This is crazy. Celtics don't want Jackson. Another trade coming?

[LilRip]

I sincerely hope DA trades the #3 and some filler for Butler. Jackson has a lot of bust potential, IMO. If we can flip him for a perennial allstar (who will be the best overall player on our team, imo), that is a terrific transaction.

[crimson_stallion]

First of both of you guys Big333223 and crimson get a TP when I am done typing.

Big - yes he did trade for IT and that turned out great. I am sure he as much as everyone else are over the top surprised at what they got. I doubt he saw that in IT when he traded but kudos for him for doing it.

Crimson - I totally agree about Butler and that would aid in our chance in beating Cleveland AND to improve the desire of one of those players joining our team. The problem is "when" would he do it or will he? I am just confused about the process and worried someone else will get there foot in the door and steal Butler away.

I am not even a big Butler fan but I do know he is good and he would make our team better and more attractive to free agents, etc.

Thanks guys.

Watch some highlights of Butler, you'll become a fan pretty quickly.

He's an old school player with an old school mentality.  None of this friendship garbage.   He plays the game with a competitive edge - he plays angry, he plays physical,  and he plays to win...and he does it on both ends of the court.

Butler is an incredible scorer who is capable of hitting some pretty darn near impossible shots,  from the perimeter and at the basket.  He can handle the ball,  he's an exceptional passer,  a quality rebounder, a multi-time am defensive teamer.  IIRC he also led his (vastly inferior) bulls to a 3-1 series victory over Cleveland.  And he's not the tour of guy who wants to run off and join superteams - he wants to compete and beat the best, not join them. I respect that.

He made enemies with Joakhim Noah and Derek Rose because he spoke up in disgust at the fact that they sat out practices - he has elite work ethic and he expects the same of his teammates - he believes nobody is too important for practice.  Boston could use somebody like that on this roster. He's one of the most clutch scorers,  statistically, in the game.

If you want to look for criticisms in his game, they're few and far between.  He's a capable 3 long shooter but not an exceptional one.  He's got short t-rex arms.  Thats really about it.   He can play SG, he can play SF, and he can even manage small stretches at PG and PF.  He can basically defend four positions on the court at a squeeze.

His size at SG would make him the PERFECT answer to Klay Thompson if we were to make the finals.

No idea what others have against him,  but he's an elite player, he's on a bargain contract, and he seems to be utterly loyal (based on the fact that he does not want to leave Chicago despite them wanting to go through a rebuild and him not getting along with the coach).

[A Future of Stevens]

So it seems like option 1a is to trade the pick for either a young player on a good contract, or for a star wing, so that we could pair either with Hayward or Blake.

So it also seems like option 1b is to draft Tatum. Most sites have Tatum going at 4 or 5. What is a realistic asset we could pick up to swap spots with the Suns? Have we given up leverage since it looks like we don't love Jackson? Would asking for the heat 1st be too much? Opinions?

I'm starting to be very happy with Tatum. Looks like the best scorer in the draft in my opinion.

[Surferdad]

So much emotion and knee-jerk reaction around here, hardly know where to comment.  Of course, all of this speculation will be worthless in 36 hours.

If a trade is coming, it will be the #3 plus filler for either Butler or Porzingis.

Either player makes the team better.

Either player helps with the FA draw.

Prices are coming down (for PG13 too, but he's not coming here).  This is EXACTLY why Ainge made no moves at the last trade deadline.

Patience...all will be revealed shortly.

[iadera]

I'm starting to think that this No.3, like it or not, will end up at Bulls bringing us Butler. I'm not thrilled with Butler and giving this pick, but it'll happen. We can't bring Davis or Porz, PG13 goes somewhere else, so it's Butler. He expressed he doesn't want Cavs commitment and when a player on a trade-block says he's happy where he is, you know he's gonna be traded. CHI wants this pick and we can give them without losing other picks, sooo yes, it happens.

[hodgy03038]

I sincerely hope DA trades the #3 and some filler for Butler. Jackson has a lot of bust potential, IMO. If we can flip him for a perennial allstar (who will be the best overall player on our team, imo), that is a terrific transaction.

He could have yesterday trade # for Butler with "no filler" so what you are saying is a "filler" to lose salary?

[iadera]

I sincerely hope DA trades the #3 and some filler for Butler. Jackson has a lot of bust potential, IMO. If we can flip him for a perennial allstar (who will be the best overall player on our team, imo), that is a terrific transaction.

He could have yesterday trade # for Butler with "no filler" so what you are saying is a "filler" to lose salary?

It'll be Crowder probably, Zeller, Mickey,...to match the salary.

[Roy H.]

He made enemies with Joakhim Noah and Derek Rose because he spoke up in disgust at the fact that they sat out practices - he has elite work ethic and he expects the same of his teammates - he believes nobody is too important for practice.

Devil's advocate, but wasn't some of the in-fighting because Rose and Butler both wanted the ball, and Butler thought he wasn't getting enough touches?

And didn't Rondo call him out for being a bad example and for caring about getting numbers over wins? For "taking days off", for not taking responsibility, and for not getting in the gym?

[jmen788]

Another trade? You mean other teams. I think this is the same old story. Danny just waits and waits and waits and does NOTHING again just like at the trade deadline. I am not sure what his "super LONG game" is but it is driving me crazy. Lakers are making trades and Philly has our #1 and we are waiting and waiting. Chicago apparently offered Butler for the #3 pick. Didn't Danny a few months ago indicate he would trade a boatload of assets for Butler? What is happening?

How can you say this when he just catapulted all this NBA craziness by trading the #1 pick?

You should realize that the Celtics are involved in nearly every major trade, at least by teams exploring whether there is any interest in the Cs moving picks/players.  How many times do we have to hear Jimmy Butler to Boston?  If they don't want Butler, why does this mean he is doing nothing?

It's bizarre. Ainge makes more deals than any other GM in the league but, somehow, has a reputation as a guy who never does anything. I don't get it.

He is trading picks. When will we actually see a player? A lot of people are saying he will deal the #3 pick in some big deal but I don't see it. I hope I am wrong. What confuses me is a few months ago at the deadline I was hearing that he was trying desperately to get Butler and even overpaying. But yesterday all of a sudden the #3 pick alone is too costly for that same player? Is the player worse? We changed our mind? I don't get it.

He traded for Isaiah Thomas less than 3 seasons ago. He signed the second best free agent on the market last summer. The same summer he drafted an exciting young prospect #3. Ainge is constantly bringing in new players.

He traded for Thomas because (and only because)  he got him for pretty much nothing.

He signed Horford because there was nobody better willing to sign,
 and he had the cap storage, and didn't have to give anything up to get him.

He drafted Brown #3 because he had the pick,  so may as well use it.

He shies away from any big trades though.   Anything that involves giving up valuable assets, he tends to just not do it.   

The problem is that as a general rule,  you need to give up something nice to get something nice.  You can't get by forever by embarrassing o stupid GMs  who decide to trade excellent assets for loose change.   You can't just keep waiting for the next time to trade two old retirees fit 3 future top 3 picks.   Deals like that just dont come along very often. You need to accept that in order to get better,  sometimes you need to take a risk - sometimes you need to let go of somebody good in order to acquire somebody better.

I'm guessing be probably is holding back on the Butler trade because he knows that in order to do the trade he needs to either:

1. sacrifice Bradley
2. Sacrifice Brown
3. Sacrifice the ability to sign a max free agent
4. Sacrifice #3 pick

They are all nice pieces that are difficult to let go of,  and so I'm sure he'll try to find a way to negotiate a  scenario where he can make the trade without having to e do any of the above, but he can't because there are simple laws of salary matching he has to abide by,  and that means one of those pieces (at least)  needs to go.

So he'll keep pushing and pushing for the bulls to give Butlerv way for scraps,  which they are not going to do,  until eventually some other team makes an offer and gets Butler for a bargain price,  and Danny misses out and comes out looking like an idiot.

The Hornets fir example just got Dwight Howard for nothing.  absolute scraps.  He would have helped our team tremendously and we could have easily beat that offer.   But from what I see Danny just tries to play head games with opposing GMs,  and they get fed up with his garbage and just decide to deal with somebody else...and in the end its the Celtics and their fans that tend to miss out.

Now we all knew,  #3 fir Butler was on the table.   We all know that Ainge COULD have had Butler for the cost of a single #3 pick.  I dont know of any team in history that has gotten a player of butler's calibre,  in his prime,  for that cheap.  Everbody the Wolves got a #1 pick plus other bits for Kevin Love - and Butler is better then love ever was.  But he won't abettor the deal because he wants to keep that cap space.

So when he misses out on Butler because he goes elsewhere,  and he misses out on George because he goes elsewhere,  and he misses out on Hayward because he decides to stay in Utah,  and he missed out on Griffin because he decides to sign elsewhere or return to the Clippers...

Then we can all look back on this moment and remind ourselves that we had Butler right in the palm of our hands...and Danny threw him right back in the pond.

When whatever rookie we draft at #3 is coming off the bench playing 15-20 MPG while Crowder gets destroyed by Lebron we can remeber - we could have had Butler instead of that rookie.

Omg dude. Enough. Enough with the Butler nonsense. He will need to get paid 200 million in a couple of years and will hurt us from making other moves. He's also ball dominant just like IT and is not a good fit - his position is not one of need the way a big is. Enough.

[Jack_Frost]

Just thinking: is it possibile to pick one between GH and Griffin in FA then S&T for the other?

Now you can give
#3
Bradley
Crowder
Zeller

I know it's way too much, but they will be around 28-30 mln... you can match a max contract via s&t. Am i wrong?

IT/rozier
Brown/smart
GH/Brown
Griffin/theis
Horford/zizic

I know, horrible bench... maybe we can pick some good players via cap exception.. no? 

[Big333223]

He traded for Thomas because (and only because)  he got him for pretty much nothing.

He signed Horford because there was nobody better willing to sign,
 and he had the cap storage, and didn't have to give anything up to get him.

He drafted Brown #3 because he had the pick,  so may as well use it.

He shies away from any big trades though.   Anything that involves giving up valuable assets, he tends to just not do it.

The problem is that as a general rule,  you need to give up something nice to get something nice.  You can't get by forever by embarrassing o stupid GMs  who decide to trade excellent assets for loose change.   You can't just keep waiting for the next time to trade two old retirees fit 3 future top 3 picks.   Deals like that just dont come along very often. You need to accept that in order to get better,  sometimes you need to take a risk - sometimes you need to let go of somebody good in order to acquire somebody better.

I'm guessing be probably is holding back on the Butler trade because he knows that in order to do the trade he needs to either:

1. sacrifice Bradley
2. Sacrifice Brown
3. Sacrifice the ability to sign a max free agent
4. Sacrifice #3 pick

They are all nice pieces that are difficult to let go of,  and so I'm sure he'll try to find a way to negotiate a  scenario where he can make the trade without having to e do any of the above, but he can't because there are simple laws of salary matching he has to abide by,  and that means one of those pieces (at least)  needs to go.

So he'll keep pushing and pushing for the bulls to give Butlerv way for scraps,  which they are not going to do,  until eventually some other team makes an offer and gets Butler for a bargain price,  and Danny misses out and comes out looking like an idiot.

The Hornets fir example just got Dwight Howard for nothing.  absolute scraps.  He would have helped our team tremendously and we could have easily beat that offer.   But from what I see Danny just tries to play head games with opposing GMs,  and they get fed up with his garbage and just decide to deal with somebody else...and in the end its the Celtics and their fans that tend to miss out.

Now we all knew,  #3 fir Butler was on the table.   We all know that Ainge COULD have had Butler for the cost of a single #3 pick.  I dont know of any team in history that has gotten a player of butler's calibre,  in his prime,  for that cheap.  Everbody the Wolves got a #1 pick plus other bits for Kevin Love - and Butler is better then love ever was.  But he won't abettor the deal because he wants to keep that cap space.

So when he misses out on Butler because he goes elsewhere,  and he misses out on George because he goes elsewhere,  and he misses out on Hayward because he decides to stay in Utah,  and he missed out on Griffin because he decides to sign elsewhere or return to the Clippers...

Then we can all look back on this moment and remind ourselves that we had Butler right in the palm of our hands...and Danny threw him right back in the pond.

When whatever rookie we draft at #3 is coming off the bench playing 15-20 MPG while Crowder gets destroyed by Lebron we can remeber - we could have had Butler instead of that rookie.

Trading for Allen and then Garnett were huge trades that involved giving up a ton of pieces. He didn't shy away from that. Trading Pierce and Garnett was a monster trade that a lot of people criticized him for at the time. No shying away from that deal. He traded away Rondo, then Green (the team's leading scorer at the time), and now has even traded away the #1 overall pick. Ainge certainly does not "shy away from big trades."

As for Butler, the reported price for Butler last February was a giant package of Brooklyn picks and young players. Now, allegedly, the price is down to something like "just #3." If the price has fallen that much, that fast, then Ainge not doing the deal 4 months ago is inarguably a smart move, especially when you consider that Boston would almost definitely would not have made it farther in the playoffs with Butler than they did without him.

If Ainge doesn't trade for him now? It doesn't mean he shies away from trades. It might mean that he prefers signing Hayward for nothing to giving up assets for Jimmy Butler. Or it might mean he thinks we're all set at the wing.

There are alternate explanations for why Ainge doesn't pull the trigger on a deal and he obviously doesn't want to make a bad deal but there is a ton of evidence that he has no trouble taking risks on big trades.

[Tr1boy]

Ainge will let Jackson slide and pick him (if he is the guy)

Celtics situation is unique in that it never happens

Some top 5 talented players are not going to be excited to join such a team...

Most of these prospects are used to being the "man" since elementary school

But losing stinks and winning is contageous .. 

[dreamgreen]

He made enemies with Joakhim Noah and Derek Rose because he spoke up in disgust at the fact that they sat out practices - he has elite work ethic and he expects the same of his teammates - he believes nobody is too important for practice.

Devil's advocate, but wasn't some of the in-fighting because Rose and Butler both wanted the ball, and Butler thought he wasn't getting enough touches?

And didn't Rondo call him out for being a bad example and for caring about getting numbers over wins? For "taking days off", for not taking responsibility, and for not getting in the gym?

Yea so that's my big question. Why are the Bulls willing to trade Butler is he an Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline., nobody likes him, bad teammate, whats the deal?

[hpantazo]

He made enemies with Joakhim Noah and Derek Rose because he spoke up in disgust at the fact that they sat out practices - he has elite work ethic and he expects the same of his teammates - he believes nobody is too important for practice.

Devil's advocate, but wasn't some of the in-fighting because Rose and Butler both wanted the ball, and Butler thought he wasn't getting enough touches?

And didn't Rondo call him out for being a bad example and for caring about getting numbers over wins? For "taking days off", for not taking responsibility, and for not getting in the gym?

Good point. Some rumors have suggested that the Celtics interest in Butler is not very strong because of concerns of how he would fit with IT.

[Tr1boy]

He made enemies with Joakhim Noah and Derek Rose because he spoke up in disgust at the fact that they sat out practices - he has elite work ethic and he expects the same of his teammates - he believes nobody is too important for practice.

Devil's advocate, but wasn't some of the in-fighting because Rose and Butler both wanted the ball, and Butler thought he wasn't getting enough touches?

And didn't Rondo call him out for being a bad example and for caring about getting numbers over wins? For "taking days off", for not taking responsibility, and for not getting in the gym?

Yea so that's my big question. Why are the Bulls willing to trade Butler is he an ****, nobody likes him, bad teammate, whats the deal?

He is hard on himself and his teammates

If you are not working as hard as him , he may lash out on you ...if losing takes a toll

Same with practice...

Though I think he went overboard with Rose, Noah..both guys were injury prone. 

This said...Butler would fit in with the current Celtics culture..who dont take any shortcuts anyways (games, practice etc.)