Author Topic: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?  (Read 17247 times)

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Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2008, 02:19:58 AM »

Offline BigThreePeat

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As someone who just successfully closed the deal exactly 16 minutes ago (she just left) ...

No offense, brother, but if you're on Celticsblog (in the offseason no less) only a few minutes after gettin it on... well I think it may be time to re-examine your life. The first step to recovery is admitting you have an addiction.

From Dom to Ted in "There's Something about Mary"

Quote
           The most honest moment in a man's life is
           the five minutes after he's ___________.
           That's a medical fact. And it's because
           you're no longer trying to get laid.

Fellas... I got my priorities straight.  I adore you, CelticsBlog.


Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2008, 02:27:21 AM »

Offline Sweet17

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A bit of both.. Though I would say acting like a jerk if it's not in your nature is a fast path to nowhere, IMHO.

Women are looking for several things in a mate - as per their evolutionary drives.

Women are complicated in that they have sometimes conflicting evolutionary drives (and their is evidence their desires can change at various times of the month - yes I am serious). Women are looking for the provider (thus money) but also someone who could obtain resources for their children in a dire circumstance (the jerk or more accurately the alpha male). They are also looking for superior genes (the looks). The nice guy bit comes from wanting a guy who will look after their needs. It's not that useful if your "guy' is going to spend his resources on other women. So it's a balancing act..

I think though it's more prudent to find a women that fits who YOU are then try to change to win them over. Women's particular desires vary on an individual basis. For example very intelligent women put less emphasis on finding a provider because they can do it themselves. :P I was just reading about this in Men's Health.

A bit of warning about the jerk and the internet folks who push it..

I saw this TV show about dating and they had the guys who were preaching the "jerk" mentality you see on the internet. They had 'group' and professed to be experts in picking up women. But when tested empirically in a speed dating type of enviroment they did the worst.

The men who did the best - they were linked by height. Not surprisingly being "tall" beat out this so called strategy.

Pete

Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2008, 02:32:35 AM »

Offline BigThreePeat

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A bit of both.. Though I would say acting like a jerk if it's not in your nature is a fast path to nowhere, IMHO.

Women are looking for several things in a mate - as per their evolutionary drives.

Women are complicated in that they have sometimes conflicting evolutionary drives (and their is evidence their desires can change at various times of the month - yes I am serious). Women are looking for the provider (thus money) but also someone who could obtain resources for their children in a dire circumstance (the jerk or more accurately the alpha male). They are also looking for superior genes (the looks). The nice guy bit comes from wanting a guy who will look after their needs. It's not that useful if your "guy' is going to spend his resources on other women. So it's a balancing act..

I think though it's more prudent to find a women that fits who YOU are then try to change to win them over. Women's particular desires vary on an individual basis. For example very intelligent women put less emphasis on finding a provider because they can do it themselves. :P I was just reading about this in Men's Health.

A bit of warning about the jerk and the internet folks who push it..

I saw this TV show about dating and they had the guys who were preaching the "jerk" mentality you see on the internet. They had 'group' and professed to be experts in picking up women. But when tested empirically in a speed dating type of enviroment they did the worst.

The men who did the best - they were linked by height. Not surprisingly being "tall" beat out this so called strategy.

Pete

I'd say the guys who are successful at pulling off the "jerk" mentality wouldn't be successful in a speed dating environment, because the simple act of attending a "speed date" environment reeks of desperation and in essence cancels out the point of successfully playing off the "cocky, arrogant, one-track mind jerk" who knocks women's self esteem and makes themselves desirable in the process.

It's like trying to pull off the "jerk" thing by sending girls random messages on myspace.  Aint gonna work.  The fact you're the nerd sending them random messages automatically makes you "desperate guy desperate to get laid"

Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2008, 02:39:34 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Lacking confidence is a killer, even if it is just a perceived lack of confidence.

The inability to keep eye contact is also pretty bad. Eye contact leads to automatic sexual tension, and looks confident.

Being a jerk is probably good for picking up the psychos who boil your cat.

Being aggressive on the other hand will get you more hot women, though not necessarily a higher success rate. You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take. Approaching a lot of hot women increases the chances of hooking up with one.

If you aren't trying to just hook up and you aren't going for a women with self esteem problems, than just work on the confidence and don't be too self-conscious.

Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2008, 06:38:14 AM »

Offline davemonsterband

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If you're going after hot chicks marriage has nothing to do with it so ignore that whole point right off the bat, the bubble gum lovely dove stuff doesn't exist to you, that stuff exists after the fact. The just being yourself nonsense is for the Cosby's. If you're going after 10's make yourself a 10, if you truly were one already we wouldn't be having this conversation, so that's your biggest problem right there. Getting them specifically takes everything you've got from the ground up, there's no one tactic that works on its own, this is how I do it but it's going to take a whole lot of writing.

The reason why I'm pompous enough to say all this is because I had NO skills until about just over two years ago and I am very aware of the changes in philosophy I've had to undertake to get on this level with women. Ladies like that were a dream to me for about 15 years (I'm 28) and now that I'm getting them I can see how stupid I was all this time, but in all honesty, they're not worth the effort, I used to care because I couldn't do it, now that I can I'm back to girls with substance, either way, here's what I did/do.

I went from a 275 lb jersey wearing C's freak gamer to a 225 lb career oriented well kept guy, I now surround myself with supremely positive people, people with ambitious goals and dreams, no deadbeats, no drifters, winners, and 10's, generally, are also winners. If you're not black and white about that, about who's a winner and who isn't, they will be, it's up to you to define that with your own set of criteria. And let me say up front, if you're sensitive and you think that being truthful matters you're a better person than I am, I could care less. If I laugh at the end of the day I did what's right, period.

For guys, you don't have to look like a hunk to make it happen, you have to be highly well-kept and fashionable of course, but you just have to be the baddest dude in the room, close to it anyway. Everyone now knows confidence steals every woman, but 10's have seen that all their lives, nobody hits on them that's not confident, you have to give them more. First and foremost, you get 10's all the time, she's not above you, she's your norm, believe it even if it's false. If you can't stay cool just quit now. The average fool who thinks he's as good as you will come across as someone trying too hard or inadequate, you have to play it off as real, internally we're all dorks, who doesn't love Star Wars and Transformers? She doesn't have to know that. Video games do not exist to you. You got that scar on your hand working on your grandmother's car, not peeling an orange. Being the bad guy should mean being a curt and cunning jerk to anyone that's saying something negative about you and her friends, not your friends, hers. Use dry whit, not obvious humor. Obvious humor gets you nothing, most people are too run-of-the-mill to not be obvious and that's why most people get lackluster responses. Don't cut up your boys in order to jack yourself up, jack them up and tell her and them how great they are and how you support them, but at the same time stress how you beat the crap out of one of them a few years ago for saying something negative about one of the other guy's sisters. NEVER be self deprecating, period, for any reason.

What do we all want in a woman? Cute, funny, sexy, some things in the bedroom, endearing, strong, gritty, stands up for herself, has her own friends, isn't annoying, doesn't depend on you 24/7, isn't a whiner, isn't a slob, has a job, has a will of her own, they want the same thing from us. Exemplify all of those qualities more so than anyone else she's seen in the last two weeks. When a group of girls falls in love with some guy we almost always say "are you kidding me, look at him, he's a dork, he's a loser, etc", it's because they know something about him that we can't see or know, that how you know he's got game. The only way outside people should know you're a stud is from your track record, the rest is your secret, everyone talks. Bragging will destroy you.

I don't know about you guys but I've had more hot girls in relationships with my male friends hitting on me than anyone else because I truly don't care about putting a show on in front of them and in all actuality when it comes down to being myself and one on one with them i am a very nice and trustable guy, but them realizing that takes many months, when they do things get awkward. Just being yourself is a good rule if you want to wait for many weeks but you can't be your true self in one, two, three or four nights, and to accelerate the process with you have to take those drastic measures. I've nabbed about 6 or 7 10's in my life (as in couldn't be hotter, literally) and that's how I do it, I'm not a great looking guy, I have a beer belly, I weigh 225, I just go to comedy school so I have a unique hook, I don't take crap from anyone, I come across as extremely trustable and I never insult the people I care about or the people I'm rolling with, I constantly build them up. My motto is why knock me down when you can build me up, if one of your friends thinks it's funny to poke fun at you for anything, period, in front of other people, you're rolling with losers and you probably are one yourself for tolerating it.

If a girl's that hot she's that hot because she manicures her body like a princess, and she's also usually a perfectionist. Pick out her most glaringly negative physical trait (if prudent) and compliment it like it's the best thing that she has to offer. Whisper it to her like it's something that everybody says to her all the time and make her fully believe you're telling her the truth. That's a hard one to juggle, but if she has freckles tell her how much you absolutely love freckles, odds are she doesn't like them, the rest is assumed and if you don't talk about those things she'll always be off balance in knowing what you think of her, she'll know you love what she hates about herself, that will hook her in, don't give her the rest. Common sense stuff but people screw it up more often than not.

I also feel like I'm close to mastering this, use extremely filthy metaphors, ones so filthy that there's no way you could actually be meaning what you're saying. That's my personal tactic, THAT is being a bad dude. Give her a very subtle one, she'll give you one back. Then you give her one back. Then she gives you one back. Then you requote one of hers if you can find a way to trigger it. That's when you ignore her, give her the odd look, INTENSE eye contact, but be periodic. They know and you know, if you bring it up you're a lame-o. Acknowledging the moment is the kiss of death. I wish I could quote some of the ones I've used in the past but it'd be against site rules, but you talk about foreplay, pull that off in front of 10-15 people while letting her know that you don't give a [dang] if anyone catches on while only having her catch on, wow, she'll be weak all night long. It's yours and her little secret. It's as if they're cheating on their boyfriends, which they love to do in their fantasies more than anything, that's how they feel, and that gets them hot. Now it's time to go in for the kill. And nobody can tell me otherwise, they will always outdirty you at that game, it works EVERY time if she's remotely interested, what we know about **** they know about filthy talk. They want to be as naughty as possible with you while looking as respectable as possible to everyone else but you, that's where the trust is formed. Get her heart racing and don't let up. She wants to trust her friend with secrets, she wants to trust you with letting you know she's a dirty little girl while feeling fully confident in the fact that you'll never let anyone know but her. NEVER TELL YOUR FRIENDS WHAT YOU'RE DOING WITH HER. Don't even hint at it, there's always someone watching. "Hey dude, what's up with you and X?", "We're having a good conversation", reveal no more. If your friend looks her while he's asking you, he's bush league, don't let it happen twice.

And I hate to say this because using this word is not the most manly thing to do, but seriously man, think you're sexy. If you're not, who cares, think it and know it. Don't portray it but believe it. 10's think that, male or female. She looks great because that's how she thinks she looks/feels compared to the other girls in the room, if you don't think that about yourself about your side of the population you are everybody else, you're the other 99% of the male population.

To answer your question, it sounds to me like you're lacking the skills to make a run at these girls if you're asking that question. Maybe you're not, all I know is what works for me, but before I kicked it up a notch the first thing my Hitch-like buddy got me to do was read this book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game:_Penetrating_the_Secret_Society_of_Pickup_Artists), afterwards, observe your friends who have success at this as much as possible, swallow your pride and follow a dude like him, that's what I did. Read, learn, observe, apply. Any girl I get to talk to for more than 10 minutes, generally, I feel I have about a 30-40% chance of getting her if I apply myself, period, and it's only because of my friend's tutelage and me being secure enough to admit up front he was on a higher plain them me. I look at it like boxing, you have to train and you have to be humble around the greats and learn. Never get jealous, there's too much to gain. Just do it internally, analyze. The jock garbage, the college rules, the spoil/ignore, nice guy/bad guy stuff is hogwash, those are all attributes, gimmicks are for amateurs. I'm not cut and 6'3" with amazing hair and a Mercedes, some dudes are blessed, most of us are not, it's all skill.

Wrong or right by other people's opinions these things work for me, but generally, it's much too much work and girls like that are much too much like a sport, once again, like Swingers. But in the end I want cute sweeties, I just made a point of being capable of this because it ticked me off to see other people doing it, why not me?

Money and surrounding yourself with the right people doesn't hurt either, but that's pretty obvious.

Once you get her, be yourself as fast as possible, try to move on before you fall for her, girls that hot are dangerous, treat them as such. Let the cat out of the bag as early as possible and if she sticks around she's a true keeper, if she's put off by it who cares, move on? You did it once, you can do it again, and it gets easier each time, confidence snowballs. I know people in here are saying you have bad priorities etc. for making looks be the almighty important thing but if that's what you want go get it, when you want to settle settle, when you want to be nice be nice, when you want to be mature be mature. Do whatever the hell you want, you only live once. That's my advice.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2008, 06:51:29 AM by davemonsterband »
"The Best Revenge Is Massive Success"
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Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2008, 06:50:19 AM »

Offline davemonsterband

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please delete sorry mods
"The Best Revenge Is Massive Success"
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Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2008, 06:53:36 AM »

Offline celticmaestro

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Redz pretty much nailed it but davemonsterband deserves special credit for that write-up. I'd say that looks are not everything, but confidence goes a long way.

Confidence, not sheer arrogance.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2008, 07:15:33 AM by celticmaestro »

Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2008, 07:27:52 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Confidence.  It all starts with self-confidence.  If you can't show that, you're dead in the water.

Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2008, 12:55:51 PM »

Offline MBz

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Confidence.  It all starts with self-confidence.  If you can't show that, you're dead in the water.

Exactly.  It's all about confidence.  Even if youre nervous when you talk to girls, don't show it.  Act comfortable, act cool.
do it

Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2008, 01:16:04 PM »

Offline BigThreePeat

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good writeup from davemonsterbad, but it's important to note he lives in Canada.  Chicks in Canada are pretty much better in every way.   Theres no obesity and the girls don't seem as evil.  Plus, some drunken cutie randomly made out with me outside a club in Vancouver after knowing me for 2 minutes.  I officially want to move to Canada. 

Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2008, 01:18:43 PM »

Offline Cman

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Confidence and being a nice guy.  I think my wife would agree that it is the "nice guy" in me she loves best.

There is never a need to be a jerk in general, and if you think you need to be a jerk to get a woman, then i guess my only advice would be careful what you wish for.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2008, 01:41:54 PM »

Offline incoherent

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4 things to get any girl

1. be kissable (clean)
2. be quiet
3. when you do speak be literate
4. take pride in your clothes

Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2008, 01:48:25 PM »

Offline Mr October

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At first every girl wants to be with Batman - dark, dangerous, still a hero... but then when a girl is ready to settle down, she wants to be with Superman - the "good guy", reliable, still a hero.

Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2008, 02:20:05 PM »

Offline Robb

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My motto is why knock me down when you can build me up, if one of your friends thinks it's funny to poke fun at you for anything, period, in front of other people, you're rolling with losers and you probably are one yourself for tolerating it.

If I could give more TPs to you right now I would give you one for this sentence and one for the rest of the post.  Wish I could.

davemonsterband already made a point like this, but if you think you're a seven and you're aiming for a ten, you've already lost.  Act like a ten and you'll become a ten and you'll get tens. 

That works in any situation, by the way.  Act like you are something and before you know it, you'll be it.  Just make sure you know what you're trying to become before you aim for it, though.
We're the ones we've been waiting for.

Re: What works with women better: Nice guy or jerk?
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2008, 02:44:15 PM »

Offline warriorspirit

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so you want to be a "player"...here are my rules

1 lots of people hit on this one...you must have Confidence

2 have a large group of female friends that you NEVER try to sleep with. Both good looking and not. (level 1 women)

3 Never talk about your sex life and who you have been with

4 have some mystery about you. don't tell people everything.

5 with the level 1 women be nice and cool with them. You can flurt a little but be careful never let them think you want them or that they have a chance with you no matter how hot they are.

6 if you can pull off the cool, confident, nice, mystery guy with the level 1 women they will start setting you up with their friends. Because you are so cool and never seem to hit on them. this is level 2 women

7 when meeting a level 2 woman never sleep with her right away. you want to meet all the friends in that circle and pick the hottest one to "work on" because (and this is very importain!!!) NEVER SLEEP WITH MORE THAN ONE WOMEN FROM THE SAME CIRCLE OF FRIENDS EVER!!!

8 when you find the one you want you can flurt but make her think she can't have you. this is what the "bad boys" pull off so good. they make the women work for it. and if they are trying to get you then you are in control. As so as they feel in control (ya he wants me.) they will loss interst.

9 the hardest part about this system is that moment when you finaly "give in" to her wanting you. You got to move from this point to sleeping with her very fast or you will loss it.

This system takes about 3 months to get going but works great. As for me...I'm older now. going to be getting married next year, soon to start having kids so I'm out of the game. But for you young guys...Go out have fun. Don't be in too much of a rush to "grow up" that time will come. and good luck.