Author Topic: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?  (Read 7591 times)

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Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2019, 12:18:12 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Zion reminds me of Larry Johnson crossed with Bo Jackson. Like a smaller Shaq (EDIT actually shorter, he's gotta weigh more than Shaq did at 19) with more range and ball handling. If he approaches his ceiling he'll be a very special player, like MVP caliber.

That remains to be seen of course but he's the one just about every GM would take right now out of the three.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 12:40:10 PM by fairweatherfan »

Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2019, 01:07:40 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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Williamson is, potentially, a freak. Just so physically imposing. Too soon to know how that translates, and what his work ethic is, but I would say it gives him the highest ceiling.

ZW’s ceiling is essentially LeBron. Maybe better. But that’s his *ceiling*. Does he have the same drive to dominate? Can he stay healthy? Remains to be seen. But what he’s doing to college basketball is insane.

Tatum’s ceiling, I would say, is top 5 - 10 NBA player. Maybe something like Durant, more likely a hair below. I think his odds of getting close to that ceiling are better than ZW, just based on the longer track record.

I was with you till the part about his ceiling potentially being higher then Lebrons...

I think Zion is going to be a special NBA player. He is coming into the league at a time where his skill set is perfect for the style of play. I see him as a hybrid of Blake Griffin and Draymond Green.   
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Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2019, 01:11:57 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I'm saying it's close. Both guys have really impressed me in their stints at Duke.

Williamson projects as a Blake Griffin type, and I've heard Barrett draw comparisons to guys like Grant Hill/TMac.

I don't see any way both those guys don't have stellar careers, but it's hard to imagine either of them coming into the league and playing like Tatum did in the 18' playoffs.

I've only seen 3 or 4 Duke games this year, so i'm hoping a more avid bluedevils watcher can give me some more insight on the ceilings of both these guys.

they are playing on national tv tonight against north carolina if you are looking to see them some more

Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2019, 01:16:55 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Taking Tatum's NBA success out of the equation and looking at all three as College Freshman I would rank them

Zion
Barrett
Tatum

With what we know about Tatum I would rank them

Zion
Tatum
Barrett


I do not think there is a huge gap between Tatum and Zion as I feel both players can be eventually be the #1 guy on a championship team / perennial all NBA 1st team players. In 5 years I could easily see Tatum as a 25+ppg dominate scoring wing and Zion as a 20pt 10rb double double machine. I am also high on Barret but I see him more as a 2nd option type star who will still be a perennial all star but might not have the game to carry an elite team.

This is how I would rank it too. I think when people are remembering whether or not tatum was hyped coming into the draft, he has basically advanced a major skill in shooting. He shot 34% from 3 from the college line, then came in and has shot 40% from 3 across nearly 2 seasons in the NBA. If Tatum had shot 43% from 3 in college or whatever people think is the equivalent of a guy that shoots 40% from NBA line, he would probably have been a lot more hyped.

Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2019, 01:17:07 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Williamson is, potentially, a freak. Just so physically imposing. Too soon to know how that translates, and what his work ethic is, but I would say it gives him the highest ceiling.

ZW’s ceiling is essentially LeBron. Maybe better. But that’s his *ceiling*. Does he have the same drive to dominate? Can he stay healthy? Remains to be seen. But what he’s doing to college basketball is insane.

Tatum’s ceiling, I would say, is top 5 - 10 NBA player. Maybe something like Durant, more likely a hair below. I think his odds of getting close to that ceiling are better than ZW, just based on the longer track record.

I was with you till the part about his ceiling potentially being higher then Lebrons...

I think Zion is going to be a special NBA player. He is coming into the league at a time where his skill set is perfect for the style of play. I see him as a hybrid of Blake Griffin and Draymond Green.

Yeah the hype around Zion has been ginormous, it's also amazing that people compare Zion to LeBron, despite other than speed, vertical, height, and strength/body, they play literally nothing alike. If Zion had even half of what had offensively, (LeBron's passing, handling, and penchant to take tough shots/clutch,) yeah I could see it. But he's a player who I do believe can end up becoming, as you said, Blake Griffin/Green hybrid.
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Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2019, 01:55:50 PM »

Offline gift

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I wouldn't say Barrett is a better prospect, but people always start to fall in love with prospects who aren't even in the league yet, so who knows? Once drafted he'll lose 10% of his value and then halfway through Barrett's first season he'll lose 30% of his pre-draft value. He has major flaws that will prevent him from being a star prospect if not addressed early.
What are those flaws?

Handle, range, shooting, shot selection, weak right hand. Those are very limiting when talking about a star prospect. I just don't think he's dominant enough relative to NBA talent in his areas of strength to not have to address almost all of those weaknesses early on in his career. I don't expect him to solve his shooting problems in his rookie year, so his value will go down until he improves.

Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2019, 02:13:16 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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How often are you sure a player is going to be really good based on what they do in college and then they enter the league and play as well as Jayson Tatum has to start his career?

It's usually like 1 or 2 guys every couple of years, right?  Usually that means somebody that everybody knows will be the #1 pick years in advance.

So easy to look at college prospects and assume they'll work out like the best comparison you can think of, whereas a guy who's already been in the league a year and a half is a relatively known quantity.


I wouldn't give up Tatum for anything less than the type of prospect that comes along once every 5-10 years, not your run of the mill top 5 draft prospect at Duke or Kentucky.
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Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2019, 02:16:05 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Zion reminds me of Larry Johnson crossed with Bo Jackson. Like a smaller Shaq (EDIT actually shorter, he's gotta weigh more than Shaq did at 19) with more range and ball handling. If he approaches his ceiling he'll be a very special player, like MVP caliber.

That remains to be seen of course but he's the one just about every GM would take right now out of the three.


The question you have to ask about every elite prospect coming into the league now is: "Will he create three point shots for himself?  Will he create three point shots for others?"

It is very difficult to imagine a player for whom the answer to those questions is "No" becoming an MVP type player.
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Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2019, 02:25:37 PM »

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I wouldn't say Barrett is a better prospect, but people always start to fall in love with prospects who aren't even in the league yet, so who knows? Once drafted he'll lose 10% of his value and then halfway through Barrett's first season he'll lose 30% of his pre-draft value. He has major flaws that will prevent him from being a star prospect if not addressed early.
What are those flaws?

Handle, range, shooting, shot selection, weak right hand. Those are very limiting when talking about a star prospect. I just don't think he's dominant enough relative to NBA talent in his areas of strength to not have to address almost all of those weaknesses early on in his career. I don't expect him to solve his shooting problems in his rookie year, so his value will go down until he improves.

I like his ball-handling.

The shot selection issues look normal to me for a college age wing.

His outside shooting has been disappointing but it is passable and there is plenty of time for improvement.

Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2019, 02:27:03 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Zion is

Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2019, 03:13:36 PM »

Offline Moranis

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How often are you sure a player is going to be really good based on what they do in college and then they enter the league and play as well as Jayson Tatum has to start his career?

It's usually like 1 or 2 guys every couple of years, right?  Usually that means somebody that everybody knows will be the #1 pick years in advance.

So easy to look at college prospects and assume they'll work out like the best comparison you can think of, whereas a guy who's already been in the league a year and a half is a relatively known quantity.


I wouldn't give up Tatum for anything less than the type of prospect that comes along once every 5-10 years, not your run of the mill top 5 draft prospect at Duke or Kentucky.
Tatum is the best prospect from his class (though Fox and Collins have significantly closed that gap this year and Mitchell is still a better player and may always be), but the draft class on either side of his each have at least 1 guy that is a better prospect so it seems like a strange line to draw in the sand. 
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Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2019, 03:33:27 PM »

Offline td450

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Zion reminds me of Larry Johnson crossed with Bo Jackson. Like a smaller Shaq (EDIT actually shorter, he's gotta weigh more than Shaq did at 19) with more range and ball handling. If he approaches his ceiling he'll be a very special player, like MVP caliber.

That remains to be seen of course but he's the one just about every GM would take right now out of the three.


The question you have to ask about every elite prospect coming into the league now is: "Will he create three point shots for himself?  Will he create three point shots for others?"

It is very difficult to imagine a player for whom the answer to those questions is "No" becoming an MVP type player.

Zion is 18. He is shooting over 68% from the field. He's a very capable passer. He is also showing signs of being a special defender. I'm not sure Terry Rozier is any faster than he is.

I see no reason why he can't do a lot of the things we are seeing from Giannis right now, and Giannis is the best player in the NBA, with no 3 point shot whatsoever.


Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2019, 03:54:55 PM »

Offline bknova

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Zion definitely is.  I have him as a Shawn Kemp floor and a hyper athletic Charles Barkley ceiling.  I'll take that guy anytime, anyday.

I don't know much about Barrett so I'll abstain from that comparison.

Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2019, 04:11:01 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Zion reminds me of Larry Johnson crossed with Bo Jackson. Like a smaller Shaq (EDIT actually shorter, he's gotta weigh more than Shaq did at 19) with more range and ball handling. If he approaches his ceiling he'll be a very special player, like MVP caliber.

That remains to be seen of course but he's the one just about every GM would take right now out of the three.


The question you have to ask about every elite prospect coming into the league now is: "Will he create three point shots for himself?  Will he create three point shots for others?"

It is very difficult to imagine a player for whom the answer to those questions is "No" becoming an MVP type player.

Not that difficult as we have one of those guys right now in Giannis. Not saying Zion would become Giannis but it's fair to say he's one of the very few recent prospects who's as physically talented as him.

Re: Are Barrett and Williamson better prospects than Tatum?
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2019, 04:42:33 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Williamson is, potentially, a freak. Just so physically imposing. Too soon to know how that translates, and what his work ethic is, but I would say it gives him the highest ceiling.

ZW’s ceiling is essentially LeBron. Maybe better. But that’s his *ceiling*. Does he have the same drive to dominate? Can he stay healthy? Remains to be seen. But what he’s doing to college basketball is insane.

Tatum’s ceiling, I would say, is top 5 - 10 NBA player. Maybe something like Durant, more likely a hair below. I think his odds of getting close to that ceiling are better than ZW, just based on the longer track record.

I was with you till the part about his ceiling potentially being higher then Lebrons...

I think Zion is going to be a special NBA player. He is coming into the league at a time where his skill set is perfect for the style of play. I see him as a hybrid of Blake Griffin and Draymond Green.

Yeah the hype around Zion has been ginormous, it's also amazing that people compare Zion to LeBron, despite other than speed, vertical, height, and strength/body, they play literally nothing alike. If Zion had even half of what had offensively, (LeBron's passing, handling, and penchant to take tough shots/clutch,) yeah I could see it. But he's a player who I do believe can end up becoming, as you said, Blake Griffin/Green hybrid.

I agree that the hype around Zion has been incredible. And I resisted for a long time – I am allergic to highlight reels that show players making uncontested dunks or dominating inferior competition in high school. Who cares about that stuff? There are 100 guys in the NBA who could do that.

I am coming around, though. It’s true he has not shot it well from the outside, the biggest hole in his game. But don’t forget, LeBron was a pretty lousy three point shooter when he entered the league (.290 his first NBA season.) I think ZW will improve.

I also think you are underestimating his abilities in other phases of offense. He has a solid handle and ridiculous shiftiness for a player his size, then explodes to the rim in a way few defenders can handle. Those who watch more than I do describe him as a very good player in the pick and roll, and wonder what he could do if his coach used him more in that role.

I remember what LeBron’s open court performance used to look like when he came into the league. Those drives to the rim with overwhelming physical force and enough agility to avoid fouling. The comparison is obvious, and it is essentially without peer. Draymond does not hold a candle.

Big picture ZW has been ridiculous in his efficiency and production.  PER of 42.3. That isn’t a typo. It’s just (literally) unheard of.  His TS% is .705. In under 30 minutes, he puts up 22.4 ppg on 12.8 shots, to go with 9.3 rpg, 2.3 assists, 2.3 steals. 

How will that translate? Nobody knows. Maybe he’s benefiting from the quality of his teammates, maybe they’re holding him down. Going back to the LBJ comp again, I think Zion also starts as a wing and if he develops to his ceiling he maxes out by becoming a point forward.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 05:09:38 PM by Sophomore »