2013 CB Historical Draft: Team Rosters

[ronaldo943]

A difference of opinion really shouldn't be labeled with BIAS and its negative conotations.

It really amps up the hosility of something that is supposed to be fun.

But that is how I see it.

I've monitored this blog since 06-07...didn't join it until Oct 09.

When ALL you see is one negative "opinion" of ur team, then I think most intelligent people will believe something's amiss.

As I've said before - I've ALWAYS drafted the best available Big in these Historical Drafts. One year it was Hakeem, KG in another, Kareem in one, and even went with KG on SS&R's draft a few yrs ago.

I wasn't going to deviate from that this year, no matter who was available. To me, the Center spot is the most important position in the game, regardless of what LeBron, Magic, Larry, etc - do.

For me, I built around Walton. Would do it again if I had to. Only one person in this thing had anything positive to say about that choice, maybe two.

Just calling it as I see it.

Its not being bias and the only thing i dont get is how you keep bringing up how Walton holded his own against Kareem in 77-78 its like me bringing up how Kareem dominated Walton in 75-76 where he scored 50 to Walton's 7 or 48 to 12 or 39 to 11. Most people didnt say anything positive because you chose Bill over Magic you are probably 1 in 1,000 who would have done that

And if you've paid attention to any of my posts here you would see why I chose Bill Walton.....

Once again, in these Historical Drafts I've ALWAYS chosen a Big Man...the best one available in my eyes.

Some people are bent out of shape because I did what I've always done?

I don't change like the weather....I've always preferred quality Big Men over anything else....that is JUST ME.

As soon as people get over that, then we can move on?

Next Historical Draft I will chose a Big for my first pick once again.

i just don't see how you think your team is an actual contender dont get me wrong it's a great team but you chose Walton who is injured 20% of the time and in this league that is not a good thing especially since all teams are good

[bdm860]

Philadelphia 76ers – All around solid team, and championship contender.  Best front court is the league?  But offset by the subpar backcourt, as I don’t like Aguirre (or Theus) at the 2.  I think Philly should have gone for fit here, instead of more firepower.

I have 1 of only 4 Hall of Fame PG's and the backup has the highest assist total of any player in the game.  So it seems you criticism is really of my SG's which you mentioned so I will give you a little background on my thought process of Aguirre and Theus. 

In this setting where there are pretty much no all time great SG's (i.e. no Jordan, no Bryant, no West, no Drexler, no Miller, etc.) you didn't need to have any particular skill set to succeed.  I knew that going in so I left that starting position for last intentionally in my draft (that isn't to say I didn't consider SG's earlier, but I wasn't going to reach to fill that position like I would have elsewhere).  I also knew that because of that, I could use a smaller SF, like Aguirre, in the position and be fine and against teams with quicker SG's then I have Theus to match-up with them.  That is also why I choose the year I did for Aguirre.  It was his best three point shooting season of his career (until the last two long past his prime) and he also played some SG that season and was generally quick enough to play that position (as well as back-up Dr. J). 

Both Aguirre and Theus fit my team's general mantra of efficient scoring and overall well rounded skill sets.  They are both good rebounders, get some steals, excellent passers (especially in Theus' case), get to the line a lot (and hit the foul shots), and generally efficient scorers by hitting near 50% from the field (and while Aguirre's 35.3% from long range doesn't look like a lot by today's standards he actually finished 19th in the league that year).

I personally think you’re overrating Murphy because he’s in the HOF.  When you’re just picking an individual season, the HOF doesn’t really matter as much.

Your HOFer wasn’t an All-Star, wasn’t All-NBA, wasn’t All-Defensive, couldn’t even lead his team to the playoffs in the year you picked for him.  When you put him on a playoff team he never averaged more than 4.9 assists (though did up it a little in the playoffs went it counts).  A low percentage of his teams overall assists, then when I see your team I think with so many scorers you only have an average distributor.  Not sure how well the '76 version of him would lead your high powered offense.  Though I imagine the counter is you have a lot of great passers on your team, I don't know if I see outstanding ball distribution here.

Not saying he’s not a good player, but I think you’re putting too much emphasis on his HOF plaque.  Actually looking at his career, I’m actually kind of surprised he’s even in the HOF.  Looks pretty lacking in career achievements.

As for Theus and Aguirre, just not enough balls to go around for them, in addition to Erving, Haywood, and Lanier (who I imagine are above them in the pecking order).  I personally really doubt Theus ability to effectively accept a largely reduced role.  Can’t pinpoint anything concrete, but I believe I’ve read a few stories about Theus being all for himself, can’t confirm it though.

So in summary, Murphy doesn't blow me away, and I still don't think either Aguirre or Theus are good fits as your SG.  But we'll probably never agree on that, as I think we have very different philosophy's of what it takes to be successful in this leagues.  Championship contender nonetheless.

[nickagneta]

Philadelphia 76ers – All around solid team, and championship contender.  Best front court is the league?  But offset by the subpar backcourt, as I don’t like Aguirre (or Theus) at the 2.  I think Philly should have gone for fit here, instead of more firepower.

I have 1 of only 4 Hall of Fame PG's and the backup has the highest assist total of any player in the game.  So it seems you criticism is really of my SG's which you mentioned so I will give you a little background on my thought process of Aguirre and Theus. 

In this setting where there are pretty much no all time great SG's (i.e. no Jordan, no Bryant, no West, no Drexler, no Miller, etc.) you didn't need to have any particular skill set to succeed.  I knew that going in so I left that starting position for last intentionally in my draft (that isn't to say I didn't consider SG's earlier, but I wasn't going to reach to fill that position like I would have elsewhere).  I also knew that because of that, I could use a smaller SF, like Aguirre, in the position and be fine and against teams with quicker SG's then I have Theus to match-up with them.  That is also why I choose the year I did for Aguirre.  It was his best three point shooting season of his career (until the last two long past his prime) and he also played some SG that season and was generally quick enough to play that position (as well as back-up Dr. J). 

Both Aguirre and Theus fit my team's general mantra of efficient scoring and overall well rounded skill sets.  They are both good rebounders, get some steals, excellent passers (especially in Theus' case), get to the line a lot (and hit the foul shots), and generally efficient scorers by hitting near 50% from the field (and while Aguirre's 35.3% from long range doesn't look like a lot by today's standards he actually finished 19th in the league that year).

I personally think you’re overrating Murphy because he’s in the HOF.  When you’re just picking an individual season, the HOF doesn’t really matter as much.

Your HOFer wasn’t an All-Star, wasn’t All-NBA, wasn’t All-Defensive, couldn’t even lead his team to the playoffs in the year you picked for him.  When you put him on a playoff team he never averaged more than 4.9 assists (though did up it a little in the playoffs went it counts).  A low percentage of his teams overall assists, then when I see your team I think with so many scorers you only have an average distributor.  Not sure how well the '76 version of him would lead your high powered offense.  Though I imagine the counter is you have a lot of great passers on your team, I don't know if I see outstanding ball distribution here.

Not saying he’s not a good player, but I think you’re putting too much emphasis on his HOF plaque.  Actually looking at his career, I’m actually kind of surprised he’s even in the HOF.  Looks pretty lacking in career achievements.

As for Theus and Aguirre, just not enough balls to go around for them, in addition to Erving, Haywood, and Lanier (who I imagine are above them in the pecking order).  I personally really doubt Theus ability to effectively accept a largely reduced role.  Can’t pinpoint anything concrete, but I believe I’ve read a few stories about Theus being all for himself, can’t confirm it though.

So in summary, Murphy doesn't blow me away, and I still don't think either Aguirre or Theus are good fits as your SG.  But we'll probably never agree on that, as I think we have very different philosophy's of what it takes to be successful in this leagues.  Championship contender nonetheless.

This pretty much matches my opinion of Philly. I saw Murphy play. I saw JoJo White play. I am incredulous that Murphy is in the Hall and JoJo isn't. If Murphy was 6'1" I am positive his achievements are looked upon by the people who voted him I to the Hall as well as he was to get in.

[Roy H.]

So where and when a team got a player, to me, matters little. What matters is the team he has.

Agreed.  There were bad individual picks, but I didn't factor that into judging the squads. 

[Roy H.]

My preliminary ballot:

Best Overall:

1.  Philadelphia 76ers
2.  Kansas City Kings
3.  New York Knicks
4.  Washington Bullets
5.  Milwaukee Bucks

Best Defensive:
 
1.  LA Lakers
2.  Denver Nuggets
3.  Boston Celtics
4.  Seattle Supersonics
5.  Atlanta Hawks

Best Offensive:

1. New York Knicks
2. Kansas City Kings
3. Philadelphia 76ers
4. San Diego Clippers
5. Atlanta Hawks

[wdleehi]

I really like that Atlanta team.

I think they are a nightmare to play against. So dominant on the backboards. They will create a huge number of extra possessions. Tough defensive team. Very physical. Overwhelming in the paint with Cowens and Parish. Terrific starting frontcourt (Marques Johnson and Tom Chambers along with the two bigs). Good perimeter play. Excellent depth. So many players contributing and putting pressure on their opponent.

One of the toughest teams to matchup against. Just relentless. I think they are one of the top teams. They put so much pressure on you.

So glad someone understands the team.

[Roy H.]

I really like that Atlanta team.

I think they are a nightmare to play against. So dominant on the backboards. They will create a huge number of extra possessions. Tough defensive team. Very physical. Overwhelming in the paint with Cowens and Parish. Terrific starting frontcourt (Marques Johnson and Tom Chambers along with the two bigs). Good perimeter play. Excellent depth. So many players contributing and putting pressure on their opponent.

One of the toughest teams to matchup against. Just relentless. I think they are one of the top teams. They put so much pressure on you.

So glad someone understands the team.

Ha.  As noted above, yours was the team that was top-5 in both offense and defense, and somehow didn't make best overall.  Chalk it up to arbitrariness.

[wdleehi]

My preliminary ballot:

Best Overall:

1.  Philadelphia 76ers
2.  Kansas City Kings
3.  New York Knicks
4.  Washington Bullets
5.  Milwaukee Bucks

Best Defensive:
 
1.  LA Lakers
2.  Denver Nuggets
3.  Boston Celtics
4.  Seattle Supersonics
5.  Atlanta Hawks

Best Offensive:

1. New York Knicks
2. Kansas City Kings
3. Philadelphia 76ers
4. San Diego Clippers
5. Atlanta Hawks

[Yoki_IsTheName]

My preliminary ballot:

Best Overall:

1.  Philadelphia 76ers
2.  Kansas City Kings
3.  New York Knicks
4.  Washington Bullets
5.  Milwaukee Bucks

Best Defensive:
 
1.  LA Lakers
2.  Denver Nuggets
3.  Boston Celtics
4.  Seattle Supersonics
5.  Atlanta Hawks

Best Offensive:

1. New York Knicks
2. Kansas City Kings
3. Philadelphia 76ers
4. San Diego Clippers
5. Atlanta Hawks

Where do you have the Lakers overall Sir Roy? And if you don't mind me asking, why?

I'm confident they are certainly top 5.

[Roy H.]

Where do you have the Lakers overall Sir Roy? And if you don't mind me asking, why?

I'm confident they are certainly top 5.

I love Kareem, obviously.  I like Moncrief a lot, but I think you're putting a little too much pressure on him.

The rest of the team, I just don't like as much as some other teams.  It's hard for me to get behind any team that starts M.L. Carr, despite what any statistics say.  I think that early on, you focused too much on defense, to the detriment of putting a well-rounded team around Kareem.  Your late drafting made up for that, but overall, I just didn't see your team as top-5.

I'd have you behind the five squads I listed plus Atlanta overall.  After that, it's kind of a hodge podge.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Where do you have the Lakers overall Sir Roy? And if you don't mind me asking, why?

I'm confident they are certainly top 5.

I love Kareem, obviously.  I like Moncrief a lot, but I think you're putting a little too much pressure on him.

The rest of the team, I just don't like as much as some other teams.  It's hard for me to get behind any team that starts M.L. Carr, despite what any statistics say.  I think that early on, you focused too much on defense, to the detriment of putting a well-rounded team around Kareem.  Your late drafting made up for that, but overall, I just didn't see your team as top-5.

I'd have you behind the five squads I listed plus Atlanta overall.  After that, it's kind of a hodge podge.

Fair enough.

But, say, if Mike Mitchell is starting over M.L Carr, would that make a difference? Or Tripucka?

[Roy H.]

Where do you have the Lakers overall Sir Roy? And if you don't mind me asking, why?

I'm confident they are certainly top 5.

I love Kareem, obviously.  I like Moncrief a lot, but I think you're putting a little too much pressure on him.

The rest of the team, I just don't like as much as some other teams.  It's hard for me to get behind any team that starts M.L. Carr, despite what any statistics say.  I think that early on, you focused too much on defense, to the detriment of putting a well-rounded team around Kareem.  Your late drafting made up for that, but overall, I just didn't see your team as top-5.

I'd have you behind the five squads I listed plus Atlanta overall.  After that, it's kind of a hodge podge.

Fair enough.

But, say, if Mike Mitchell is starting over M.L Carr, would that make a difference? Or Tripucka?

It would make a small difference.  M.L. doesn't belong in your rotation, let alone as a starter.  I'd probably start Tripucka.  (Incidentally, I'm not sure that 1983 Tripucka is the way to go.  He had a great statistical year, but only played in 58 games, and didn't make the playoffs.)

[nickagneta]

Where do you have the Lakers overall Sir Roy? And if you don't mind me asking, why?

I'm confident they are certainly top 5.

I love Kareem, obviously.  I like Moncrief a lot, but I think you're putting a little too much pressure on him.

The rest of the team, I just don't like as much as some other teams.  It's hard for me to get behind any team that starts M.L. Carr, despite what any statistics say.  I think that early on, you focused too much on defense, to the detriment of putting a well-rounded team around Kareem.  Your late drafting made up for that, but overall, I just didn't see your team as top-5.

I'd have you behind the five squads I listed plus Atlanta overall.  After that, it's kind of a hodge podge.

Fair enough.

But, say, if Mike Mitchell is starting over M.L Carr, would that make a difference? Or Tripucka?

It would make a small difference.  M.L. doesn't belong in your rotation, let alone as a starter.  I'd probably start Tripucka.  (Incidentally, I'm not sure that 1983 Tripucka is the way to go.  He had a great statistical year, but only played in 58 games, and didn't make the playoffs.)

Gotta say, I hate Carr in that lineup as well. I think I have stated as such and even advised to start both Cliff Robinson and Mike Mitchell. Doing so, I believe makes an even better offensive team and a better defensive team. It also allows for Tripuka to come in as the instant offense guy when you sit Kareem or when he is cold.

Carr is a end of bench guy who, in Detroit, was a guy who hung great numbers on an awful team. A bunch of those type of guys litter the benches of teams in this draft. Very few are starting on teams and none, except Carr, are starting that weren't superstars in their days.

[nickagneta]

BTW, I have a preliminary ballot and two firm ballots in hand.

I need ballots from Redz and freshinthehouse and will be getting either an updated final ballot or confirmation of one of the ballots a little later.

Just an update.

Also, please people, give bdm, faf and some of the others some TP's for their input in this even though they didn't officially participate. Really great stuff from some people.

[airbelinelli]

My preliminary ballot:

Best Overall:

1.  Philadelphia 76ers
2.  Kansas City Kings
3.  New York Knicks
4.  Washington Bullets
5.  Milwaukee Bucks

Best Defensive:
 
1.  LA Lakers
2.  Denver Nuggets
3.  Boston Celtics
4.  Seattle Supersonics
5.  Atlanta Hawks

Best Offensive:

1. New York Knicks
2. Kansas City Kings
3. Philadelphia 76ers
4. San Diego Clippers
5. Atlanta Hawks

I got on someones ballot for something!!!!
This has been really fun but I have to say my knowledge of the old NBA is quite poor. I went most of the time just based on stats which is never a good metric but think I it came together alright