Author Topic: Joker  (Read 16369 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Joker
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2019, 11:33:53 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58554
  • Tommy Points: -25636
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Just so it. Very interesting. At times really uncomfortable.

I had small issues with how convenient the plot was at times, and about the inconsistencies of the mental illnesses portrayed. But, really it was quite well done overall. They got the vibe right.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Joker
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2019, 01:13:25 AM »

Online celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15741
  • Tommy Points: 1386
I’m seeing it tomorrow!

Re: Joker
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2019, 03:36:54 AM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
I’m seeing it tomorrow!
I'm seeing it on the weekend - I'm excited!
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Joker
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2019, 10:18:36 AM »

Offline gift

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3984
  • Tommy Points: 291
Loved the movie. Acting was great,story was well executed and the photography and setting was perfect..

As to how much of the portrayed events were "real", I choose to think that the movie clearly gave us some things that were not real and so I take that everything else was real. I also loved how they left conflicting stories as to Arthur's origin (is he a Wayne or is that a story by his crazy mother?). Either could be true and while we really want to know the answer, it really doesn't matter, does it?

Re: Joker
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2019, 10:28:12 AM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
Loved the movie. Acting was great,story was well executed and the photography and setting was perfect..

As to how much of the portrayed events were "real", I choose to think that the movie clearly gave us some things that were not real and so I take that everything else was real. I also loved how they left conflicting stories as to Arthur's origin (is he a Wayne or is that a story by his crazy mother?). Either could be true and while we really want to know the answer, it really doesn't matter, does it?
If there is a follow up film, they could really twist what the reality was to justify any plotline.

Perhaps there was no "clown rioting" in the end and that was all the Joker having grand delusions and hallucinations and what really happened is he escaped, found the Waynes and killed them. Then the Joker was recaptured and sent to Arkham.

Perhaps it's all real and the "clown rioting" gets so bad they break the Joker out of Arkham and make him their underground crime/revolution boss to overturn control of the city from the rich.

Just so many ways to proceed since so much of what happened in the last half of the movie can be looked at as not happening at all because it was just a Joker
schizophrenic manifestation while off his meds.

Re: Joker
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2019, 10:33:07 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18699
  • Tommy Points: 1818
Loved the movie. Acting was great,story was well executed and the photography and setting was perfect..

As to how much of the portrayed events were "real", I choose to think that the movie clearly gave us some things that were not real and so I take that everything else was real. I also loved how they left conflicting stories as to Arthur's origin (is he a Wayne or is that a story by his crazy mother?). Either could be true and while we really want to know the answer, it really doesn't matter, does it?
If there is a follow up film, they could really twist what the reality was to justify any plotline.

Perhaps there was no "clown rioting" in the end and that was all the Joker having grand delusions and hallucinations and what really happened is he escaped, found the Waynes and killed them. Then the Joker was recaptured and sent to Arkham.

Perhaps it's all real and the "clown rioting" gets so bad they break the Joker out of Arkham and make him their underground crime/revolution boss to overturn control of the city from the rich.

Just so many ways to proceed since so much of what happened in the last half of the movie can be looked at as not happening at all because it was just a Joker
schizophrenic manifestation while off his meds.

If it were me I'd make it a trilogy, each movie focused heavily on Joker with little glimpses on Bruce, until Batman arrives as a consequence. That's what I'd love to see.

Re: Joker
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2019, 10:35:27 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58554
  • Tommy Points: -25636
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Loved the movie. Acting was great,story was well executed and the photography and setting was perfect..

As to how much of the portrayed events were "real", I choose to think that the movie clearly gave us some things that were not real and so I take that everything else was real. I also loved how they left conflicting stories as to Arthur's origin (is he a Wayne or is that a story by his crazy mother?). Either could be true and while we really want to know the answer, it really doesn't matter, does it?
If there is a follow up film, they could really twist what the reality was to justify any plotline.

Perhaps there was no "clown rioting" in the end and that was all the Joker having grand delusions and hallucinations and what really happened is he escaped, found the Waynes and killed them. Then the Joker was recaptured and sent to Arkham.

Perhaps it's all real and the "clown rioting" gets so bad they break the Joker out of Arkham and make him their underground crime/revolution boss to overturn control of the city from the rich.

Just so many ways to proceed since so much of what happened in the last half of the movie can be looked at as not happening at all because it was just a Joker
schizophrenic manifestation while off his meds.

If it were me I'd make it a trilogy, each movie focused heavily on Joker with little glimpses on Bruce, until Batman arrives as a consequence. That's what I'd love to see.

It’s like the Gotham television storyline, except that show was cheesy and pretty repetitive.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Joker
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2019, 11:33:33 AM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7489
  • Tommy Points: 741
Saw it yesterday. Some good stuff and some weak stuff. I rated it a 6/10 on IMDb, fwiw.

Phoenix was very good but I do get a little tired of his "look at what I can do with my body" schtick. His ability to contort his body and willingness to hurt himself  on camera is compelling but I don't think he needs it and it feels overkill at times. The rest of the performances are good, too, but this is very much Phoenix's movie. Like I said, he's very good but he's kind of playing Freddie Quell again.

It looks great. The first Oscars I'd nominate it for would be production design and cinematography.

The movie seems to confuse humorlessness with intelligence. It's so desperate to be taken seriously it doesn't bother to give much thought to the questions it raises.  It wants to talk about how society deals with mental illness and then provides a lazy, one-note depiction of a man with mental illness. It wants to give the Joker a real-world origin story and then creates a character that, without the makeup, doesn't bare much of a resemblance to the Joker. It starts a class war but cops out by just demonizing both sides.

And, yes, I do think there is some recklessness in a movie about a troubled, lost man who finds meaning and community in murdering people. In and of itself, that's not a problem unless the movie validates the worldview. Which... it might. 

If that's mostly negative, it's in response to what seems to be a largeley positive thread. I didn't hate the movie but I thought it dropped the ball on the most important stuff.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 01:41:36 PM by Big333223 »
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: Joker
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2019, 02:10:00 PM »

Offline kraidstar

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5368
  • Tommy Points: 2478
Loved the movie. Acting was great,story was well executed and the photography and setting was perfect..

As to how much of the portrayed events were "real", I choose to think that the movie clearly gave us some things that were not real and so I take that everything else was real. I also loved how they left conflicting stories as to Arthur's origin (is he a Wayne or is that a story by his crazy mother?). Either could be true and while we really want to know the answer, it really doesn't matter, does it?
If there is a follow up film, they could really twist what the reality was to justify any plotline.

Perhaps there was no "clown rioting" in the end and that was all the Joker having grand delusions and hallucinations and what really happened is he escaped, found the Waynes and killed them. Then the Joker was recaptured and sent to Arkham.

Perhaps it's all real and the "clown rioting" gets so bad they break the Joker out of Arkham and make him their underground crime/revolution boss to overturn control of the city from the rich.

Just so many ways to proceed since so much of what happened in the last half of the movie can be looked at as not happening at all because it was just a Joker
schizophrenic manifestation while off his meds.

Exactly. And this is what a lot of the films' detractors are missing. The film is at least partially a fantasy for the title character.

Which is in line with the Scorsese classics which inspired it, "Taxi Driver" and "King of Comedy."

And I think that interpretation also fits thematically with the more classic versions of the character. Reality has always been malleable to the Joker.

On a side note, I read an interesting article form a "leading criminologist" about how the toxic mix of factors leading to Fleck's outburst of violence is actually extremely believable and realistic.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/10/joker-joaquin-phoenix-psychology

I can unfortunately testify about the immense strain of caring for mentally and physically ailing family members. i'm taking care of three right now in what I would describe as a nightmare situation. Unlike Fleck though, I have money, emotional, and health care support on my side. But that's not the case for everyone. So this movie really struck a nerve with me on that level.

Re: Joker
« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2019, 08:23:21 PM »

Offline Ogaju

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19479
  • Tommy Points: 1871
How much do y’all think was “real” vs in the mind of the joker?

Spoiler Warning...




I think everything was real... except...

I still have my doubts about his visit to the Late Night Show, and I also have my doubts if he was present during a clown riot in which people were praising him as a hero, as I don't discount he may be the one who killed Thomas Wayne.

I think it was all real, that's the disturbing part of it. Notice how he only killed people who hurt him. He let the midget go for example.

The movie overall is a masterpiece.

Just saw the movie, yeah a masterpiece for sure.

his relationship with the girl was not real, but that is obvious. I loved the movie's score.

Re: Joker
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2019, 08:50:56 PM »

Offline Fierce1

  • NGT
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2630
  • Tommy Points: 121
And I really thought the Joker being discussed is Jokic. :laugh:

Re: Joker
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2019, 07:39:58 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/21/movies/joaquin-phoenix-joker-oscar.html

Who else saw this gem? 

What a disturbing movie. Great performance by Phoenix. 

Re: Joker
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2019, 03:48:34 PM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7489
  • Tommy Points: 741
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/21/movies/joaquin-phoenix-joker-oscar.html

Who else saw this gem? 

What a disturbing movie. Great performance by Phoenix.

He's on everyone's shortlist for a nomination. His problem is there are still a lot of older Oscar voters that were really turned off by the movie. He could still very well get a nomination but it's going to be a crowded Lead Actor field this year.

Terrific performance, though.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: Joker
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2019, 07:37:53 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/21/movies/joaquin-phoenix-joker-oscar.html

Who else saw this gem? 

What a disturbing movie. Great performance by Phoenix.

He's on everyone's shortlist for a nomination. His problem is there are still a lot of older Oscar voters that were really turned off by the movie. He could still very well get a nomination but it's going to be a crowded Lead Actor field this year.

Terrific performance, though.

Why turned off?


Re: Joker
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2019, 08:04:19 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
The Academy voters love giving statues to actors that transform physically to perform a role. Phoenix dropped over 50 pounds so that he could have that emaciated look during the dancing shots without his shirt. Even old school Academy voters like that.