Author Topic: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin  (Read 11724 times)

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Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2024, 08:13:12 PM »

Offline ozgod

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The Athletic has a comprehensive article on why the Bucks fired Griffin. I can't post the entire article here as it's behind a paywall (I have a sub but it's against CS policy) but I can post snippets of it.

Apparently this is a decision that had been coming for some time. Despite their 30-13 record, the Bucks weren't happy with how they were playing, and their ability to challenge the true contenders in the NBA.

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Why Bucks fired Adrian Griffin and why Doc Rivers could be their next head coach
Shams Charania, Sam Amick and Eric Nehm
Jan 23, 2024


The Milwaukee Bucks’ choice to fire first-year head coach Adrian Griffin on Tuesday was hardly an overnight decision.

It was borne out of months of underwhelming play with internal concerns growing about the severe decline of their once-elite defense, the flawed use of newcomer Damian Lillard alongside franchise centerpiece Giannis Antetokounmpo and a widespread fear that this group, which was widely expected to contend for a title, was likely to fall short if Milwaukee stood pat.

As far back as the In-Season Tournament in December, when the Bucks lost to the Indiana Pacers in Las Vegas and the internal skepticism grew regarding Griffin’s ability to lead, there were strong signs that a change was coming.

Doc is the current first choice, with Kenny Atkinson the fallback.

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League sources say Doc Rivers, who is an ESPN analyst after getting fired by the Philadelphia 76ers last May, began to serve as an informal consultant to Griffin at the behest of the Bucks. One month later, multiple sources briefed on the matter now indicate that Rivers is the serious leader for the now-vacant position and the preferred choice of key stakeholders.

The Bucks have started discussions with Rivers to become the new head coach of the franchise, league sources said. Warriors assistant coach Kenny Atkinson, who was a runner-up to Griffin in the Bucks’ head coaching search last year, is a candidate for the job as well if the team is unable to secure a deal with Rivers.

Losing Stotts early hurt him.

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Stotts’ decision came about for myriad reasons, but all of the underlying issues seemed to come to a head following a brief verbal argument at a shootaround in Oklahoma City on Oct. 17, 2023, first reported by The Athletic.

League sources said Stotts, who was Lillard’s coach in Portland for his first nine seasons there, and Griffin never saw eye to eye on his role and responsibilities as an assistant and the disrespect Stotts felt in that situation served as the final straw. Regardless of why Stotts headed for the exits, the notion of Griffin’s coaching staff losing its most experienced voice was an indisputable setback.

He started to lose the confidence of the players around January.

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Team sources said players began to question Griffin’s schemes on both sides of the floor and the strategy that was being laid out for them each night.

While players were willing to be patient with Griffin as he learned on the job because of the team’s vast personnel changes at the start of the season, their questions grew more significant as the team failed to show substantial growth at the season’s midway point.

According to team sources, the issues plaguing Griffin’s early tenure ranged from putting together strong schemes on both ends of the floor for the Bucks to fulfill their championship potential to successfully communicating his vision to his players for them to execute it on the floor. But the bottom line, given the high stakes of this Bucks era, the concern over Griffin’s ability became a question too big for executive leadership to withstand any longer.

Giannis was particularly upset when they gave up 122 points in a 122-116 loss to Houston, implying that Griffin didn't know what he was doing.

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Following that loss, Antetokounmpo spent seven and a half minutes bemoaning the Bucks’ defensive issues.

“Now, defensively, we have to have a plan,” he said. “What is our strategy? Are we going to give a lot of open 3s? Are we going to let them get in the paint? When they go in the post, are we going to stay with ours and play one-on-one? What is our strategy?

“Right now, we are giving everything. We are giving everything. We are giving the 3s. We are giving straight-line drives. We are letting guys play in the post and get comfortable. We’re giving offensive rebounds.”

The team wasn't impressed with Griffin's defensive schemes and inability to leverage the strengths of Giannis and Brook, two All-Defense team regulars.

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To open the season, Griffin employed an aggressive defensive game plan that looked an awful lot like the units he ran as the top assistant and defensive coordinator under Nick Nurse in Toronto. After a 130-111 loss in Toronto in the fourth game of the season though, a group of veteran players went to Griffin and told him that such an aggressive scheme was not going to fit with their personnel and suggested letting Brook Lopez, the 2023 NBA Defensive Player of the Year, go back to playing drop coverage in pick-and-rolls and remaining closer to the rim throughout defensive possessions rather than trapping or switching near the 3-point line.

Changing Lopez’s responsibilities helped the Bucks stabilize themselves defensively after a rough start to the season, but they are still struggling to consistently put together stops. To this point in the season, Griffin and his staff had not found a way to scheme around their personnel issues and properly leverage the defensive strengths of Lopez and Antetokounmpo, the five-time NBA All-Defensive Team honoree and the 2020 Defensive Player of the Year.


But it wasn't just on the defensive end that the players lost faith in him, it was also with his inability to integrate Dame into the offense, even though they are 2nd in the league offensively.

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League sources also said Lillard has spent much of this season struggling with the way the Bucks function on the offensive end. While he has remained patient with coaches and teammates, there was an inevitable pressure on Griffin from the organization to make the most of Lillard’s talent that validates the choice to part ways with Jrue Holiday, Grayson Allen and three first-round picks to land him.

Despite Lillard being one of just eight players averaging at least 25 points, six assists and four rebounds this season, he has seen his efficiency plummet. From his overall field-goal percentage (46.3 to 42.7) to this three-point proficiency (37.1 to 35.1), he’s not the marksman that he was before.


The 40 point loss to the Cavs appears to have been the final nail in Griffin's coffin.

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The embarrassing loss to the Cavs appears to have been a tipping point.

With the newest member of ownership, Jimmy Haslam, in the building, it served as a vivid reminder of the questions Griffin has struggled to answer. The Bucks, who had spent so many nights struggling to find the synergy between their dynamic duo of Lillard and Antetokounmpo, looked lost as they tried to figure out how to build an offensive attack without their franchise centerpiece.

It could have been the perfect time to let Lillard loose, for him to enjoy the kind of offensive freedom he was used to for all those years in Portland and that has been so much tougher to come by in his Bucks experience. Instead, after the Cavs jumped out to a 22-2 lead in the first quarter, Lillard finished with just 17 points on 7-of-20 shooting to go with five assists and a minus-26.


Full article at https://theathletic.com/5222650/2024/01/23/bucks-adrian-griffin-firing-why-doc-rivers/

The TLDR version: He lost the team and the locker room and that was the end of him.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2024, 08:45:02 PM »

Online blink

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I never understood why a team competing for a title would go for a young unproven coach.  Feel bad for Griffin, but that was always a weird hire to me.

The Mazzulla Precedent  :angel:

you stole my line!!! haha

I am not sure how much sarcasm is in this but the Celtics were forced to hire a coach after Udoka was embroiled in a scandal, near the end of the off season.  So they promoted an assistant.  It would have been difficult for them to conduct a formal coaching search at that point.

The Bucks hired Griffin away from Toronto at the beginning of June.  They weren't forced or rushed into it at all, after firing Budenholzer in early May.

there was some sarcasm in my statement for sure.   I know it wasn't the same situation.
But I am still frustrated that we pulled the interim tag off joe mid season last year, when it could have stayed on all year, and then you could bring in other candidates, and if Joe was best, he gets the perm job at that point.

Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2024, 09:13:23 PM »

Online tenn_smoothie

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I never understood why a team competing for a title would go for a young unproven coach.  Feel bad for Griffin, but that was always a weird hire to me.

The Mazzulla Precedent  :angel:
Boston wouldn't have hired Joe if they had done a full search.  He was an I term guy that did well enough. Not the same.

Boston had all the time and available candidates in the world after Mazzulla's first season, in which he demonstrated glaring incompetence and badly flawed basketball philosophies (first team to take 45 3's in a game wins). Sounds to me like Milwaukee actually wants to win another title.
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Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2024, 09:18:49 PM »

Online tenn_smoothie

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Further, in a good portion of their wins they’re barely beating bad teams by better play in the clutch after being outplayed or matched through most of the game, including close wins against the Cunningham-less Pistons in their last two games.

Being a Celtics fan, I thought this was normal.

That was funny.
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Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #64 on: January 23, 2024, 09:39:55 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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I never understood why a team competing for a title would go for a young unproven coach.  Feel bad for Griffin, but that was always a weird hire to me.

The Mazzulla Precedent  :angel:
Boston wouldn't have hired Joe if they had done a full search.  He was an I term guy that did well enough. Not the same.

Boston had all the time and available candidates in the world after Mazzulla's first season, in which he demonstrated glaring incompetence and badly flawed basketball philosophies (first team to take 45 3's in a game wins). Sounds to me like Milwaukee actually wants to win another title.

This is going to sound terrible but if the Celtics don’t win the title this season, re-signing Mazzulla (as head coach) could go down as one of the dumbest decisions in Celtics history.
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Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #65 on: January 23, 2024, 10:02:00 PM »

Offline ozgod

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Doc has accepted the Bucks head coaching position, according to...CNN. Somehow CNN has outscooped Woj and Shams.

NBA on TNT is running with it.


https://x.com/DimeUPROXX/status/1749990342449905770?s=20
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Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2024, 10:25:12 PM »

Offline radiohead

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That was fast. I don’t get it though. If Doc was helping out Griffin as consultant, then what can he bring in that’s new? Unless Griffin wasn’t listening to Doc’s suggestions? I’m really looking forward to see how this pans out.

Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2024, 10:27:11 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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https://x.com/bleacherreport/status/1749948830014197935?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

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Adrian Griffin told Bucks stars that "sacrifice was required" during an airing-out session after losing to Pacers in the In-Season Tournament, per @ChrisBHaynes

Griffin "lost the locker room" over time and the Bucks front office believed a change was necessary   

From everything being reported, it sure sounds like Dame isn’t happy with his role, even though he’s still a high usage player. I’m sure Giannis is also onboard, but Dame seems to be central to this issue no matter what perspective you look at it from.

I will say that ever since his trade request stuff, I’ve soured quite a bit on Dame. It feels like it’s becoming increasingly clear that “winning” wasn’t his top priority, and his role/status as the clear number one - along with getting his money, the preferable location, etc. - we’re just as important to him.

Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #68 on: January 23, 2024, 10:32:56 PM »

Offline ozgod

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https://x.com/bleacherreport/status/1749948830014197935?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

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Adrian Griffin told Bucks stars that "sacrifice was required" during an airing-out session after losing to Pacers in the In-Season Tournament, per @ChrisBHaynes

Griffin "lost the locker room" over time and the Bucks front office believed a change was necessary   

From everything being reported, it sure sounds like Dame isn’t happy with his role, even though he’s still a high usage player. I’m sure Giannis is also onboard, but Dame seems to be central to this issue no matter what perspective you look at it from.

I will say that ever since his trade request stuff, I’ve soured quite a bit on Dame. It feels like it’s becoming increasingly clear that “winning” wasn’t his top priority, and his role/status as the clear number one - along with getting his money, the preferable location, etc. - we’re just as important to him.

The Athletic report had this to say about Lillard.

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League sources also said Lillard has spent much of this season struggling with the way the Bucks function on the offensive end. While he has remained patient with coaches and teammates, there was an inevitable pressure on Griffin from the organization to make the most of Lillard’s talent that validates the choice to part ways with Jrue Holiday, Grayson Allen and three first-round picks to land him.

For the season, Lillard’s usage rate of 26.9 is not only well below his final season in Portland (a career-high mark of 33.1) but well below Antetokounmpo’s rate of 32.2, which is third in the NBA (which is down from his league-leading mark of 37.3 last season). Middleton is third on the Bucks at 23.6.

Despite Lillard being one of just eight players averaging at least 25 points, six assists and four rebounds this season, he has seen his efficiency plummet. From his overall field-goal percentage (46.3 to 42.7) to this three-point proficiency (37.1 to 35.1), he’s not the marksman that he was before.

Since Dec. 21, Lillard’s scoring has dipped to 23.5 points per game and he’s shooting just 40.4 percent from the field and 31 percent from three. Griffin’s inability to create more on-court harmony among his best players on the offensive end remained a point of contention until Griffin’s end.

By firing Budenholzer, the NBA’s winningest coach from 2018-23, the Bucks made it clear that Griffin would be expected to compete for championships. By hiring Griffin, they took a calculated risk on a coach who would inevitably need time to develop as head coach. But Griffin’s innumerable growing pains led to his demise. The embarrassing loss to the Cavs appears to have been a tipping point.

With the newest member of ownership, Jimmy Haslam, in the building, it served as a vivid reminder of the questions Griffin has struggled to answer. The Bucks, who had spent so many nights struggling to find the synergy between their dynamic duo of Lillard and Antetokounmpo, looked lost as they tried to figure out how to build an offensive attack without their franchise centerpiece.

It could have been the perfect time to let Lillard loose, for him to enjoy the kind of offensive freedom he was used to for all those years in Portland and that has been so much tougher to come by in his Bucks experience. Instead, after the Cavs jumped out to a 22-2 lead in the first quarter, Lillard finished with just 17 points on 7-of-20 shooting to go with five assists and a minus-26.

https://theathletic.com/5222650/2024/01/23/bucks-adrian-griffin-firing-why-doc-rivers/
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #69 on: January 23, 2024, 10:35:40 PM »

Offline radiohead

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Thinking about it, all this drama gifted us with Jrue. And unlike Dame, Jrue has accepted his role with Boston. What a lucky turn of events for the Celtics.

Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #70 on: January 23, 2024, 10:43:16 PM »

Offline ozgod

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Thinking about it, all this drama gifted us with Jrue. And unlike Dame, Jrue has accepted his role with Boston. What a lucky turn of events for the Celtics.

And people wanted to trade Jaylen for Dame  ;D
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Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #71 on: January 23, 2024, 10:43:36 PM »

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I liked Doc on the ESPN/ABC broadcasts.

That said, who do we think replaces him? Can they ask JVG to return? I have no clue why they let him go, idiotic move. Doris Burke is still awful
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Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #72 on: January 23, 2024, 10:57:37 PM »

Offline ozgod

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I liked Doc on the ESPN/ABC broadcasts.

That said, who do we think replaces him? Can they ask JVG to return? I have no clue why they let him go, idiotic move. Doris Burke is still awful

What's really odd is that while NBA on TNT was talking about Doc's being hired by the Bucks, and they had a chevron saying "CNN Reports Doc Rivers is the new Milwaukee Bucks coach", I can't find anything in print on the CNN website or Bleacher Report (which is owned by CNN), confirming this. In fact, Bleacher Report had this from some website called HoopCentral, reported by someone named Bill Reiter:


https://x.com/TheHoopCentral/status/1750002318081400866?s=20

Maybe President Bonespurs is right and CNN is fake news  :police:
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Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #73 on: January 23, 2024, 11:08:32 PM »

Online SparzWizard

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I like how the Bucks just straight up fired Adrian Griffin MID-SEASON. Grill them and cut their losses and move on.

This is what the Celtics organization should've done last year with Joe...just dismiss him after Game 3 of the ECF.


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Re: Bucks Fire Adrian Griffin
« Reply #74 on: January 23, 2024, 11:29:30 PM »

Online Goldstar88

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Thinking about it, all this drama gifted us with Jrue. And unlike Dame, Jrue has accepted his role with Boston. What a lucky turn of events for the Celtics.

And people wanted to trade Jaylen for Dame  ;D

Not me, I wanted no part of it. Keep Diva Dame away!
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At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.