybody meets criteria for something, doesn't that suggest that they're not ill at all, but rather acting consistently with how the human brain functions?

I think we each have different tolerances for things.  Is the ability to severely injure, or even kill, another human a sign of being mentally ill?  I don't think it is, necessarily.  Look at our soldiers.  Killing others may cause severe mental anguish for many, but does the act itself mean they were suffering from mental illness at the time they pulled the trigger or dropped the bomb?  I don't think that it does.

But, the real question does indeed come down to accountability and culpability.  My guess is that this is due to rage, rather than psychosis.

The comment was intended to illustrate how unlikely it is that Bird doesn't have a mental health issue relative to a population of people that have strengths and weaknesses that will land them somewhere along the short end of the spectrum on some trait/behavior/etc.  But I agree with your larger point that a classification loses its luster and meaningfulness fairly quickly.

Nope, I think a lot of people are capable of taking another life without a contributing mental health issue.  Your example of soldiers in combat is a good one - no instinct is stronger than self-preservation - and I'm sure that are plenty of parents/mothers that would commit murder to protect their children.

The question of accountability and culpability is an interesting one because you and I are coming from completely opposite ends of the spectrum - my job is to treat people that commit such acts as patients, which requires a lot of effort at times, while yours (public defender?) handles the legal aspects when the crime (rather than etiology) is assessed, and the patient stands to pay the piper.  Bird should be held accountable for his actions, though I likely sympathize with the offender to a much different degree.  And it's probably in everyone's best interests to have strong proponents on each side.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 15, 2018, 01:56:37 AM
Quote
(public defender?)

Close enough. We don’t have a public defender system here in Maine. Rather, private attorneys take court appointments for criminal defense, which makes up a fairly large percentage of my practice.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 15, 2018, 02:22:14 AM
Quote
(public defender?)

Close enough. We don’t have a public defender system here in Maine. Rather, private attorneys take court appointments for criminal defense, which makes up a fairly large percentage of my practice.

Is there a mental health court in Maine?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 15, 2018, 02:25:04 AM
Quote
(public defender?)

Close enough. We don’t have a public defender system here in Maine. Rather, private attorneys take court appointments for criminal defense, which makes up a fairly large percentage of my practice.

Is there a mental health court in Maine? Or drug court?

We have various drug courts around the state. There’s a Co-occurring Disorders Court in Augusta, but it’s pretty limited.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: mqtcelticsfan on September 15, 2018, 07:55:01 AM
The Celtics need to set an example and release Jabari Bird immediately.

While I wholeheartedly agree that Jabari Bird should, and likely will not play for the Celtics, I’d wait until the NBA does its thing and see if we can void the contract. While there’s practically no difference from a competitive standpoint, I think it’s absurd for Boston to pay Jabari Bird off to cut ties. I could be wrong about how this process works, though.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Emmette Bryant on September 15, 2018, 08:43:18 AM
dangercart explains cap ramifications

https://www.dangerc.art/blog/the-financial-impact-of-the-jabari-bird-allegations
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: nickagneta on September 15, 2018, 10:44:39 AM
dangercart explains cap ramifications

https://www.dangerc.art/blog/the-financial-impact-of-the-jabari-bird-allegations
I think I saw one mistake in that article. I thought NBA teams had to carry a minimum of 13 players on their roster not 14 as it says in the article. Perhaps that has changed but I never read anything about it changing.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: otherdave on September 15, 2018, 02:18:15 PM
Teams can carry 14 players, most carry 15.  CBA says league must average 14.5.  Not sure what happens if average dips below 14.5
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: nickagneta on September 15, 2018, 02:26:05 PM
Teams can carry 14 players, most carry 15.  CBA says league must average 14.5.  Not sure what happens if average dips below 14.5
Just checked. The minimum is 14 players. I was wrong about the 13 minimum number.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 16, 2018, 11:20:21 AM
https://www.masslive.com/news/boston/index.ssf/2018/09/boston_celtic_jabari_bird.html


Jabari pleads not guilty, bails out
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 16, 2018, 11:24:02 AM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.
But those guys don't have a seizure attack when they do evil things, you need an unhealthy brain to make that happen
they keep skipping that fact for some convenient reason
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 16, 2018, 11:25:42 AM
The Celtics need to set an example and release Jabari Bird immediately.
what if the courts find him not guilty ? That doesn’t seem fair at all
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 16, 2018, 11:27:27 AM
The Celtics need to set an example and release Jabari Bird immediately.
what if the courts find him not guilty ? That doesn’t seem fair at all

My guess is that the team knows more of the facts than the media/general public here.

If the team is releasing him (and I'm guessing they will at some point), its because they feel pretty certain this kid is guilty one way or another. 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 16, 2018, 11:30:19 AM
The Celtics need to set an example and release Jabari Bird immediately.
what if the courts find him not guilty ? That doesn’t seem fair at all

Why not?  There's a huge chasm between "not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" (or "not responsible due to insanity") and "not guilty in the world of public opinion". 

There's really no doubt that Jabari severely injured a woman.  Is that the guy that most fans want to root for, or that sponsors want to support?


Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 16, 2018, 11:32:16 AM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.
But those guys don't have a seizure attack when they do evil things, you need an unhealthy brain to make that happen
they keep skipping that fact for some convenient reason

Nobody "keeps skipping" that.  It's because it's not really true.  For instance, as linked above, rage can lead to seizures.  Is it a criminal defense to a severe assault that "I got really, really angry"?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: nickagneta on September 16, 2018, 12:06:51 PM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.
But those guys don't have a seizure attack when they do evil things, you need an unhealthy brain to make that happen
they keep skipping that fact for some convenient reason

Nobody "keeps skipping" that.  It's because it's not really true.  For instance, as linked above, rage can lead to seizures.  Is it a criminal defense to a severe assault that "I got really, really angry"?
Just to be clear, my comment was directed specifically at the bolded comment that said people don't do these type of things without some sort of mental illness. I wasn't saying that Bird didn't do this because of mental illness. I was just pointing out that there are people who kill and rape that aren't mentally ill.

That out of the way, even if he is mentally ill, that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing and isn't responsible for the consequences. Most domestic violence occurs from learned behavior or are crimes of passion. Alcohol and drug addiction can exasperate the situation as well.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: playdream on September 16, 2018, 12:49:04 PM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.
But those guys don't have a seizure attack when they do evil things, you need an unhealthy brain to make that happen
they keep skipping that fact for some convenient reason

Nobody "keeps skipping" that.  It's because it's not really true.  For instance, as linked above, rage can lead to seizures.  Is it a criminal defense to a severe assault that "I got really, really angry"?
Just checked your link, it tells the exact opposite conclusion
"In the past, rage attacks were thought to be related to epilepsy or Tourette syndrome. This is now understood to be false"
"In very rare cases, limbic seizures can be linked to out-of-control behavior. However, this is uncommon"

So..
1.rage attack only very rarely cause limbic seizures, no lose of conscious
2.If bird did pass out after seizure, it most likely is a Generalized seizure of Epilepsy which definitely related to an unhealthy brain

I'm no expert in neuro-psyso area but it seems pretty clear to me, correct me if i'm wrong
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Emmette Bryant on September 16, 2018, 02:34:10 PM
I haven't read this whole thread, but just in case it hasn't been posted, here's a thorough analysis from an attorney

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/09/13/jabari-bird-celtics-domestic-violence-assault-charges-arrest
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 16, 2018, 02:56:01 PM
So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.
But those guys don't have a seizure attack when they do evil things, you need an unhealthy brain to make that happen
they keep skipping that fact for some convenient reason

Nobody "keeps skipping" that.  It's because it's not really true.  For instance, as linked above, rage can lead to seizures.  Is it a criminal defense to a severe assault that "I got really, really angry"?
Just checked your link, it tells the exact opposite conclusion
"In the past, rage attacks were thought to be related to epilepsy or Tourette syndrome. This is now understood to be false"
"In very rare cases, limbic seizures can be linked to out-of-control behavior. However, this is uncommon"

So..
1.rage attack only very rarely cause limbic seizures, no lose of conscious
2.If bird did pass out after seizure, it most likely is a Generalized seizure of Epilepsy which definitely related to an unhealthy brain

I'm no expert in neuro-psyso area but it seems pretty clear to me, correct me if i'm wrong

You're making some pretty big leaps there that aren't necessarily accurate.

Again, these are non-Epileptic seizures.  Where are you hearing that only epileptic seizures can result in loss of consciousness?  That's just not true.  And non-epileptic seizures aren't as rare as you're suggesting.  Looking up PNES, for instance.

And keep in mind, these are "seizure-like" symptoms, not necessarily actual seizures.



Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Ogaju on September 16, 2018, 07:35:36 PM
if the Celtics release Jabari before his criminal case is resolved does that in any way prejudice his defense?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Ogaju on September 16, 2018, 07:49:22 PM
I haven't read this whole thread, but just in case it hasn't been posted, here's a thorough analysis from an attorney

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/09/13/jabari-bird-celtics-domestic-violence-assault-charges-arrest

WOW what a comprehensive analysis. Good Job by the author.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 16, 2018, 08:16:27 PM
if the Celtics release Jabari before his criminal case is resolved does that in any way prejudice his defense?

Perhaps to some small degree with certain jurors.  Certainly less so than the average defendant who committed these offenses, who would be sitting in a jail cell.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Bobshot on September 16, 2018, 10:58:34 PM
I don't know if we really know the facts in this incident to make a proper judgment. We know that Bird was treated in a hospital, so he must have been injured. We don't know much about his girlfriend, though it sounds like she was injured, too. The stuff about being dragged around the apartment, etc.. would need verification.

The media tends to rush to judgment in these cases without knowing the facts, so the public forms an early view which may or may not be accurate.

I would like to know what really happened before I make any judgment. As for the Celtics, unfortunately they are more beholden to the media and public relations. And so more influenced by news stories.

My impression is that in most of these high profile domestic incidents, the male is usually the target of the blame. That may be the case here, but the facts need to be known.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: nickagneta on September 16, 2018, 11:07:21 PM
I don't know if we really know the facts in this incident to make a proper judgment. We know that Bird was treated in a hospital, so he must have been injured. We don't know much about his girlfriend, though it sounds like she was injured, too. The stuff about being dragged around the apartment, etc.. would need verification.

The media tends to rush to judgment in these cases without knowing the facts, so the public forms an early view which may or may not be accurate.

I would like to know what really happened before I make any judgment. As for the Celtics, unfortunately they are more beholden to the media and public relations. And so more influenced by news stories.

My impression is that in most of these high profile domestic incidents, the male is usually the target of the blame. That may be the case here, but the facts need to be known.
Bird texted his girlfriend that he would kill he himself if she didn't come back to the apartment. With verification, that would most likely put him into a psychological evaluation and a suicide watch. Just because he was in a hospital doesn't mean he was injured. At his arraignment he showed no outward signs of injury.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 17, 2018, 06:30:43 AM
I don't know if we really know the facts in this incident to make a proper judgment. We know that Bird was treated in a hospital, so he must have been injured. We don't know much about his girlfriend, though it sounds like she was injured, too. The stuff about being dragged around the apartment, etc.. would need verification.

The media tends to rush to judgment in these cases without knowing the facts, so the public forms an early view which may or may not be accurate.

I would like to know what really happened before I make any judgment. As for the Celtics, unfortunately they are more beholden to the media and public relations. And so more influenced by news stories.

My impression is that in most of these high profile domestic incidents, the male is usually the target of the blame. That may be the case here, but the facts need to be known.
Bird texted his girlfriend that he would kill he himself if she didn't come back to the apartment. With verification, that would most likely put him into a psychological evaluation and a suicide watch. Just because he was in a hospital doesn't mean he was injured. At his arraignment he showed no outward signs of injury.

Meanwhile, both the police and a doctor cerified the victim’s injuries, including cuts, extensive bruising, internal bleeding and injury to one eye.

Facts are out ther for those who want to listen to them.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Celtics4ever on September 17, 2018, 06:59:26 AM
Yeah, if he inflicted those injuries on his girlfriend, good riddance.   I liked his as a player, talk about blowing it...
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on September 17, 2018, 01:39:41 PM
Classic abuser line 'I'll kill myself if you leave!'


I don't know all that went down but that line doesn't sway me in his favor, if that's part of his mental health excuse. I can't count the number of times I have heard of an abuser using that tactic though.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on September 17, 2018, 02:33:43 PM
Bird will not make team. Ainge will find a veteran cut and sign them. Crawford is rumored to want to play here too. We dcon't need Bird's headaches.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: gift on September 18, 2018, 02:42:26 PM
So it looks like the Celtics were aware there were recent issues with Bird, though they did not foresee something like this happening. He had even already started treatment before the incident.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2018/09/source_celtics_jabari_bird_sought_treatment_before_domestic_violence?amp= (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2018/09/source_celtics_jabari_bird_sought_treatment_before_domestic_violence?amp=)

People around Bird have been aware that he recently had been experiencing, according to one source close to him, “panic attacks and things like that. It wasn’t a long-term thing, but everyone knew. The Celtics knew there was something going on and he was being treated.”

and

“This wasn’t one of the domestic-violence situations you usually see where someone gets jealous for one thing and loses control. There was something deeper going on here with (Bird). This was a bad situation.”
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on September 18, 2018, 03:13:24 PM
So it looks like the Celtics were aware there were recent issues with Bird, though they did not foresee something like this happening. He had even already started treatment before the incident.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2018/09/source_celtics_jabari_bird_sought_treatment_before_domestic_violence?amp= (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2018/09/source_celtics_jabari_bird_sought_treatment_before_domestic_violence?amp=)

People around Bird have been aware that he recently had been experiencing, according to one source close to him, “panic attacks and things like that. It wasn’t a long-term thing, but everyone knew. The Celtics knew there was something going on and he was being treated.”

and

“This wasn’t one of the domestic-violence situations you usually see where someone gets jealous for one thing and loses control. There was something deeper going on here with (Bird). This was a bad situation.”

Maybe we can finally put this victim shaming nonsense to bed.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Hank Finkel on September 18, 2018, 03:50:48 PM
You can only hope he can get the help he needs and can function normally in everyday life.  Basketball may or may not be in his future depending on the severity of his problems, not withstanding the crime he may be responsible for too.  It may be a long road back but hopefully things wil work out.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: IDreamCeltics on September 18, 2018, 04:04:51 PM
Per ESPN

"A source told ESPN that Bird had been receiving treatment with the help of a Celtics doctor and that medication could have played a role in the alleged attack."

Yikes.  Not a good decade for the Celtics' medical staff.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 18, 2018, 04:09:48 PM
Per ESPN

"A source told ESPN that Bird had been receiving treatment with the help of a Celtics doctor and that medication could have played a role in the alleged attack."

Yikes.  Not a good decade for the Celtics' medical staff.

My guess is that’s a pro-Jabari source.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: nickagneta on September 18, 2018, 04:46:56 PM
Per ESPN

"A source told ESPN that Bird had been receiving treatment with the help of a Celtics doctor and that medication could have played a role in the alleged attack."

Yikes.  Not a good decade for the Celtics' medical staff.
There you go. That's going to be Bird's defense. He isn't responsible for the severe side effects of medication prescribed for him by the team's medical staff. He was just following doctor's orders.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 18, 2018, 10:20:12 PM
Per ESPN

"A source told ESPN that Bird had been receiving treatment with the help of a Celtics doctor and that medication could have played a role in the alleged attack."

Yikes.  Not a good decade for the Celtics' medical staff.
the medical staff can’t foresee side effects. The science of stopping side effects isn’t exsctly easy
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on September 18, 2018, 10:21:07 PM
So it looks like the Celtics were aware there were recent issues with Bird, though they did not foresee something like this happening. He had even already started treatment before the incident.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2018/09/source_celtics_jabari_bird_sought_treatment_before_domestic_violence?amp= (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2018/09/source_celtics_jabari_bird_sought_treatment_before_domestic_violence?amp=)

People around Bird have been aware that he recently had been experiencing, according to one source close to him, “panic attacks and things like that. It wasn’t a long-term thing, but everyone knew. The Celtics knew there was something going on and he was being treated.”

and

“This wasn’t one of the domestic-violence situations you usually see where someone gets jealous for one thing and loses control. There was something deeper going on here with (Bird). This was a bad situation.”
i think there’s a chance he stays on the team. It seems like some medical related thing.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 18, 2018, 10:24:14 PM
So it looks like the Celtics were aware there were recent issues with Bird, though they did not foresee something like this happening. He had even already started treatment before the incident.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2018/09/source_celtics_jabari_bird_sought_treatment_before_domestic_violence?amp= (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2018/09/source_celtics_jabari_bird_sought_treatment_before_domestic_violence?amp=)

People around Bird have been aware that he recently had been experiencing, according to one source close to him, “panic attacks and things like that. It wasn’t a long-term thing, but everyone knew. The Celtics knew there was something going on and he was being treated.”

and

“This wasn’t one of the domestic-violence situations you usually see where someone gets jealous for one thing and loses control. There was something deeper going on here with (Bird). This was a bad situation.”
i think there’s a chance he stays on the team. It seems like some medical related thing.

0% chance.  Sponsors and most fans don't want to support somebody who tortured and severely injured his girlfriend.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tazzmaniac on September 18, 2018, 11:04:21 PM
So it looks like the Celtics were aware there were recent issues with Bird, though they did not foresee something like this happening. He had even already started treatment before the incident.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2018/09/source_celtics_jabari_bird_sought_treatment_before_domestic_violence?amp= (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2018/09/source_celtics_jabari_bird_sought_treatment_before_domestic_violence?amp=)

People around Bird have been aware that he recently had been experiencing, according to one source close to him, “panic attacks and things like that. It wasn’t a long-term thing, but everyone knew. The Celtics knew there was something going on and he was being treated.”

and

“This wasn’t one of the domestic-violence situations you usually see where someone gets jealous for one thing and loses control. There was something deeper going on here with (Bird). This was a bad situation.”
i think there’s a chance he stays on the team. It seems like some medical related thing.

0% chance.  Sponsors and most fans don't want to support somebody who tortured and severely injured his girlfriend.
It's not like Bird is star level talent.  He can be easily replaced with someone that doesn't have that baggage.   
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: gift on September 19, 2018, 09:56:24 AM
Per ESPN

"A source told ESPN that Bird had been receiving treatment with the help of a Celtics doctor and that medication could have played a role in the alleged attack."

Yikes.  Not a good decade for the Celtics' medical staff.

My guess is that’s a pro-Jabari source.

I don't know why the source matters if the information is accurate.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on September 19, 2018, 10:40:07 AM
Per ESPN

"A source told ESPN that Bird had been receiving treatment with the help of a Celtics doctor and that medication could have played a role in the alleged attack."

Yikes.  Not a good decade for the Celtics' medical staff.

My guess is that’s a pro-Jabari source.

I don't know why the source matters if the information is accurate.

We don’t know if it’s accurate, just that a source is trying to make it public.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: gouki88 on September 19, 2018, 10:41:34 AM
Per ESPN

"A source told ESPN that Bird had been receiving treatment with the help of a Celtics doctor and that medication could have played a role in the alleged attack."

Yikes.  Not a good decade for the Celtics' medical staff.

My guess is that’s a pro-Jabari source.

I don't know why the source matters if the information is accurate.

We don’t know if it’s accurate, just that a source is trying to make it public.
It didn't come off to me that he was implying that the info necessarily was accurate, but merely that it doesn't matter where it originates if it is
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: gift on September 19, 2018, 12:02:50 PM
Per ESPN

"A source told ESPN that Bird had been receiving treatment with the help of a Celtics doctor and that medication could have played a role in the alleged attack."

Yikes.  Not a good decade for the Celtics' medical staff.

My guess is that’s a pro-Jabari source.

I don't know why the source matters if the information is accurate.

We don’t know if it’s accurate, just that a source is trying to make it public.
It didn't come off to me that he was implying that the info necessarily was accurate, but merely that it doesn't matter where it originates if it is

You got it.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 19, 2018, 12:29:28 PM
There is a mental health component then.  I'm not following the firm stance that he is using medication as an excuse, it has to bode well for him that he sought mental health treatment before incident occurred.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JSD on October 01, 2018, 06:52:10 AM
Is it fair to say that this the point that the Celtics are on a wait and see with Jabari?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on October 01, 2018, 08:19:45 AM
Is it fair to say that this the point that the Celtics are on a wait and see with Jabari?

 They are waiting for the NBA to finish its investigation. If the Celtics cut him now, they are on the hook for his entire salary. If they wait for him to be suspended, They will get some monetary relief both on his salary and any corresponding luxury tax hit.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: JSD on October 03, 2018, 01:54:23 AM
Is it fair to say that this the point that the Celtics are on a wait and see with Jabari?

 They are waiting for the NBA to finish its investigation. If the Celtics cut him now, they are on the hook for his entire salary. If they wait for him to be suspended, They will get some monetary relief both on his salary and any corresponding luxury tax hit.

Thanks for clarification. I was wondering why he has not yet been cut.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: rollie mass on October 03, 2018, 07:25:25 AM
The league and Celtics were addressing mental health issues. Kevin Love and Marcus Morris both had recently come out in the press.
If Jabari had no past history of abuse was seeking help voluntarily and suffered a reaction that led to a psychotic episode or he had a psychotic breakdown as a result of a escalating illness.Then there is the possibility of having two victims.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on October 03, 2018, 07:45:57 AM
The league and Celtics were addressing mental health issues. Kevin Love and Marcus Morris both had recently come out in the press.
If Jabari had no past history of abuse was seeking help voluntarily and suffered a reaction that led to a psychotic episode or he had a psychotic breakdown as a result of a escalating illness.Then there is the possibility of having two victims.

I’d have a hard time calling Bird a “victim” here. 

I draw the line somewhere around torture but that’s just me...
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: rollie mass on October 03, 2018, 09:40:36 AM
If a psychotic episode is brought on by reaction to prescribed medication, how can that person be responsible. Under those circumstances THERE IS A POSSIBILITY of two victims.
IF! IF this was as a result of a psychosis brought on by medication or improperly diagnosed and untreated.Even maybe too early but something wasn't right and he sought out help.
These were the actions of a very sick young man.

This kid used to go to bed with his trainers on,he went to college played ball with Jaylen and now just signed a two year several million dollar contract.
Maybe pro basketball did it to him-the pressure to perform ,the anxiety of feeling not good enough or it was going to be taken away.
Something pushed him over the edge into insanity
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on October 03, 2018, 12:02:52 PM
If a psychotic episode is brought on by reaction to prescribed medication, how can that person be responsible. Under those circumstances THERE IS A POSSIBILITY of two victims.
IF! IF this was as a result of a psychosis brought on by medication or improperly diagnosed and untreated.Even maybe too early but something wasn't right and he sought out help.
These were the actions of a very sick young man.

This kid used to go to bed with his trainers on,he went to college played ball with Jaylen and now just signed a two year several million dollar contract.
Maybe pro basketball did it to him-the pressure to perform ,the anxiety of feeling not good enough or it was going to be taken away.
Something pushed him over the edge into insanity

Does he have any personal responsibility?

What if the meds didn't make him psychotic, but just made him more prone to anger? Who’s fault is it then? In general, we do not give a pass to criminals just because they were having a hard time handling themselves emotionally.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on October 03, 2018, 12:06:04 PM
If a psychotic episode is brought on by reaction to prescribed medication, how can that person be responsible. Under those circumstances THERE IS A POSSIBILITY of two victims.
IF! IF this was as a result of a psychosis brought on by medication or improperly diagnosed and untreated.Even maybe too early but something wasn't right and he sought out help.
These were the actions of a very sick young man.

This kid used to go to bed with his trainers on,he went to college played ball with Jaylen and now just signed a two year several million dollar contract.
Maybe pro basketball did it to him-the pressure to perform ,the anxiety of feeling not good enough or it was going to be taken away.
Something pushed him over the edge into insanity

Does he have any personal responsibility?

What if the meds didn't make him psychotic, but just made him more prone to anger? Who’s fault is it then? In general, we do not give a pass to criminals just because they were having a hard time handling themselves emotionally.

And where do we draw the line on a subject becoming a victim? Ted Bundy was clearly insane was he a victim of his own insanity?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Donoghus on October 03, 2018, 12:09:36 PM
If a psychotic episode is brought on by reaction to prescribed medication, how can that person be responsible. Under those circumstances THERE IS A POSSIBILITY of two victims.
IF! IF this was as a result of a psychosis brought on by medication or improperly diagnosed and untreated.Even maybe too early but something wasn't right and he sought out help.
These were the actions of a very sick young man.

This kid used to go to bed with his trainers on,he went to college played ball with Jaylen and now just signed a two year several million dollar contract.
Maybe pro basketball did it to him-the pressure to perform ,the anxiety of feeling not good enough or it was going to be taken away.
Something pushed him over the edge into insanity

Does he have any personal responsibility?

What if the meds didn't make him psychotic, but just made him more prone to anger? Who’s fault is it then? In general, we do not give a pass to criminals just because they were having a hard time handling themselves emotionally.

And where do we draw the line on a subject becoming a victim? Ted Bundy was clearly insane was he a victim of his own insanity?

My guess is that part of the problem for some here is the color of the laundry Bird wears. 
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Eddie20 on October 03, 2018, 12:11:44 PM
If a psychotic episode is brought on by reaction to prescribed medication, how can that person be responsible. Under those circumstances THERE IS A POSSIBILITY of two victims.
IF! IF this was as a result of a psychosis brought on by medication or improperly diagnosed and untreated.Even maybe too early but something wasn't right and he sought out help.
These were the actions of a very sick young man.

This kid used to go to bed with his trainers on,he went to college played ball with Jaylen and now just signed a two year several million dollar contract.
Maybe pro basketball did it to him-the pressure to perform ,the anxiety of feeling not good enough or it was going to be taken away.
Something pushed him over the edge into insanity

Does he have any personal responsibility?

What if the meds didn't make him psychotic, but just made him more prone to anger? Who’s fault is it then? In general, we do not give a pass to criminals just because they were having a hard time handling themselves emotionally.

And where do we draw the line on a subject becoming a victim? Ted Bundy was clearly insane was he a victim of his own insanity?

My guess is that part of the problem for some here is the color of the laundry Bird wears.

Exactly. The empathy that should be directed to the REAL victim is misplaced.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on October 03, 2018, 12:39:09 PM
If a psychotic episode is brought on by reaction to prescribed medication, how can that person be responsible. Under those circumstances THERE IS A POSSIBILITY of two victims.
IF! IF this was as a result of a psychosis brought on by medication or improperly diagnosed and untreated.Even maybe too early but something wasn't right and he sought out help.
These were the actions of a very sick young man.

This kid used to go to bed with his trainers on,he went to college played ball with Jaylen and now just signed a two year several million dollar contract.
Maybe pro basketball did it to him-the pressure to perform ,the anxiety of feeling not good enough or it was going to be taken away.
Something pushed him over the edge into insanity

Does he have any personal responsibility?

What if the meds didn't make him psychotic, but just made him more prone to anger? Who’s fault is it then? In general, we do not give a pass to criminals just because they were having a hard time handling themselves emotionally.

And where do we draw the line on a subject becoming a victim? Ted Bundy was clearly insane was he a victim of his own insanity?

Of course he was.  Someone can spend life in prison or get the chair due to their heinous acts and the danger they pose to society and also be a victim.  It wasn't his choice to be born a psychopath.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on October 03, 2018, 12:50:06 PM
If a psychotic episode is brought on by reaction to prescribed medication, how can that person be responsible. Under those circumstances THERE IS A POSSIBILITY of two victims.
IF! IF this was as a result of a psychosis brought on by medication or improperly diagnosed and untreated.Even maybe too early but something wasn't right and he sought out help.
These were the actions of a very sick young man.

This kid used to go to bed with his trainers on,he went to college played ball with Jaylen and now just signed a two year several million dollar contract.
Maybe pro basketball did it to him-the pressure to perform ,the anxiety of feeling not good enough or it was going to be taken away.
Something pushed him over the edge into insanity

Does he have any personal responsibility?

What if the meds didn't make him psychotic, but just made him more prone to anger? Who’s fault is it then? In general, we do not give a pass to criminals just because they were having a hard time handling themselves emotionally.

And where do we draw the line on a subject becoming a victim? Ted Bundy was clearly insane was he a victim of his own insanity?

Of course he was.  Someone can spend life in prison or get the chair due to their heinous acts and the danger they pose to society and also be a victim.  It wasn't his choice to be born a psychopath.

You know, we discuss this a lot at the courthouse.  I feel both sympathy and scorn for pedophiles. Sympathy, because they didn’t choose these urges and sexual compulsions. It has to be a terrible way to live. Scorn, because they don’t adequately resist those urges, and in the process, destroy lives.

Ultimately, I think the system has to focus the bulk of its resources and sympathies to the victims.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hwangjini_1 on October 03, 2018, 01:34:35 PM
If a psychotic episode is brought on by reaction to prescribed medication, how can that person be responsible. Under those circumstances THERE IS A POSSIBILITY of two victims.
IF! IF this was as a result of a psychosis brought on by medication or improperly diagnosed and untreated.Even maybe too early but something wasn't right and he sought out help.
These were the actions of a very sick young man.

This kid used to go to bed with his trainers on,he went to college played ball with Jaylen and now just signed a two year several million dollar contract.
Maybe pro basketball did it to him-the pressure to perform ,the anxiety of feeling not good enough or it was going to be taken away.
Something pushed him over the edge into insanity

Does he have any personal responsibility?

What if the meds didn't make him psychotic, but just made him more prone to anger? Who’s fault is it then? In general, we do not give a pass to criminals just because they were having a hard time handling themselves emotionally.
yes roy, but you know this works both ways.

does he have full and complete personal responsibility?

what if they DID make him psychotic and more prone to anger. who's fault is it then?

in general, we do give a pass to people-who-cannot-control-themselves-due-to meds just because they are unable to control themselves emotionally?

your point begs the question, no? no one is arguing "give him a pass even though he is responsible for his actions." the arguments are IF he is NOT responsible fully for those actions, then it is not appropriate to hold him responsible.

for me, until we have evidence one way or the other, i favor waiting before judging.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hwangjini_1 on October 03, 2018, 01:40:41 PM
If a psychotic episode is brought on by reaction to prescribed medication, how can that person be responsible. Under those circumstances THERE IS A POSSIBILITY of two victims.
IF! IF this was as a result of a psychosis brought on by medication or improperly diagnosed and untreated.Even maybe too early but something wasn't right and he sought out help.
These were the actions of a very sick young man.

This kid used to go to bed with his trainers on,he went to college played ball with Jaylen and now just signed a two year several million dollar contract.
Maybe pro basketball did it to him-the pressure to perform ,the anxiety of feeling not good enough or it was going to be taken away.
Something pushed him over the edge into insanity

Does he have any personal responsibility?

What if the meds didn't make him psychotic, but just made him more prone to anger? Who’s fault is it then? In general, we do not give a pass to criminals just because they were having a hard time handling themselves emotionally.

And where do we draw the line on a subject becoming a victim? Ted Bundy was clearly insane was he a victim of his own insanity?

Of course he was.  Someone can spend life in prison or get the chair due to their heinous acts and the danger they pose to society and also be a victim.  It wasn't his choice to be born a psychopath.

You know, we discuss this a lot at the courthouse.  I feel both sympathy and scorn for pedophiles. Sympathy, because they didn’t choose these urges and sexual compulsions. It has to be a terrible way to live. Scorn, because they don’t adequately resist those urges, and in the process, destroy lives.

Ultimately, I think the system has to focus the bulk of its resources and sympathies to the victims.
roy, may i suggest you read a very, very interesting book that changed the way i view personal responsibility and how our social/legal systems teach us to understand how people behave?

i promise you, this is an easy and entertaining read. but it changed how i see people and my concept on individuals. now, when i view incidents such as this one, i see them differently and realize our legal system is ill equipped to deal with such people.

plus, it has a number of really fascinating and interesting stories about brains that are worth reading.  ;D

the book is titled Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain.

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: nickagneta on October 03, 2018, 01:45:45 PM
If a psychotic episode is brought on by reaction to prescribed medication, how can that person be responsible. Under those circumstances THERE IS A POSSIBILITY of two victims.
IF! IF this was as a result of a psychosis brought on by medication or improperly diagnosed and untreated.Even maybe too early but something wasn't right and he sought out help.
These were the actions of a very sick young man.

This kid used to go to bed with his trainers on,he went to college played ball with Jaylen and now just signed a two year several million dollar contract.
Maybe pro basketball did it to him-the pressure to perform ,the anxiety of feeling not good enough or it was going to be taken away.
Something pushed him over the edge into insanity

Does he have any personal responsibility?

What if the meds didn't make him psychotic, but just made him more prone to anger? Who’s fault is it then? In general, we do not give a pass to criminals just because they were having a hard time handling themselves emotionally.
yes roy, but you know this works both ways.

does he have full and complete personal responsibility?

what if they DID make him psychotic and more prone to anger. who's fault is it then?

in general, we do give a pass to people-who-cannot-control-themselves-due-to meds just because they are unable to control themselves emotionally?

your point begs the question, no? no one is arguing "give him a pass even though he is responsible for his actions." the arguments are IF he is NOT responsible fully for those actions, then it is not appropriate to hold him responsible.

for me, until we have evidence one way or the other, i favor waiting before judging.
Trying to excuse a crime using mental illness or drug use is completely allowed. And that person who committed that crime should be given the help they need to get healthy. But that's a far cry from being a victim. The people they hurt are the victims.

I mean, are people who are on recreational drugs who commit crimes because they are addicted victims? How about people who drink and drive who hurt people? Are they victims? Where do you draw the line of victimization?

I am sorry but I don't call people who hurt others victims. You can call them a lot of things but victims isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: Roy H. on October 03, 2018, 01:46:27 PM
Hwanghini:  Sure, I’ll pick it up and let you know what I thought.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: hwangjini_1 on October 03, 2018, 08:23:19 PM
Hwanghini:  Sure, I’ll pick it up and let you know what I thought.
Great. I am not in agreement with the authors final points on our legal system, but his initial arguments on how it’s assumptions do not align with new ideas on brains is compelling, enjoy!

I learned a lot and it made me think. What more can we ask of a book?  ;D
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: rondofan1255 on January 30, 2019, 02:35:04 PM
https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/1/30/18203856/jabari-bird-facing-two-new-charges-domestic-violence-case-court-brighton-boston-celtics-arrest-nba

Quote
Jabari Bird facing two new charges in domestic violence case

Both charges stem from the same September incident.

Boston Celtics guard Jabari Bird appeared in Brighton Municipal Court on Wednesday and pleaded not guilty to new charges of witness intimidation and threatening to commit a crime. Both counts are from the same September domestic violence incident, per court documents that were made public in Brighton on Wednesday.

Bird faces charges of strangulation, assault, and kidnapping from said September incident, where he reportedly choked a woman in his Brighton residence twelve times during the assault. He was arraigned and released on $50,000 bail in September.

The 24-year-old has not been with the team since his arrest, but is still under contract while the NBA continues their league investigation. He is listed each day on the Celtics injury report as “out”, for “personal reasons”.

Bird signed a two-year, $3 million minimum deal with the Celtics this past summer.

His next court date is scheduled for February 13th.
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: ozgod on January 30, 2019, 07:06:47 PM
https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/1/30/18203856/jabari-bird-facing-two-new-charges-domestic-violence-case-court-brighton-boston-celtics-arrest-nba

Quote
Jabari Bird facing two new charges in domestic violence case

Both charges stem from the same September incident.

Boston Celtics guard Jabari Bird appeared in Brighton Municipal Court on Wednesday and pleaded not guilty to new charges of witness intimidation and threatening to commit a crime. Both counts are from the same September domestic violence incident, per court documents that were made public in Brighton on Wednesday.

Bird faces charges of strangulation, assault, and kidnapping from said September incident, where he reportedly choked a woman in his Brighton residence twelve times during the assault. He was arraigned and released on $50,000 bail in September.

The 24-year-old has not been with the team since his arrest, but is still under contract while the NBA continues their league investigation. He is listed each day on the Celtics injury report as “out”, for “personal reasons”.

Bird signed a two-year, $3 million minimum deal with the Celtics this past summer.

His next court date is scheduled for February 13th.

The wheels of justice turn slowly
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: nickagneta on January 30, 2019, 07:09:19 PM
Will the courts and NBA finish stuff up before the Celtics have to figure out whether Bird is part of their team payroll to determine if and how much they are into the tax?
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: CelticsElite on January 30, 2019, 09:10:53 PM
Will the courts and NBA finish stuff up before the Celtics have to figure out whether Bird is part of their team payroll to determine if and how much they are into the tax?
I have a feeling they're going to let the court decide. Innocent before proven guilty
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: bdm860 on January 30, 2019, 09:49:19 PM
Will the courts and NBA finish stuff up before the Celtics have to figure out whether Bird is part of their team payroll to determine if and how much they are into the tax?

I believe the deadline on that is June 30.  That's what I think it is anyway. 

Everyone thinks the C's need to make a deal by the trade deadline if they're going to avoid the tax this year, but I'm under the impression that they can trade any player not on an expiring contract (so Bird, Yabu, Semi, Williams) any time after their season ends but before July 1 to get below the tax.

Theoretically the team could trade Bird (and/or Yabu, Semi, Williams) on June 30th for a heavily protected 2nd round pick, and none of their salary would hit the C's books for 2018.  So no rush yet, he should be easy to move if they have to.

A couple of notes on this per the CBA faq, though not spelled out specifically:
"When the trade deadline has passed. Teams are free to make trades again once their season has ended4, but cannot trade players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO."

"Playoff teams can trade players during the playoffs who are not on their playoff roster."

"When a player is traded, his full season salary is transferred to the team salary of his new team, and he counts $0 toward his old team's team salary."
Title: Re: Jabari Bird arrested
Post by: rondofan1255 on February 07, 2019, 05:35:09 PM
 Traded and waived