Let's Be Honest About The 15th Spot

[Eeyore III]

I was wrong about Harangody.  Based on summer league, I thought he'd come right in and contribute, but he looks like a totally DIFFERENT PERSON.    Total deer-in-headlights.    The sooner he can get sent to the D-League to (hopefully) get his confidence back , the better.

I knew Wafer would suck.  If a team's plan is to maybe pick up a D-League all-star at some point in the year, then maybe you pick up Wafer now, because that's what he is and will be: a D-League all-star.  But if you're expecting more, expect disappointment.

Of the guys under discussion, Lasme is by far the best player.  I betcha he ends up on an NBA roster elsewhere, if not here.  He reminds me a bit of a poor man's Cedric Maxwell.  He's at least quick off the floor.  He's rootable.

[thirstyboots18]

And...I don't think Danny wants to load up with middle of the road veterans at multi year contracts, given that there may be a lockout next year.  Young guys with potential and low salaries will help us reload in two years when some of our stars will be retiring.  Harangody is a project, but has good instincts (which Wafer has not shown) and Lasme is an athletic energy guy.  Erden has played with and against NBA player and has a nice game.  These guys seem like building blocks to add to Rondo, Perk and Delonte to build for the future.  They may not all be starters, or even make the grade, but the "potential" is there, and if they don't work out the cost is miminal.

[clover]

I think the Celtics' alternatives are to either keep Lasme or leave the spot open and pick up another free agent.  Perhaps someone like Jerry Stackhouse, who I believe is still available.  Although he's older, remember how he played in Milwaukee last year, and he fits the Celtics needs for depth at small forward.  Definitely an upgrade over either Von Wafer or Mario West.  It's a toss up versus Stephane Lasme.

I think Wafer and MWest are out.  So is any idea of Gody stretching to the 3 this year (if ever). But Nate and Delonte and Daniels are all looking good, which means they can take a half season to see whether Lasme is ready for the 3--and build some value in him even if he isn't.  No need to pull the emergency switch this early.

[GreenEnvy]

And...I don't think Danny wants to load up with middle of the road veterans at multi year contracts, given that there may be a lockout next year.  Young guys with potential and low salaries will help us reload in two years when some of our stars will be retiring.  Harangody is a project, but has good instincts (which Wafer has not shown) and Lasme is an athletic energy guy.  Erden has played with and against NBA player and has a nice game.  These guys seem like building blocks to add to Rondo, Perk and Delonte to build for the future.  They may not all be starters, or even make the grade, but the "potential" is there, and if they don't work out the cost is miminal.

I highly doubt anyone on this team is retired in two years other than Shaq.

It is nice to add building blocks/prospects for the future, but not at the expense of impact players who can help us win a championship now.

Honestly, I don't care what your name is, when you were drafted, where you went to school, or how much you make. I just want the 15 players who can help us most win a championship this season and next.

[billysan]

One thing that most are forgetting here regarding the end of the bench guys, (correct me if I am wrong) as of this season teams can designate up to three players to go to the D league. They do not count against the 15 man roster and may sign with other teams. The player must accept the assignment.

This would certainly change the current discussion about Lasme. He is quoted in the Herald (I think) as saying he would accept a job playing for the Red Claws to be near his wife and child in Boston.

Harangody will certainly go to Maine right away since he has a contract. He will along with Perk and Delonte be our inactive 3 guys to start the year. Bradley will go to the D league as soon as Delonte is back from suspension. It remains to be seen if Lasme is used in that 12th active slot, even temporarily.

As to Von Wafer and that 15th spot, now that Avery Bradley appears able to practice he may make having a Delonte West insurance guy unecessary behind Nate and Marquis. I think Wafer is gone. He just isnt showing anything on the court and unless he hits a few jumpers in the next couple games why would we keep him? There will be better players available when Pre-Season ends IMO.

I just think Danny will use every available trick to keep a roster spot open while he scours the camp cuts. There are a number of teams with a max number of contracts to deal with. We may see a player added to take care of the SF backup issue and still keep Lasme in Maine.

[clover]

One thing that most are forgetting here regarding the end of the bench guys, (correct me if I am wrong) as of this season teams can designate up to three players to go to the D league. They do not count against the 15 man roster and may sign with other teams. The player must accept the assignment.

This would certainly change the current discussion about Lasme. He is quoted in the Herald (I think) as saying he would accept a job playing for the Red Claws to be near his wife and child in Boston.

Harangody will certainly go to Maine right away since he has a contract. He will along with Perk and Delonte be our inactive 3 guys to start the year. Bradley will go to the D league as soon as Delonte is back from suspension. It remains to be seen if Lasme is used in that 12th active slot, even temporarily.

As to Von Wafer and that 15th spot, now that Avery Bradley appears able to practice he may make having a Delonte West insurance guy unecessary behind Nate and Marquis. I think Wafer is gone. He just isnt showing anything on the court and unless he hits a few jumpers in the next couple games why would we keep him? There will be better players available when Pre-Season ends IMO.

I just think Danny will use every available trick to keep a roster spot open while he scours the camp cuts. There are a number of teams with a max number of contracts to deal with. We may see a player added to take care of the SF backup issue and still keep Lasme in Maine.

It seems like Doc and Danny have liked to keep the rookies up with the big team for a bit, if just to watch and practice with them.  If Harangody can't get himself straightened out over the remainder of the preseason, however, he may prove an exception, as they might just want to get him to relax a little in D league.

I think Wafer and MWest are gone.  That's right, the Wafer's going to be a fortune cookie in China.  The question is whether they put Lasme in at 15 or just stick him up in D league.  It will also be interesting to see whether they try him at the 3 in any of the remaining preseason games.

[LooseCannon]

With Perkins out with a long-term injury, if Avery Bradley is sent to the D-League, whoever gets the 15th roster spot is basically occupying the same spot on the depth chart that was held last season by Brian Scalabrine and Shelden Williams.  Scalabrine played 9.1 mpg in 52 games.  Williams played 11.1 mpg in 54 games.  Granted, some of those minutes for Scal disappear if BBD is healthy.

If Mr. 15 and Harangody provide upgrades over Scal/Williams, that would probably be worth at least 1-2 wins if all else remained the same.

[Greenback]

Lasme may be the closest replacement we get to big game James Posey's defense.

Except Lasme is a better shotblocker...

Have him work with KG for a few months and watch what happens.

No Wafer, no way.

[Surferdad]

I think the Celtics' alternatives are to either keep Lasme or leave the spot open and pick up another free agent.  Perhaps someone like Jerry Stackhouse, who I believe is still available.  Although he's older, remember how he played in Milwaukee last year, and he fits the Celtics needs for depth at small forward.  Definitely an upgrade over either Von Wafer or Mario West.  It's a toss up versus Stephane Lasme.

Been there, done that with Michael Finley last year, no thanks.  Plus Stack is allergic to defense and he's old.  Why bother?

[Surferdad]

A guy like Lasme, he's still a project, and if he does make the 15 man roster will likely spend most of the season in Maine trying to learn to play the small forward.

Lasme is _anything_ but a project. The guy will be 28 before the season ends.

One of the two big reasons I doubt he earns a roster spot.


1) Age for being a project
2) Depth at the position.






I am still thinking Wafer or West for the 1st ten games, and if they fail to impress, they could be gone to create a roster space to wait for some other recycling project.

Disagree on both points:
1) Age is irrelevant.  We're talkng about the 15th spot.  I also don't think he's as much of a project as the rookies.  He's played in the league (many pro leagues actually) so his maturity is actually a benefit.  It's not like they want ihm for the lnog run.
2) C's actually do not have a lot of depth at the 3 (Pierce and injury-prone Quis) which is where they should try to play Lasme.

[billysan]

A guy like Lasme, he's still a project, and if he does make the 15 man roster will likely spend most of the season in Maine trying to learn to play the small forward.

Lasme is _anything_ but a project. The guy will be 28 before the season ends.

One of the two big reasons I doubt he earns a roster spot.


1) Age for being a project
2) Depth at the position.






I am still thinking Wafer or West for the 1st ten games, and if they fail to impress, they could be gone to create a roster space to wait for some other recycling project.

Disagree on both points:
1) Age is irrelevant.  We're talkng about the 15th spot.  I also don't think he's as much of a project as the rookies.  He's played in the league (many pro leagues actually) so his maturity is actually a benefit.  It's not like they want ihm for the lnog run.
2) C's actually do not have a lot of depth at the 3 (Pierce and injury-prone Quis) which is where they should try to play Lasme.

While I fully agree with your assessment of his maturity, defensive mindset and exceptional athleticism all being good reasons to keep him, I still havent seen him prove he can play the SF position. That is the crux of the matter and the real need that the team has at this stage. We just dont need an energetic end of the bench tweener IMO.

[Surferdad]

One thing that most are forgetting here regarding the end of the bench guys, (correct me if I am wrong) as of this season teams can designate up to three players to go to the D league. They do not count against the 15 man roster and may sign with other teams. The player must accept the assignment.

This would certainly change the current discussion about Lasme. He is quoted in the Herald (I think) as saying he would accept a job playing for the Red Claws to be near his wife and child in Boston.

Harangody will certainly go to Maine right away since he has a contract. He will along with Perk and Delonte be our inactive 3 guys to start the year. Bradley will go to the D league as soon as Delonte is back from suspension. It remains to be seen if Lasme is used in that 12th active slot, even temporarily.

As to Von Wafer and that 15th spot, now that Avery Bradley appears able to practice he may make having a Delonte West insurance guy unecessary behind Nate and Marquis. I think Wafer is gone. He just isnt showing anything on the court and unless he hits a few jumpers in the next couple games why would we keep him? There will be better players available when Pre-Season ends IMO.

I just think Danny will use every available trick to keep a roster spot open while he scours the camp cuts. There are a number of teams with a max number of contracts to deal with. We may see a player added to take care of the SF backup issue and still keep Lasme in Maine.

It seems like Doc and Danny have liked to keep the rookies up with the big team for a bit, if just to watch and practice with them.  If Harangody can't get himself straightened out over the remainder of the preseason, however, he may prove an exception, as they might just want to get him to relax a little in D league.

I think Wafer and MWest are gone.  That's right, the Wafer's going to be a fortune cookie in China.  The question is whether they put Lasme in at 15 or just stick him up in D league.  It will also be interesting to see whether they try him at the 3 in any of the remaining preseason games.

I believe the D-league season starts later than the NBA which is why those guys sit on the big league bench until then.

[LooseCannon]

While I fully agree with your assessment of his maturity, defensive mindset and exceptional athleticism all being good reasons to keep him, I still havent seen him prove he can play the SF position. That is the crux of the matter and the real need that the team has at this stage. We just dont need an energetic end of the bench tweener IMO.

His competition seems to be Von Wafer and Mario West.  Is there any real proof that Wafer can play the SF position?

Unless Lasme blows people away, it almost doesn't matter how good he is.  His situation makes him almost ideal for the new D-League rules that allow teams to get favored placement for their last cuts in training camp.  Even if he is judged to be slightly better than Wafer and Mario West, he's going to the D-League.  That is the most advantageous way for Boston to make use of the rules.

[Roy H.]

Is there any real proof that Wafer can play the SF position?

In 2008, Wafer play 11% of Houston's minutes at SF, as opposed to 19% at SG.  So, he has at least some time there. 

http://www.82games.com/0809/08HOU6.HTM#bypos

[LooseCannon]

Let me rephrase that.  Is there any real proof that Wafer can play the SF well?

I am a bit skeptical of the stats from 82games.com.  Wafer is listed as the small forward in lineups where he plays beside a point guard and occasional point-forward Brent Barry, who 82games has almost exclusively as a shooting guard.  Would you consider Wafer to be the SF or SG in that lineup or is it a three-guard lineup with no SF?

If Doc said that Marquis Daniels is a guard and that, when Paul Pierce is not in the game, the team will go with smaller three-guard sets and eschew the use of a formal small forward, would people hate that?