Rajon Rondo and the State of the Kings

[kozlodoev]

This is what Rondo is now, post-injury:

12 pts, 8-9 ast, 4-5 reb, 1-2 stl, 40% / 30% / 40%

He's not hurting their pace, though.  Sac is top 5 in pace so far.


I'm glad to see him proving he can be a useful player in the NBA, still.  Also glad the Celts didn't give him a long term contract.

You say post-injury,  I say post KG/PP.

Also, he's got ways to go to get to 30% from three.

[PhoSita]

This is what Rondo is now, post-injury:

12 pts, 8-9 ast, 4-5 reb, 1-2 stl, 40% / 30% / 40%

He's not hurting their pace, though.  Sac is top 5 in pace so far.


I'm glad to see him proving he can be a useful player in the NBA, still.  Also glad the Celts didn't give him a long term contract.

You say post-injury,  I say post KG/PP.

Also, he's got ways to go to get to 30% from three.

I think I saw he was at 30% after the first few games of the season, I imagine it's dipped below that by now.

I'm in agreement with you on the post KG / PP thing.  Rondo hasn't looked particularly good since the 2012 playoffs, basically, which was the last time he was playing next to KG and PP and those guys commanded a lot of defensive attention.  I guess you could also say "post Ray Allen."

But like I said, I think he's showing he still has a place in the NBA, though I imagine he'll bounce around bad teams desperate for passing competence at point guard.  Even that is a bit of a surprise to me.  Kinda thought after the Dallas thing he'd flame out in Sacramento and then end up in China.

Still time for that, though, I suppose.

[gift]

I attribute much of Rondo's relative low value/ineffectiveness to the way the NBA has changed over the last 4-5 years. Offenses are more spread out now which allows other point guards more room to operate and create, like Rondo was able to do in the past with less room.

Most point guards still can't really operate the same way Rondo did and still kinda does. But it doesn't matter, because there are better ways for them to play within new offenses.

[saynomore]

He's playing alright now, I mean he's not worse player in the NBA. People act like it's not his tenth season, but it is. He was a decent player in his prime, his defence was alright too apart from KG or PP. It's like when somehow he eventually land in China, everyone will throw up a worldwide-party or something as huge, like even some of you cannot wait till it happen. It's ridiculous. At some point right now, he's still in a new team. In last two games he played 40+ minutes, cause Collision and Seth are both injured. But okay let's blame him again for 1-7 start of the season

[saynomore]

It's annoying what suddenly cause 'he is not the same type of the player anymore', some of you would like to take away all his past achievements with celtics and give full credit to PP and KG only.. few years ago you wouldn't say so

[PhoSita]

I attribute much of Rondo's relative low value/ineffectiveness to the way the NBA has changed over the last 4-5 years. Offenses are more spread out now which allows other point guards more room to operate and create, like Rondo was able to do in the past with less room.

Most point guards still can't really operate the same way Rondo did and still kinda does. But it doesn't matter, because there are better ways for them to play within new offenses.

Good points.  Does seem like the NBA has passed Rondo by a little bit.

I wonder what kind of player he might have become if he didn't spend his formative years playing in that halfcourt system, thriving by setting up three top shelf scorers.

[kozlodoev]

I think I saw he was at 30% after the first few games of the season, I imagine it's dipped below that by now.

He shot .350 or something last season in Dallas, but frankly I think this was lightning in a bottle. Not sustainable.

[tankcity!]

I attribute much of Rondo's relative low value/ineffectiveness to the way the NBA has changed over the last 4-5 years. Offenses are more spread out now which allows other point guards more room to operate and create, like Rondo was able to do in the past with less room.

Most point guards still can't really operate the same way Rondo did and still kinda does. But it doesn't matter, because there are better ways for them to play within new offenses.

This

[Big333223]

I attribute much of Rondo's relative low value/ineffectiveness to the way the NBA has changed over the last 4-5 years. Offenses are more spread out now which allows other point guards more room to operate and create, like Rondo was able to do in the past with less room.

Most point guards still can't really operate the same way Rondo did and still kinda does. But it doesn't matter, because there are better ways for them to play within new offenses.

The more 3's the NBA shoots, the more out of place Rondo looks since he doesn't have that shot but, at the same time, more bigs being encouraged to shoot from outside should give Rondo more room to get to the rim. Someone with his speed and handle should be able to get to the rim and used to regularly.

I maintain that his biggest problem is his terrible FT shooting. If he were a better FT shooter, he could be getting to the basket every time, creating contact, and getting easy points at the rim or at the line. But if teams aren't afraid to foul him near the rim, it makes it much harder to keep a defense honest and creates a situation where smart teams will play 5-on-4 defense while Rondo is out there.

[crimson_stallion]

Yeah. I agree regarding free throws.

Early in his career Rondo was a beast at getting to the basket and to the line, as can be seen from his early career free throw rates:

06-07: 40.9%
07-08: 24.5%
08-09: 35.3%
09-10: 31.2%

From the  2010-11 season onwards he's only had a free throw rate of >20% once in six seasons.

His percentage of field goals attempted around the basket have (not surprisingly) also dropped off at a similar rage.

06-07: 48.2%
07-08: 43.3%
08-09: 55.7%
09-10: 50.1%

From 12-13 onwards only around 1/3 of his field goal attempts have been from inside 3 feet.  By comparison about 30% of his shots have been coming on long two's (> 16 ft).

He;s actually still finishing well around the basket (he shot 63% inside 3" last year, and is shooting 83% on those shots so far this year) but he's just not taking enough of them.

I think his lack of a three point shot really hurts him here, because opposing teams have that tendency to just sag off him and guard against the drive, and so it kinda forces him to either:

a) Pass to a teammate
b) Drive in to the defense for a difficult, contested shot
c) Settle for the long two / three

If he had at least a respectable three point shot then he would probably find it easier to get to the basket. 

But alas, it is what it is. 

[BDeCosta26]

I attribute much of Rondo's relative low value/ineffectiveness to the way the NBA has changed over the last 4-5 years. Offenses are more spread out now which allows other point guards more room to operate and create, like Rondo was able to do in the past with less room.

Most point guards still can't really operate the same way Rondo did and still kinda does. But it doesn't matter, because there are better ways for them to play within new offenses.

The more 3's the NBA shoots, the more out of place Rondo looks since he doesn't have that shot but, at the same time, more bigs being encouraged to shoot from outside should give Rondo more room to get to the rim. Someone with his speed and handle should be able to get to the rim and used to regularly.

I maintain that his biggest problem is his terrible FT shooting. If he were a better FT shooter, he could be getting to the basket every time, creating contact, and getting easy points at the rim or at the line. But if teams aren't afraid to foul him near the rim, it makes it much harder to keep a defense honest and creates a situation where smart teams will play 5-on-4 defense while Rondo is out there.

I second that. His poor FT shooting has truly limited him from taking on any kind of lead role in an offense, and combined with his attitude/non-existent outside shot it's what stopped him from being the next "star" for the C's.

Any good defensive team can just keep Rondo down by fouling him hard at the rim. Makes it so he can't get on a roll and stagnates his teams offense, which makes Rondo not try to take it to the hoop. If he was better at the line, teams wouldn't be able to foul him hard every time he comes in to force him to the line.

It's rare for a guard to be SO bad at FT's that teams actively choose to foul him every time he comes within a few feet of the hoop pretty much no matter what. There's a skill for bigs towards knowing when you should go hard after a guy defensively and when it's better to give them the basket because the likelihood of a guy making both the FT's anyway and it costing you one of your fouls is too high to waste a foul on. Rondo's FT shooting is so bad that this isn't even a concern, because he has like a 35% chance of making one, never mind two. It really hurts what should he his greatest offensive strength.

[crimson_stallion]

This is what Rondo is now, post-injury:

12 pts, 8-9 ast, 4-5 reb, 1-2 stl, 40% / 30% / 40%

He's not hurting their pace, though.  Sac is top 5 in pace so far.


I'm glad to see him proving he can be a useful player in the NBA, still.  Also glad the Celts didn't give him a long term contract.

You say post-injury,  I say post KG/PP.

Also, he's got ways to go to get to 30% from three.

I think I saw he was at 30% after the first few games of the season, I imagine it's dipped below that by now.

I'm in agreement with you on the post KG / PP thing.  Rondo hasn't looked particularly good since the 2012 playoffs, basically, which was the last time he was playing next to KG and PP and those guys commanded a lot of defensive attention.  I guess you could also say "post Ray Allen."

But like I said, I think he's showing he still has a place in the NBA, though I imagine he'll bounce around bad teams desperate for passing competence at point guard.  Even that is a bit of a surprise to me.  Kinda thought after the Dallas thing he'd flame out in Sacramento and then end up in China.

Still time for that, though, I suppose.

I agree - I think you might find him getting picked up in a bit of an Andre Miller role.  He was another guy who was an excellent traditional point guard, but was kinda limited by his lack of shooting range.

He's still had no trouble finding homes on NBA teams.

Though the challenge there I guess is that Andre Miller was also seen as a great veteran/locker room presence, whereas I think Rondo has kind of killed that part of his reputation.

[jpotter33]

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/sacramento-kings-demarcus-cousins-george-karl-fired-rumors-hot-seat-111015

Apparently, this Kings issue was a pretty big deal. I think it's highly likely that one of Karl or Cousins is gone by the trade deadline.

[ssspence]

I attribute much of Rondo's relative low value/ineffectiveness to the way the NBA has changed over the last 4-5 years. Offenses are more spread out now which allows other point guards more room to operate and create, like Rondo was able to do in the past with less room.

Most point guards still can't really operate the same way Rondo did and still kinda does. But it doesn't matter, because there are better ways for them to play within new offenses.

The more 3's the NBA shoots, the more out of place Rondo looks since he doesn't have that shot but, at the same time, more bigs being encouraged to shoot from outside should give Rondo more room to get to the rim. Someone with his speed and handle should be able to get to the rim and used to regularly.

I maintain that his biggest problem is his terrible FT shooting. If he were a better FT shooter, he could be getting to the basket every time, creating contact, and getting easy points at the rim or at the line. But if teams aren't afraid to foul him near the rim, it makes it much harder to keep a defense honest and creates a situation where smart teams will play 5-on-4 defense while Rondo is out there.

I second that. His poor FT shooting has truly limited him from taking on any kind of lead role in an offense, and combined with his attitude/non-existent outside shot it's what stopped him from being the next "star" for the C's.

Any good defensive team can just keep Rondo down by fouling him hard at the rim. Makes it so he can't get on a roll and stagnates his teams offense, which makes Rondo not try to take it to the hoop. If he was better at the line, teams wouldn't be able to foul him hard every time he comes in to force him to the line.

It's rare for a guard to be SO bad at FT's that teams actively choose to foul him every time he comes within a few feet of the hoop pretty much no matter what. There's a skill for bigs towards knowing when you should go hard after a guy defensively and when it's better to give them the basket because the likelihood of a guy making both the FT's anyway and it costing you one of your fouls is too high to waste a foul on. Rondo's FT shooting is so bad that this isn't even a concern, because he has like a 35% chance of making one, never mind two. It really hurts what should he his greatest offensive strength.

But can Rondo handle that type of role, or will he continue to be a distraction to his team if he can't have a very high time of possession and play the way he feels like? Like this offseason, I suspect most teams would rather forego the possibility of the latter.

[ssspence]

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/sacramento-kings-demarcus-cousins-george-karl-fired-rumors-hot-seat-111015

Apparently, this Kings issue was a pretty big deal. I think it's highly likely that one of Karl or Cousins is gone by the trade deadline.

Article suggest nothing of their interest in moving Cousins. Nor should they. George Karl is not exactly a hot commodity -- you ditch him and keep your All-Star center.