Kobe says Lakers gave up too much for Pau Gasol

[davemonsterband]

HAHAHA, this trade is the bane of my existence. The Lakers gave up WAY too much for Gasol. Roy, I know you adamantly (from what I remember) wanted Gasol back in the day, pre KG, and you thought it would set us to a higher status, and I respect your knowledge of the game a heck of a lot more than my own, but from day one I thought he was a flake. I have yet to see a European big man that can lead a team to anything. He's still a flake, he's a product of the triangle offense and he has no grit. He lays the ball in and shoots baby j's on the opposite side of handoffs from the second best player of all time. Whoopdy-do.

Yes, he fits into their system, but lots of players could. He has no right getting an ounce of the respect he gets for doing what he does in LA and he's extremely overrated. Since 2004 he's played 56, 80, 59 and 66 games respectively. He generally avg's 19/8.5/3.2 and he's making around 15.5, 16.5 and 17.5 mil over the next three seasons.

Other players around that price range within 2 mil per on either side of 16 mil are: LBJ, Melo, D Wade, Bosh, Arenas, Ben Wallace, Odom, Randolph, Amare, Yao, AK-47, Bibby, Redd, Lewis, Ray-Ray, Marion, Truth and Dirk. Out of those guys, to me, AK-47 is the only guy that's a bigger waste of money. Ben Wallace and Bibby are old and on the decline so their downfall is acceptable. Gasol's a Euroflake and he'll never lead a team to anything. Going into last season I was boasting the same thing about Steve Nash, a team needs to be one of the top 5 defensive teams in the league to win a championship, period, go ahead, prove me wrong, because I've gone through it at length and there are no examples contradictory to that fact as far as I can tell, or VERY close to it, aside from the 2000 or so Lakers and I'm going back all the way to the pre Bad Boys era in saying that. The Lakers don't make the cut and last season's Western Conference was the weakest PLAYOFF capable Western Conference is a very long time. I could give a darn about their regular season records, playoff wise, the C's will never have an easier foe in the Finals than they did last season. The Lakers' road was Denver (no d), Utah (no D), SA (decimated and done) then the C's. The C's beat Cle and Det, both of which are far more respectable teams than the Lakers had to go through. Going into the finals I was more sure of winning that series than I was against the Hawks. They're a Western Conference joke.

Yeah, lots of people may say SA was a massive team to beat but come playoff time last year we all knew, for the very first time, that they were done, and they're done for good. This season will be chalk full of more talented and better defensive Western Conference teams and the Lakers' window is closed, and in that, for winning right now, Paul Gasol is a horrendous waste of money. Getting to the finals is great but they cannot win a championship based on history since the Michael Jordan era, 2 first round draft picks are worth a heck of a lot more than another European player that doesn't equate to rings. ANY large player with soft hands in that system could do what Gasol does and for a heck of a lot less money. Go get Bargniani for nothing, get Z, Kaman, anyone, anyone who plays no defense, rebounds below avg for his size, has no handles, go get him instead.

Should we be praising Mitch for getting rid of Kwame's contract? His contract's expired, if the Lakers were to pick up Gasol for 15-18 mil per year right now I'd laugh, I'd love it and I'd laugh. I'd find that as laughable as what the Raptors did in giving up their only point guard that has a prayer in guarding Rondo for Jermaine O'neal. Generally, I don't write on Celticsblog very much anymore because I'm tired of the constant counterpoint that exists from someone for every point that is to be made, what I'm talking about is finite and there are so many examples to back up this claim based on what happens every single season that I don't really see the point in wasting my time trying to bring this to light but there's always some blind person out there that will pick the Phoenix Suns to win the championship, just like there's always someone out there to say getting Pau is a good thing. Regardless, I want to say it once because just like last season my point will be proven yet again, if you don't have a top 5 defense you won't win a ring so anything that goes towards anything but that is a waste of money from the standpoint of winning a championship. Every single season I'll be proven right in that statement and everything in between won't mean a darn thing.

My power rankings for a CHAMPIONSHIP for next season?

1. C's
2. New Olreans
3. Houston
4. Portland
5. Detroit
6. Cleveland
7. Miami

For the best record? Who cares?

One of those seven teams WILL win the championship, period, call me on it next summer, I'm right, again, and no other team has a prayer.

[Schupac]

My power rankings for a CHAMPIONSHIP for next season?

1. C's
2. New Olreans
3. Houston
4. Portland
5. Detroit
6. Cleveland
7. Miami

For the best record? Who cares?

One of those seven teams WILL win the championship, period, call me on it next summer, I'm right, again, and no other team has a prayer.

lol come on now... there are 30 teams in the league you're picking 7.  You need to narrow it down more to get prediction credit

[JR Giddens]

Come on the Lakers have Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and Kobe how are these guys not in that top 7!

they went 57-25 without Bynum and/or Gasol in a lot of those games!

I hate the lakers too!

[JR Giddens]

LA's center this year was a 7-fott 195 toothpick

Pau was out of his position to be fair. Andrew Bynum is their real center. He's like 7'1 and weighs 290-300

[davemonsterband]

Come on the Lakers have Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and Kobe how are these guys not in that top 7!

they went 57-25 without Bynum and/or Gasol in a lot of those games!

I hate the lakers too!

Very true, very true, but injuries fully factor into it. Healthy, Houston, period, out of the West, and I said the same thing going into last season. Realistically, with injuries, if not the C's, Houston, New Orleans, Cleveland or Miami could win a CHAMPIONSHIP, in the finals out of the west? Any team. I'm going with C's vs. Houston, but I did last year too. 2 defined superstars, other than the Pistons, are needed for a ring, and I don't think the Hornets have that, hence, C's vs. Rockets. C's Lakers, IF it happens again, same result. I'm really not trying to prove a point NOW, I'm just saying last year I took a defensive stance on this and I shouldn't have, I'm not going to this year. We can debate till we're blue in the face but Pau is a waste of money. We're starting to question what we're paying Ray and we're sitting here saying Gasol is a massive steal while making more money than he is, as a FA Pau's not a steal, for 2 draft picks I think that's a raping, let alone the other chips involved.

[Steve Weinman]

Generally, I don't write on Celticsblog very much anymore because I'm tired of the constant counterpoint that exists from someone for every point that is to be made

At the risk of hijacking the thread, what does this mean, exactly?  That seems to be the basis of discussion to me...people *exchanging* viewpoints.  What would you prefer?  While I didn't originally purport to stray so far off-topic (and we can split my comment here off from the overall 'Kobe-Gasol' thread if need be), that line caught my eye.

In that vein, while I don't dispute the importance of defense to winning championships, it's hard to take all of what you say without further scrutiny given claims along the lines of the Utah "no D" comment, when in fact the Jazz were the league's fifth best team in defensive efficiency last season.

I'd second Schupac's sentiment about the prediction as well.

-sw

[goCeltics]

are people still pretending kobe is a good team mate?

[Roy Hobbs]

The whole "Pau Gasol isn't good enough to win a championship" thing makes no sense to me.  With him in the lineup, the Lakers went 22-5 in the regular season, and 12-3 in the Western Conference playoffs.  They took the Celtics to six games, and if not for a historic comeback by the Celts, they would have pushed them to seven.

Without Pau, the Lakers don't make the Finals.  I think whatever contract they're paying him, he was worth it to L.A. last year.  Back to the original idea of this thread, the thought that garbage + Marc Gasol was overpaying is silly.  Pau is a top-tier big man (there are better players, but not all that many), and trading two draft picks, a point guard with a limited ceiling (Crittendon) and a foreign prospect who wasn't projected to be that good (Marc Gasol) is not even in the realm of fair value.

[connerhenry43]

i will never understand why the grizz did this with lots of time before the trade deadline. if it was the day of the trade deadline, and this was the best offer they got, so be it.

and we all know KG is better than pau gasol, but look at what the C's had to give up to get KG.  Al Jefferson (a stud), Ryan Gomes (a very good piece), Sebastian Telfair (seemed like a throw in, but an expiring contract, who actually played OK and got re-signed), Gerald Green (did not work out but at the time, a very talented 20 year old player), Theo Ratliff (perhaps the most valuable expiring contract in the nba, npw off their books), cash considerations, Boston's 2009 first-round draft pick (top 3 protected) and the 2009 first-round pick Minnesota had traded to Boston in the Ricky Davis-Wally Szczerbiak trade of 2006.

[Robb]

I think what he's trying to say is Marc was basically a throw in, and maybe they didn't need to use him as the throw in.  I'm not so sure Memphis perceived him as a throw in, but who knows what they were thinking.

Everything in that trade from the Lakers side was a throw-in.

Call me crazy, but I'd say that the "Marc Gasol in the Pau trade" and the "Ryan Gomes in the Garnett trade" comparison is only apt if we hadn't given up Al Jefferson, too.  The Lakers got to keep their future franchise big man while trading for their present franchise big man.

Also, not to pile on davemonsterband, but Miami as the number 7 title contender?  Sure Wade, Marion and Beasley could be really good together, but right now their best option at point guard is a toss up between Chris Quinn and Marcus Banks, and Mark Blount would be their starting center.

[cordobes]

When did Marc Gasol status become so high? He was severely underrated when the trade happened, but now he's being given more credit than he deserves.  He's never going to be half as good as Pau is. This trade was one of the best ever in the history of the NBA. They had a great chance, they were lucky to have the kind of package Memphis was looking for and they didn't miss it. Good for them. With that said, I believe Kobe was just trying to praise his teammate little brother. He's very prone to be verbally misleading, though.

[CoachBo]

Kobe working on a post-basketball career as a comedian?

This is funny stuff.

 

[davemonsterband]

Generally, I don't write on Celticsblog very much anymore because I'm tired of the constant counterpoint that exists from someone for every point that is to be made

At the risk of hijacking the thread, what does this mean, exactly?  That seems to be the basis of discussion to me...people *exchanging* viewpoints.  What would you prefer?  While I didn't originally purport to stray so far off-topic (and we can split my comment here off from the overall 'Kobe-Gasol' thread if need be), that line caught my eye.

In that vein, while I don't dispute the importance of defense to winning championships, it's hard to take all of what you say without further scrutiny given claims along the lines of the Utah "no D" comment, when in fact the Jazz were the league's fifth best team in defensive efficiency last season.

I'd second Schupac's sentiment about the prediction as well.

-sw

It means that no matter what is said someone will always say the exact opposite. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this site, I just got tired one day of there always being someone out there who will post the exact opposite of what it is one has to say. I don't yearn to go through the political process of fair play. I know that's how the site works, through discussion, and I sure as heck am not saying that should change, but for me personally there are only so many arguments and mass posters I care to hear from, and I'm generally not into the opinions of people that don't know more than I do, there are LOTS of you out there that do, but there are lots that don't as well, I see no point in wasting my time reading what I already know from those that don't. That, plus having to act politically correct out of respect to everyone, there are many great people on Celticsblog so I keep such things to myself, but it's not me, at all, and having to act that way bores the heck out of me. I don't act that way in life, having to act that way here after a while makes me feel like I'm hanging out with my mom, I love her, but she still bores me. Still, always, great site, great people, it just isn't me, no disrespect to anyone, I wish it wasn't the case, I miss learning so much about our team.

Roy, it's not Pau that worked the miracle for the Lakers going 22-5, it's ANY big man with any skill whatsoever to offset Kobe and Lamar could make that happen, especially in his role in the triangle. Of course that's impossible to prove but Pau catches the ball, pivots, shoots, he's WIDE OPEN. He deserves NO credit, the only guy that deserves credit is Kobe for allowing Pau to shoot over 58.9% for 27 games. Generally he's a 50% guy, Kobe makes him a 59% guy, he's the best player on the planet and I think that's forgotten much too often. Defensively Pau's a nightmare like he has been for his whole career, he's an average rebounder at best, he's a pretty good shot blocker at best, I don't see the massive upside in this guy that everybody else does, not for 15 plus million. Based on his recent history odds are he'll be hurt 20 games this season, Bynum was hurt, their pg's are exploitable, one magical run doesn't put them on par with the C's, not even close. Getting to the finals and pushing a team to 6 games doesn't change the fact that they didn't win, lots of teams go 6 games, the champs always prescribe to a certain formula, and that's defense. I don't want to sound like a broken record here but until there's an anomaly to that fact I take it as an absolute truth and anything contradictory to that, no matter how close to the contrary, I view as a waste of money from the standpoint of getting that ring on your finger being the paramount objective.

Okay, a 7 team prediction is rather silly, I agree with that, instead I'll put it like this, the 2009 NBA champs, just like they have been for over 2 decades, will be one of the top 3 defensive teams in the league.

[Steve Weinman]

Generally, I don't write on Celticsblog very much anymore because I'm tired of the constant counterpoint that exists from someone for every point that is to be made

At the risk of hijacking the thread, what does this mean, exactly?  That seems to be the basis of discussion to me...people *exchanging* viewpoints.  What would you prefer?  While I didn't originally purport to stray so far off-topic (and we can split my comment here off from the overall 'Kobe-Gasol' thread if need be), that line caught my eye.

In that vein, while I don't dispute the importance of defense to winning championships, it's hard to take all of what you say without further scrutiny given claims along the lines of the Utah "no D" comment, when in fact the Jazz were the league's fifth best team in defensive efficiency last season.

I'd second Schupac's sentiment about the prediction as well.

-sw

It means that no matter what is said someone will always say the exact opposite. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this site, I just got tired one day of there always being someone out there who will post the exact opposite of what it is one has to say. I don't yearn to go through the political process of fair play. I know that's how the site works, through discussion, and I sure as heck am not saying that should change, but for me personally there are only so many arguments and mass posters I care to hear from, and I'm generally not into the opinions of people that don't know more than I do, there are LOTS of you out there that do, but there are lots that don't as well, I see no point in wasting my time reading what I already know from those that don't. That, plus having to act politically correct out of respect to everyone, there are many great people on Celticsblog so I keep such things to myself, but it's not me, at all, and having to act that way bores the heck out of me. I don't act that way in life, having to act that way here after a while makes me feel like I'm hanging out with my mom, I love her, but she still bores me. Still, always, great site, great people, it just isn't me, no disrespect to anyone, I wish it wasn't the case, I miss learning so much about our team.

Roy, it's not Pau that worked the miracle for the Lakers going 22-5, it's ANY big man with any skill whatsoever to offset Kobe and Lamar could make that happen, especially in his role in the triangle. Of course that's impossible to prove but Pau catches the ball, pivots, shoots, he's WIDE OPEN. He deserves NO credit, the only guy that deserves credit is Kobe for allowing Pau to shoot over 58.9% for 27 games. Generally he's a 50% guy, Kobe makes him a 59% guy, he's the best player on the planet and I think that's forgotten much too often. Defensively Pau's a nightmare like he has been for his whole career, he's an average rebounder at best, he's a pretty good shot blocker at best, I don't see the massive upside in this guy that everybody else does, not for 15 plus million. Based on his recent history odds are he'll be hurt 20 games this season, Bynum was hurt, their pg's are exploitable, one magical run doesn't put them on par with the C's, not even close. Getting to the finals and pushing a team to 6 games doesn't change the fact that they didn't win, lots of teams go 6 games, the champs always prescribe to a certain formula, and that's defense. I don't want to sound like a broken record here but until there's an anomaly to that fact I take it as an absolute truth and anything contradictory to that, no matter how close to the contrary, I view as a waste of money from the standpoint of getting that ring on your finger being the paramount objective.

Okay, a 7 team prediction is rather silly, I agree with that, instead I'll put it like this, the 2009 NBA champs, just like they have been for over 2 decades, will be one of the top 3 defensive teams in the league.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify, dmb - much appreciated.

-sw

[Schupac]

Generally, I don't write on Celticsblog very much anymore because I'm tired of the constant counterpoint that exists from someone for every point that is to be made

At the risk of hijacking the thread, what does this mean, exactly?  That seems to be the basis of discussion to me...people *exchanging* viewpoints.  What would you prefer?  While I didn't originally purport to stray so far off-topic (and we can split my comment here off from the overall 'Kobe-Gasol' thread if need be), that line caught my eye.

In that vein, while I don't dispute the importance of defense to winning championships, it's hard to take all of what you say without further scrutiny given claims along the lines of the Utah "no D" comment, when in fact the Jazz were the league's fifth best team in defensive efficiency last season.

I'd second Schupac's sentiment about the prediction as well.

-sw

It means that no matter what is said someone will always say the exact opposite. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this site, I just got tired one day of there always being someone out there who will post the exact opposite of what it is one has to say. I don't yearn to go through the political process of fair play. I know that's how the site works, through discussion, and I sure as heck am not saying that should change, but for me personally there are only so many arguments and mass posters I care to hear from, and I'm generally not into the opinions of people that don't know more than I do, there are LOTS of you out there that do, but there are lots that don't as well, I see no point in wasting my time reading what I already know from those that don't. That, plus having to act politically correct out of respect to everyone, there are many great people on Celticsblog so I keep such things to myself, but it's not me, at all, and having to act that way bores the heck out of me. I don't act that way in life, having to act that way here after a while makes me feel like I'm hanging out with my mom, I love her, but she still bores me. Still, always, great site, great people, it just isn't me, no disrespect to anyone, I wish it wasn't the case, I miss learning so much about our team.

Roy, it's not Pau that worked the miracle for the Lakers going 22-5, it's ANY big man with any skill whatsoever to offset Kobe and Lamar could make that happen, especially in his role in the triangle. Of course that's impossible to prove but Pau catches the ball, pivots, shoots, he's WIDE OPEN. He deserves NO credit, the only guy that deserves credit is Kobe for allowing Pau to shoot over 58.9% for 27 games. Generally he's a 50% guy, Kobe makes him a 59% guy, he's the best player on the planet and I think that's forgotten much too often. Defensively Pau's a nightmare like he has been for his whole career, he's an average rebounder at best, he's a pretty good shot blocker at best, I don't see the massive upside in this guy that everybody else does, not for 15 plus million. Based on his recent history odds are he'll be hurt 20 games this season, Bynum was hurt, their pg's are exploitable, one magical run doesn't put them on par with the C's, not even close. Getting to the finals and pushing a team to 6 games doesn't change the fact that they didn't win, lots of teams go 6 games, the champs always prescribe to a certain formula, and that's defense. I don't want to sound like a broken record here but until there's an anomaly to that fact I take it as an absolute truth and anything contradictory to that, no matter how close to the contrary, I view as a waste of money from the standpoint of getting that ring on your finger being the paramount objective.

Okay, a 7 team prediction is rather silly, I agree with that, instead I'll put it like this, the 2009 NBA champs, just like they have been for over 2 decades, will be one of the top 3 defensive teams in the league.

Dave - I agree with you on the point counterpoint thing.  But I think that is something that plagues all internet forums in general... celticsblog is by far the least of any of the evils I've encountered. 

However, I would like to disagree with you on points 1, 6, 8 and 14 on the basis that....  (just kidding).

The whole "Pau Gasol isn't good enough to win a championship" thing makes no sense to me.  With him in the lineup, the Lakers went 22-5 in the regular season, and 12-3 in the Western Conference playoffs.  They took the Celtics to six games, and if not for a historic comeback by the Celts, they would have pushed them to seven.

Without Pau, the Lakers don't make the Finals.  I think whatever contract they're paying him, he was worth it to L.A. last year.  Back to the original idea of this thread, the thought that garbage + Marc Gasol was overpaying is silly.  Pau is a top-tier big man (there are better players, but not all that many), and trading two draft picks, a point guard with a limited ceiling (Crittendon) and a foreign prospect who wasn't projected to be that good (Marc Gasol) is not even in the realm of fair value.

but he's so FUNNY looking!