Author Topic: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11  (Read 18453 times)

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Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #105 on: January 17, 2018, 02:19:36 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I think it is pretty clear the Celtics should have just done the short video when he first came back and said now or never. None of the other stuff would have happened if they did that.

Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #106 on: January 17, 2018, 02:43:32 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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You're grasping at straws. IT doesn't have a large nuclear family (just checked). Let's say it costs $800 for a round trip ticket. Another $300 for a hotel room (let's give him 3 rooms). Let's assume that no one is going to pay for themselves. I don't see why that 2 minute video should cost IT more than $5k. He just got fined $20k and nobody started a charity to help him make ends meet.

I'm not grasping at anything.  This isn't about just his nuclear family.  He has extended family and friends.  And it isn't about the cost.  As I said, "however much he might make", asking folks to fly mid week for such a short-lived event all the way across the country and back is a huge logistical deal for folks.  It doesn't matter how much the tickets and hotel cost or who is paying for it.   I fly solo back and forth across the country at times for work and it's a huge pain in the butt and only do it when I know I'm going to be on the other side for meaningful time before turning around.
Quote

I do agree that this is an opportunity for fans to pile on. While Roy was turned off by Rondo's last days in Boston, I was turned off by IT's outspoken comments. It is ok to be turned off by things that people say/do.

I do think that this was more of a logistical issue than anything, and all parties are to blame. I think my comments came from the context that CLE has been brutal since IT has returned. I'm not inferring any causality, but it doesn't look good for a player that is struggling to concern himself with these trivial matters. I would think that IT should be focused on the future and not the past, esp if he is going to help pay for his family to make future trips to NBA championships.

Your context is not well informed.  CLE has been brutal for long before IT returned.   They are in the midst of a 3-9 slump.  That's 11 games.  Thomas has only played in 5 (and not even full-time minutes in those) games.   Cleveland's defensive problems have almost nothing to do with Thomas as they've been there all season and are directly assignable to several different Cavs players.   As a team they are the worst in the NBA at defending P&R rollers and ISO plays.  And they have several notable offenders (none of them named Thomas) who are getting lit up on those plays and have been all season.   Some of that is because players like Korver, Smith, etc., are simply old & slow and not good at defending those play types.   Some of that though, is probably on Lue since when so many different individuals are getting lit up by the same two play types that it has your whole team running away with first place as worst in defending them, it's almost certainly partly systematic and you have to adjust scheme to try to take those situations away.

Certainly, Thomas is not likely to 'fix' their defensive problems.  But at least so far, in his small sample size, his own defensive metrics show he is nowhere near their worst defensive problem.   He's one of the few CLE players with a negative DFG% differential (negative is good).   And on the play type that he's required to defend the most, P&R ball-handlers, he's ranking out as above league average so far (59.6% percentile).  That accounts for half the plays he defends.

I have also traveled. I disagree that it would have been a monumental task to fly his family. If you're expanding this to family/friends/friends of friends, then yes, it would get expensive.

I appreciate you taking the time to provide evidence that IT isn't Cleveland's problem. I agree with this statement.

My statement was that he should be focused on the future, not the past. Talking about tributes (the past) doesn't help his team right the ship, and it doesn't help likelihood of getting paid. He wants the Brinks truck and wants to play for a winner. I think its also plausible that he would like to throw any wrench that he has in Danny Ainge's machinery. As small of a thing as a tribute is, this was IT's only wrench.

Now, I'm not saying that a team will pay IT only b/c he's a good guy and knows when to let an issue go. They will pay him big $ b/c they think he can help their team win a championship. His offers this offseason will give us a read on how he is perceived by the rest of the NBA. I wish him nothing but good luck and hope that he can make big money so plane flights aren't such a big issue.


Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #107 on: January 17, 2018, 03:53:36 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I'm not going to pass judgment on Pierce, IT, Rondo, KG, or Tony Allen for anything any of them said about this situation. Simply, the Celtics front office botched this big time. If IT didn't want the tribute that day, the front office should have known the next time IT was in town was Pierce's night.

Ainge and the front office went FUBAR on this. No reason to pass judgment on anyone else for their opinions once Ainge screwed the pouch.

Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #108 on: January 17, 2018, 04:00:53 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Like it or not IT4 is still going to get an ovation.... just let the team show a short clip....geeez


Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #109 on: January 17, 2018, 04:06:01 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Like it or not IT4 is still going to get an ovation.... just let the team show a short clip....geeez

Celtics brass will shut that down too.

PA’s mic will be cut when he introduces IT in the starting lineup.
CELTICS 2024

Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #110 on: January 17, 2018, 04:36:19 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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How is anyone defending Thomas here?

By the numbers

Dec 21 - Assigned to G-League affiliate to practice fully vs them.

Dec 27 - Says he's good enough to play vs Sacramento, but the team doesn't allow him to.

Dec 29 - First full scrimmage with the Cavs (as an older team they don't scrimmage much).

Dec 30 - He doesn't play vs Sacramento, since it's the day after the scrimmage, but the team expects him to make his season debut in a few days.


This is where there are issues with Thomas. He can't play back-to-back games, so he decides to play on January 2nd and not play in Boston the following night. His reasoning being, "I don't want to play just to be out there, so, I don't know. That minute restriction, that would be tough to play in Boston on a minute restriction", clearly speaks as to his intentions. It's not about a tribute, since he would've had it on that night (January 3rd). It's not about not being able to get his family there, since all indications were that he was targeting that week for a while. No,it's all about sticking it to the C's. So why would we reward a person that has repeatedly criticized Ainge, dictated the terms of a video tribute, wanted to move it to a night we celebrate a true Celtics legend, all so he could stick it to us and make the night about him being honored and getting revenge?

Yeah, I don't think so. Good luck with the Brinks truck on that bad hip.

Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #111 on: January 17, 2018, 04:37:48 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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You're grasping at straws. IT doesn't have a large nuclear family (just checked). Let's say it costs $800 for a round trip ticket. Another $300 for a hotel room (let's give him 3 rooms). Let's assume that no one is going to pay for themselves. I don't see why that 2 minute video should cost IT more than $5k. He just got fined $20k and nobody started a charity to help him make ends meet.

I'm not grasping at anything.  This isn't about just his nuclear family.  He has extended family and friends.  And it isn't about the cost.  As I said, "however much he might make", asking folks to fly mid week for such a short-lived event all the way across the country and back is a huge logistical deal for folks.  It doesn't matter how much the tickets and hotel cost or who is paying for it.   I fly solo back and forth across the country at times for work and it's a huge pain in the butt and only do it when I know I'm going to be on the other side for meaningful time before turning around.
Quote

I do agree that this is an opportunity for fans to pile on. While Roy was turned off by Rondo's last days in Boston, I was turned off by IT's outspoken comments. It is ok to be turned off by things that people say/do.

I do think that this was more of a logistical issue than anything, and all parties are to blame. I think my comments came from the context that CLE has been brutal since IT has returned. I'm not inferring any causality, but it doesn't look good for a player that is struggling to concern himself with these trivial matters. I would think that IT should be focused on the future and not the past, esp if he is going to help pay for his family to make future trips to NBA championships.

Your context is not well informed.  CLE has been brutal for long before IT returned.   They are in the midst of a 3-9 slump.  That's 11 games.  Thomas has only played in 5 (and not even full-time minutes in those) games.   Cleveland's defensive problems have almost nothing to do with Thomas as they've been there all season and are directly assignable to several different Cavs players.   As a team they are the worst in the NBA at defending P&R rollers and ISO plays.  And they have several notable offenders (none of them named Thomas) who are getting lit up on those plays and have been all season.   Some of that is because players like Korver, Smith, etc., are simply old & slow and not good at defending those play types.   Some of that though, is probably on Lue since when so many different individuals are getting lit up by the same two play types that it has your whole team running away with first place as worst in defending them, it's almost certainly partly systematic and you have to adjust scheme to try to take those situations away.

Certainly, Thomas is not likely to 'fix' their defensive problems.  But at least so far, in his small sample size, his own defensive metrics show he is nowhere near their worst defensive problem.   He's one of the few CLE players with a negative DFG% differential (negative is good).   And on the play type that he's required to defend the most, P&R ball-handlers, he's ranking out as above league average so far (59.6% percentile).  That accounts for half the plays he defends.

I have also traveled. I disagree that it would have been a monumental task to fly his family. If you're expanding this to family/friends/friends of friends, then yes, it would get expensive.

I appreciate you taking the time to provide evidence that IT isn't Cleveland's problem. I agree with this statement.

My statement was that he should be focused on the future, not the past. Talking about tributes (the past) doesn't help his team right the ship, and it doesn't help likelihood of getting paid. He wants the Brinks truck and wants to play for a winner.

Thomas isn't the one talking about all this stuff.  Other people are.   All he has ever really said is (a) when told by the Cs that they wanted to do a video and it was clear he wouldn't be able to play, he asked if it could be put off for another day when he would actually be playing and (b) when that ended up getting under the skirts of everyone because the next obvious day was Paul Pierce's number ceremony day he asked out of having a video tribute so the Cs could focus on Pierce.

I suspect that Thomas has his eyes on his own future and probably doesn't need our life advice.   How he'll get paid will depend almost certainly on how well he plays through the rest of this year.

Quote
I think its also plausible that he would like to throw any wrench that he has in Danny Ainge's machinery. As small of a thing as a tribute is, this was IT's only wrench.

As plausible as anything might be, that reads pretty much like made up, fantasy projection on your part.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #112 on: January 17, 2018, 04:45:57 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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How is anyone defending Thomas here?

By the numbers

Dec 21 - Assigned to G-League affiliate to practice fully vs them.

Dec 27 - Says he's good enough to play vs Sacramento, but the team doesn't allow him to.

Dec 29 - First full scrimmage with the Cavs (as an older team they don't scrimmage much).

Dec 30 - He doesn't play vs Sacramento, since it's the day after the scrimmage, but the team expects him to make his season debut in a few days.


This is where there are issues with Thomas. He can't play back-to-back games, so he decides to play on January 2nd and not play in Boston the following night. His reasoning being, "I don't want to play just to be out there, so, I don't know. That minute restriction, that would be tough to play in Boston on a minute restriction", clearly speaks as to his intentions. It's not about a tribute, since he would've had it on that night (January 3rd). It's not about not being able to get his family there, since all indications were that he was targeting that week for a while. No,it's all about sticking it to the C's. So why would we reward a person that has repeatedly criticized Ainge, dictated the terms of a video tribute, wanted to move it to a night we celebrate a true Celtics legend, all so he could stick it to us and make the night about him being honored and getting revenge?

Yeah, I don't think so. Good luck with the Brinks truck on that bad hip.
I was under the impression that Cleveland wanted to bring him back at a home game, where they could have their full medical staff there.
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Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #113 on: January 17, 2018, 04:48:12 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Rondo also fired a shot at IT implying that he doesn't deserve the video tribute:


Ouch. But true.
Love how it’s WE.!!

After he quit on the team, skipped games and stopped playing defense he doesn’t have a lot of room to critique others. 

IT loved playing here and gave his heart and soul to this team. That’s what we’d be celebrating. 

If anybody didn’t deserve a tribute video, it’s Rondo, based upon the way that he dogged it on his way out of town.
In terms of Celtics legacies Rondo > IT

Sure. He was drafted here and played more seasons here. He was somewhere between the 4th and 6th best player on a title team, a goal IT never achieved.

That said, if you swap IT and Rondo, the 2008 squad would have still won, while there’s little chance that last year’s team makes the ECF.  Plus, IT never dogged it, unlike what we saw at the end of Rondo’s career. It soured things.
Id say tribute videos are earned through ones legacy as a Celtic and we've just agreed that Rondo has a greater Celtic legacy than Thomas.

Whether IT would have had more or less success with the big 3 seems irrelevant to the discussion.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #114 on: January 17, 2018, 05:02:23 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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How is anyone defending Thomas here?

By the numbers

Dec 21 - Assigned to G-League affiliate to practice fully vs them.

Dec 27 - Says he's good enough to play vs Sacramento, but the team doesn't allow him to.

Dec 29 - First full scrimmage with the Cavs (as an older team they don't scrimmage much).

Dec 30 - He doesn't play vs Sacramento, since it's the day after the scrimmage, but the team expects him to make his season debut in a few days.


This is where there are issues with Thomas. He can't play back-to-back games, so he decides to play on January 2nd and not play in Boston the following night. His reasoning being, "I don't want to play just to be out there, so, I don't know. That minute restriction, that would be tough to play in Boston on a minute restriction", clearly speaks as to his intentions. It's not about a tribute, since he would've had it on that night (January 3rd).

No.  The reason for playing the prior game was because it was a home game.   When a player comes back and plays after a long rehab, there is always risk of something happening, in particular bad muscle cramps.   Med staff always prefers them to start back at home.

But that's a colorful narrative about his intentions you've got going.
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Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #115 on: January 17, 2018, 05:03:06 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Rondo also fired a shot at IT implying that he doesn't deserve the video tribute:


Ouch. But true.
Love how it’s WE.!!

After he quit on the team, skipped games and stopped playing defense he doesn’t have a lot of room to critique others. 

IT loved playing here and gave his heart and soul to this team. That’s what we’d be celebrating. 

If anybody didn’t deserve a tribute video, it’s Rondo, based upon the way that he dogged it on his way out of town.
In terms of Celtics legacies Rondo > IT

Sure. He was drafted here and played more seasons here. He was somewhere between the 4th and 6th best player on a title team, a goal IT never achieved.

That said, if you swap IT and Rondo, the 2008 squad would have still won, while there’s little chance that last year’s team makes the ECF.  Plus, IT never dogged it, unlike what we saw at the end of Rondo’s career. It soured things.
Id say tribute videos are earned through ones legacy as a Celtic and we've just agreed that Rondo has a greater Celtic legacy than Thomas.

Whether IT would have had more or less success with the big 3 seems irrelevant to the discussion.

When you force your way off the team through your poor play, effort and attitude, I don’t think the team owes a guy anything.

Look at what the Cavs did with Kyrie: he forced a trade, and he wasn’t welcomed back.  There’s something to be said for appreciating the guys who valued your franchise.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #116 on: January 17, 2018, 05:07:35 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

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I think it is pretty clear the Celtics should have just done the short video when he first came back and said now or never. None of the other stuff would have happened if they did that.

Management really screwed the pooch. I hope Ainge likes hearing about this every interview now lol

Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #117 on: January 17, 2018, 05:10:46 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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No.  The reason for playing the prior game was because it was a home game.   When a player comes back and plays after a long rehab, there is always risk of something happening, in particular bad muscle cramps.   Med staff always prefers them to start back at home.
"Bad muscle cramps" are a problem on the road?! Oh noes!
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Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #118 on: January 17, 2018, 05:46:28 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I guess from Pierce point of view -  this mess could have been avoided if Ainge had the balls to tell IT4 straight up, no ... can't be switched to Pierce night.   

The little guy should have taken the tribute option two weeks ago.  For him to ask for it on PP was a miscalculation. 

IT4 + Celtics = not meant to be , in many ways


Re: IT asks Celtics NOT to play video tribute on 2/11
« Reply #119 on: January 17, 2018, 05:51:36 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Rondo also fired a shot at IT implying that he doesn't deserve the video tribute:


Ouch. But true.
Love how it’s WE.!!

After he quit on the team, skipped games and stopped playing defense he doesn’t have a lot of room to critique others. 

IT loved playing here and gave his heart and soul to this team. That’s what we’d be celebrating. 

If anybody didn’t deserve a tribute video, it’s Rondo, based upon the way that he dogged it on his way out of town.
In terms of Celtics legacies Rondo > IT

Sure. He was drafted here and played more seasons here. He was somewhere between the 4th and 6th best player on a title team, a goal IT never achieved.

That said, if you swap IT and Rondo, the 2008 squad would have still won, while there’s little chance that last year’s team makes the ECF.  Plus, IT never dogged it, unlike what we saw at the end of Rondo’s career. It soured things.
Id say tribute videos are earned through ones legacy as a Celtic and we've just agreed that Rondo has a greater Celtic legacy than Thomas.

Whether IT would have had more or less success with the big 3 seems irrelevant to the discussion.

When you force your way off the team through your poor play, effort and attitude, I don’t think the team owes a guy anything.

Look at what the Cavs did with Kyrie: he forced a trade, and he wasn’t welcomed back.  There’s something to be said for appreciating the guys who valued your franchise.
Did Rondo really force his way off the team? Rondo was being shopped for a couple years before he was finally moved. Ever since the surgery when he came back and wasn't quite the same, he was being shopped.